UPDATED AFTER 6000 FRAMES: Canon EOS-7D Initial Review

[grumpybadger]

OK. Well, as I said last night, I had a play with my 7D that I collected from Digital Depot yesterday lunchtime. First impressions are very good. Here's a quick review so far.

1. Look and feel
The 7D definitely feels a bit more substantial than the 50D that its replaced. It's not much bigger but has an extra ridge on the back that seems to help it fit the hand better. The eye-cup is a touch larger and more like the one on my 1DsII - presumably the bigger viewfinder needs a bigger eye-cup.

One of the big revelations for me is the shutter button. It is so controllable. When I had a 1D MkII, I used to have to leave it in low speed mode or I would always fire off two shots at a time. The new button on the 7D offers the control to leave the camera on 8fps and still take single shots when I need to.

The only negative is the same issue that I've always had with the 5D and xxD cameras that pulling it out of a bag can cause the control knob top left to turn to a different mode so you have to remember to check it. Perhaps I need to go back to the insulation tape holding the control like I did on my 5D.

2. Viewfinder
The viewfinder is superb. It is significantly clearer than the 50D and exactly what I was hoping for. I also like the new grid you can turn on or off in the viewfinder. I have a grid screen on my 1DsII which I find very useful for leveling horizons and to have the option when I want on the 7D is great.

3. AF Performance
Although I haven't had chance to test in anger yet (planes against sky are hardly a challenge) it feels impressive and did in the garden this morning too. I am co-leading a bird of prey photography workshop next Saturday and so should be able to comment better then. The 50D really struggled a couple of weeks ago so we will have to wait and see.

But, it feels like the AF is accurate and tracks well on planes (the results so far confirm this) and it is certainly quicker than my 1DsII.

It also seemed to handover between AF points and seemed to be more sophisticated than the 1Ds. Again, only time and experience will truly tell.

4. Metering Performance
Can't really comment yet as I was running manual metering off bushes so nothing challenging.

5. Options
It's a complex camera and I will have to take time to learn it. Only really played with the different AF modes a little bit so far.

6. Image Quality
I know there are loads of tests but for me the real proof will be in what I take images of.

Firstly, 100% crop on a decent lens (500/4) shows good resolution and although high ISO looks reasonably noisy at the pixel level, it takes NR well showing the noise is well distributed and on a full screen image where pixel smoothing/averaging is used the quality really is good. I reckon it's at least a match for my full frame 1DsII. I need to do a Noise Ninja profile and play more but again it looks pretty promising.

7. Other info
It works with Lightroom 2.5 although it is not on the official list of supported cameras. However, only a beta camera profile is available so I would expect 2.6 to offer better support.

8. Conclusions
So far, so good. Pretty impressed although need to take more images. Really feels like it could hit the spot as a 1D-lite, in the same way as a 5DII is a 1Ds-lite.

So, an image...

http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/gallery/data/3478/IMG_01512.jpg (http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=68539)

EOS 7D, 500 f/4L IS, tripod, gimbal, ISO 1250, f/4.5, 1/250s

As you can see, it was getting proper dark - this was taken at about 7pm last night.

And a 100% crop

http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/gallery/data/3478/IMG_0151-2.jpg (http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=68538)

I don't want to get into a pixel peeping war here just want to provide people with information.

Yes a D700/D3 will be better but I wanted a crop sensor on this camera. Remember, this is a 100% crop from a 18Mpx image. I am very confident this will give a fine quality A4 print and Noise Ninja would further help things along.

Hope this is useful to some and I will add more over the coming days/weeks as I get more exposure to the camera. I would also encourage other early adopters to do the same.

Paul

[jontucker]

Good info :thumbs: I'd like to know if the raw format is the same as the 50D and/or if Aperture 2 will support it without being updated. If not, I think I'm going to wait until they release an update before I take the plunge but from what I've seen so far I am chomping to get one of these!

[Ziploc]

Intresting quick review.

[specialman]

Results look great. It's definitely the camera –*on paper anyway*–*that would bring me back to Canon, simply because it's a crop sensor or epic megapixel proportions.

How are the function buttons on the top plate? I always found canons t be really badly positioned and fiddly especially on the 20D/30D body; have Canon made these a bit more substantial for quick use?

The noise levels at ISO 1250 are great and the detail's good too.

Mucho impressed....

[grumpybadger]

How are the function buttons on the top plate? I always found canons t be really badly positioned and fiddly especially on the 20D/30D body; have Canon made these a bit more substantial for quick use?


Never had a 20D or 30D but they are different in feel to the 50D. Not sure they are better, need to try it a bit more first...

[daugirdas]

Is it any good tracking movement towards camera (ie. at 100-200mm somebody walking or jogging towards you)?

How much bigger is the VF? Is it 1Ds big or about the same as 50D?

[grumpybadger]

Is it any good tracking movement towards camera (ie. at 100-200mm somebody walking or jogging towards you)?
Don't know. Only used it at an airshow so far.

How much bigger is the VF? Is it 1Ds big or about the same as 50D?

VF is not 1Ds big but bigger than 50D. There's a picture of it relative to a 1DsIII here (http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canoneos7d/page5.asp)

[Grendel]

Nice review Paul :clap: It certainly looks like a great body from all I've read so good to see that your initial findings back this up. I'll be watching out to see what results you get tracking BIF. It's the potential AF performance that would make me sell my 50D for one of these :)

[grumpybadger]

That was the "paper promise" that made me change Paul. I'll obviously keep you informed and if you want to have a play sometime, then would be great to meet up again.

Initial results are promising enough that even Sue "Queen of the 40D for BIF" may upgrade!

[EdBray]

Thanks for the info, just got to get a bit extra money together now to fund the purchase.

[Grendel]

That was the "paper promise" that made me change Paul. I'll obviously keep you informed and if you want to have a play sometime, then would be great to meet up again.

Initial results are promising enough that even Sue "Queen of the 40D for BIF" may upgrade!

Definitely Paul. We need to fix a date :)

[Paul Philpott]

Paul thanks for the quick review. I am even more enthusiastic about the 7D now!!:thumbs:

[coldpenguin]

It is looking good. Have you cropped that initial image? The 100% crop appears to be a large proportion (given the 800px requirement on the forum)

[cosmix3]

Must agree with most of what you said Paul if not all, took mine out in anger for the first time today, went down to Watlington to shoot the Red Kites, just about to go through my shots, but would say the AF seamed to preform very well, most of my problems were user error :bang:

[kluen]

Thanks for taking the time to do this, has been a very useful read!

[metaldud]

Nice read still to expensive to buy for me.

[Raymond Lin]

7D doesn't replace the 50D.....its not on sale twice as much.....

[grumpybadger]

It is looking good. Have you cropped that initial image? The 100% crop appears to be a large proportion (given the 800px requirement on the forum)

Initial image is full frame (5184 px wide, resized) and 2nd image is 100% crop at 787px wide.

7D doesn't replace the 50D.....its not on sale twice as much.....

Thanks for your concern but as this was a personal review I can definitely assure you that my 7D has replaced my 50D...

[coldpenguin]

As far as I am concerned, the 7d is a replacement for the 50d. My aim was to get a better camera (ISO is lacking for me in the 400d), and my options basically were 50d, or 50d replacement (i.e. 7d). The 60d, if it comes out in February, will be too late for me. I have pre-ordered a 7d, and am taking the hit for being an 'early adopter' because otherwise I would be spending out ~£250 in hiring equipment I would want to use instead of the 7d for an upcoming event.

Thank you very much for your write-up Mr GrumpyBadger. Although some might consider it brief, I reckon it fills in the areas where people are concerned going on Canon's past releases.
Given that the crop is an extra third of a pixel each side of the 40/400d, that [low] level of distortion is good.

[CT]

Thanks Paul! :thumbs: I should be having a play by Tuesday morning.

[malc1]

3. AF Performance
Although I haven't had chance to test in anger yet (planes against sky are hardly a challenge) it feels impressive and did in the garden this morning too. I am co-leading a bird of prey photography workshop next Saturday and so should be able to comment better then. The 50D really struggled a couple of weeks ago so we will have to wait and see.

Very useful review, no really bad points, looking forward to hearing more experiences. By the way, where is the bird of prey workshop next saturday?

[u8myufo]

Thanks for the info Paul, was the launch of the 7D done to coincide with me cashing my pensions in I wonder? :naughty: BTW is it possible to grab a frame from the HD recording?

[grumpybadger]

Thanks Paul! :thumbs: I should be having a play by Tuesday morning.

Enjoy Cedric. I look forward to seeing some results...


Very useful review, no really bad points, looking forward to hearing more experiences. By the way, where is the bird of prey workshop next saturday?

So far it looks pretty compelling. As I say, I really want to push it a bit harder before giving it the full thumbs up! Workshop is at the British School of Falconry, Shuttleworth Park in Beds.

Thanks for the info Paul, was the launch of the 7D done to coincide with me cashing my pensions in I wonder? :naughty: BTW is it possible to grab a frame from the HD recording?

Now you're asking. When I know how I'll happily give it a go but still learning my way around video. I've captured a couple of streams but don't know what to do with them yet!

[Rocket58]

Thanks for the info Paul, was the launch of the 7D done to coincide with me cashing my pensions in I wonder? :naughty: BTW is it possible to grab a frame from the HD recording?

If its the same as a 5D MKII then you can play the video in Canons zoombrowser software. Pause the film where required, then use frame forward or back buttons to get to the frame you want. Hit file, save as still image. on the 5DII it save as a 1920 x 1080 image.

The 7D is probably the same to grab a frame.

Cheers

Ron

[grumpybadger]

Thanks Ron. I'll give it a try once I have the Canon software installed on my PC.

[Amp34]

What is the ISO performance like compared to the 40/50D? That crop looked noisier than I expected TBH so was just wondering how much better it would be over my 400D.

[grumpybadger]

Sorry, don't know. Have never had a 40D and the 50D I only had for 2 months and didn't try high ISO as I didn't need to.

Remember the crop is 100% pixel view from 18Mpx. I'm certainly happy with printing up to A4 from ISO1600, which is all I intend to use.

[Bertha37]

Thanks for the info Paul, was the launch of the 7D done to coincide with me cashing my pensions in I wonder? :naughty: BTW is it possible to grab a frame from the HD recording?

Looks like the best of both worlds going off this (http://www.usa.canon.com/dlc/controller?act=GetArticleAct&articleID=3050&productID=329&articleTypeID=5) article...

"With EOS Movie on the EOS 7D, however, if you press the shutter button fully during actual video recording, the camera will take a separate, still image file whatever still image quality setting is currently in effect on the camera’s menu. In other words, if you’ve previously set the camera to shoot full-resolution RAW image files, that’s what your still image will be, even if shot during live video recording.
This ability of the EOS 7D to shoot full HD video at 24 fps or 30 fps, and yet be able to shoot an eighteen million pixel still image whenever you desire, opens many creative doors — even for video producers, let alone traditional still shooters who want to add video to their “bag of tricks”."


Want one, want one now ! :cool:

[PanamaMan]

Another honest sounding initial review here:

http://www.canonrumors.com/canon-eos-7d-mini-review/

Mine arrived this morning, aiming for good workout at Old Warden on Sunday...

[Raymond Lin]

Looks like the best of both worlds going off this (http://www.usa.canon.com/dlc/controller?act=GetArticleAct&articleID=3050&productID=329&articleTypeID=5) article...

"With EOS Movie on the EOS 7D, however, if you press the shutter button fully during actual video recording, the camera will take a separate, still image file whatever still image quality setting is currently in effect on the camera’s menu. In other words, if you’ve previously set the camera to shoot full-resolution RAW image files, that’s what your still image will be, even if shot during live video recording.
This ability of the EOS 7D to shoot full HD video at 24 fps or 30 fps, and yet be able to shoot an eighteen million pixel still image whenever you desire, opens many creative doors — even for video producers, let alone traditional still shooters who want to add video to their “bag of tricks”."


Want one, want one now ! :cool:

That feature is not new, its the same feature carried over from the 5Dii, just not the 24fps that's all. And if they didn't implment that then i would be mighty peed off.

[jontucker]

That feature is not new, its the same feature carried over from the 5Dii, just not the 24fps that's all. And if they didn't implment that then i would be mighty peed off.

It's just a shame that the video 'stops' for 1 sec while you take a still.

[Orville]

Would appreciate opinions on the new EF-S 18-135mm lens from anyone who has purchased the "kit" version.

[coldpenguin]

Grumpy, when your camera auto-focuses/focus confirms, or selecting a new AF point, does the whole screen light up a light red?
I am finding with the VF grid display set to on, looking through the viewfinder at a darker scene, it is difficult to see the scene

[CT]

Grumpy, when your camera auto-focuses/focus confirms, or selecting a new AF point, does the whole screen light up a light red?

Very briefly you mean as focus is confirmed?Yes it seems to - only in Single Shot AF mode though. It doesn't do it in Servo mode which I use most of the time.


I am finding with the VF grid display set to on, looking through the viewfinder at a darker scene, it is difficult to see the scene

I find the grid display makes the viewfinder a bit busy for me so I've turned it off. I can see where it woild be good for some scenes though

[coldpenguin]

I was thinking more of manual AF point selection, the whole viewfinder kinda goes red.
Guess it is something I will have to get used to.
Thanks for the confirmation

[POAH]

100% crop shows pretty bad artifacts.

[CT]

Grumpy, when your camera auto-focuses/focus confirms, or selecting a new AF point, does the whole screen light up a light red?

OK I've got this sussed now. You only get the red light in Single Shot AF Mode - Not in Servo.

Go to Custom Function 3 - 8 (VF Display Illiuination) and select 'Disable' - no more red light.

[coldpenguin]

Kinda the opposite of what I was looking for! I don't mind the red when the system shows the points in use/focus confirm. That is a lot duller. What I am used to, is looking through the view finder and then selecting the point I want to use. (press-hold zoom/focus button and turn dial). I am finding the red in that situation very red, and obscuring dark scenes. I think I am going to just have to live with it.

[CT]

Kinda the opposite of what I was looking for! I don't mind the red when the system shows the points in use/focus confirm. That is a lot duller. What I am used to, is looking through the view finder and then selecting the point I want to use. (press-hold zoom/focus button and turn dial). I am finding the red in that situation very red, and obscuring dark scenes. I think I am going to just have to live with it.

Ah... I see what you mean. I can't say it bugs me, but I don't see a way to disable that.

[CT]

Although.... have a look at swag 72's tip in the 7D Hints And Tips Thread which puts AF point selection directly onto the joystick. I think it may solve your problem.

[coldpenguin]

That helps, thanks (now all I have to do is remember to use it differently)

[adrian5127]

Have you been to your bird of prey shoot?? Very interested in how the autofocus performed.

Thanks

Adrian

[grumpybadger]

OK. Bit of a thread revival this but I'm about 2 1/2 months and 6000 shots into the 7D so I think now is a good time for an update.

This is a very good camera in my opinion. To the point where my 1DsII hasn't actually been used at all in the last 6 weeks. Don't get me wrong, it still has a place and I think the choice of FF and APS-C 17ish Mpx cameras is a nice option to have! But, the lower weight of the 7D means that it is used a lot more unless I am settling down somewhere for the day and not moving around or if I want to shoot landscapes.

The picture quality from the 7D is very good, when coupled with good glass. I am very happy with the response. I think the 1Ds has the edge still, certainly at low ISO but it is pretty close.

I was initially struggling with the AF on the 7D for birds in flight and I have to say, I haven't overcome that problem yet. Not because I'm struggling, just that I haven't really had another opportunity to push at that again. I hope to get across to Gigrin Farm again sometime soon and will take both bodies and try to run a back to back test.

However, for the more static or slow moving subjects it is superb. I spent Saturday at Donna Nook, mainly taking pictures of seals in the surf. This is tough for an AF system to cope with as you have spray coming up, moving water and the subject. And wet seals are not the easiest things to focus on anyway. So, I popped the 7D into the new "spot" AF mode and gave it a go.

Out of over 600 images on the day, only 11 suffered from focus errors. To me, that is stunning and certainly better than the 1Ds would manage. The other benefit at Donna Nook was the crop factor, meaning I could take my 400DO and not my 500. The 400DO and 7D is half the weight (!) of the 1Ds and 500. For that slog back up hill across the salt marshes at the end of a long session, that made a real difference.

There are a couple of images here (http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=185036) which highlight the AF with the seals in the water.

So, am I keeping the 7D? Yes, absolutely. And I haven't even thought about trying video yet!

Am I keeping the 1DsII? Yes, also. Sometimes the wider field of view is very useful for wildlife and it also makes a stunning landscapes camera. Also, I know how to get solid bird in flight shots from it and I'm still not there with the 7D.

Am I buying a 1DIV? Not in a hurry. Much as it is nice camera on paper, I'm not convinced that it offers me personally value for money. In fact, I've just spent my 1DIV fund on a 400DO, something much longer lasting and more use to me!

Hope that helps if people are still wondering about this camera. I will try to update the thread again at some point as I make new discoveries.

Paul

[CT]

That's pretty much my findings Paul although I still haven't done any serious BIF shots either. Gigrin would be a very good test I'd say. The last time I shot there was with a 1DMK2n and the 100-400L - filling the frame reasonably was a problem so pretty substantial crops were the order of the day. The 7D should improve things a lot.

400 DO - very nice - jammy git! ;) There's a lady whose bird shots I greatly admire who produces some stunning images with a 400 DO.

[grumpybadger]

I've found 500 on full frame pretty good at Gigrin although I sometimes run 700. Reckon the 7D and the 400DO should be about bang on.

The DO is a cracking lens. I had one before and sold it to fund the 500. I always said I'd get another when funds permitted and deciding I didn't want a 1DIV and the availability of a suitable used on on Ebay sealed it for me.

[pauld]

Still waiting for mine to arrive and had been reading about focus issues on POTN but this is very encouraging... thanks for the update..coffee break now over...