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If you only had my kit, and someone enquired about a wedding -- what would you do?
I know it's the person behind the camera and so on, but I read so often that f/2.8 is so important and you need some really fast primes as often even f/2.8 isn't enough.
Have I got enough to feel confident about a wedding or would I need to ask to see the church prior to agreeing anything (or is this a given even with f/2.8)?
If I was to get a prime, what range would you suggest? I hear 85mm if good but as I'm on a 1.6 crop I'm guessing the 50L (or f/1.4) would be a good choice?
If you only had my kit, and someone enquired about a wedding -- what would you do?
Run a mile
then you go on about lenses..... but you only have the one camera
Run a mile then look back and run another mile :)
Welsh Dan
26-05-2009, 00:35
Having only taken shots as a guest at a wedding, I'd say run a mile, or be the second shooter alongside an experienced tog. Only then will you realise how hard it is to get a few keepers without interrupting the event.
I appreciate that but these people are not prepared to pay £2,500. In fact, they said their budget is £400 and I've already told them how low that is.
Where would my kit fail?
I have access to a 450D and a 400D that I could use for the day as a back-up in case it did fail.
Ignore my ability, where would my kit hold me back?
Flash In The Pan
26-05-2009, 00:50
Removed : Unnecessary and inflammatory comment
david1701
26-05-2009, 00:57
have a go in a church to see if your kit will cope, the 50d handles iso well, but you really don't wanna shoot the whole thing at iso 3200, which I was doing at f2.8 t'other day (not a wedding but candids at an evening do)
also if any one component of your kit fails what will you do, and I stress any, you've mentioned spare bodies but you only have one flashgun and one lens over 105mm
primes can be backups though.......
Removed : Unnecessary and inflammatory comment
Flash In The Pan
26-05-2009, 01:02
I appreciate that but these people are not prepared to pay £2,500. In fact, they said their budget is £400 and I've already told them how low that is.
For £400 I wouldn't be fretting about not having the right kit, in fact I wouldn't even be considering it. One thing I've learnt over the years is the people with the least to spend for this sort of thing expect the most for their money.
Flash In The Pan
26-05-2009, 01:05
You're getting very predictable and boring now, and you also take threads off-topic each and every time.
You mean a thread where you ask if, never having done a wedding before,you ask should charge someone money to ruin cover theirs?
Sounds like another great plan, I wish you all the success with it :thumbs:
Quite frankly, it's nothing to do with you and your opinion means nothing to me. You don't know the circumstances and being polite as possible, you know nothing about the situation what-so-ever.
I'm asking about the kit. I'm asking where I'd struggle and my understanding is it depends on the church, f/4 could be fine but the main thing to remember is to have back-ups of everything and be prepared.
Flash In The Pan
26-05-2009, 01:40
Like I said, good luck :)
You need to check the venue. If f/2.8 is vital then you are not best prepared.
But it's only a stop to f/4. I can't see that is going to be the biggest compromise you'll have to make for a budget wedding.
If I was doing weddings (and I'm not) I would address the occasional low light issue with a couple of primes. F/2.8 to f/4 might not be that much, but 1.4 to 4 is major. Sigma 30 1.4 is nice, and Canon 85 1.8, but you could do a heck of a lot with a 50 1.8 at very sensible money.
Harvey_nikon
26-05-2009, 03:42
all else fails, why not rent a lens for the day?
V8burble
26-05-2009, 04:44
all else fails, why not rent a lens for the day?
or three ;)
Tyke Tiler
26-05-2009, 06:24
One thing I've learnt over the years is the people with the least to spend for this sort of thing expect the most for their money.
So true, the penny pinchers are most likely the ones to be the most problematic afterwards.
Kryptix,
Seriously now, it's not just about the gear, it's about experience and knowing what to do if the circs are hardcore against you.
You can take a half decent photo, yes but can you whip up the goods in a s***-storm? How are your people skills, more to the point how are your people skills under pressure?
These folk paying you £400 sheets are going to expect you to deliver, do you know what their requirements are?
What are they expecting for that kind of money? Half day, full day? portraits only?
Anyway, bottom line is your going to do what you want to do.
In all of my 30 years as a wedding photographer I have never had anyone approach me telling me they had £xx to spend, they usually ask me how much.
For years most photographers used just a basic medium format camera and a standard 80mm lens. Where you are struggling presumably is that you do not have anything to show the couple as far as wedding photography is concerned. In your instance I would explain this to the couple, offer to do the wedding on that understanding and then work like hell to get a pro photographer to take you on a few weddings and show you the ropes or spend some money on day courses, Bret Harkness does one for £285
stew
trapper501
26-05-2009, 06:51
as a customer rather than a tog I think the management of the process and the people skills are what makes and breaks the day.
when we looked for a photographer (years ago and before digital) one concern uppermost in our mind was we didn't want the photographer spoiling the day for us and our guests.
I've been to weddings where the photographer was simply obnoxious and upset everybody.
The best ones seem to get great shots with the minimum of fuss and still allowing guests to take their own shots. Simple things like asking the Bride and Groom what group shots they would actually like seem to me to be obvious things that some professionals don't always bother with.
To an extent you are spot on trapper but the photographer still needs to use his experience to ensure they get what they really want rather than what they think they want.
trapper501
26-05-2009, 06:57
To an extent you are spot on trapper but the photographer still needs to use his experience to ensure they get what they really want rather than what they think they want.
Yes, I go along with that, again all down to people skills.
To an extent you are spot on trapper but the photographer still needs to use his experience to ensure they get what they really want rather than what they think they want.
Oh, how I get that!
Like one of mine who insisted she wanted "reportage" and not stuffy posed shots who proceeded to fill an album of the formal group shots I insisted she list for me! :lol:
Yep, people skills are the most important aspect, I agree. People will spot a really bad photograph, will possibly not really appreciate a fantastic set because they will not recognise them but will spot poor people skills every time.
I do a lot of gypsy and Indian weddings. I am trusted not to rip them off, to work extremely quickly and in the case of the gypsy weddings to do the men's ties up prior to each shot. The first time I did this I wondered what the reaction would be as they all thought they wanted the knot lose but as I said their wives and mums would moan like hell when they saw the pics after the wedding if their ties were undone lol. I am sure thats why I get their work, I help them get an easy time with their wives lol lol
stew
KRYPTIX, HOW CONFIDENT ARE YOU THAT YOU CAN DO IT??
pchidell
26-05-2009, 07:39
As fletch5 said, if you're confident, go for it!
I'd sell you're "Sigma (ugh!) 10-20" and get a 50 f/1.4
Good luck! :thumbs:
Looks like he has abandoned his thread.
I don't think this thread had anything to do with weddings. Clearly, he has caught the lens purchase bug. All you good minded people are telling him things that he patently doesn't want to hear.
John
jolsterj
26-05-2009, 08:15
Another wedding thread gone downhill. We are supposed to be helpful on here are'nt we?
Ok maybe we should think about what and how we say things before we press the ''reply'' button.
I for one am losing a bit of confidence reading about what I should or should'nt do....and what I should or should'nt use regarding equipment.
So come on here less and less.
It is becoming a ''look what I bought' forum.
Sorry rant over.
Tyke Tiler
26-05-2009, 08:21
Ok maybe we should think about what and how we say things before we press the ''reply'' button.
I think the proverb 'Practise What You Preach' is remarkably pertinent.
It is becoming a ''look what I bought' forum.
Oh dear, then there's nothing really left for you here, might as well leave then. :wave:
RichardtheSane
26-05-2009, 09:42
The topic - it is this way -->
Kryptix, I think flech nailed it. Equipment aside, are you confident you can go there, manage a crowd of folk into some sort of order and pull the shots off? If the answer is yes then I agree, go for it. You can beg, borrow and hire equipment but confidence you have to have enough of it before you start.
Are they friends? If so you could do the wedding for free and make your moeny off the prints. If they are Joe Public, run in the manner Kipax described.
Radiohead
26-05-2009, 10:28
The original question was, would you do it with the kit the OP has.
You could do it, yes, but it feels a bit slow to me. But if you're using flash a lot less of a problem.
stephen ley
26-05-2009, 10:36
Another wedding thread gone downhill. We are supposed to be helpful on here are'nt we?
Ok maybe we should think about what and how we say things before we press the ''reply'' button.
I for one am losing a bit of confidence reading about what I should or should'nt do....and what I should or should'nt use regarding equipment.
So come on here less and less.
It is becoming a ''look what I bought' forum.
Sorry rant over.
Hear Hear, well said that woman :clap: :clap:
stephen ley
26-05-2009, 10:42
Kryptix
I think the lenses will be fine, you will need a flash and certainly a back up camera or two. A second person shooting with you as well to cover all the angles.
When I shot my first as the front man last year I found it really useful going to the rehersal, took my camera spoke to the Minister about what he was happy with and such. I had my wife take the back up shots and between us (we used 4 cameras, 2 Canon 400Ds and 2 Nikon D80s) but the end results after processing were excellent.
kiteninja
26-05-2009, 12:02
I would plan out what you want to do first, what kind of shots you want to get then ask them what they want work around this, build it into your plan. Scout out the venue and find out how you are going to get the shots as in portraits, candids etc.. then talk to the minister ask if they mind u using a flash or the click of the camera during parts etc...
Remember the 3 Ps, Planning, Preperation & ...[ok so its only 2 Ps]
Then Ignore everything that people are saying as your going to do what you like anyway.
Radiohead
26-05-2009, 12:06
Kryptix
I think the lenses will be fine, you will need a flash and certainly a back up camera or two. A second person shooting with you as well to cover all the angles.
And for £400 that'll be mostly wiped out with a flash, let alone a backup or two.
And you don't need a second shooter.
Looks like he has abandoned his thread.
I don't think this thread had anything to do with weddings. Clearly, he has caught the lens purchase bug. All you good minded people are telling him things that he patently doesn't want to hear.
John
I haven't 'abandoned' the thread -- I simply haven't been online for a few hours. Christ.
And no, you're right -- it's not what I wanted to hear. I wanted to hear about equipment (which is why I posted it in Talk Equipment).
I've read the above over and over again in various wedding threads.
As fletch5 said, if you're confident, go for it!
I'd sell you're "Sigma (ugh!) 10-20" and get a 50 f/1.4
Good luck! :thumbs:
I've just ordered a 50L. :)
Thanks for those who did reply to what I asked.
it's not what I wanted to hear. I wanted to hear about equipment (which is why I posted it in Talk Equipment).
I didnt notice that to be honest.. I use the NEW POSTS button on the menu and saw the thread.. I didnt clock that it was in equipment.. and as you say that does throw a different light on it:)
You have ordered a £1,200 lens for a £400 wedding! :eek:
Good luck with it :thinking:
You have ordered a £1,200 lens for a £400 wedding! :eek:
Good luck with it :thinking:
Where did I say it was just for the wedding? :thinking:
Where did I say it was just for the wedding? :thinking:
Seriously mate, before you commit to that fabulous 50 1.2 L, consider that you could get a Sigma 30 1.4, 50mm 1.4 and 85 1.8 all for that money. Two of them are in For Sale now.
Do you really need half a flippin stop that much :eek:
* You could always paint a red ring on them ;)
* You could always paint a red ring on them ;)
or a red elastic band? :)
gumbo-67
26-05-2009, 14:36
ok quick question... would any of you shoot a wedding using a Nikon D50 with the 18-55mm kit lens and that is all the kit you can use.....????????? (and no i am Not)
ok quick question... would any of you shoot a wedding using a Nikon D50 with the 18-55mm kit lens and that is all the kit you can use.....????????? (and no i am Not)
Depends what results they're after. Some people really don't care and would be happy with compact pictures. Other people pay £3,000 for the day and want the very best.
You have to judge the situation really, but I'm guessing a big no.
ok quick question... would any of you shoot a wedding using a Nikon D50 with the 18-55mm kit lens and that is all the kit you can use.....????????? (and no i am Not)
No.. and thats not based on the camera or the lens.. thats based on only having one camera and one lens of any make or description because you ahve no backup.. Important shoots (as a wedding is) should have backup equipment.. doesnt matter if its a wedding or a sporting event.. if its a one off shoot and you only have the one go at it.. then be prepared ..
kiteninja
26-05-2009, 14:45
I want your job Kryptix :P would love to order a 50L just for giggles sake lol.
Sorry to be so negative, but why do you have to buy everything L?
I am sure the lens mentioned earlier (50mm 1.4, 1.8, Sigma 30mm 1.4) would be fine, afterall they are primes so they are going to be sharp.
I would understand if you were a professional and needed the durability but from what I can tell from your posts you haven't even been doing photography a year.
I think you have more money then sense.
Anyway, back to the wedding, of course kit is important, but do you think you have the skill to do it? What if they aren't happy with the pictures you take? Do you have professional indemnity insurance?
A lot of questions you need to ask yourself before you consider doing a wedding.
kiteninja
26-05-2009, 14:46
ok quick question... would any of you shoot a wedding using a Nikon D50 with the 18-55mm kit lens and that is all the kit you can use.....????????? (and no i am Not)
I shot my brothers wedding with a 350D, 18-55 & a nifty fifty.
Tbh it depends what they want, all the shots turned out fine and they made quite a nice album out of them :).
Sorry to be so negative, but why do you have to buy everything L?
Having used both none canon and then canon L lenses (short and long) I can safely say that canon lenses produce far better quality pictures .. and thats the best reason going :)
Sorry to be so negative, but why do you have to buy everything L?
Because I want to... I don't know why that effects you?
I am sure the lens mentioned earlier (50mm 1.4, 1.8, Sigma 30mm 1.4) would be fine, afterall they are primes so they are going to be sharp.
Would you prefer those or a 50L? Exactly...
I would understand if you were a professional and needed the durability but from what I can tell from your posts you haven't even been doing photography a year.
Got my first SLR 3 months ago.
I think you have more money then sense.
If I sold all my gear I'd get a lot of it back anyway. I'd only loose a few hundred so photography is a good hobby.
ok quick question... would any of you shoot a wedding using a Nikon D50 with the 18-55mm kit lens and that is all the kit you can use.....????????? (and no i am Not)
Absolutely it could be done. With a decent flash, you could get a very seviceable job done. Why shouldn't you?
It would just close down a few of the more creative options, but for the majority of shots it would be just fine. Indistinguishable from the finest L images.
Good wedding photography has got relatively little to do with equipment or cutting edge photographic technique. Reliable kit, solid techniqiue, and outstanding people skills will deliver an exceptional job. Same with most commercial photography TBH. Much more about people and personality.
Having used both none canon and then canon L lenses (short and long) I can safely say that canon lenses produce far better quality pictures .. and thats the best reason going :)
I can understand you saying that, you're a professional and you need the best quality glass, but I seriously don't understand why amateurs need L glass?
Radiohead
26-05-2009, 14:52
It's their money. That's enough reason.
I can understand you saying that, you're a professional and you need the best quality glass, but I seriously don't understand why amateurs need L glass?
If they're prepared to pay for the IQ then why not?
That's like saying a non-racing driver shouldn't own a Ferrari.
It's their money. That's enough reason.
Fair enough. I'm out of this thread, don't want any further conflict. Sorry to take it off-topic!
I can understand you saying that, you're a professional and you need the best quality glass, but I seriously don't understand why amateurs need L glass?
Same reason.. As an amature you want to do the best you can.. be the best you can and produce the best pictures you can. I know what you mean thouhg.. I know I couldn't afford all my L glass when it was purely hobby. But I still wanted it then :)
In defense of Kryptix - not that he needs it ;) - I don't know why people get upset about expensive equipment (or amateurs shooting weddings for that matter). You don't need a degree in photography to want nice stuff.
One of the few things I regret about crop format is that EF-S lenses are often better than EF in shorter focal lengths, which means I haven't got any wider L lenses. But if you're on full frame Canon, then L lenses are better optically, they have a higher spec, and they are superbly built. Apart from anything else, they are just really nice to use and to own.
For me, the design compromises mean they're not the best on crop format, but if that floats your boat, I don't have any problem with that at all. In fact, good for you, and good luck :)
gumbo-67
26-05-2009, 15:49
Depends what results they're after. Some people really don't care and would be happy with compact pictures. Other people pay £3,000 for the day and want the very best.
You have to judge the situation really, but I'm guessing a big no.
ok in a nut shell the tog cost £1800 apx.. and all he had was the D50 and the 18-55.. and that is it. No flash not another thing oh sorry he had a big bag to carry it all.....
oh well these things happen and it wasn't me and not my wedding... i do know what the pic's are like and i know what the B&G think of them...i just feel sad that they paid that much when there are good guys on here and else where that would have cost about the same and done a better job. and i knw it is not all about what kit you have but i thinkit was one of those days you had to be there to understand.
thanks for reading
Put it like this, I've spent over £5k on my gear and I'm reluctant to do it. I still think my gear will hold me back.
That's putting all skills aside...
how the hell you afford all these lense Luke, thought you was jobless, or have you got one now?
wish i could afford to spend and spend on camera gear :(
foodpoison
26-05-2009, 16:17
I wonder what it is with people...
They seem to condemn success!
I remember when Gary first joined the forum, I myself thought he was taking the p*** because he bought a s*** load of camera gear and was naturally talented at photography.
I guess it must be something in every hobby, but when, back in the day, I rode trails, my mates condemned me for having a BEAUTIFUL bike.
I paid every penny of it myself because I had 100% disposable income.
and it was gorgeous to ride.
Now, having said that Kryptix, your last comment is, hrmm, how should I put it, stupid.
Your gear won't hold you back, if anything you'll hold your gear back.
A professional and a talented photographer could shoot a wedding beautifully, regardless of whether they have 2x 350d's, a 55-250 and an 18-55, or 2x 1DSmk3's, 2x 580ex's a 24-70L and a 70-200/2.8 IS.
Saying your gear will hold you back, is, I'm sorry, extremely ignorant.
how the hell you afford all these lense Luke, thought you was jobless, or have you got one now?
wish i could afford to spend and spend on camera gear :(
Haven't worked for 7 months now, and then it was only for a month as I was out for over a year with a bike related injury. I earn off photography but most of it is just through savings. I'm not into holidays and so on, so I spend less elsewhere... I buy some of my stuff 2nd hand so I should make the same back when I sell it.
lukewoodford
26-05-2009, 16:19
Its ok the spend your money on gear but I do think it would have been a MUCH better option to get the 50 1.4
Haven't worked for 7 months now, and then it was only for a month as I was out for over a year with a bike related injury. I earn off photography but most of it is just through savings. I'm not into holidays and so on, so I spend less elsewhere... I buy some of my stuff 2nd hand so I should make the same back when I sell it.
:thumbs:
i dont go on holidays, but smoke & thats a money eater..
i guess me having a kid dont help either, he eat's most of my funds, but wouldn't change it for anything :love:
Its ok the spend your money on gear but I do think it would have been a MUCH better option to get the 50 1.4
I have the f/1.8 too so if I'm not that impressed with the 50L I'll sell both and get the f/1.4. I really want a 100-400L or a fast long prime so I think it'd be wise to get the f/1.4 too. We'll see if I fall in love with the f/1.2. :)
:thumbs:
i dont go on holidays, but smoke & thats a money eater..
i guess me having a kid dont help either, he eat's most of my funds, but wouldn't change it for anything :love:
No kids, no smoking and no drinking... No (illegal) drugs also.
Oh and I'm also not allowed to ride/drive at the moment and that used to absolutely cain my funds. I'm a proper petrol head so my entire income was chucked into 'em!
same, in the sence of a petrol head as you should know from being on cs ;)
hoeping to give up smoking when im back at work off the sick, next week, so should have more funds to throw at car/camera stuff
anyway, i know nothing about lens's for wedding, so cant help on that :lol:
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