View Full Version : Final model shots
Finally got through the make up shoot I had a while back. I've learnt a bit about skin tones, sharpening, colours etc. When I started I was happy with the results but looking back they were so red tinted.
http://petemc.net/photos/d/1225-2/makeup-CRW_6739-+2.jpg
#1
http://petemc.net/photos/d/1229-2/makeup-CRW_6742-+4copy.jpg
#2
http://petemc.net/photos/d/1231-2/makeup-CRW_6754-+5.jpg
#3
http://petemc.net/photos/d/1235-2/makeup-CRW_6769-+9.jpg
#4
http://petemc.net/photos/d/1237-2/makeup-CRW_6770-+10.jpg
#5
http://petemc.net/photos/d/1239-2/makeup-CRW_6772-+11.jpg
#6
http://petemc.net/photos/d/1241-2/makeup-CRW_6779-+15.jpg
#7
http://petemc.net/photos/d/1243-2/makeup-CRW_6787-+17.jpg
#8
http://petemc.net/photos/d/1247-2/makeup-CRW_6794-+1.jpg
#9
http://petemc.net/photos/d/1245-2/makeup-CRW_6791-+18.jpg
#10
not sure about these pete, she is obviously very attractive but I'm not keen on the shots, technically they are out of my league, however some of the shots look like automaton has been playing with the levels.
Hope this doesn't offend you, thats not my intention, just my opinion.
Cheers Lee
not sure about these pete, she is obviously very attractive but I'm not keen on the shots, technically they are out of my league, however some of the shots look like automaton has been playing with the levels.
Hope this doesn't offend you, thats not my intention, just my opinion.
Cheers Lee
Could you explain further? I've spent days working on these shots, trying to get the skin tones and eyes right and I feel that I've finally achieved some good results.
well her forehead on a few of the shots looks yellow, and that combined with strong makeup around the eyes and cheeks, makes it look strange to me.
Primarily 1 & 4.
As I said before only my opinion.
well her forehead on a few of the shots looks yellow, and that combined with strong makeup around the eyes and cheeks, makes it look strange to me.
Primarily 1 & 4.
As I said before only my opinion.
Doesn't seem to be yellow to me. I've printed a few off and they look ok. Maybe I'm too close to it though to notice. The strong make up was part of the shoot as it was for a make up artists portfolio.
Maybe more gold as opposed to yellow :thinking:
It may just be me pete, hopefully someone else will comment
Yeah I think I see what you mean. I didn't think it was too bad though. I'm finding this really hard to get right.
its not suprising, considering the make-up artist is using really stong colours on the eyes cheeks and lips. I did wonder if what I'm seeing is actually the just the base colour the artist used.
Marianne
21-09-2006, 23:22
I think its the make up....
Nice set of shots Pete...I really like #9 :)
chuckles
21-09-2006, 23:43
Nice set of shots. Certainly not easy to get this amount of consistency. My prefernce is for No. 9 too...... Mixture of exposures and lighting will upset the white balance, but I think you've done a good job....
I hope you dont mind an inexperienced noob adding some comments too....
There seems to be some very harsh lighting going on which doesnt really compliment the type of shot youre going for & theres definately something wierd going on in number one... on my monitor theres some very dodgy looking white patches/highlights especially on the forehead area.
I know some foundations & powders have light-reflecting particles, if its not down to your processing, maybe the lighting has picked up that.
Im not sure the colours of the eye make-up do anything for the model which obviously isnt down to you but, the eyes are coming across as too heavily made up against a very natural-looking the skin, and for me it kind of doesnt really go together.
For me the best 'model look' is no.5 as the skin looks most even here, Im also with marianne on no. 9
JMO, hope you dont mind.
Marianne
21-09-2006, 23:55
Glo....you don't 'alf give a good critique :clap: ...I feel that the poor model is squinting in most of the shots, almost as if that sparkly makeup is a bit of an irritant to her, the last two, she is looking up and her eyes look beautiful and wide open, you have got excellent eye contact with her. :)
9 is the winner for me, like the PP you have done on these. Model does look a bit odd, strained almost, not your fault just her face type and expression.
...I feel that the poor model is squinting in most of the shots, almost as if that sparkly makeup is a bit of an irritant to her
It was a very sunny day and she only seems to be squinting in the first two. Its possible its my processing screwing things up. Dunno why this shoot has been so tricky. Could be because I wanted to get something really special from it, could be because previous shoots have been bad so I just wanted to get back on track.
9 is the winner for me, like the PP you have done on these. Model does look a bit odd, strained almost, not your fault just her face type and expression.
That is my fault tbh. Photography is more than just taking the pic. I'm too shy to tell a hot girl I just met what to do with her body ;) This is why I do it though, to get better at the things I suck at.
I think the model is using waaay too much make up and I'm sure that's causing some of the variations in the skin tones. That apart, they look spot on to me Pete, and I reckon you've done a good job processing those. :)
On a side note, modern lenses are often so sharp they don't give the most flattering appearance even for a young person like this model. Think about getting a diffusing filter. Unlike a soft focus filter they don't work across the whole image, they just slightly diffuse (blur) the highlights into the shadows. Its very flattering for hair and hides some of the imperfections in skin tones.
I think No9 is the most natural looking shot, partly because it's not quite so sharp and her pose isn't quite so hard faced. She needs some lessons in applying make up I think, but that's not your responsibility. ;)
I think the model is using waaay too much make up and I'm sure that's causing some of the variations in the skin tones. That apart, they look spot on to me Pete, and I reckon you've done a good job processing those. :)
On a side note, modern lenses are often so sharp they don't give the most flattering appearance even for a young person like this model. Think about getting a diffusing filter. Unlike a soft focus filter they don't work across the whole image, they just slightly diffuse (blur) the highlights into the shadows. Its very flattering for hair and hides some of the imperfections in skin tones.
I think No9 is the most natural looking shot, partly because it's not quite so sharp and her pose isn't quite so hard faced. She needs some lessons in applying make up I think, but that's not your responsibility. ;)
I won't tell her mate. It was for a make up artist's portfolio. I guess it was meant to be a bit ott. They're both professional make up artists so I guess someone thinks it works. Its not meant to be natural afaik.
Thanks for the advice guys. Seems I got it mostly right. Just hope they approve as I'm happy with what I've got.
The skin tones still look very red in No7 Pete and there's something strange going on with her ankles and feet which are redder on the front than on the back? The blacks in her clothes are a bit blocked up too. I had a quick go for you but you'll need to do some local work on those ankles to really smooth out the tones.
http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/gallery/data/500/makeup-CRW_6787-_17_2_.jpg
Just trying to help mate - honest. :)
Hi Pete,
Just wanted to say the skin tones look very different on my CRT monitor at work, so it was more me than you. sorry.
On the upnote, it did generate a lot of feed back for you :D
Cheers lee
On my monitor its not so much about the tones as the skin texture. I guess we all have a difference of opinion on how skin should look but for these type of shots, I think personally I'd lean towards a softer skin texture.
Ive been really interested in following this thread as these are the kind of pics that interest me too.
Ive softened the skin a little here as I think it balances the eye make up a little better and from a woman's point of view I think a make-up artist would want to portray a near flawless complexion (gawd! hope you dont mind Pete) :bat:
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f93/Glorsclaws/makeup-CRW_6794-1me.jpg
ShawWellPete
22-09-2006, 11:25
9 and 10 are fantastic, IMO a much more flattering angle. Her eyes look great, sharp and large and a great colour.
On my monitor its not so much about the tones as the skin texture. I guess we all have a difference of opinion on how skin should look but for these type of shots, I think personally I'd lean towards a softer skin texture.
Ive been really interested in following this thread as these are the kind of pics that interest me too.
Ive softened the skin a little here as I think it balances the eye make up a little better and from a woman's point of view I think a make-up artist would want to portray a near flawless complexion (gawd! hope you dont mind Pete) :bat:
I did think of that but I just wasn't sure about it. Its a totally different field to what I normally do so its been tricky stuff. I'm not really sure about softening her skin like everyone else does for fashion mags. I get the point as when I sharpened it I could see her pours or something :) How did you soften the skin? I tried using SDK's guide but that was too ott.
Sean_Mcr
22-09-2006, 12:51
I think the skin tones have been covered, so i'll address the model
I don't actually think that she's much of a model, and i don't mean in looks, though she's no kate moss . I mean in what's she's giving you, she's quite static and gets by on pouting. She not very expressive with her body or her face, which is a problem for a model
I'm just showing these to my partner after i typed the above who thinks she's overdone it with her make-up and it's left her skin greasy looking and patchy.
I think because of the skin tone, they're not working in colour Pete. The the tone's all over the place
I think black and white improves it, but i'm not sure if it's enough. Her skin still looks greasy
http://i.pbase.com/o5/87/571287/1/67304683.ti2TtfT4.untitledsscopy.jpg
But still pete, even with the right tone. I don't think she's given you as much as other models could have
I know this isnt your usual area thats why I commented. Im not trying to be to be critical, heck I wish I had your talent but, I think when it comes to shots of the ladeez, speaking as one, I think we tend to like to see ourselves in a slightly kinder light, especially for glam/fashion type shots, rather than the processing you might use for your 'grittier' shots.
All I did here was layer>Filter>Blur>surface Blur. Radius about 11 and Threshold around 10 (I think).
I then carefully used the Eraser tool to bring some detail in the lip surface (not too much) and then more in the eyes, also just a tad on the eyebrows.
I then lowered the layer opacity until I thought the skin was softened but with some 'reality' left in it. I kept the new layer in 'normal' mode but you can also get some interesting variations in 'screen' mode.
It might be worth softening the skin in one pic and showing the make-up artist a copy of both variations, see which she prefers, as I may be way off the mark with my opinions here.
Can't do black and white. Again, its a "Make up" shoot so it needs to be colour. I'll have a look into softening the skin :)
Hi Pete, hope you don't mind but I had a go at this as well. As InaGlo said the skin needs softening, here I have sharpened the eyes then run an action called Edgarian Blur.
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f273/HackerUK/makeup-CRW_6794--1.jpg
Hi Pete, hope you don't mind but I had a go at this as well. As InaGlo said the skin needs softening, here I have sharpened the eyes then run an action called Edgarian Blur.
Nah I don't like that. Her eyes are way to sharp compared to her skin. Seems very fake.
Ha! It wasn't meant to be a 'final' shot, just to give the idea.
:skulksawaytothecorner: :D
I've been following this thread for a while, not really knowing what to make of it.
In my very limited expirience, I would say that technically the shots look pretty spot on and the problem is the model.
I am no oil painting, but I would have you thought that if you wanted to showcase your makeup skills, you would start with a model with good natural skin.
Its fine trying to "soften" the pictures ect, but there is only so much you can do with out it looking fake...
CT comments about the difference in skin tones on the ankle and feet and I noticed this too...I thought it looked like a bad fake tan rather than anything Pete has done processing wise. In fact on the sitting shot, No 8, I found the feet a bit distracting as they are not exactly attractive...
Sorry if this sounds a bit harsh, but Pete is a very talented photographer and shouldn't doubt his own skills when I would say the problem lies else where..
Regards,
Pete
I do feel that its my job to get the most out the model and if people are criticising her then thats only a reflection back on me. Sure I can take a technically good pic. Sharp, well composed etc but when it comes to things like this my mind goes totally blank. I had ideas for this shoot but when I was there, nothing. Couldn't really think of a thing. The final two shots are where I started to relax and warm up. I guess that shows as they're the best shots from the shoot. This will all come with time and experience I'm sure.
h.r.ford
22-09-2006, 16:23
Ok I've also been watching this thread without commenting. Petemc don't beet yourself up about what you could have done to make the model better. I mean yes the photographer can help but some people just aren't great models. From my vast experience of watching America's next top model, I just think she looks really strained and not relaxed at all. I think you did fantastic with what you had and even with those criticisms they are still good shots.
Renee
Pete,
Out of curiousity how long did the shoot take and how many pictures did you take? Who decides this?
Regards,
Pete (the other one!)
The shoot was about an hour or so and I took about 100-200 images. I said i'd give them about 10-15ish.
Is an hour or so long enough?? Is that whats putting you under pressure?
I've never done anything like this but i think it sounds quite daunting trying to get say a dozen top quality shots in an hour or so...
I supose at the end of the day the acid test will be the customers response to them...Again, I don't think they can critise your work; I think the shots are spot on...
Sean_Mcr
22-09-2006, 18:19
I think if the shots about make-up Pete then it's not good advert because the makeup is not that great. Which is not your fault, you have to work with what you have.
Is she an experienced model and who applied the make-up?
Is an hour or so long enough?? Is that whats putting you under pressure?
I've never done anything like this but i think it sounds quite daunting trying to get say a dozen top quality shots in an hour or so...
I supose at the end of the day the acid test will be the customers response to them...Again, I don't think they can critise your work; I think the shots are spot on...
Nah its not the time its me. I'm very shy so having control over a random girl is rather tough. I just don't really have the confidence to tell her what to do, yet. I also need to look into fashion photography more to get an idea of shots that I would like to build on.
I think if the shots about make-up Pete then it's not good advert because the makeup is not that great. Which is not your fault, you have to work with what you have.
Is she an experienced model and who applied the make-up?
Yeah she said she was and her friend applied it, who is a professional make-up artist.
I like most of the shots.. just not the model.. haha, whats up with her hair man?!
I like most of the shots.. just not the model.. haha, whats up with her hair man?!
Thats the in thing.
Thats the in thing.
Having a lump on your head? Weird.
Sean_Mcr
22-09-2006, 19:51
There's not a thing wrong with her hair, it is a currrent/retro style.
You know she reminds me of Sharon from Eastenders, as she's forever pouting.
"There's not a thing wrong with her hair, it is a currrent/retro style."
I bet you said that about kipper ties too!:D :D
I do feel that its my job to get the most out the model and if people are criticising her then thats only a reflection back on me. Sure I can take a technically good pic. Sharp, well composed etc but when it comes to things like this my mind goes totally blank. I had ideas for this shoot but when I was there, nothing. Couldn't really think of a thing. The final two shots are where I started to relax and warm up. I guess that shows as they're the best shots from the shoot. This will all come with time and experience I'm sure.
Well... it is a reflection on you mate, and it's great that your shoulders are wide enough to accept that, but it's not all down to you. She's clearly an inexperienced model, but the make up job by people professing to be pros is frankly awful. She has the most beautiful blue eyes and really doesn't need all that crap around them at all. I think the hair do is awful, but hey... each to his own. ;)
An experienced model will hit more poses for you than you can keep up with. They may not be original, but you'll get a lot of useable shots. With an inexperienced model and a tog who isn't sure of himself it's a recipe for problems. She will need direction, and be looking to you for it. If she doesn't get it she soon starts to feel awkward and self conscious. If you don't mind me saying so some of the people in your last series of shots looked decidedly self conscious - and why shouldn't they, they're not pros, they're being chucked in the deep end too!
You really need to get over this shyness thing and keep the atmosphere light, friendly and fun. Those embarrassed awkward silences are death to any shoot, it's transmitted back through your lens and it's there in your shots for all to see. ;)
Pete, have to agree with CT on this, i think you need to book a session with a pro model and spend several hours working with her, maybe have a word with Arkady, if he isnt too busy or being deployed, he takes some excellent shots of models, and has a lot of experience of it. He may be able to help you, i obviously cant guarantee that as i cant speak for him, he may be too busy, but if you dont ask you will never know !
Well... it is a reflection on you mate, and it's great that your shoulders are wide enough to accept that, but it's not all down to you. She's clearly an inexperienced model, but the make up job by people professing to be pros is frankly awful. She has the most beautiful blue eyes and really doesn't need all that crap around them at all. I think the hair do is awful, but hey... each to his own. ;)
An experienced model will hit more poses for you than you can keep up with. They may not be original, but you'll get a lot of useable shots. With an inexperienced model and a tog who isn't sure of himself it's a recipe for problems. She will need direction, and be looking to you for it. If she doesn't get it she soon starts to feel awkward and self conscious. If you don't mind me saying so some of the people in your last series of shots looked decidedly self conscious - and why shouldn't they, they're not pros, they're being chucked in the deep end too!
You really need to get over this shyness thing and keep the atmosphere light, friendly and fun. Those embarrassed awkward silences are death to any shoot, it's transmitted back through your lens and it's there in your shots for all to see. ;)
I completely agree with everything you said. I spent 12hrs yesterday with a top professional photographer and the one thing I learnt was that the key to a good shoot is making them feel relaxed. Good communication, good music. We spent the day trying to get good shots and it just wasn't working. We turned up the music and bam, everyone was more relaxed and happier. The shots started working then.
Unfortunately for me I went to an all boys school and spent years playing with computers. Then I did a computing degree, then I did web design so I've spent the past 18 years or so hidden in computers and as a result I'm really shy. Photography is my way out and I choose to do these shoots because I know it'll push me and bring me out of my shell. Thing is, on this shoot I just couldn't think clearly and I hated that. But after spending time with this pro yesterday I can see the value in taking time out to relax. I'm going to have a studio shoot coming up in the next few weeks for a client who I've worked with before so hopefully things will be good.
I completely agree with everything you said. I spent 12hrs yesterday with a top professional photographer and the one thing I learnt was that the key to a good shoot is making them feel relaxed. Good communication, good music. We spent the day trying to get good shots and it just wasn't working. We turned up the music and bam, everyone was more relaxed and happier. The shots started working then.
Unfortunately for me I went to an all boys school and spent years playing with computers. Then I did a computing degree, then I did web design so I've spent the past 18 years or so hidden in computers and as a result I'm really shy. Photography is my way out and I choose to do these shoots because I know it'll push me and bring me out of my shell. Thing is, on this shoot I just couldn't think clearly and I hated that. But after spending time with this pro yesterday I can see the value in taking time out to relax. I'm going to have a studio shoot coming up in the next few weeks for a client who I've worked with before so hopefully things will be good.
LOL That's great. Music is a great background. Relax... chat 'em up - you might even score! :naughty:
:lol:
LOL That's great. Music is a great background. Relax... chat 'em up - you might even score! :naughty:
:lol:
Hahahaha. No pressure eh. Just gotta relax, get the shots and get her into bed. Daddy cool.
I agree that an hour isn't long enough for you both to get comfortable with one another.
If I ever do glam shots with amateurs, I always cover myself by saying they're only 'test' shots and that we'll both go over them and re'shoot the poses we like best later on. That way the model feels less pressured and you also feel more relaxed about the shoot.
I'd schedule a minimum of three hours for this kind of job.
As far as I can tell, there's nothing at all wrong with your RAW images, you just need to work on the poses and post-production a little.
If these are for the make-up artist, forget the full-length shots and concentrate on the eyes and mouth - that way you avoid the cobby-looking feet spoiling the pix - hardly any models have nice feet - that's why we employ specialist foot/hand/leg models for specialist work (who may look like the back end of a bus, but have nice feet/hands/legs etc...).
I think the approach by inaglow is along the right lines - you're projecting a look of seamless/flawless perfection and smoother skin texture is key to doing that. Play around with layers and different layer styles using gaussian blur at various opacities and see how you go.
I'm on a work computer without PS2 on it at the mo or I'd walk you through it step-by-step (it's saved as an action and I can't quite remember the sequence without running through it myself). I'll be back from Okehampton Training Camp next weekend and if you're still struggling, I'll have a chat with you in more depth. It'd be easier to sit next to you and do this over a cuppa - but Liverpool's a bit of a schlep, even for me.
PS: never, EVER sh*g your models - it's not worth it in the long run and you'll get a rep as a perv and not a serious phot. You'd be amazed at how efficient the pro-am model grapevine is.
I agree that an hour isn't long enough for you both to get comfortable with one another.
If I ever do glam shots with amateurs, I always cover myself by saying they're only 'test' shots and that we'll both go over them and re'shoot the poses we like best later on. That way the model feels less pressured and you also feel more relaxed about the shoot.
I'd schedule a minimum of three hours for this kind of job.
Yeah I completely agree. I saw this in action the other day when I did some assisting. 12hr day. We got there at 9am, band turned up around 11. Chatted had lunch, started shooting about 1/2ish. Didn't get good results till about 6pm. The thing is, you can't charge for that can you? "Yeah this job will be 3hrs long. One of which is sitting in Starbucks." I guess you just say we'll go for a drink first to chat about the shoot?
As far as I can tell, there's nothing at all wrong with your RAW images, you just need to work on the poses and post-production a little.
If these are for the make-up artist, forget the full-length shots and concentrate on the eyes and mouth - that way you avoid the cobby-looking feet spoiling the pix - hardly any models have nice feet - that's why we employ specialist foot/hand/leg models for specialist work (who may look like the back end of a bus, but have nice feet/hands/legs etc...).
Yeah definitely. The final few shots are my favourite. Close up, great eyes. Really love them.
I think the approach by inaglow is along the right lines - you're projecting a look of seamless/flawless perfection and smoother skin texture is key to doing that. Play around with layers and different layer styles using gaussian blur at various opacities and see how you go.
Cool ok I'll give that a go.
I'm on a work computer without PS2 on it at the mo or I'd walk you through it step-by-step (it's saved as an action and I can't quite remember the sequence without running through it myself). I'll be back from Okehampton Training Camp next weekend and if you're still struggling, I'll have a chat with you in more depth. It'd be easier to sit next to you and do this over a cuppa - but Liverpool's a bit of a schlep, even for me.
Yeah no worries. I'm sure I'll hit the right button in PS ;) *looks for insta-fashion-modelling-skin-tones action* :D
PS: never, EVER sh*g your models - it's not worth it in the long run and you'll get a rep as a perv and not a serious phot. You'd be amazed at how efficient the pro-am model grapevine is.
Hehe yeah don't worry. I definitely don't want to be taken that way. If I ever do anything more "glamourous" it would always be about the image not trying to score.
pandabighead
29-09-2006, 10:30
don't think theres to much wrong with the shots but she does kind look like she has used homers make up gun set on harlot!
Ok some updates.
http://petemc.net/photos/d/1385-2/makeup-CRW_6794-+1-2.jpg
http://petemc.net/photos/d/1387-2/makeup-CRW_6739-+2-3.jpg
http://petemc.net/photos/d/1389-2/makeup-CRW_6769-+9-2.jpg
http://petemc.net/photos/d/1391-3/makeup-CRW_6770-+10-2.jpg
http://petemc.net/photos/d/1393-2/makeup-CRW_6787-+17-2.jpg
http://petemc.net/photos/d/1395-2/makeup-CRW_6791-+18-2.jpg
A little less yellow and some dust and scratches filtering applied to them to soften the skin. Its very tricky to get right as it often just looks like her face is out of focus. Infact I don't like the skin in the first one. Its just odd.
not too bad Pete, the reworks are pretty good. Dont think the model is really model quality though im afraid!
I think you should be happy with those Pete and so should your client be. No5 is the weakest link and really ought to go unless you can sort out those unattractive feet and ankles. The whole pose just looks a bit strained though?
All good except the last two - don't like the veiny-ankles/feet in the full-length shot, or the leg sticking up in the final shot.
The processing looks really good though. Spotty-Dog.
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