Product Photography & Invisible Mannequins

[68lbs]

Does anyone have any knowledge or experience producing 'invisible mannequin' style product shots? The sort of thing I mean is as below...

http://www.coggles.com/pimages/67991/41013_500_x_667.jpg

http://www.coggles.com/pimages/74582/38643_500_x_667.jpg

I've tried researching and am getting very little other than people asking similar questions, and discussions based around wire frame mannequins and lots of pp work. I am guessing there MUST be some fairly easy way of doing things here, but ideally need someone with first hand knowledge to advise.

Hacking apart mannequins doesn't work, as a lot of clothing is fitted so if you say chop off bits of mannequin around the neck/arms you get clearly visible tension creases in the fabric when it's shot.

So... the only option I can see is shoot on either a mannequin or model. Then shoot the same garment flat and pp in the back of the neck. Even if you're proficient, this is a very time consuming task though. Look at the quality in the two examples above. It looks pretty darned good to me!

Ok, the thread is now open to the panel to comment...

[david1701]

what about a luminous green manikin that would be easy to pp white ala green screen or blue screen in cinema

no other good ideas aside from getting a nice looking manikin or some models and shooting with it/them visible

[HoppyUK]

Does anyone have any knowledge or experience producing 'invisible mannequin' style product shots?
Hacking apart mannequins doesn't work, as a lot of clothing is fitted so if you say chop off bits of mannequin around the neck/arms you get clearly visible tension creases in the fabric when it's shot.

So... the only option I can see is shoot on either a mannequin or model. Then shoot the same garment flat and pp in the back of the neck. Even if you're proficient, this is a very time consuming task though. Look at the quality in the two examples above. It looks pretty darned good to me!

Ok, the thread is now open to the panel to comment...

Doing exactly as you say is surely the easiest. You're probably going to have to cut out the background for pure white in post processing anyway, so adding the back of the collar at the same time would seem like a doddle.

[fontmoss]

you can get mannequins that dont have a head or arms, that may be easier?

[Tyke Tiler]

So... the only option I can see is shoot on either a mannequin or model. Then shoot the same garment flat and pp in the back of the neck. Even if you're proficient, this is a very time consuming task though. Look at the quality in the two examples above. It looks pretty darned good to me!

Quite a close guess mate :thumbs: but it's not as time consuming as you'd think if set up, shot and executed properly. Layer masks when studied, enable a very quick result when building a composite, even more so when working with over exposed backgrounds.

It's been in the 'potential pipes' for a wee while but this year, I may be working with a fly fishing company called Vision, shooting very similar items.

We had a meeting last August concerning the product photography for Vision's clothing ranges for their 2010 catalogue, I asked them how the waders and jackets were shot and the art director told me that it's fairly intensive layer composites, some items and garments had a series of layers containing various angles/views of the clothing on a mannequin and then blended seamlessly during post production giving them the appearance as if the invisible man/woman was fashioning the garment.

The waders were the most complex (http://www.visionflyfishing.com/page.php?page_id=30&c=34) as they all have braces. :eek: Some eight or more layers but total time spent piecing them together was in the 30-40 minute regions.

To achieve the Daz white background, just over expose by a stop or so.

[68lbs]

You're probably going to have to cut out the background for pure white in post processing anyway

No, we blow the background out when the shot is taken so at the minute do hardly any pp. Having to cut out the product would be a mare with something like 10,000 shots.

Thanks for giving it some thought though peeps. The problem isn't the background, it's the 'invisible mannequin' and the neck area. If there's no bright ideas, then it sounds like extensive pp is the only route.

Edit: Posted before reading Tomas's

[Tyke Tiler]

No, we blow the background out when the shot is taken so at the minute do hardly any pp. Having to cut out the product would be a mare with something like 10,000 shots.

Thanks for giving it some thought though peeps. The problem isn't the background, it's the 'invisible mannequin' and the neck area. If there's no bright ideas, then it sounds like extensive pp is the only route.

10,000? If I were you mate I'd reconsider the invisible mannequin option if at all possible. :'( Saying that though, a double shot composite in the manner that you have suggested my not be so bad, do a couple of trials with various clothing and see how much time it takes.

Sounds like a nightmare job though buddy, I hope your getting paid or benefit greatly from doing this in some way. :thumbs:

[68lbs]

Sounds like a nightmare job though buddy, I hope your getting paid or benefit greatly from doing this in some way. :thumbs:

It's 'part' of my job... but I don't actually take the pics. I've set up the studio and it's all set up so a numpty can press the button and take the shot. At the moment the results are ten times better than they used to be, but now I really want to move them onto the next level and I have two possible routes...

1. Invisible mannequins
2. Live models

Given that I would have to do any pp or arrange another 'skilled' body, I am thinking the live models might be the best route. It's not like we'd need to worry about hair/makeup as we'd be cropping the heads off.

[Tyke Tiler]

Given that I would have to do any pp or arrange another 'skilled' body, I am thinking the live models might be the best route. It's not like we'd need to worry about hair/makeup as we'd be cropping the heads off.

In terms of post production using models would be the simplest route and much quicker overall too, a much better plan than invisible folk :thumbs:

Just gotta find a male and female that will model 10,000 garments :D

[whooshdemon]

I don't know but my first thought was that they must be using some sort of wire frame to support the garment - and then fairly easy photoshop of get rid of couple of supporting wires, or no photoshop if its the right shape. That way you can see the inside label of the garment too.

Quick internet search haven't really found what I hoped for, but stuff like this (http://www.melodymaison.co.uk/product.php?productid=1341&cat=108&page=1)might work for you. That one is a bit fancy and probably pricey, but would guess wholesale mannequin people do that sort of thing.

[mmcp42]

you might find this (http://www.bellaluz1502.com/Photography/TipsAndHints/InvisiblePeople.pdf) useful :nuts:

it's one of a set... (http://www.bellaluz1502.com/Photography/index.php?loc=2)

[Tyke Tiler]

you might find this (http://www.bellaluz1502.com/Photography/TipsAndHints/InvisiblePeople.pdf) useful :nuts:

it's one of a set... (http://www.bellaluz1502.com/Photography/index.php?loc=2)

Crikey, that would be hell 10,000 times over. I'd find the models and limit the PP to basics. :thumbs:

[Trev Rich]

Why has noone stated the obvious?
Hire this guy?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_dUW0kIrE0V4/Rkj7oUv6IyI/AAAAAAAAAT8/fMJo9JPRl8M/s320/invisible_man_1933.jpg

[Tyke Tiler]

Why has noone stated the obvious?
Hire this guy?

:lol: Isn't he fully booked?

[tiler65]

Why has noone stated the obvious?
Hire this guy?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_dUW0kIrE0V4/Rkj7oUv6IyI/AAAAAAAAAT8/fMJo9JPRl8M/s320/invisible_man_1933.jpg

:lol: Isn't he fully booked?

He was but nobody has seen him for ages.

[68lbs]

you might find this (http://www.bellaluz1502.com/Photography/TipsAndHints/InvisiblePeople.pdf) useful

:eek:

Is that for real? I'd have thought my method of shooting flat and inserting the back of the neck onto a mannequinned shot would be FAR easier.

I'm exploring models now...

Expect a sample image upload tonite :)

You can now all feel free to abuse my serious thread with pictures of David McCallum and mummified looking B&W stills. :p

[TerryO]

We used to use seamstress mannequins, they are limbless and hollow with wire frame, just cut the neck to suit the shoot, can still get them I'm sure if you search the net...ours was brown, don't know where its gone actually, bugger, gonna have to search the place now

forgot to say they are covered wire frames, no nobbly bits sticking out

[tiler65]

http://blissandbloom.co.uk/default.aspx?go=productdisplay&productid=24515

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=wire+mannequin&tag=googhydr-21&index=aps&hvadid=3223718739&ref=pd_sl_ir79aigro_b

http://www.shopfittings-ltd.co.uk/acatalog/display-busts.html?gclid=CLjrndr8u5oCFQWvkgod3jchcg

etc, google is our friend.

[Byker28i]

Wire frame mannequin and suspend using fishing line from the ceiling?

[specialman]

Wire frame mannequin and suspend using fishing line from the ceiling?
Exactly what we do at our mag for clothing shots. We have a wire frame and a full body, minus arms and head. If we have things like waders then we hang then using fishing line and stuff bubble wrap inside the legs to pad them out.

[68lbs]

etc, google is our friend.

Sorry, but one is a desktop wireframe, the Amazon ones are mostly ornamental, and the last link is for solid ones - one of which is exactly what we currently use. Thanks for Googling though. :)

[68lbs]

I've done a quick model test today... pics here (http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=134268).

Please take a look and comment if you have some time.

[TwentySixDays]

...Hacking apart mannequins doesn't work, as a lot of clothing is fitted so if you say chop off bits of mannequin around the neck/arms you get clearly visible tension creases in the fabric when it's shot...

There is a lot of discussion here but I think you are the closest with the hack off manikins.
All you need to do is support the garment where it is not held by the manikin.
If you take some double sided tape tape and stick one side to some card and the other side to the back of the areas that are unsupported you cand bend the card to hold those areas.
This may take a bit of practice but once you have master how much you need to support you will not see the transition.

With the waders, it's the same trick ... just some stiff wire stuck to the reverse side so you can been the straps to the position you want, along with the bubble wrap stuffing all ready suggested, will solve the problem.

Put up the right background and you shouldn't need any postprossing.

Hope that trigger some thoughts.

Looking forward to the next shots. (and the commision :lol:)

[TwentySixDays]

Suggestion No2...
As you have a long production run I believe it will be more cost effective to spending some time in setting up the studio and investing in equipment than in post-processing.

Note: Where I say back it is relative to the shooting position i.e. the unseen area behind the garment.

I would opt for polystyrene mannequin with a magnetically attached wall bracket at the back.
The position of the bracket is such that it is hidden behind the garment and the mannequin is 2/3 feet away from the backgound.
The bracket should be the same colour as the background, just incase you can't completely hide it.

Stick steel plates to the mannequin in the required position, back, front, side, etc.
These areas of the mannequin will need to be recessed so the plates are level with the profile.

You will also need some external supports to attach to the bracket.
These would be stuck/taped to the rear of the garments to hold the unsupported neck/arm shapes where you are shooting the inside areas.

Process:
Dress the mannequin.
Fix the mannequin to the wall.
Attach additional external and internal supports as required.
Sort the lighting.
Take the shot.

To reduce setup time do all the similar shots of similar garments in the same batch
(e.g. all the fronts of tee-shirts)

References:
Magnets that can bolt to the external wall bracket...
http://www.parkertools.co.uk/macros/Product.mac/Product?VisitorID=SW187KK8XSV&Status=guest&ProductNo=0595381&StockNo=0
You may need more than one on heavy clothing.

These may be too strong?...
http://www.first4magnets.com/super-strength-magnets-2-c.asp

This company will make polystyrene mannequins your specification so that you can have the unwanted areas removed.
You could also opt for sectioned mannequins so that you can remove parts like the top of the arms and/or above the bust line depending on the garments being shot...
http://www.polystyrenemodels.co.uk/polystyrene_models.html

Polystyrene also give you the opportunity to stick on/in additional wire supports.

Let me know what you think or if you need anymore info.

Stuart

[68lbs]

That sounds like a LOT of work setting up each shot.

Having had a further play around last week, I think we're going to go with live models. Cropping the head means that we can get away with using shop staff as and when the stock is delivered.

[inaneredstripe]

www.caranco.co.uk shopfittings world do a range of manakins at reasonable dosh.
you may be able to modify something to suit your purposes.
weve just bought some slatwall fittings from them.

[TwentySixDays]

That sounds like a LOT of work setting up each shot.
Having had a further play around last week, I think we're going to go with live models. Cropping the head means that we can get away with using shop staff as and when the stock is delivered.

I agree, getting the equipment and setting up the first couple shots of will take a little time may be half a day.
After that changing from one garment to the next will be a few minutes.
Using this method one person in the studio can take the shot and there should be no reason to then perform corrective post processing.

Taking the shots using the shop staff will involve a photographer, lighting, the girl/boy from the shop.
The shop staff will need to wear something smooth, no buckles, good figures, no bumps in the wrong places.
They will need to stand with hair tied up and arms out of the way and after shooting you will have to crop the images.

The one positive that I would put in is that using the shop staff will involve them in the products and they will probably have more incentive to sell them.

Personally I would way up the cost over the batch run and look at the quality and consitency of the shots before committing to one method or the other.

[ChrisBrock]

I've put together a PDF guide to creating the invisible mannequin look. It's a step by step instruction for creating it in Photoshop, so it may seem a little basic for the more experienced Photoshop user, but it may offer a little insight.

You can dowload it from my blog here:

http://www.chrisbrock.co.uk/blog/?p=197

Hope it help.

Chris

[Lomond Lad]

Holy thread revival......... :bonk:

[Parklife]

I've put together a PDF guide to creating the invisible mannequin look. It's a step by step instruction for creating it in Photoshop, so it may seem a little basic for the more experienced Photoshop user, but it may offer a little insight.

You can dowload it from my blog here:

http://www.chrisbrock.co.uk/blog/?p=197

Hope it help.

Chris

Thanks a million, had been racking my brains how to acheive this 'ghost mannequin' look, never thought about turning the garment inside out:bang:

[Byker28i]

I'd forgotten about this. I had to do some product shoot for a neighbours collection.

I shot the clothing on a white shops dummy we borrowed, against a white background. I shot the clothing as worn, then shot it again taped to the front of the dummy for the neckline and put the two layers together. Very little pp to remove the white dummy then.

I got the idea looking at the very first t-shirt picture of this thread (but forgot it was this thread).

[monacoblue]

I've put together a PDF guide to creating the invisible mannequin look. It's a step by step instruction for creating it in Photoshop, so it may seem a little basic for the more experienced Photoshop user, but it may offer a little insight.

You can dowload it from my blog here:

http://www.chrisbrock.co.uk/blog/?p=197

Hope it help.

Chris

Certainly Chris has it down :). Just look at the excellent result in his guide... it kind of speaks for it self. Great behind the scenes videos from photo shoots on his blog too. Thanks Chris for sharing :).

http://blog.chrisbrock.co.uk/?p=16

[jamesoliverstone]

What's with the one post wonders?

[monacoblue]

What's with the one post wonders?

Eheh... well everyone has to get started somewhere... true :)