View Full Version : Fit For Purpose question
My MKIII has packed in and its the 4th different problem rendering it useless in 8mths since bought new.. blue spot latest model.
Its cost me over 70 quid sending it back to canon and with a match a day I really need a camera I can depend on or at least have confidence in.
Sat here now wiht a camera that just shows err99 even when you turn it off...
So fit for purpose.. Do I contact the shop I bought it from (proper shop not web) or canon themselves? Anyone know of anyone who has been through this with camera gear?
ta:)
Canon Bob
21-03-2009, 21:03
Tony,
Your contract is with the vendor but it may work better if you contact your CPS rep in the first instance.
The "Fit for use legislation" puts the onus on you after 6 months has passed. In short, for the first 6 months, it's up to the vendor to prove that it is fit for use. After 6 months, it's up to you to prove that it isn't.
Bob
Defiance
21-03-2009, 21:06
You have to contact the store and not Canon as your contract of sale is with the store.
You may then claim that the goods are not of merchantable quality against the Sale of Goods Act 1979. This is a relatively vague Act and merchantable quality does not have an absolute definition. However for a professional camera to stop working on a professional photographer in 8 months is good grounds to claim non-merchantable quality. The store may contest this on the grounds of the use you've had, and if they are willing to settle may ask for a contribution on the basis of the use had (particularly if high shutter count). Again none of this is well covered in the Act.
If you bought it using a credit card, you may also claim against the credit card company under the Consumer Credit Act as they too are responsible for proving goods of merchantable quality. I suggest you also involve them in your claim.
None of this will be easy, but armed with the right knowledge of the law you stand a chance of a refund or replacement. If in doubt, consult a solicitor or the CAB.
Defiance
21-03-2009, 21:13
Read section 14 of the Sale of Goods Act:
http://www.johnantell.co.uk/SOGA1979.htm
There is no 6 month limit in the Sale of Goods Act.
PlaneMike
21-03-2009, 21:17
FWIW, my 1dIII went back to the retailer for a refund.
Mike
I think it should be easy to prove.. I ahve proof of the last three times it went back to canon and the fact its dead now would be proof of not fot for use..
It does get a hamering of use.. Looking at my website I have covered 19 events in the first 21 days of march.. 2 games today and would have been 2 tommorow but ice hockey is doubtful with the mk2 :( But its meant to be used as a profesional camera not a part time profesional camera :)
I have sent an email to the CPS
I am going to fax the shop as there not good with emails.
BIG QUESTION .. should I send it back to canon to be repaired while I am sorting this out or keep hold of it? even if i get it fixed I ahve lost all confidence in it .. thats the 100% truth of it
Flash In The Pan
21-03-2009, 21:30
The SoG legislation actually allows you to lodge a claim well after any warranty period has passed. Goods must last for what could be considered "reasonable life expectancy", so even after 2 or 3 years you would still technically have a claim, although pursuing it might be more hassle than it was worth on a low value item (obviously not applicable in this case).
Rejecting an item as "not fit for purpose" or "not of merchantable quality" can be tricky if you've let them attempt to repair it more than a couple of times, however I'd be tempted to pay a visit to a CAB and get proper advice from them before tackling the retailer and I'd also be inclined to apprise your cc/finance company if there was one involved in the purchase as they are jointly liable with the supplier.
FWIW, my 1dIII went back to the retailer for a refund.
Mike
Can you expand on that per chance ?
Got mine from a shop in middlesborough
PS I paid by bank transfer RBS to RBS
Flash In The Pan
21-03-2009, 21:32
BIG QUESTION .. should I send it back to canon to be repaired while I am sorting this out or keep hold of it? even if i get it fixed I ahve lost all confidence in it .. thats the 100% truth of it
Under no circumstances allow them to attempt to repair it again if you intend to pursue a "not fit for purpose" claim...
Under no circumstances allow them to attempt to repair it again if you intend to pursue a "not fit for purpose" claim...
OK ta for that :)
Bill Roberts
21-03-2009, 21:33
The trouble is that even though you're right it could take quite some time to sort out. And during that time you're effectively without a working camera. If you've got enough money to go and buy another (or just to change systems) then it's not a problem, if not then it might be wise to consider other options...
Also do consider if the "latest" fix for AF and error 99 (you log them as separate faults) would actually solve the problem. They fixed mine (AF not err 99) and it did make a noticeable difference. Unfortunately I've sent it back with the 35L because every other lens was absolutely spot on except for that one. But Canon really do seem to be falling over themselves to be helpful at the moment and they're going to redo the Af fix and check the lens over (at least two years out of warranty) as "goodwill".
So... given that info, could you get a loaner from CPS whilst yours in being looked at?
I doubt that it would weaken any case you already have, but it would probably be quicker if the fix(es) do work for you.
cheers
Bill
Canon Bob
21-03-2009, 21:35
Read section 14 of the Sale of Goods Act:
http://www.johnantell.co.uk/SOGA1979.htm
There is no 6 month limit in the Sale of Goods Act.
The CAB website quotes a 6 month time frame between the onus being on the vendor to swapping over to the purchaser.
If you take the goods back within six months of buying them, the trader must accept that they were faulty at the time of sale and offer to repair or replace them. If the trader doesn't accept that the goods were faulty, they will have to prove this.
If you have had your goods for more than six months when they go wrong, you can still ask the trader to repair or replace them, but you may have to prove that they were faulty when you bought them if the trader doesn't agree. You can ask for a repair or replacement at any time up to six years after you bought the goods (five years in Scotland), as long as it is reasonable for them to have lasted this long. If the goods go wrong after six years (or five in Scotland), you no longer have the right to ask for a repair or replacement.
The above is from http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/your_world/consumer_affairs/buying_goods_your_rights.htm#your_legal_rights_whe n_you_buy_goods
Bob
I have asked CPS about a loaner but I seem to recall them saying they dont give loans like that.. need to get an answer from them.,. prob monday :(
I updated the firmaware on the day it was released which is why i was suprised.. the main update was the error messages...
my error isnt on the back screen.. its on the top screen.. i cant access menus or anything.. its just there all the time unless i take the battery out...
Defiance
21-03-2009, 21:40
The CAB website quotes a 6 month time frame between the onus being on the vendor to swapping over to the purchaser.
If you take the goods back within six months of buying them, the trader must accept that they were faulty at the time of sale and offer to repair or replace them. If the trader doesn't accept that the goods were faulty, they will have to prove this.
If you have had your goods for more than six months when they go wrong, you can still ask the trader to repair or replace them, but you may have to prove that they were faulty when you bought them if the trader doesn't agree. You can ask for a repair or replacement at any time up to six years after you bought the goods (five years in Scotland), as long as it is reasonable for them to have lasted this long. If the goods go wrong after six years (or five in Scotland), you no longer have the right to ask for a repair or replacement.
The above is from http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/your_world/consumer_affairs/buying_goods_your_rights.htm#your_legal_rights_whe n_you_buy_goods
Bob
The CAB give good advice and this may be a general approach from their experience, however, their advice does not over-ride the law and the Act which do not explicitly say 6 months or in fact offer any time period. Also, goods do not have to be faulty from new to make a claim. Part of the Act, for example, relates to durability which has nothing to do with being faulty at the point of purchase.
An alternative to the CAB: http://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/
My local CAB doesn't seem too well-informed and there's likely to be a queue of peeps with debt problems. Consumer Direct work with Trading Standards and the CAB and can provide advice by phone or email.
My local CAB has a 3 and a half week waiting list for apointments :( Am gonna pin my hopes on the CPS helping me out... I am desperate... I have some jobs this week that really do need the mkIII .. arrrgh
PlaneMike
21-03-2009, 22:34
FWIW, my 1dIII went back to the retailer for a refund.
Mike
Can you expand on that per chance ?
After researching and letting the dust settle on the early AF issues, it seemed that Canon had got the 1DIII sorted so I decided to buy.
From day one I was unhappy with focus but decided it must be me and persevered.
The latest recall from Canon explained a lot but this is the 3rd time and I just lost confidence that this will be the final fix.
What to do ? - since I was only recently invested in the 1DIII (only a matter of weeks), I returned it for a refund - gutted !
Mike
An alternative to the CAB: http://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/
.
Cheers photon I have filled out there online form asking for advice
sportysnaps
21-03-2009, 23:14
if you search on google you will find lots and lots of problems with the 1dmk3
canon created a dog and they know it....
some people have got got reliable good models - many - including yourself have not, my advice is get the current problem fixed then sell the damm thing and get another 1d mk2n or Nikon d3...
as this will speed up the the process of getting from where you are now to the position of having a reliable camera that works - today tomorrow the next day ....(so you can get on with what you do best)
the big questions is; is it worth the stress - canon do not want to admit that they created a dog so will fight. The best you will get is a replacement 1dmk3 - they are not going to admit that all of them are dogs - as they are not (all dogs) but some are so they will just replace the one you have as being faulty - will you ever trust it or will you always be waiting for it to go wrong....
it's not a bad time to sell second-hand kit - but maybe not here...
I ahve to admit using the mkII today once i got used to it.. every pic was what i thought it would be.. just seems more reliable.. BUT and the big but is that I do a lot of night work... a game a night nearly.. I need the high iso for the better pics.. A d3 would be the answer but that means swapping lenses.. i cant afford the big swap.. the time or the money it would cost..
I seem to be stuck.. i cant do without a high iso camera but going for a replacement could leave me stranded for a while..
its all a bit depressing to be honest... been really fed up today :(
nothing back from CPS after my two emails over the weekend.
contacted the shop i bought from and they say get in touch with canon.. they cant replace it unless canon agree so i need to contact them.. they where amazed that i have had so many problems and said canon should help.. they said if they dont then mention nikon cus they dont like that..
sigh..
however he did say that error is usually self fixable.... he reccomends taking the internal battery out.. so the wifes going uptown later and she will buy my a tiny ikle screwdriver.. like a jewlers as i ahvent got owt that small.. will take the batery out and see if it resets as my next step
Andysnap
23-03-2009, 11:22
Just a thought but would taking the battery and generally messing around with screwdrivers not invalidate any warranty you have. I personally would leave it or at least ask the shop you bought it from to remove it.
Andy
Just a thought but would taking the battery and generally messing around with screwdrivers not invalidate any warranty you have. I personally would leave it or at least ask the shop you bought it from to remove it.
Andy
the shop did say to remove it.. the manual gives you instructions how to remove it and with no warnign re warranty... so should be OK .. however your right to think it.. the thought did cross my mind as well :)
Exactly what I thought.. getting the run around with no one taking responibility and no help
Still nothing from CPS :(
Shop says they cant do anything have to contact canon.
Canon are a joke who say oh err99 you need to register on the website and someone will be in touch wihtin 7 days... I tell her the camera is dead.. they say no replacemnt go back to the retailer.. I say CPS member.. she says will endevour to do it in 3 days if i send back
I reiterate sending it back just means you fix and i ahve a camera i ahve no confidence in :(
she says this is the final fix.. it fixes all problems.. i ask how this fix would have fixed the lens holding catch that wasnt working... oh yeagh she says.
absoloute joke :(
so back to retailer who takes my number and says he will get in touch with the canon sales rep and see what he says.
so ... what have i spent with canon recently.. 10k + and here i am with a serious problem and no one willing to even try and help me :(
PS internal battery removed and replaced.. no difference..
ooer shop got back to me.. canon rep says no way should it be going wrong so many times... canon rep says will take serial number.. confirm it has been repaired 3 times and get back to shop..
when he does (i have a copy of all three work orders in front of me so no danger) then i have to send this to shop and he will then order a new camera (none in stock arrgh)
so its not confirmed yet but looks like i will get a new camera... 8mths of real heavy use with this one so i should be happy wiht a new one... but my confidence is shot to bits.. will it work all the time?
also how long is this going to take.. so i fired another email off to cps to ask for a loan camera until sorted... as i ahvent had any responses off them yet.. i wont hold my breath :(
anyone know the nearest nikon outlet :(
it's alive
23-03-2009, 14:21
anyone know the nearest nikon outlet :(
Dare I say Jessops? :lol:
Good to read that there seems to be positive progress. :thumbs:
Dare I say Jessops? :lol:
Good to read that there seems to be positive progress. :thumbs:
as said, good to see your getting somewhere, its just a pitty its taking so much effort after spending so much to get something from them
I have asked CPS about a loaner but I seem to recall them saying they dont give loans like that.. need to get an answer from them.,. prob monday :(
I updated the firmaware on the day it was released which is why i was suprised.. the main update was the error messages...
my error isnt on the back screen.. its on the top screen.. i cant access menus or anything.. its just there all the time unless i take the battery out...
Loan gear is only provided in the event that a repair takes longer than three days for imaging equipment. Not sure this is from the day it is when it arrives to when it is complete ignoring delivery times or when its when parts are ordered if required.
If you get a new one will it need the new fix for the AF?
As the shop havent got any and will have to get one from canon hot off the press so to speak then I would be suprised if it needs a fix.. imagine if they replce one camera only to say I need to send it in for a fix.. I would guess a fully sorted camera
as for replacement.. I ahve emailed cps three times.. I ahve filled out the online form.. i ahve stressed the imnportance and used the words "please" and "help" a lot... still no reply :(
is there a phone number to ring up, if not ring canon directly or give one of the directors an email?
sportysnaps
23-03-2009, 21:41
"
dear cps
please get it right this time or I will sell up and go to Nikon
signed busy sports photographer
p.s this is an area where canon beats Nikon every single time till the 1dmk3....(get it SORTED)
"
just my view...
is there a phone number to ring up, if not ring canon directly or give one of the directors an email?
You get a rep which is there to look after your area.
"
dear cps
please get it right this time or I will sell up and go to Nikon
signed busy sports photographer
p.s this is an area where canon beats Nikon every single time till the 1dmk3....(get it SORTED)
"
just my view...
Agreed. I would see it as a hindrance especially if I rely on it for my earnings. The essence of CPS.
Well.. another day gone and still being ignored by the CPS
Canon rep not got back to the shop yet.. I have noiw copied the three workshheets and sent them to the shop as backup to my claim
Still sat here with dead mkIII and I ahve a league 2 game accy v darlington tonight.. shooting for 3 different newspapers in a very dark ground with the mkII and am worried :(
Anorakus
24-03-2009, 16:53
Does the 1Ds mk III have the same bad reputation for reliability, or is it just the crop-sensor 1D?
Canon are being really dumb :cuckoo: It would serve them right if they began to lose market share to Nikon due to getting a reputation for producing unreliable cameras. To think I switched to Canon last year from having used Nikon film SLRs :(
A.
Gary Coyle
24-03-2009, 17:19
Kipax, if you can get to my house you can borrow my D3 and 300mm until Thursday
PM sent
If you bought it using a credit card, you may also claim against the credit card company under the Consumer Credit Act as they too are responsible for proving goods of merchantable quality. I suggest you also involve them in your claim.
The CC company are jointly and severably liaible with the retailer, but I think there may be a time limit on this. You would need to check with the CAB.
Under joint and several liability, a claimant may pursue an obligation against any one party as if they were jointly liable.
as mentioned... bank transfer.. looks like its a waiting game now... mega dissapointed with CPS though..
gary.. your trying to turn me with the nikon gear arrnt you!!! hehehe pm replied... many thanks :)
sportysnaps
24-03-2009, 22:48
Kipax, if you can get to my house you can borrow my D3 and 300mm until Thursday
PM sent
nice touch - i tried a d3 at .. that photo show in Birmingham :lol:
Well its now the 6th day since the mkIII died and the 6th day since i contacted the CPS.. 4 emails and the online CPS form filled in and not a peep back from them :( :(
Camera still sat here because the shop have not yet confirmed it will be replaced.. they are awaiting the canon rep to confirm its been taken in three times already... I even sent them the worksheets from canon to backup my claim.
At least my ever ready ever stable ever reliable mkII is performing to its usual high standards while I wait :)
fracster
26-03-2009, 09:31
Hi mate,I find this whole episode quite unbelievable and very poor from Canon.......:thumbsdown:
Gary Coyle
26-03-2009, 09:38
Kipax, didnt i say to you one of the reasons i switched to Nikon was the disgrtaceful customer service one gets from Canon, your latest experience has just confirmed im glad i jumped.
You should just drop it off at Calumet in Manchester and sod what anyone else tells you, simple fact is its knackered so needs fixing and it aint gonna get fixed while Frankie Jim is wiping his backside on the emails you sent him
Canon seriously disgust me.
Its upsetting me :( I know at some point I will ahve a brand new mkIII and eventually the world will be OK .. but meanwhile its so depressing waiitng and knowing my pics should be better...
Gary. I have give up the ghost on this one.. I want a replacement camera not this fixing... my fingers are crossed that a replacement isnt as big a bag of doo dah as this one is :(
Gary Coyle
26-03-2009, 09:40
Its upsetting me :( I know at some point I will ahve a brand new mkIII and eventually the world will be OK .. but meanwhile its so depressing waiitng and knowing my pics should be better...
Do you seriously want one, would you have any confidence in it.
i wouldnt have any confidence in it at all.. but others have working models so i would hope second time lucky and confidence grow with use..
I really cant afford the alternative..
Your not going to believe this.. i swear to god this is the truth.
the shop just phoned me up and said they spoke to the canon rep and he says canon need to see the camera before they can do anything AND that they have no record of me being a CPS member.....
I gave him my cps number.. told him i even logged into the cps area to send a message by form.. i ahve the black card with my number on... every time i send the canon in i give my cps number...
so he has gone back to the rep with proof i am a member..
I swear I am not making this up :(
Chillimonster
26-03-2009, 10:33
Nikon is calling you :)
I know you say you cannot afford it, but from the sound of it this is going to lose you money, so can you afford not to switch to Nikon :shrug:
Having now got a number for the CPS I just called them.. expressed my dismay at not being replied to and the nice lady said she will look into it... told her the story so far including the bit about me not being a CPS member.. she said she is now going to phone canon.. tell them I am a member and find out excatly whats going on then phone me back
So shop and CPS going to phone me back...
At the end of the day I ahve people on the other end of the phone agreeing with me that i should ahve a replacement.. but 6 days later still sat here with a dead MKIII :(
PS in all my calls no matter how I am feeling at this end.. I am being ultra polite..
Chillimonster
26-03-2009, 10:40
PS in all my calls no matter how I am feeling at this end.. I am being ultra polite..
More than i would be :)
At this point i would be 'rejecting' the camera and sending it back no matter what. :rules:
Well the CPS just phoned me.. they say they have responded to my emails (my spam doesnt get deleted its in a folder.. there nothing anywhere) The CPS have said all they can do is advise me to phone the canon service center because they say theres a new fix out that should sort all the problems... I told her politely that I did that on Monday morning and they said they will fix it ... I dont want it fixing so they say go back to shop.. She said my membership is in order so canon and the shop should sort it out..
I agreed with her but nothing happened in 6 days and people say contact CPS for help.. yet all she can do is tell me to ring canon service
Complete and utter waste of time :(
More than i would be :)
At this point i would be 'rejecting' the camera and sending it back no matter what. :rules:
I darnt send it back without knowing someone is expecting it and soemhting will happen..
bitterly dissapointed with the CPS though :(
photoden
26-03-2009, 11:14
Why dont you also tell them that you are shareing the story as it is unfolding with your friends on this website and the fact that it is not a good advert for canon !!
Gary Coyle
26-03-2009, 13:56
Like i said Kipax, the disgusting way Canon Service treats people made my mind up about jumping ship, and where the hell is Frankie Jim in all of this, your "Personal Conon Representitive"
Absotlutly no bleeding where thats where.
I sent 14 emails to Canon support regarding my lens problem and got 2 replies, both were automated replies asking me to take part in an online survey about my experiences with Canon Support, talk about kicking a man when hes down.
Well i got a call around half an hr ago from a guy who says he runs the canon CPS ..(notice i am not using names or even shop name) the jist was that he had emailed (while we spoke) canon to say it should be replaced.. he said it would be a B stock camera ie already used but latest firmware and updates..
he gave me a number and name to call.. this was to arrange delivery of mine to them and a camera to me
i called.. they tell me they dont replace camera with 4 different faults.. only if its been back with same fault and unresolved.. he actually told me its electical and thats why we have warranties... i swear thats what he said.
he said if i send in they will look at it to fix.. i said not an option.. he then said he would talk to the people concerened and someone would get back to me..
so here we are.. nearing the end of day 6 and just like monday.. i am sat with my dead mkIII waiting for a telephone call and still no real idea what will happen
I am speaking to a lot of nice people on the phone who are all being nice to me... but I am no better off than when it happened.
i think the guy who phoned me from cps is genuine and i ahve emailed him what canon said... i am hoping he will sort it...
to be continued....... i hope :(
Back to the dealer brandishing the Sale of Goods Act. Several faults show the cam wasn't of merchantable quality from the outset, which is all you need to show. Recent treatment from CPS further undermine your confidence in the brand and level of service expected. Choice of refund or replacement (with a new cam) is down to you.
nice idea photon but a waste of journey as they will refuse and say they need the OK from canon first.. doesnt matter how much i stamp my feet and demand... your right of course thats what should happen :(
jerry12953
26-03-2009, 14:42
Canon seem to be going from bad to worse..... sorry there's nothing I can do but sympathise...:(
Put it in writing (template letters are available) giving them 14 days to rectify the situation, or else you reserve the option to take a Small Claims Action against them.
admirable
26-03-2009, 15:10
How old is this camera and what do you think the shutter count is?
edit,I see it's 8 months.
hotchef23
26-03-2009, 15:12
The SoG legislation actually allows you to lodge a claim well after any warranty period has passed. Goods must last for what could be considered "reasonable life expectancy", so even after 2 or 3 years you would still technically have a claim,
it can actually go upp to six years
hotchef23
26-03-2009, 15:32
fully read through the posts now, was looking at purchasing and up grading camera.
i am now very relucatant and considering ditching to the dark side.
the availabilty of nikon appears to be far better than canon.
poor poor show from canon not good for a company when we are in such a state as we are with money and banks etc.
in fact disgusting and i feel the only way to go is trading standards and small claim court.
the liability is with retailer and not manufacturer and having the forms of eveidence that you have for repairs couldnt see a court in the land not ruling in your favour.
also loss of bussiness from camera issues.
sorry canon not happy to move up rather move side ways
Canon Bob
26-03-2009, 15:52
Tony,
There's a bit of perverse irony that this months CPS newsletter has a "Masterclass in shooting football"....the guy uses two 1DMkIII's and a 5D (he doesn't say that he carries all three on the off chance that one might work).
What you're going through now seems to be endemic with the way companies treat consumers. Whereas bad experiences were the noteworthy ones, we've reached a level generally where it's the good experiences that stand out.
Hope you quickly get the resolution you need...although it'd be already too late if it was me.
Bob
Well the guy from canon who was the least helpful earlier today has just phoned me to say it is all in hand and I will get a B class replacement ..I presume this means a body thats been sent back by someone else)
He said someone from services will phone me (sigh) and confirm whats going to happen.. A letter will be sent to me to sign saying I am happy to swap.. I send this with the camera (they are paying postage this time) to them.. they then send the replacement to me..
I suppose if I get the call before weekend ie tommorow) then it could all be resolved middle to end of next week... I end up with a used camera that has been fixed.. will ahve latest firmware and latest fixes done and be as good as new (there description)
So I think we are nearly there... even if I am now sat here waiting for another phone call :)
and thanks for the encouragment and offers of help everyone... TP members have been far more supportive than the shop, CPS and canon all rolled into one :)
fracster
26-03-2009, 16:08
Tony,in real terms,what would it cost to move to Nikon?
That is, to sell your existing used Canon stuff and replace with used Nikon stuff.
Bloody shambolic performance by Canon......:thumbsdown:
admirable
26-03-2009, 16:11
A small point,
if you were not a member here none of us would know about this!
fracster.. dunno.. but gary coyle has just done exactly that. with impressive results. problem is the credit crunch.. prices are way out there now... Also.. when it is working I am blown away wiht the results 80% of the time... just an issue with skintones in sunny sunny conditions...
Canon 1DMKII ..old and knackered but works!
Canon 1DMKIII ... ahem!
Canon 300 2.8L is ... few months old and absoloutly stunning
Canon 70-200L non IS
Canon 24-70L
Canon 50mm f1.8 (Nifty Fifty)
Canon 1.4 mkII TC nearly new
Canon 420ex Flash
Canon 550ex Flash, Quantum+1 power pack
Whats the equivelant to that lot in Nikon?
Canon Bob
26-03-2009, 16:53
Canon 1DMKII ..old and knackered but works!,,,,D3 at £2729
Canon 1DMKIII ... ahem!,,,,,D3 at £2729
Canon 300 2.8L is ... few months old and absoloutly stunning ,,,,£3699
Canon 70-200L non IS,,,,,£1450
Canon 24-70L,,,,£1184
Canon 50mm f1.8 (Nifty Fifty) ,,,,£88
Canon 1.4 mkII TC nearly new,,,,£210
Canon 420ex Flash,,,,£196
Canon 550ex Flash, Quantum+1 power pack,,,,£308
Whats the equivelant to that lot in Nikon?
Seems to be around £12,500 give or take a bit
Bob
fracster
26-03-2009, 16:55
Those are new prices you have quoted Bob,what would the Canon gear realise if sold?
Canon Bob
26-03-2009, 17:05
Those are new prices you have quoted Bob,what would the Canon gear realise if sold?
About £8500 if the buyer hasn't read this thread, around £5000 if they have.
Bob
A letter will be sent to me to sign saying I am happy to swap
I wonder if there'll be additional clauses? Bear in mind we think you're entitled to a new cam or refund from the dealer. I think you need proper consumer advice before accepting.
Gary Coyle
26-03-2009, 18:23
whose to say the "used" replacement wont have 200,000 actuations on it.
when the service guy phones up I will ask to make sure that its the latest and it has to be low actuations.. even if the one I am sending him has been used and used and used :)
whose to say the "used" replacement wont have 200,000 actuations on it.
Exactly my thoughts, I would not accept a used, with no History replacement.
I'd go all out for a full refund/Brand new Camera.
Your Camera is not fit for purpose full stop.
i would not accept a B grade replacement, the shop should be refunding you your money, they shouldnt need to be in contact with canon, your contract of sale is not with Canon it is with the shop you bought it from. Go see CAB and see what they say, they even do a thing where you can ring up i think.
Well no ones called me anyways :( what a shock.. no chance of anyhting happening weekend so its this aft or next chance is monday.. that will be nine days sat with a dead camera :(
Gary Coyle
27-03-2009, 12:17
Nikon, Nikon, can you hear it calling you.
BertRoot
27-03-2009, 12:33
Disgraceful state of affairs. Hope you get a decent fix out of all this. Personally wouldn't accept a B Grade machine as you have no idea of what has happened to it and I would be annoyed by the sheer suggestion of it. If this is how Canon treat CPS members then I am surprised they hold any of them. Investment in glass has a lot to answer for I fancy.
have checked on cab and its all repair or part refund blah blah
a working mkIII is all I want.. its not much to ask for the money i paid out :(
bert yer right re glass... and re disgracefull
candlestick
27-03-2009, 12:57
Canon appear to be extracting the urine big style here - they do not have a monopoly on the market, and you wouldn't be the 1st pro to cross to the dark side, especially with their current pro range on offer by Nikon. Are Canon incapable of realising this?? Perhaps they are not suffering in the current economic crisis.....;)
I'd email them with a link to this forum, you know the one with 5k (a guestimate) potential Canon viewers reading it! It is beginning to sound like the EportUK thread!!??
candlestick.. i do have over 10k of canon equipment here.. thats a lot..its a big part of my life invested...But i dont think 10k is anything to canon though :( and it would seem it isnt ... :(
candlestick
27-03-2009, 13:22
Exactly my point, 10K (and probably 10 times amount that in your pro lifetime) should not be sniffed at by any company!! I could understand if Canon gave me that kind of service (though I'd still be pretty hacked off) but I'm not a member of CPS - you should be getting a platinum service so to speak!!
Canon should be ashamed of themselves!! :(
hotchef23
27-03-2009, 13:31
give watchdog a tug see if they is interested?
shocking treatment for the money.
two interesting phone calls in the last hour..
canon regional sales manager who covers the shop i got the camera from.. he apologised and apologised and said he is getting this sorted.. he is emailing and will telephone the appropriate lady to get the swap sorted asap and i should expect a phone call from her to have it sorted.. he said hopefully today but as the day is nearly ended then may be monday
back to waiitng for a phone call...
then the shop phoned me half an hr or so later... elstree shut down this aft due to a power failure.. everyone went home so cant be sorted today..
he then said a camera is being sent to me immideiatly and they will pick mine up when it gets here thus saving time...
he said a B class camera isnt a used camera.. its one that will have been sent out.. maybe not powerd up as a lot dont...hmm... and then sorted, it cant be classed new but it wont have been used.. however he would be suprised if they gave me one of them..
so as its weekend now.. hopefully some more news on day nine.. monday...
Kipax that is disgusting treatment canon have landed you with, I can t add anything to help you get it sorted out but I hope it all comes good in the end for you.
Mark
cressers
27-03-2009, 20:13
interesting thread. I wonder how much damge the MkIII has done to Canon in the long run.
I am guessing a lot of pro's who depend on the camera, once switched to another brand, are unliklely to come back.
One issue is that Nikon were (i read in another thread) offering good prices to take your canon gear in exchange for nikon gear (could be wrong, anyone remember that thread?)
Its the old expression, one recommendation gets you 1 sale, 1 negative review loses you 10
interesting thread. I wonder how much damge the MkIII has done to Canon in the long run.
I am guessing a lot of pro's who depend on the camera, once switched to another brand, are unliklely to come back.
One issue is that Nikon were (i read in another thread) offering good prices to take your canon gear in exchange for nikon gear (could be wrong, anyone remember that thread?)
Its the old expression, one recommendation gets you 1 sale, 1 negative review loses you 10
I have herd this about Nikon offering trade ins for your canon gear from a few other photographers at matches i have covered recently but never managed to find any thing about it myself does anyone have any details ?
BertRoot
30-03-2009, 11:09
Any movement on the ongoing saga Kipax?
A women called maureen phoned me as promised within the last hr.. But she said theres no way they wil send one out and pick mine up as promised friday by someone else :(
She said I have to send mine back today.. they will check it.. send a letter of confirmation out and i sign return and then they send a b class camera out...
sigh.
so I got her down to.. I send camera out this morning guaranteed next day del.. tue she emails me the letter., i print. sign and fax it back.. she then send out the camera tuesday for next day del... so I get it wed and all over and done with..
But I will be shocked to the core if I get it wed.. more likely thursday ... this is day 9 and thursday will be day 13
In the letter i sent wiht my camera i reiterated the plan and also wrote down that she had promised..BClass camera is not used... does not require any fixes or firmware updates that are currently avalabe at time of writing.. i specificly asked her about the one that came out in march.. she said it will be up to date..
so.. cameras gone and she is going to contact me again tommorow.. she gave me her direct line number just in case..
fingers crossed :(
I have herd this about Nikon offering trade ins for your canon gear from a few other photographers at matches i have covered recently but never managed to find any thing about it myself does anyone have any details ?
Heard the same stories myself and I spoke to the shop I got mine from .. he said all prem league photographers where contacted and they only swap white lenses and canon bodies..
no other details as to who what how though...
jerry12953
30-03-2009, 11:29
A women called maureen phoned me as promised within the last hr.. But she said theres no way they wil send one out and pick mine up as promised friday by someone else :(
She said I have to send mine back today.. they will check it.. send a letter of confirmation out and i sign return and then they send a b class camera out...
sigh.
so I got her down to.. I send camera out this morning guaranteed next day del.. tue she emails me the letter., i print. sign and fax it back.. she then send out the camera tuesday for next day del... so I get it wed and all over and done with..
But I will be shocked to the core if I get it wed.. more likely thursday ... this is day 9 and thursday will be day 13
In the letter i sent wiht my camera i reiterated the plan and also wrote down that she had promised..BClass camera is not used... does not require any fixes or firmware updates that are currently avalabe at time of writing.. i specificly asked her about the one that came out in march.. she said it will be up to date..
so.. cameras gone and she is going to contact me again tommorow.. she gave me her direct line number just in case..
fingers crossed :(
What are they p***ing around for? It's an appalling saga
Day 10
No phone call or email letter from canon to say they recieved my camera or the call about swapping it.. so i phoned them... Didnt know it had arrived.. so went to check and phoned me back.. they have it and then sent me an email letter to sign and return so they can post me a BStock camera
The wording on the letter was that I agree accept a replacemnt b stock camera as a gesture of goodwill by canon.... It hurt to sign it but what the heck lets get it over wiht.. It also says existing guarantee will be transferred to this unit
So ... holds breath for camera to arrive on day 11 wed 1st april.... eeerm hang on... 1st april? sigh :)
BertRoot
31-03-2009, 13:55
Haha good luck with the return sir. Hopefully you will get what you originally paid for this time!!
admirable
31-03-2009, 14:19
To be honest I would be happy to wait if I thought they were going to replace the camera. I asked what you thought the shutter count would be but you haven't answered so would a good guess be 100,000? By your own admission it gets constant use so it would be interesting to know.
Playing devils advocate here how do Canon know if you look after your stuff? For all they know you could be a right hashy B that doesn't service their equiptment or even clean it! I bet the guys at Canon see some sights 'under warranty'.
I wouldn't think 10 days is too long to ask of Canon in a case like this and I know I use Canon but would say the same if it was Nikon.
So I have to ask 'what did you want to happen or what did you want/expect Canon to do?
I haven't read all of this thread, but that's shocking service you've received there...
As a contrast, I own a Makita sliding mitre saw and have had it for 3 weeks but the bearings on the slider are rough. I asked for a brand new unit as the cut is being affected by the juddering and the Office Manager at the place of purchase has arranged a courier to collect the faulty unit tomorrow and a replacement should arrive when they have the replacement in, in a few days.
Why oh why can't Canon do the same?:shrug:
I should be left with tool I trust (given the quality of Makita) and the replacement shouldn't have the same fault...
Hope it's sorted soon
admirable
31-03-2009, 15:01
I haven't read all of this thread, but that's shocking service you've received there...
As a contrast, I own a Makita sliding mitre saw and have had it for 3 weeks but the bearings on the slider are rough. I asked for a brand new unit as the cut is being affected by the juddering and the Office Manager at the place of purchase has arranged a courier to collect the faulty unit tomorrow and a replacement should arrive when they have the replacement in, in a few days.
Why oh why can't Canon do the same?:shrug:
I should be left with tool I trust (given the quality of Makita) and the replacement shouldn't have the same fault...
Hope it's sorted soon
I think there is a difference between three weeks and eight months! Try getting them to change your saw after eight months and see what happens.
To be honest I would be happy to wait if I thought they were going to replace the camera. I asked what you thought the shutter count would be but you haven't answered so would a good guess be 100,000? By your own admission it gets constant use so it would be interesting to know.
Playing devils advocate here how do Canon know if you look after your stuff? For all they know you could be a right hashy B that doesn't service their equiptment or even clean it! I bet the guys at Canon see some sights 'under warranty'.
I wouldn't think 10 days is too long to ask of Canon in a case like this and I know I use Canon but would say the same if it was Nikon.
So I have to ask 'what did you want to happen or what did you want/expect Canon to do?
So you would be happy that as a Pro photographer you could not make the money to keep your family, while Canon pro services decide wether or not you deserve their help when their very expensive pro grade equipment fails, try telling the children when there is no food on the table next month because you have not been able to work, maybe that's a harsh example but unfortunately for many a simple fact ,I have to add why do you buy pro grade equipment ? for its toughness & reliability surely, as for what do you expect Canon to do ? maybe provide a tool of the trade that does not fail 4 times within an 8 month period or is that just to much to ask. all i can say is poor show Canon :thumbsdown:
I think there is a difference between three weeks and eight months! Try getting them to change your saw after eight months and see what happens.
IIRC I think Kipax had problems with it after just under a month and was sent away for repair and the camera has broken a few times since and Canon's stance was the same then as it is now...
Another member has the same problem with his 5D Mk II and took loads of hassle even to get a B stock replacement..
9 weeks old it stopped working.. then a month or so later it went back.. then OK right the way through crimbo to feb this year and had to go back again and then packed in 10 days ago... Each problem different to the other and each problem left the camera unusable.
As a freelancer I need to have working equipment.. 3k is a bit much to pop out and buy a replacement.. My backup camera is a perfectly good 1dmkII and the work I ahve done in the last 10 days are with this.
But and heres the big but... I ahve not been able to do work that requires the mkIII
I joined the CPS for fast service as well.
Sorry but i think 10 days of me not being able to use equipment i paid for and me havign to phone so many different people and departments.. not to mention the 70+ quid postage .. being messed about wiht different stories and finally getting a replacment on day 12 .... Not good enough by a long way..
If you would be happy with that then thats up to you..But when your out and about and spend most of your time worrying if the camera is even going to make it through the session.. thats just wrong.. new camera and hopefully not as unlucky.. :)
But when your out and about and spend most of your time worrying if the camera is even going to make it through the session.. thats just wrong.
Very true...I bet you constantly have a nagging thought in the back of your mind wondering what is going to go wrong next. :(
All the best with the replacement. :)
Very true...I bet you constantly have a nagging thought in the back of your mind wondering what is going to go wrong next. :(
All the best with the replacement. :)
It eases with time as it did between fault 2 and 3 ... but then just as i am confident and happy.. wham.. the lens catch doesnt work and i cant attach a lens to the camera... just one thing after another.. lost all confidence in it...
I love it when its working.. has many more good bits than faults :)
I hope Canon pull there finger out soon and get you a new working camera.
Having read the thread it sound like Canon are going to have to give you a large payout if you were to go down the litigation route.
They have sold you a camera that is not fit for purpose.
I hope Canon pull there finger out soon and get you a new working camera.
Having read the thread it sound like Canon are going to have to give you a large payout if you were to go down the litigation route.
They have sold you a camera that is not fit for purpose.
Yeagh.. prob why they are so keen to get me to sign the letter saying i will accept the replacement ..
Have been promised? that it will be here tommorow... wed... so fingers crossed but breath not held :)
admirable
31-03-2009, 16:38
So I have to ask 'what did you want to happen or what did you want/expect Canon to do?
So I have to ask 'what did you want to happen or what did you want/expect Canon to do?
I am happy with what they ahve done..I am far from happy that its cost me money in postage and lost work.. I am far from happy that its taken nearly 2 weeks and not the 5 days they promise to sort CPS members problems out in. I am far from happy that I have had to spend time every day chasing people to actually do somehting.. I am far from happy that as nice as everyone has been.. they all seem to ahve different stories..
Its not a matter of I got what i want... its how... its not the way a customer with 12.5k of money invested in there company should be treated.. its not the way someone who pays thousands for a camera should be treated when on everage every 2 months it has to be returned because it doesnt work
hows that for starters? :)
admirable
31-03-2009, 17:24
You're not answering my question.
Uneducated_Rick
31-03-2009, 17:27
I am far from happy that its taken nearly 2 weeks and not the 5 days they promise to sort CPS members problems out in. I am far from happy that I have had to spend time every day chasing people to actually do somehting.. I am far from happy that as nice as everyone has been.. they all seem to ahve different stories..
I think he wants some continuity between what different people say and for them to work to the 5 day deadline they set themselves
You're not answering my question.
Sorry thought I had... I am missing somehting then... its me.. It tends to happen. I think I am missreadin what you eman.. not quite sure ?
Another go :)
I wanted them to replace my camera but I wanted them to do it within a better time frame (the one they said) and without me having to chase them every day.. because for sure nothign would have happened today or any other day If I wasnt chasing.. I wanted better customer service and i wanted it to not cost me anything.. i wanted not to worry and not to feel like no one was interested.
I think thats it? :) but it still looks like my first attempt ?
canon regional sales manager who covers the shop i got the camera from.. he apologised and apologised and said he is getting this sorted.. he is emailing and will telephone the appropriate lady to get the swap sorted asap and i should expect a phone call from her to have it sorted.. he said hopefully today but as the day is nearly ended then may be monday
...
Had you considered emailing the sales manager a link to this thread? They may wish to re-think how they are handling the issue if they are aware that the details are now in the public domain.
Had you considered emailing the sales manager a link to this thread? They may wish to re-think how they are handling the issue if they are aware that the details are now in the public domain.
To be honest I want to get a camera in my hand.. i dont want to get anyones backs up and give them a reason to say stuff him.. make him wait.. hence why I ahve been nothing but nice and polite to everyone I ahve spoken to :)
Lensflare
31-03-2009, 22:12
SO, have you got your replacement yet?
If so, get a piece of letterhead paper and write to the Chief Executive - NOBODY ELSE.
Write down all that you have you told us on here. Then ask him/her (worth finding out who the CEO is) whether that is the normally accepted performance of his staff and the usual treatment meted out to their professional customers.
As a comparison. I had my Nikon 70-200 do funny things. It wouldn't workon VR at all - I phoned NPS, thye asked to see some pics if I could email them in...I actually sent the a CD with pictures on displaying the problme. I got a phone call about 2 days later to say that it shouldn't be like that and they would try to repair it under warranty. I would have a loan lens while it was bieng repaired/checked. They sent me a loan lens.
A couple of weeks wnet by, th eloan lens worked OK. My lens was being replaced - THEIR OFFER, NOT MY REQUEST. They sent me a new lens and the courier was briefed to collect the loan lens as he delivered the new one.
NPS gives a 3 working day turn round. Itis administered and staffed by full time Nikon employees in HQ - not farmed out to a 3rd party contractor (which it sounds like Canon do from what you say). They don't need my number - they remember my name.
Nikon are a completely different type of company to Canon. They even worked round the problem of the lens mount so that all the leneses from 1959 still work on themodern bodies. Unlike canon who decided to shaft all their owners when they changed from FD mount to the new EOS mount...apparently because it was the only way they could provide the new systems...Nikon didn't need to.
Canon have shafted their owners a couple of times in recent years.
Nikon have made sure that there is backwards compatability right across their pro range for nearly every accessory and lens. A very thoughtful and loyal approach. Nikon do care about their owners.
Mikesphotaes
31-03-2009, 22:20
You're not answering my question.
Specsavers are quite cheap these days!
Specsavers are quite cheap these days!
I use them all the time ..
Amazingly its arrived:)
Box shows yellow dot.. mine was blue
Camera looks unused.. sparkling... and shows 72 actuations
Just tried a few straight out the box shots... on the 300 prob needs a little calibration.. looking good so far...
Going to try other lenses then look at sligh calibration...fingers crossed time :)
best of luck with it, this has got to be a good one :)
Mikesphotaes
01-04-2009, 09:05
Hope that your problem is now resolved, Kipax.
The wording on the letter was that I agree accept a replacemnt b stock camera as a gesture of goodwill by canon
What a **** take by Canon "gesture of good will" my arse, i hate to say this but i think by accepting a B class camera you may have dropped yourself in it even more should it go wrong, and i really hope it doesn't for you, i would only have accepted a new replacement, even if it meant taking them to the small claims court, which given the service you've had i'm confident you would have won hands down, i would have definitely threatened them with the Watchdog programme,and another thing the onus was definitely on the shop not the manufacturer, all's i can say is i'm glad i never went down the Canon route, i wish you all the best with the replacement and really hope nothing else goes wrong with it :thumbs:
Your probably right TG but in all honesty I couldnt afford the time it would take to be without a MKIII :(
admirable
01-04-2009, 09:45
Amazingly its arrived:)
Box shows yellow dot.. mine was blue
Camera looks unused.. sparkling... and shows 72 actuations
Just tried a few straight out the box shots... on the 300 prob needs a little calibration.. looking good so far...
Going to try other lenses then look at sligh calibration...fingers crossed time :)
Oh yea of little faith! :lol:
You sound a tad happier this morning and I hope this gives you a little lift and it all works out well for you!
Your probably right TG but in all honesty I couldnt afford the time it would take to be without a MKIII :(
Yes i can see your point, but i'm just wondering if you had of taken them to court could you not also claim for time ie emails, phone calls, loss of earnings etc etc, i'm sure you would have a very good case, but like you say you needed your kit which i can understand.
Oh yea of little faith! :lol:
Ha!!! :)
BertRoot
01-04-2009, 15:39
Hurrah!! Glad you got something back and hopefully this one will work for a little longer.
Is this you Kipax? - the post #27 user 'shutdown'
I know the thread is about the 5dii but ....
http://www.hotukdeals.com/item/370477/canon-5d-mark-ii-with-24-105-l-lens/showthread.php?p=4801838&posted=1#post4801838
I am a member of so many messageboards i cant keep track of where they are.. BUT .. I always use KIPAX as my username... KIPAX_ASFC maybe sometimes buy mosty KIPAX :)
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