View Full Version : d200 significantly better than d40?
fontmoss
07-03-2009, 12:22
the plan was to get a d300 but i think now for financial reasons i might end up with a d200. Is the high ISO performance much better than the d40? i know the d300 is a stop better than the d200 and has a much better battery life but i dont know how the d200 stacks up against the d40.
cowasaki
07-03-2009, 12:38
There is no contest. My wife has the model above the D40 the D40x. The D40,40x and 60 do not have the motor to AF on lots of different lenses. They are much smaller, less focus points and made of plastic (plus lots of other things too). Lots of functions that you use regularly are hidden away in the menu system rather than available via special buttons. They are very good camera BUT the D200 is far more flexible.
fontmoss
07-03-2009, 12:40
yeah the access to functions is why id go for the d200 over d90 and im using manual lenses so negates the better auto focus (most of the time)
really i want to know if ill notice a difference at high ISO between the d40 and d200?
ISO performance on D200 I dont think is much better than a D40. They are from a similar generation in Nikon's product history.
puddleduck
07-03-2009, 12:49
The D40 is better at high ISO than the D200.
This is how I'd rate things:
D3 / D700 - 2 stops better than the D200 / D80
D300 - 2/3rd to 1 stop better than the D200 / D80
D40 / D50 - 2/3rd of a stop better than the D200 / D40x / D60
D2X - 1/2 to 2/3rd of a stop worse than the D200, nearly 3 stops worse than the D3 / D700
You need to quantify what you mean by high ISO performance, no camera exists with clean ISO1600.
The D3 and D700 do have noise at ISO1600.
The D300 has more noise, and less detail. The D200 has more noise, and less detail. The D40 some noise, but good detail. The D200 has a chunkier unpleasant noise charactersist, the D300 is more fine grained, and less "clumpy", it has noise, but its more pleasant.
The real issue I think is how much detail is retained. The D3 and D700 retain much more detail than the others.
Ignore any "pie in the sky" claims about high ISO - regardless of camera. ALL cameras to date have noise at ISO1600, and you can start to see it from ISO800 even from the D700, I can see if from ISO320 from a D300. There is no noise free camera. The issue I think you should look at is detail retained, not noise (low noise is often at the expense of detail), and also the quality of the noise that remains.
fontmoss
07-03-2009, 13:02
The D40 is better at high ISO than the D200.
this probably tells me all i need to know. i know im being too vague but what i mean which is going to allow me to end up with better images when using ISO 800 and 1600 but your comments above have kid of clarified that.
it comes down to whether its worth me spending £750 on a d300 or £400/450 on a d200 over using my d40. there are lots of features the d200 has over the d40 but it's whether the d300 is worth the price hike.
im not sure ive made that any clearer??
What are you after from the upgrade other than better high ISO performance?
Andysnap
07-03-2009, 13:10
Can I ask why you have discounted the D90? As far as I can tell the only thing that is radically better on a D300 compared to a D90 is the actual body i.e weatherproofing. Do you really need it? The D90 noise reduction at higher iso (and retained detail) is, I think, superior to the D300. And the ease of use of the D90 is fantastic.
Andy
fontmoss
07-03-2009, 13:11
good question.
ultimately im after more control than i can get with the d40, purely for high ISO id probably get a d90 but the d200/300 body feels much better (to me) in the hand and offers a lot more flexibility. they'll also meter my old manual lenses which is a bonus. so it'd be a d200 or a d300 and im wondering if the d200 offers a significant upgrade from the d40 and beyond that whether the d300 is worth another 300 (not only for high ISO necessarily but overall for IQ, colour etc)
You did state in your other thread (D90 or D300) that you wanted better ISO performance (D300/D90>). In all honesty I don't think you'll get that with a D200 over what you already have.
FWIW if you want that kind of body you may as well get a D300....as sure as anything when you've got over the initial new body excitement with a D200 you'll be wondering "what if".
fontmoss
07-03-2009, 13:39
yeah im probably confusing folk more than enlightening them to what i want. i guess most of it boils down to money, money no object then its a d300. im a bit nervous of throwing £700 at non warrantied 2nd hand electronic goods! plus given that most folk have prob bought their cameras before the price hikes then it seems, well a bit unfair really. but such is life
Flash In The Pan
07-03-2009, 13:44
Fuji S5 Pro - £460 or so new, will work with all your old lenses and as long as you're not planning to shoot motorsports or something like that it'll be far more useable than an old D200 or a half a D300 :lol:
or a half a D300 :lol:
Surely more like 3/4 of a D300? :p
fontmoss
07-03-2009, 19:18
ta.
if you had to choose between a d200 for 400 quid or a d300 for 750 what would you buy?
puddleduck
07-03-2009, 19:28
I'd go for the D200.
But if high ISO is your main motivation, the D200 will disappoint I think. That was never a strength, even in 2005.
Low ISO its better than the D300 (ISO100, 200). You might find much over ISO640 on a D200 problematic, it'll look like your D40 at around ISO1000 / 1250.
I'd go for the D200.
But if high ISO is your main motivation, the D200 will disappoint I think. That was never a strength, even in 2005.
Low ISO its better than the D300 (ISO100, 200). You might find much over ISO640 on a D200 problematic, it'll look like your D40 at around ISO1000 / 1250.
I don't take my D200 over ISO400, unles it's absolutely necessary. High ISO's are not the D200's strong point!!
fontmoss
07-03-2009, 19:44
I don't take my D200 over ISO400, unles it's absolutely necessary. High ISO's are not the D200's strong point!!
really? thats not good surely?
Dangermouse1964
07-03-2009, 19:47
I have a D200 and rarely need to go above 400 iso as I shoot light aircraft and its superb for this
really? thats not good surely?
Read the reviews....they will say the same thing. :)
alexkidd
07-03-2009, 20:16
as far as i recall the low noise on the s5 was pretty impressive comparatively to the d200 that might be a choice instead?
really should get my hands on one tbh :)
really? thats not good surely?
Nope, it's not good, but then it isn't supposed to be good - it's 2005 technology.
In 10 years time, when "Auto ISO" will mean each pixel can set it's ISO independently of the others, we'll all be saying "Fixed ISO, that's not good, surely?" :lol::lol:
as far as i recall the low noise on the s5 was pretty impressive comparatively to the d200 that might be a choice instead?
really should get my hands on one tbh :)
I understand the same thing - S5Pro would seem to be the way to go providing speed is not required...
Flash In The Pan
07-03-2009, 20:44
Surely more like 3/4 of a D300? :p
:thinking:
D300 new: £1000+
S5 Pro new: £460
so, no....not 3/4 :lol:
If you mean a used D300, then still not 3/4 of the price,unless there are "several" (:lol:) available around the £600 mark ;)
fontmoss
07-03-2009, 23:00
ok looks like the s5 pro is the best compromise and as i take pics of people it should suit me for colour and high ISO use. remains to be seen if the slow speeds will get annoying but for £500 and 2 year warranty then seems like a winner.
Flash In The Pan
07-03-2009, 23:03
ok looks like the s5 pro is the best compromise and as i take pics of people it should suit me for colour and high ISO use. remains to be seen if the slow speeds will get annoying but for £500 and 2 year warranty then seems like a winner.
one year warranty.....
fontmoss
07-03-2009, 23:07
2 year warranty
fontmoss
07-03-2009, 23:16
just hope its got the same proper snap when you press the shutter as the d300 i tried today had :D
Flash In The Pan
07-03-2009, 23:20
I think you'll find it's one
<------------;)
fontmoss
07-03-2009, 23:31
both places im looking online state 2, i know the second is with them but 2 is 2!
Flash In The Pan
07-03-2009, 23:39
both places im looking online state 2, i know the second is with them but 2 is 2!
:bonk:
Like I said before - female :razz:
You need to quantify what you mean by high ISO performance, no camera exists with clean ISO1600.
Until black silicon is fully developed for DSLR's lol That's something I'm definitely looking forward to! :)
puddleduck
08-03-2009, 06:01
ok looks like the s5 pro is the best compromise and as i take pics of people it should suit me for colour and high ISO use. remains to be seen if the slow speeds will get annoying but for £500 and 2 year warranty then seems like a winner.
One Year - at least if its a Fujifilm warranty.
For some reason I've never had anything that looks like warranty paperwork with my S5 Pro's (all bought from WHE / Jessops) they go purely by reciept for Service.
As you won't get any warranty paperwork, 2 years sounds like it could be a Grey Import. I'm not sure what the Fuji stance in on doing repaairs (if needed) on Grey.
:thinking:
D300 new: £1000+
S5 Pro new: £460
so, no....not 3/4 :lol:
If you mean a used D300, then still not 3/4 of the price,unless there are "several" (:lol:) available around the £600 mark ;)
:nuts:
Sorry, I thought you were referring to a D90. :bonk:
fontmoss
08-03-2009, 09:31
camerabox do a 2 year warranty on their stuff, i know fuji only do 1 but if camerabox/mack cover the second then theres still 2 years warranty surely
fontmoss
08-03-2009, 11:42
i decided to go for a s5 pro, best compromise between cost and performance im after cheers to everyone for their help.
flash im not convinced my gender has anything to do with me not being able to read numbers properly ;)
Flash In The Pan
08-03-2009, 12:20
camerabox do a 2 year warranty on their stuff, i know fuji only do 1 but if camerabox/mack cover the second then theres still 2 years warranty surely
Camerabox sell gray imports, so the whole warranty is with them, not 1 year Fuji/1 year Mack
Edit: I know it says "UK stock", but that doesn't necessarily mean Fuji UK stock :lol:
£499 isn't all that cheap for an S5 anyway ;)
fontmoss
08-03-2009, 12:25
their site says otherwise but whatever
Flash In The Pan
08-03-2009, 12:26
their site says otherwise but whatever
I've bought from them before, the lens had a Nikon USA warranty....
fontmoss
08-03-2009, 12:43
ok ok you're right, im wrong
i dont care now, ive got a new camera on the way !!
Flash In The Pan
08-03-2009, 12:49
:thumbs: You'll love it :)
ta.
if you had to choose between a d200 for 400 quid or a d300 for 750 what would you buy?
I'm sorry, where did you see a D300 for £750? enquiring minds want to know! :)
dave
fontmoss
08-03-2009, 17:51
2nd hand, put up a wanted add here.
2nd hand, put up a wanted add here.
hmm.. that leaves me in a quandry.. I'd like a D300 and I'm happy to have a second hand one if it's in good nick. but I'm also a relatively new member here so I can't post my own wanted ad, and I can't seem to respond to yours...
erk
Garry Edwards
08-03-2009, 18:27
Fuji S5 Pro - £460 or so new, will work with all your old lenses and as long as you're not planning to shoot motorsports or something like that it'll be far more useable than an old D200 or a half a D300 :lol:
Except that it's now discontinued (unofficially). As of Friday, the last 60 ever were sitting in a customs shed and all stock has been allocated to retailers.
one of those has my name on it, I believe that Jessops have been allocated some, I know where 5 (including mine) are going, don't know about the rest.
So, if you want one you MAY be lucky - but you'll need to move fast.
fontmoss
08-03-2009, 22:10
ive got one, last one in camerabox ;)
fontmoss
08-03-2009, 22:16
fyonn try taz or flash above ;)
I love and hate reading these threads.
I have been looking to upgrade my D70 for some time. I have been leaning towards the D90 because of the increased High Iso (reported) performance. And also this last few days have been looking at D200s on ebay (they seem to be selling for between 350 and 425 at the moment) /EDIT hit 2 instead of 3 on the firest price lol
Bur now I am thinkin maybe a fuji s5pro.
I have just had a second wedding booking so new a secodn body (last one I borrowed a minolta dyanx 7d for backup from work- perhaps a better camera than my d70, but I know the D70 better) and have also been thinking about simply replaceing that at work, and me havingthe minolta myself (I am the only one that uses it and to be honest it isnt really the right camera for the job at hand)
decisions descisions
puddleduck
09-03-2009, 06:21
fyonn try taz or flash above ;)
Or my camera club, less than £600 :)
Although thats a one off really :)
Or my camera club, less than £600 :)
Although thats a one off really :)
err.. does this mean there is one available, or not?
and did you edit this post, because the email I got telling me about a new post had different contents! :)
dave
The S5 is still listed on Mifsuds's site so if anyone's still after one, it might be worth a call to them. 01803 852400. Price on their site is cheaper than the price they're selling a 2nd hand D200 body at.
Flash In The Pan
09-03-2009, 22:30
Or my camera club, less than £600 :)
Although thats a one off really :)
:lol:
Don't forget all the "ex-demo" £300 ones on Amazon :thumbs:
puddleduck
10-03-2009, 02:04
:lol:
Don't forget all the "ex-demo" £300 ones on Amazon :thumbs:
Personally I wouldn't trust anything on Amazon Marketplace at that price.
Best legit price I've seen is Clear-R-Gear for refurbs. I think you might have started a thread on that?
Flash In The Pan
10-03-2009, 03:48
Personally I wouldn't trust anything on Amazon Marketplace at that price.
:wave:
Best legit price I've seen is Clear-R-Gear for refurbs. I think you might have started a thread on that?
Yup, I did, wish I'd been able to buy one at the price they had them originally, but FF snaffled them all up. :bang:
Fuji s5 Pro, just ordered from mifsuds (thanks for the link)
will let you know when it arrives
For anybody that is interested, my S5 came today, and first impression :-- wow the feel of it puts my d70 to shame, it just feels that much better made, and the buttons layout :)
one thing that surprised me and stumped me for a moment (have RTFMed yet) there is no s/A/m/p wheel
instead there is a mode button you press and it displays on the screen what mode you are in
cant wait to get out there and try it :)
one thing that surprised me and stumped me for a moment (have RTFMed yet) there is no s/A/m/p wheel
instead there is a mode button you press and it displays on the screen what mode you are in
so, just like the D200 it's based on then? :)
yes, but that wouldnt mean anythign to somebody who hasnt used a d200, would it?
V8burble
12-03-2009, 17:26
TBH the Mode button approach is so much easier to handle without taking your eye from the eyepiece even :thumbs: Just hold down the mode button with your shutter release finger and turn the rear wheel with your thumb... tis great. The M,A,P,S appears in the viewfinder aswell as the top LCD
SimonTALM
12-03-2009, 17:53
one thing that surprised me and stumped me for a moment (have RTFMed yet) there is no s/A/m/p wheel
Welcome to the world of Pro cameras :)
lol simon yeah, thanks for that, there is a world of differnence between it an my d70(relegated to backup camera) B8Burble, do agrea with you, just stumped me when I couldn't find it lol
embarressing question (havent had time to plough through the manual, or play with the camera for more than a few minutes) can you get it to automatically display the last pic taken on the display (was auto on with my d70 and d50 before that) or is that another pro feature I have to get used to (yeah I know you can press the button to playback the image)
and what CF cards do you recommend, my extreme 3 is woefully slow writing in the s5
puddleduck
13-03-2009, 09:05
The S5 Pro produces 25 megabyte raw (RAF) files,so you can't really speed things up by changing the CF. If you shoot JPEF + RAF as I do, you are producing 28 megs of data per shot!
Image review is a bit slow and weird generally. IMHO don't worry about chimping as the S5 Pro always produces great files with no effort,so you don't need to keep checking up on it via the LCD :)
yeah again your probably right, no need to keep checking. I shoudl trust my ability.
(im sure it will say this in the manual - I am away from home till tonight so do intend to have a good read when i get home) how many RAW shots will the S5 buffer before I need to wait for them to write.
Does seem to take a long time to write, which coudl be a problem at times.
Is this just a case, of having to change my mentality to adapt to a pro camera.
Does seem to take a long time to write, which coudl be a problem at times.
Is this just a case, of having to change my mentality to adapt to a pro camera.
As far as I am aware, the Fuji is slower at processing than the Nikon equivalent bodies (remember it's based on the D200 body but with Fuji software/firmware), also as PD says the size of the files are huuuge.
SimonTALM
13-03-2009, 12:31
To display the last pic taken the setting you want i:s Setup --> Display --> Image Display --> Continuous / 4sec / 2sec / off. But as PD says it is slow to come as the buffer has to be cleared first and of course eats away at the battery, I don't have it on mine (It's easy enough to push the display button to see the last image taken when you want to chimp anyway).
As for the speed , the S5 Pro is a slow beast and I believe that the Extreme III's you have will give you the best performance possible on the camera (the Extreme IVs may give a really tiny fraction more speed but I doubt you'd notice it and IMO not worth spending the extra on). Shooting RAW only with full D-Range control on mine is reporting 8 frames to fill the the buffer, although just having tested it I'm getting between 8 and 9 frames before it has to clear the buffer on my fastest Extreme III (the 30MB/s version).
The only time this would be a problem is if you are trying to use the S5 for things it was never designed to do (like sport or papping). Landscapes and Weddings is where this camera really shines and in both of these you won't want to be machine gunning away :D
thanks simon.
Last wedding I did, I put the d70 on burst, taking about 3 or 4 shots a pop (to make sure I minimised on blinkies, and to be honest it paid off, I was able to rescue more than one shot where some %$^%^& guest didnt want to look at the birdie)
I guess I need to time it myself so I know how long I have to compose next stop.
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