Picked up my new camera today....a GF1

[Diego Garcia]

It did not take me long decide which replacement camera to buy now that my DSLR kit bag has been despatched to pastures new. In fact I had concluded that the Panasonic GF1 was going the be the camera of choice for me a couple of weeks back, as I mulled over the decision to sell kit on. I had considered the G11 but the distortion of the lens on the G10 (http://petetileytitanimages.blogspot.com/2009/05/canon-says-just-buy-it.html) put me off and the S90, Canons supposed LX3 (http://petetileytitanimages.blogspot.com/2009/03/dslr-and-compact-cameratwo-in-bed.html) competitor is nothing more than plastic in my eyes and in my hands. So, when the GF1 became available I decided that it would be my 'new toy'. There are a few reasons for this. Firstly, I adore the LX3, but I did write about how awkward the camera is in manual control and of course the fact it is all electronic. But, picture wise, the LX3 was and still is the first camera in compact guise that I had seen take pictures of SLR quality with good tone, detail and geometry which bodes well for the GF1. Further inspection reveals a pocket rocket; a small compact but super quick body with dual focusing options and stylish looks that compliment what is in effect the dearest compact I would likely spend money on.

Stand alone, the GF1 has all the boxes ticked. Great optical performance with fast aperture telecentric lenses for great geometry and corner performance. Also, the one thing I constantly talk about when I teach or in the least advise people is perpendicular shooting where you stay flat to your subject, thus givng excellent compression and importantly, with a 4/3rds chip set, great off centre resolution should you decide to print big. In simple terms a telecentric lens sits right over the sensor thus resulting in no corner drop off. The closest thing to this currently I suppose is DX and EF-S lenses from Nikon and Canon, but they still cant compete with the nice lines of a 4/3rds system....

I have mentioned this before but it is worth noting that Olympus came up with the concept of 4/3rds way back in 1994. Chief engineers foresaw the problems that a 3:2 chip set would throw up regards barrel distortion and pin cushion and the fact is that if we took side by side photos of lamp posts running along a street, then the 4/3rds system will trump everything, right up to and including cameras such as the 5d2, D3 and D3x et-al. To me, the only company currently addressing the issues the modern SLR face are Sony who are looking at ways of flipping the sensor ala its compact cameras and creating new high pass filters and glass to combat all of the afore mentioned problems. The interesting thing is that a cameras filter and sensor is not actually flat. Film of course was, but the DSLR sensor is a mass of ridges and valleys of which light can and does get trapped in thus creating dark corners, poor geometry and distortion as it tries to 'bend the light'. To put it simply, the GF1 catches light at right angles and simply works. Oddly, in certain situations the telecentric performance renders the camera as a mini tilt and shift piece of kit, which is nice. Historically, Olympus, Pentax and Konica Minolta often changed the goal posts with invention, namely 4/3rds, image stabilisation, pentaprism, dust cleaning but sadly in the West poor marketing and sales has seen Canon and Nikon taking pole positions and often lets face it, tipping a nod of thanks to the three aforementioned camera companies as they go onto implement technology into their cameras and lenses.

Of course, I am aware that there are compromises and I bought this camera more than aware of the issues it may throw up. Slow refresh rate in dark situations, average high ISO performance but all of these things are rendered moot when you consider the fact that I no longer have to carry or consider carrying a DLSR out.

Build wise I love it. Classic piano black finish with a real quality feel and some easy to navigate menus and options. In camera processing is superb and I will look at JPEG over RAW in the coming weeks if this helps expedite processing. It has all of the usual pseudo menus such as portrait, night mode on board, which I will also look at but my main port of call will be aperture variable due to the fast glass.

The 20mm F/1.7 is a lens reminiscent of days gone by. With a working focal length of 40mm on the 2 x 4/3rds chip set it is endemic of the classic range finder focal lengths of around 35mm-40mm before the 50mm and then the 85mm lenses became more prominent in the 1950' and 1960's with famous London portrait photographers such as John French and David Bailey favouring the 85mm due to its flattering perspective. In my eyes, 35mm-50mm is the ideal street lens though the 7-14mm lens from Panasonic also appeals for 'walkabout'.

Overall so far, I cant stress how much I rate the GF1. It really is uber compact and I feel that it will allow me to take some brilliant pictures in the coming weeks, of which I will share on flickr and on the blog.

In conclusion, bear in mind that since 2005 I have had 2 X Canon Mark II N, 5D, Mark III, 5D Mark II and Nikon wise, a D300, D3, D700 and done some mad stuff with my cameras for work and fun, but this camera enthralls me like none of the above and to sum it up, I think Panasonic have out Leica'd Leica and that quite frankly, is incredible.

[Chillimonster]

Good Write-up - thanks for taking the time :thumbs:

[Hongsta299]

Ohhhh, I'm trying to resist.. Met someone at the Canon Pro Solutions show who had one and kindly let me play around with it, I've fallen in love and I'm considering selling my 17-55 IS and 70-300 to get one!

[Dangermouse1964]

It certainly looks good any shots of the actual kit

[Flash In The Pan]

Ohhhh, I'm trying to resist.. Met someone at the Canon Pro Solutions show who had one and kindly let me play around with it, I've fallen in love and I'm considering selling my 17-55 IS and 70-300 to get one!

Do it....after playing with mine for a day I get the feeling the D300's coat may be on a shoogly peg, as they say around here :lol:

It's given me my mojo back, I actually want to go out and take pics again :thumbs:

[dinners]

Nice write up - it's a great camera by all accounts so I'm looking forward to some shots.

[AliB]

I love my little Leica for just that too :)

It lives in my handbag and it's a great little camera for shooting really unobtusively. I just love the fact that it has a hotshoe too. Means I can use my Canon flashes and Pocketwizards with it.

How cool is that! :)

Enjoy Pete!

[zoidberg]

finaly had a play with a GF1 today.
Time to get the D80 and all the gubbins advertised.
Got a brilliant feel to it and with the 20mm fitted, the right size.
Want the 14-140 as well though

[pipedreamer]

Thanks for a great write up. I've had my GF1 for 2 weeks now, and have been enjoying it like no other camera i have owned in the past 20 years. It is truly a tool that neither flatters nor detracts from the picture taking experience but merely enables you to have a photographic tool with you in a way that the bulk of a conventional DSLR does not allow.

Cheers,

Peter.

[HoppyUK]

...Great optical performance with fast aperture telecentric lenses for great geometry and corner performance...

GF1 is a great camera but I think you are getting carried away with the fanciful marketing nonsense re telecentric lenses.

4/3rds lenses are no more telecentric than any other. The telecentricity comes only from the small size of the sensor - and if that was such a massive benefit, compacts would be even better at it.

4/3rds lenses suffer from distortion, vignetting, CA and all the other problems associated with peripheral performance, only to a lesser degree because of the small format. If by some magic this was cured by true telecentricity, 4/3rds cameras would have no need of their on-board software correction for all of the aforementioned optical shortcomings.

Your reference to "a mini tilt and shift piece of kit" has left me completely baffled :thinking:

[Diego Garcia]

GF1 is a great camera but I think you are getting carried away with the fanciful marketing nonsense re telecentric lenses.

4/3rds lenses are no more telecentric than any other. The telecentricity comes only from the small size of the sensor - and if that was such a massive benefit, compacts would be even better at it.

4/3rds lenses suffer from distortion, vignetting, CA and all the other problems associated with peripheral performance, only to a lesser degree because of the small format. If by some magic this was cured by true telecentricity, 4/3rds cameras would have no need of their on-board software correction for all of the aforementioned optical shortcomings.

Your reference to "a mini tilt and shift piece of kit" has left me completely baffled :thinking:

So has your usual retort. Fanciful marketing did not lead me to buy this camera, performance did. End.

Cheers.

[Diego Garcia]

Thanks for a great write up. I've had my GF1 for 2 weeks now, and have been enjoying it like no other camera i have owned in the past 20 years. It is truly a tool that neither flatters nor detracts from the picture taking experience but merely enables you to have a photographic tool with you in a way that the bulk of a conventional DSLR does not allow.

Cheers,

Peter.

Exactly - it seems the camera is liberating a lot of photographers who have stumbled into abject boredom.:thumbs:

[Venomator]

Congratulations on the new toy Pete... :thumbs:

Whatever anyone else says (any new kit will have its detractors... :suspect:) it is always exciting to get something new and I know you will enjoy it... ;)

I love my little Leica for just that too :)
It lives in my handbag and it's a great little camera for shooting really unobtusively. I just love the fact that it has a hotshoe too. Means I can use my Canon flashes and Pocketwizards with it.

Apart form the handbag bit, unless my manbag goes with me... :naughty: ... I know precisely what you are saying and feeling Ali... :thumbs: ... and don't forget you are entirely the cause of my enjoying the same dilemma... :D

But I hadn't even thought about using the hotshoe on the D-lux 4 with my Nikon flash... :shrug: ... I will be giving that a serious think... :thinking: ...after the F1 finishes... :lol: ...are there any dangers/pitfalls to this... :shrug:

Apologies for going slightly OT Pete... ;)


http://xrtheme.com/content/emoticons/Avatars/08.gif

[HoppyUK]

So has your usual retort. Fanciful marketing did not lead me to buy this camera, performance did. End.

Cheers.

And that's great :thumbs: I have been advocating the advantges of this design of camera since long before Panasonic and Olympus brought products to market.

But at no time have telecentric optics formed part of that design advantage, because the lenses are quite simply not telecentric. To claim 'near telecentricity' as 4/3rd manufacturers do is nothing more than a skewed marketing orientated reference to the small size of the sensor.

So I simply don't understand what you are saying there, particularly since from what you have said, it seems to be the main reason for buying. Likewise, I don't get the reference to tilt & shift at all.

[dazzajl]

Exactly - it seems the camera is liberating a lot of photographers who have stumbled into abject boredom.:thumbs:

The LX2 did exactly that for me but I'd love a camera that offers me the same creativity in a teeny box but can handle more situations. Like things that move for example.

I know the LX3 will allow me to take my P&S into slightly lower light situations and give me a little more ability to isolate subjects with focus control but I've held off buying one as I'm not sure the improvement over the 2 is worth it.

Then those mean pigs at pany dangle an even bigger carrot with this GF1.

So for those of you that have already committed, how does it stack up to your old DSLR's in terms of usability speed for people or action situations?

The other thing that bothers me is the only fast lens is fixed in both focal length and focus. Are you all getting on well with the current options?

[phototuition]

I've had my Gf1 with the 20mm for a couple of weeks now and love it. Tried the evf which is horrid so popped into the classic camera co by the british Museum and tried the little metal Voigtlander viewfinders, the 35mm worked well and the view is gorgeous, facial expressions can be clearly seen and no parralax over normal distances.

I look forward to trying the 45mm f2.8 maybe with the 90mm Viewfinder.

Oh, and by the way, Bailey has bought into the gf1 system at the C C co.

[py6km]

...So for those of you that have already committed, how does it stack up to your old DSLR's in terms of usability speed for people or action situations?

The other thing that bothers me is the only fast lens is fixed in both focal length and focus. Are you all getting on well with the current options?

It's not fast enough imo for anything more than subjects moving at moderate speeds. You may have trouble, for example, getting in focus shots of exuberant children or pets. This is based on my experience of the 20 f/1.7. Reports indicate that one of the zoom lenses are quicker for AF for some reason. To put it into perspective though, it is still fast and is a definite step up from a 'normal' compact in that regard. Statistically, you'll get keepers if you shoot enough frames!

I've only got the 20mm so far, but plan on getting the Leica 45mm when it's in stock. I'm more into using prime lenses anyway, so find it great. I find the only time that the convenience of a zoom wins out is at longer focal lengths (the 70-200 is the only zoom I have). Anything below that and I find fixed works well. I'm hoping for some faster u4/3 glass to appear - faster than f/2 preferably.

[springtide]

Great report Pete.

I picked up a secondhand E-P1 from here, and it's a lovely bit of kit (more the format than anything else).
Not sure if the lack of flash will be an issue, as I've just been thinking I'll pick up a cheap hotshoe flash for this situation. It was the size of the kit lens on the E-P1 that made me go for one (over the GF1), and the fact that I got a pretty good deal secondhand.

But, the wife still thinks it's too BIG (and she has to use it the majority of the time). Will keep working on the wife though!

Looking forward to seeing some more images with the GF1 :)

[Diego Garcia]

Cheers -

A few random snaps with the GF1 then - inside the studio and out. All taken by me aside from the picture of me (camo coat) What a camera -

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2596/4075479559_430b92ff7d.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2739/4075457231_da37c35d5a.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2765/4075453399_4018a77a82.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2537/4075474353_66f91e657e.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3656/4076245426_488cd5a693.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2603/4075460947_59f798f9b5.jpg

[Diego Garcia]

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2555/4075469901_d8f20cf907.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2596/4076230744_6e4f86cd72.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2455/4076223834_25d91d6e20.jpg

[KayJay]

Awesome. This is the only camera I would consider buying at the moment. When it was announced I knew it'd be a cracker having owned the LX3 for almost a year now.

That shot of the gentleman in the mobility scooter is awesome.

[Flash In The Pan]

Awesome. This is the only camera I would consider buying at the moment. When it was announced I knew it'd be a cracker having owned the LX3 for almost a year now.

That shot of the gentleman in the mobility scooter is awesome.

Fancy a street shoot-out with the LX3 and the GF-1?

[biggreyhorse]

handy in size, but surely when you start going up to a zoom lens you then step into the DSLR market.

The 20mm lens is very limiting ??

Then will panny start to go down the route of canon with massive prices hikes for new bigger and better glass ???

I can see the reason for this market and I think in time will become the standard, but not just yet for the pros, canon and Nikon have a huge lions share and make lots of money out of glass, they will tell you that this small sensor isnt the future !!!!!

[biggreyhorse]

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2555/4075469901_d8f20cf907.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2596/4076230744_6e4f86cd72.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2455/4076223834_25d91d6e20.jpg

low light range is good :-)

[Tulipone]

I guess that this will seem a stupid question to some, but what is the advantage of the 20mm lens over the 14-45? I would have thought that the latter would be more flexible, but the price of the 20mm bundle is more.

Please remember that I am stupid when answering!

Chris

[KayJay]

Fancy a street shoot-out with the LX3 and the GF-1?

Yeah mate. Day or evening? I'm not free for another two weekends.

[Flash In The Pan]

Yeah mate. Day or evening? I'm not free for another two weekends.

Either's fine with me, plenty of light at night in and around the GoMa etc

[gingerweasel]

I was looking at buying one of these instead of my D300, but at the time I convinced myself I wanted a 'real camera'. I think the problem with a DSLR is that you have to plan your shooting - not carrying one around in your back pocket...

I find I'm not shooting that much because it's difficult for me to plan time for shooting...

However are the lens options for these limited?

and in reality would I get the 12" x 10" prints I need for camera club comps?

[Diego Garcia]

I was looking at buying one of these instead of my D300, but at the time I convinced myself I wanted a 'real camera'. I think the problem with a DSLR is that you have to plan your shooting - not carrying one around in your back pocket...

I find I'm not shooting that much because it's difficult for me to plan time for shooting...

However are the lens options for these limited?

and in reality would I get the 12" x 10" prints I need for camera club comps?

Yes. - easily. It has the same native Res as your d300 and decent optics so yeah, no issues at 12" x 10".....Y

this is a real camera - have no doubt of that....

[Flash In The Pan]

I was looking at buying one of these instead of my D300, but at the time I convinced myself I wanted a 'real camera'. I think the problem with a DSLR is that you have to plan your shooting - not carrying one around in your back pocket...

I find I'm not shooting that much because it's difficult for me to plan time for shooting...

However are the lens options for these limited?

and in reality would I get the 12" x 10" prints I need for camera club comps?

You can get adapters to fit everything from Nikon and Canon glass right the way through to one to take old c-mount TV lenses

[gingerweasel]

Very tempting .. but I'd have to sell my d300 to fund it - toughy ...

No doubt I would use it more but is it a good move?

[Flash In The Pan]

A couple of "modded" GF-1s.....

Almost sensible

http://www.flickr.com/photos/shima11/4031024284/


and


"You've taken that too far"

http://www.flickr.com/photos/realityscans/3892524056/


:nuts: :lol:

[biggreyhorse]

Cheers -

A few random snaps with the GF1 then - inside the studio and out. All taken by me aside from the picture of me (camo coat) What a camera -

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2596/4075479559_430b92ff7d.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2739/4075457231_da37c35d5a.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2765/4075453399_4018a77a82.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2537/4075474353_66f91e657e.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3656/4076245426_488cd5a693.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2603/4075460947_59f798f9b5.jpg

Nice coat !!

[biggreyhorse]

The view finder is £180 !!!
Some of the bigger lenses are getting close to canon L series prices.

Surely once you go beyond the compact size and start fitting adapters and a bigger lens you then enter into the world of dslr. ???

I can see the point of this camera with a small lens, so its a pocket sized camera, after that does it not loose its sense of real use?

If you can keep it in your pocket or coat, there is a reason to own this and Im a great fan of panny stuff and have the bridge camera and leave it in my car.

The price is off putting and Im sure will come down, question is will canon and nikon start a war with Micro Four Thirds camera?

Dont get me wrong I love new technology and would love to have a play with one.

[Flash In The Pan]

The view finder is £180 !!!


That depends on where you buy it :whistling: :naughty:

[gingerweasel]

I'm convinced ....

Just put up my D300 for sale so I can go purchase one of these babies... I knew first time around I should have gone with this but I had to have the big camera... I'm sure freud would read a lot into that.

Would you say the viewfinder is worth the cost? and where did you pickup yours?

[Diego Garcia]

I'm convinced ....

Just put up my D300 for sale so I can go purchase one of these babies... I knew first time around I should have gone with this put I had to have the big camera... I'm sure frued would read a lot into that.

Would you say the viewfinder is worth the cost? and where did you pickup yours?

Cool beans. The joy of photography is thatvyou can always go back if you need to - but you'll love it...!

[Chillimonster]

The 20mm lens is very limiting ??



I think having just a single focal length is more 'liberating' than 'limiting' It allows you to concentrate on the photography ranther then the equipment. I find that on the DSLR i usually have just the 50mm on and it cesovr 90% of what i need to shoot.

I just need to find the best price now (SRS are at £649)

[springtide]

These are fantastc Pete, looks like you've put the GF1 through it's paces.

The GF1 really seems to give you 90% of the image quality that an dSLR gives you, but in a package that is much more managable.

I can see these really getting a foot hold in the market, for both people who want more than a compact (people who would have usually got an entry dSLR), but also as a lighter alternative to a dSLR.

[Venomator]

The GF1 really seems to give you 90% of the image quality that an dSLR gives you, but in a package that is much more manageable.

:thinking: ... Interesting you quote just 90%... :shrug: ... where does that come from and why wouldn't it be much higher than that... :suspect:


A few random snaps with the GF1 then - inside the studio and out. All taken by me aside from the picture of me (camo coat) What a camera -

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2765/4075453399_4018a77a82.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2603/4075460947_59f798f9b5.jpg

Excellent range of images Pete... :thumbs: ... easy to see you have not lost your touch so maybe the camera is more or less irrelevant... :naughty:

AND loving that camo jacket... :love: ... I SO want it... :dummy:

Not sure about your pink hair though... :suspect: ... or is that Matty under there... :naughty:

:coat:




http://xrtheme.com/content/emoticons/Avatars/08.gif

[henryf4]

resist resist resist! cracking pictures, i just didnt want to look at them for too long incase i start lusting for one :D

[springtide]

:thinking: ... Interesting you quote just 90%... :shrug: ... where does that come from and why wouldn't it be much higher than that... :suspect:



It was a figure of speech, and not meant to be taken literally :lol:


And would I expect it to be higher or lower than 90%.....
Well that is a really good question... well I would say it's probably 106.49% compared to a Oly 420, but more like 48.64% compared to a Nikon D3x.

[Diego Garcia]

Thanks all - currently in dartmouth on day two of my test. Just been sneaking around an abodoned warehouse. Post later on. The dude with the pink hair is snapper73 - aka scott, one of my oldest friends....he is 108...!!!!

[Chillimonster]

Thanks all - currently in dartmouth on day two of my test.

So is it a 'keeper' / 'DSLR Replacment' for you ??

:)

[Diego Garcia]

Keeper all the way...!!!!

[Chillimonster]

Good :)

My finger is still 'hovering' over the order button on one of these as i LOVE my little lx3, but sometimes wish for a little less DOF / more control over DOF so this looks like the ideal thing :)

[Diego Garcia]

Look out later as I have some stonking pix to sort....

[Chillimonster]

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

[gingerweasel]

:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

Been searching around for more information on this little gem.

I was also wondering what you guys thought of picking up the kit lens [14-45mm], the 45-200mm and the 17mm f2.8 instead of the 20mm?

[Diego Garcia]

A few here -

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2514/4079314718_a67af445b9.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2735/4078538771_1cd88c803c.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2604/4078415215_fb754fb03d.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3485/4079147352_f53b70091a.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3505/4079103624_38842e51fe.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3514/4078340983_8ab8c79ec0.jpg

Love it.

Further thoughts and pictures here -

http://petetileytitanimages.blogspot.com/2009/11/delightful-devonkeep-off-rocks.html

Thanks,

D/P.

[Flash In The Pan]

:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

Been searching around for more information on this little gem.

I was also wondering what you guys thought of picking up the kit lens [14-45mm], the 45-200mm and the 17mm f2.8 instead of the 20mm?

"Compared to the Olympus M Zuiko Digital 17mm F2.8, the Panasonic simply shines - it's much sharper (to the extent of being better at F1.7 than the Olympus is at F2.8), and has lower CA (even before software correction), less falloff and lower distortion (both 'native' and corrected)" (http://www.dpreview.com/lensreviews/panasonic_20_1p7_o20/)

[Hongsta299]

What sort of battery life are you guys getting on these? Without the evf, bit worried about the LCD being on all the time the battery life would be crap. Has anyone tried the cheaper eBay batteries? Or is there still a firmware lock preventing he use of them?

[Diego Garcia]

What sort of battery life are you guys getting on these? Without the evf, bit worried about the LCD being on all the time the battery life would be crap. Has anyone tried the cheaper eBay batteries? Or is there still a firmware lock preventing he use of them?

400 on the whole. Panasonic use battery encryption, but I think/suspect that third party batteries are out/on the way....

[PauloWanClift]

Very nice, looks like a great street photography tool. Bet you'd get a lot less unwanted attention that I did with a D200 and grip :lol:

[zoidberg]

can i ask what your using to post-process and do you shoot in RAW?

[springtide]

These do look very good Pete.

I keep think that they look exactly like they came from a dSLR, which I guess is because it has a dSLR sensor and lens quality.

[Flash In The Pan]

Very nice, looks like a great street photography tool. Bet you'd get a lot less unwanted attention that I did with a D200 and grip :lol:

The great thing is you can have it switched on and cupped in your hand by your side and no-one notices. It'll be interesting to see what difference the evf makes, both to the shootting experience and to battery life.

[Radiohead]

Add me to the list of GF1 owners. I've posted some thoughts about it vs the E-P1 (which I had before) on my blog:

I yield to no-one in my love for my Nikons. The D3 and D700 bodies are just about perfect for a wedding and documentary photographer. Fast, reliable, they just perform all the time.

But they're big and heavy and sometimes I don't want to be carrying about that much kit. At the same time I generally want to have a camera with me. I tried the Olympus E-P1 - lovely camera but hobbled by glacial AF and a slow kit lens. Olympus offer a 17mm pancake but it's an f2.8 which isn't great for what I shoot.I sold that on and eventually settled on the E-P1's sister micro-4/3's camera, the Panasonic GF1, and a far faster small prime, the 20mm f1.7.

The two areas that I felt the E-P1 struggled with, AF and slow lenses, are countered with ease by the GF1 (along with it having a far better LCD for framing). It looks more functional, but that's by the by really (the E-P1 really is a pretty camera to my eyes). You give up in-body image-stablization with the GF1 and for many that's rightly a serious win for the Olympus body. It's not a huge issue for me though as that f1.7 lens gives me more options in low-light. ISO performance is obviously nowhere near the D3/D700 level (but then what is, aside from the new Nikon D3s and Canon 1D Mk IV). That said I'd expect the GF1 to be usable to ISO800 for colour work and ISO1600 for mono. That's better than my first Nikon D70 DSLR which puts it into perspective.Oh and it records 720P/30fps HD video as well :D .

So, as a camera for having with you, with fast AF, great build, a wonderful fast prime lens and a feeling of real thought having gone into it, the GF1 looks hard to beat. It certainly looks like it gives little up to the new £1400 Leica X1 and is aimed squarely at the same market.


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2715/4080249818_8108ef27d6_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2574/4079489911_b5695effac_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2497/4079489967_0a8efdc235_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2622/4079489999_e823d4e6c6_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2531/4080250058_664ff37cc1_o.jpg


Staff Edit : Images changed to clickable links. Pictures must not exceed current forum limits as per the rules.
Please feel free to replace this with a fresh/resized image and remove this text :)

[gingerweasel]

I've just agreed the sale of my current kit in order to purchase one and I can't wait. The pictures look excellent but most of all it's small enough for me to carry everywhere I go - which means more time taking pictures..

I've decided to go with:

GF1 Body [black]
20mm F1.7
14-45mm Panasonic
45-200mm Panasonic

Eventually will need a wide-angle and a macro but these should get me started ;-)

[Chillimonster]

Mines ordered and will be collected in the morning :D

My local shop wanted £769 for the 20mm kit :eek:

I asked if that was his best price and he said he does not match internet stores. I tried to explain that it was a bricks and mortar store i wanted him to match and even offered to give him the phone number to confirm prioce and availability, but he just point blank refused to budge.

So even though i want to buy local, i'm going a little further afield and saving £120 :thumbs:

[gingerweasel]

Does anyone have a good comparison of prices? Best I've found was Warehouse Express:

7-14MM PANASONIC 899.00
14-45MM PANASONIC 229.00
45-200MM PANASONIC 249.00
20MM PANASONIC 299.00
45MM PANASONIC 589.00

GF1 Body + 20mm Kit 730.00
GF1 Body + 14-45mm Kit 589.00

[py6km]

I got my EVF from Mathers of Lancashire - best price, and their price of other u4/3 kit seems very competitive. Excellent service, and bricks and mortar store.

Prices here (http://www.mathersoflancashire.co.uk/page55.html).

[bastic]

Does anyone have a good comparison of prices? Best I've found was Warehouse Express:

7-14MM PANASONIC 899.00
14-45MM PANASONIC 229.00
45-200MM PANASONIC 249.00
20MM PANASONIC 299.00
45MM PANASONIC 589.00

GF1 Body + 20mm Kit 730.00
GF1 Body + 14-45mm Kit 589.00

hmmm
if 20mm and 14-45mm cost same why there is such a huge price difference when bought with a body ??

[mikeyt]

I'm really tempted by a GF1 instead of blowing insane amounts on a Leica, but do you think the lens line-up will grow? More good primes would be lovely.

[Chillimonster]

Does anyone have a good comparison of prices? Best I've found was Warehouse Express:

7-14MM PANASONIC 899.00
14-45MM PANASONIC 229.00
45-200MM PANASONIC 249.00
20MM PANASONIC 299.00
45MM PANASONIC 589.00

GF1 Body + 20mm Kit 730.00
GF1 Body + 14-45mm Kit 589.00

http://www.mathersoflancashire.co.uk/page55.html

[gingerweasel]

That will save a few quid, thanks guys..

For those of you already sporting the GF1 what camera bags do you use? Ideally I'd have two, one for carrying everywhere with 20mm attached and a further bag for when I want to travel with all the lenses (4 to 5).

[Chillimonster]

Just found this link (http://panasonic.jp/support/global/cs/dsc/connect/g1.html) listing compatibilites for lenses with the GF-1

[py6km]

That will save a few quid, thanks guys..

For those of you already sporting the GF1 what camera bags do you use? Ideally I'd have two, one for carrying everywhere with 20mm attached and a further bag for when I want to travel with all the lenses (4 to 5).

Billingham Hadley Digital and Hadley Pro respectively.

[icecavern]

Does anyone have a good comparison of prices? Best I've found was Warehouse Express:

7-14MM PANASONIC 899.00
14-45MM PANASONIC 229.00
45-200MM PANASONIC 249.00
20MM PANASONIC 299.00
45MM PANASONIC 589.00

GF1 Body + 20mm Kit 730.00
GF1 Body + 14-45mm Kit 589.00

http://www.kingsleyphoto.co.uk/prod.php?prod=984 might be of use, kingsley might have me popping in to pick one up for christmas.

Pete

[pipedreamer]

Thanks for the write up. I feel exactly the same about mine and am now taking more photos than i have done in years. Is it as good as my D300 (soon to be sold)? Probably not. But it is with me most of the time now and surely that's what counts.
Now all i want is a fast short portrait lens:)

Here are a few taken on a recent trip to NYC -

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3515/4047724357_c739a99319.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2622/4048498804_be79300c11.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2484/4048524158_cb8927d5a7.jpg

Hi-res available here - http://www.flickr.com/photos/30578910@N07/sets/72157622546157531/

Cheers,

Peter.

[gingerweasel]

Billingham Hadley Digital and Hadley Pro respectively.

Thanks py6km

[Danny_Two]

Does anyone have a good comparison of prices? Best I've found was Warehouse Express:

7-14MM PANASONIC 899.00
14-45MM PANASONIC 229.00
45-200MM PANASONIC 249.00
20MM PANASONIC 299.00
45MM PANASONIC 589.00

GF1 Body + 20mm Kit 730.00
GF1 Body + 14-45mm Kit 589.00

Have a look here (http://www.thedigitalcamerashop.co.uk/search.php?st=category%7CLenses&st2=Panasonic+Lenses).

[CyBeRkId2002]

soooo tempted by this camera, either to accompany my D90 or replace it. I love the idea of having a small compact that could live in my coat pocket and be with me all the time for whenever an opportunity arrives. Also, as 90% of my current shooting is on a Nikon 35mm f2 I think the 20mm kit lens would suit me down to the ground. It's that extra 10% that worries me a bit and whether I could live without it.

As for lenses, does having a range of lenses for one of these negate it's purpose? I would imagine the general idea behind these is a small lightweight outfit that you can stick in your pocket. If your carrying a range of lenses what does the small extra weight of a better slr body (ie. D90, 50D) add? Do the people who already own this intend on buying additional lenses for it?

[NorthernNikon]

As for lenses, does having a range of lenses for one of these negate it's purpose?

Yes. Treat it as a Leica user would their rangefinder. Take a pair of lenses and use those. Anymoer and you're as well carrying a small DSLR with an 18-200mm super zoom IMVHO.

[foodpoison]

Wow...
I had no interest in this camera prior to reading this thread...

Now all I can think about is how much I could get for my kit if I were to sell it all up and replace with a GF1 and a 20mm.

God damn!

Just gear lust but the pictures I've seen are simply stunning, and the 20mm paired with the size of the body is ludicrous. It's tiny!
I hate walking around sometimes with my 40d and 24-60 because it's massive.

But I love using a camera in that way and I know I'd miss having it.

[CyBeRkId2002]

my feelings exactly... I keep wondering if I sold up would I want a 'proper' DSLR back within a month or so.

[Chillimonster]

Just picked min up from Mathers of Lancashire - Superb service, with the personal touch.

:thumbs:

[foodpoison]

my feelings exactly... I keep wondering if I sold up would I want a 'proper' DSLR back within a month or so.

Well I know there are things that this couldn't cope with that I shoot, hence why I bought a 40d in the first place! :p

[Jaz]

Peter: I meant to comment on those photos when you first posted them/when I saw them.

They're amazing, thanks for posting them - I love the first with the train. :)

Cheers.

[Flash In The Pan]

GF-1 £659 delivered with the 20mm from Photo Express in Ulverston :thumbs:



If anyone is looking for an EVF drop me a pm.....

[Jaz]

Cheers Graham - good price.

Thanks also to Pete, of course, and to Guy for posting photos.

[NorthernNikon]

[QUOTE=Flash In The Pan;2037011]GF-1 £659 delivered with the 20mm from Photo Express in Ulverston :thumbs:[QUOTE]

Thanks for the tip, I think I might give them a ring next week.

[zoidberg]

GF-1 £659 delivered with the 20mm from Photo Express in Ulverston :thumbs:


Ulverston or Bolton to get a GF1, same distance just about each way from me.
:thinking:

[Chillimonster]

Ulverston or Bolton to get a GF1, same distance just about each way from me.
:thinking:

If you want the 'personal touch' its gotta be Mathers in Bolton :thumbs:

[zoidberg]

If you want the 'personal touch' its gotta be Mathers in Bolton :thumbs:

Can see me taking an afternoon off work this week to pop down to bolton then. Do fancy the 14-140 for its video performance, looks like an ideal lens for using at school plays/sports days.

[Flash In The Pan]

GF-1 £659 delivered with the 20mm from Photo Express in Ulverston :thumbs:

Thanks for the tip, I think I might give them a ring next week.Ask for Dave and tell him Graham in Glasgow sent you (and you want the same deal ;))

[Flash In The Pan]

Cheers Graham - good price.

Thanks also to Pete, of course, and to Guy for posting photos.

Yeah, I was in a camera shop in Glasgow and the owner couldn't believe that price, he's asking £740 for them. Mind you he did have a nice Canon 50mm FD f/1.4, which is now awaiting an FD-> micro 4/3 adapter :D

[gingerweasel]

As for lenses, does having a range of lenses for one of these negate it's purpose? I would imagine the general idea behind these is a small lightweight outfit that you can stick in your pocket. If your carrying a range of lenses what does the small extra weight of a better slr body (ie. D90, 50D) add? Do the people who already own this intend on buying additional lenses for it?

My intention is to carry a single lens [two at most] but as with everything there is a right tool for the job. If I intent to shoot birds at a distance, the 45-200mm will be in my bag along with the 20mm.

If I was shooting landscapes then it would be the 7-14mm.

Even with one of the larger lenses attached this is significantly smaller than a standard SLR with equivalent lens.

Although I have been wondering just how much I would use the 14-45mm along side the 20mm, 45-200mm and eventually the 7-14mm - not sure I'd get much use from it. Whilst the 14-140mm offers a good focal range I don't think it would have enough reach for me [280mm @ 35mm equivalent]. I currently have the Nikkor 18-200mm and find myself wanting more reach, this is why I was considering the 45-200mm [400mm @ 35mm equivalent].

What's the deal with the 14-140mm and video?

[DekHog]

In theory I love this idea, but know that being stuck with a fixed focal length (and no optical VF) would drive me insane - OK, I could add a zoom or two, but it then defeats the purpose of it altogether as it isn't pocketable any more, so as well with a DSLR.

Like Chilli, the one thing that would really bug me is a no lens with real control over DOF, and I won't hold my breath waiting on something like a 50mm F1.8, as it'll never appear; Olympus have never had anything like this in the pipeline during all their years with standard 4/3, so Panny aren't likely to manufacture it either for what would be considered a niche market.

Fine if you're happy with your (expensive) 20mm, but stick a zoom on it, and once again you're conspicuous by its very presence....

[pipedreamer]

Peter: I meant to comment on those photos when you first posted them/when I saw them.

They're amazing, thanks for posting them - I love the first with the train. :)

Cheers.

Thanks! Thinking about it, i would not have felt confident or comfortable standing on a platform in Harlem taking a photo with the D300 and some big long lens. With the GF1, i felt soooo much more comfortable and so got some shots i simply would not have if i had to lump the D300 around.
Ultimately, i'd rather get the shot with 95% of the quality of a good DSLR than not get the shot at all.

Cheers,

Peter.

[Flash In The Pan]

In theory I love this idea, but know that being stuck with a fixed focal length (and no optical VF) would drive me insane - OK, I could add a zoom or two, but it then defeats the purpose of it altogether as it isn't pocketable any more, so as well with a DSLR.

Like Chilli, the one thing that would really bug me is a no lens with real control over DOF, and I won't hold my breath waiting on something like a 50mm F1.8, as it'll never appear; Olympus have never had anything like this in the pipeline during all their years with standard 4/3, so Panny aren't likely to manufacture it either for what would be considered a niche market.

Fine if you're happy with your (expensive) 20mm, but stick a zoom on it, and once again you're conspicuous by its very presence....

There's plenty of control over dof with the 20mm, it's not as if it's a fixed f/1.7 and if you want a 50mm all you need is an Ebay adapter and the 50mm lens of your choice.

[gingerweasel]

Like I said before even with a zoom on this body you're still holding a camera half the size of a typical SLR.

Don't forget the micro 4/3rd lenses are around 50% smaller than standard lenses of the same focal range.

[DekHog]

There's plenty of control over dof with the 20mm, it's not as if it's a fixed f/1.7 and if you want a 50mm all you need is an Ebay adapter and the 50mm lens of your choice.

It would retain all functions with say a Nikon 50mm on it, or are we back to manual focusing or exposure, etc??

I was meaning lack of DOF, mate, rather than more by stopping it down - the 4/3 format is at the opposite end of the spectrum when it comes to shallow DOF than a FF body...

[Flash In The Pan]

You'd need to set the aperture on the lens and manual focus, no worse than a D40 or similar though....

[Flash In The Pan]

Like I said before even with a zoom on this body you're still holding a camera half the size of a typical SLR.

Don't forget the micro 4/3rd lenses are around 50% smaller than standard lenses of the same focal range.

Even with the Canon 50mm and adapter on it it won't be much bigger a combo than one with the 14-45 kit lens...I hope :lol:

[mikeyt]

sticking a nice 50mm lens on is a great idea - how *is* manual focussing without a viewfinder?

[gingerweasel]

Graham, would a standard 50mm lens like the nikkor f1.4 give a 100mm focal length on this sensor?

Still undecided on what direction to take lens wise so I'm looking at all possible options.

[Flash In The Pan]

sticking a nice 50mm lens on is a great idea - how *is* manual focussing without a viewfinder?

It's actually pretty easy with the lcd

[Flash In The Pan]

Graham, would a standard 50mm lens like the nikkor f1.4 give a 100mm focal length on this sensor?

Still undecided on what direction to take lens wise so I'm looking at all possible options.

It'll give you the fov of a 100m lens, yes, however the old Canon FD one is a lot cheaper than a Nikon one.

I wonder if I should buy a Nikon G adapter (you can adjust the aperture on the G lenses with one) and stick the 70-200 VR on it? :nuts:

[NorthernNikon]

It'll give you the fov of a 100m lens, yes, however the old Canon FD one is a lot cheaper than a Nikon one.

I wonder if I should buy a Nikon G adapter (you can adjust the aperture on the G lenses with one) and stick the 70-200 VR on it? :nuts:

Get yourself one of these:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_qiocQs_J_Eg/SKH8d3-l2OI/AAAAAAAAA0c/OTIcjT6TKb4/s400/NIK_0448-blog.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_qiocQs_J_Eg/SKH8eIlMUZI/AAAAAAAAA0k/70mym6RJY2E/s400/NIK_0454-blog.jpg

The Nikon 45mm f/2.8 Nikkor AI-S. Being manual focus isn't an issue at all but the key benefit is the fact that this is the slimmest lens Nikon have made and is the perfect profile for an MFT body.

[Flash In The Pan]

Get yourself one of these:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_qiocQs_J_Eg/SKH8d3-l2OI/AAAAAAAAA0c/OTIcjT6TKb4/s400/NIK_0448-blog.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_qiocQs_J_Eg/SKH8eIlMUZI/AAAAAAAAA0k/70mym6RJY2E/s400/NIK_0454-blog.jpg

The Nikon 45mm f/2.8 Nikkor AI-S. Being manual focus isn't an issue at all but the key benefit is the fact that this is the slimmest lens Nikon have made and is the perfect profile for an MFT body.


What would that cost me though :shrug:

[DekHog]

What would that cost me though :shrug:

Yeah, but we all know you can afford it... :D

[NorthernNikon]

What would that cost me though :shrug:

I bought Puddleduck's off him for £200 here the other week, but Grays have them for around £215. They are out there, but I suspect that once people cotton on to how well suited it should be to a GF1 I can easily see rpices rising.

[Flash In The Pan]

Yeah, but we all know you can afford it... :D

Not unless it's under a tenner :shrug:

[HoppyUK]

Graham, would a standard 50mm lens like the nikkor f1.4 give a 100mm focal length on this sensor?

Still undecided on what direction to take lens wise so I'm looking at all possible options.

A 50mm f/1.4 lens would behave like a 100mm in terms of field of view. The f/number is still f/1.4 but depth of field is equivalent to 2 stops higher, ie f/2.8.

Multiply by 2x crop factor to get 35mm equivalents for field of view and DoF.

[gingerweasel]

Richard sorry to be a pain but I'm not sure I understand what field of view is. Done a quick google and couldn't find a clear answer.

I'm assuming even though the 45-200mm has an equivalent FOV of 90-400mm this wouldn't actually get me closer to the subject?

[HoppyUK]

Richard sorry to be a pain but I'm not sure I understand what field of view is. Done a quick google and couldn't find a clear answer.

I'm assuming even though the 45-200mm has an equivalent FOV of 90-400mm this wouldn't actually get me closer to the subject?

No worries bud :)

Field of view is how much you get in the picture - wide field of view is a panoramic landscape (think wide-angle), narrow field is a small detail from that landscape enlarged to fill the picture (think tele-zoom).

Field of view is also known as 'angle of view' which I find better term TBH but it's not so commonly used. Angle of view is quoted in lens specs, but it varies according to what format the lens is used on, which is why a lot of the time things are converted back to 'full-frame 35mm film equivalent' as that is what a lot of people can relate to.

Take your 45-200mm lens. When used on a 4/3rds camera, which has a sensor one quarter the area of full-frame 35mm film, the amount of the scene that you get in the picture is the same as if you had fitted a 90-400mm lens on a full-frame camera. And that is a very long lens, for wildlife/birding, sport/action etc - stuff you can't get close to.

I'll find link in a mo...

Edit: Here you go http://www.tamron.com/lenses/learning_center/tools/focal-length-comparison.php This is a handy widget from Tamron. It is scaled for 35mm film and 1.5x digital so for 4/3rds, load it up on the 35mm setting and just divide the focal length by the 2x crop factor to get equivalents.

[Raymond Lin]

Quite tempted by one of these now....as I don't carry around my SLR unless for something planned, this seems perfect to leave it in my bag.

[Flash In The Pan]

A 50mm f/1.4 lens would behave like a 100mm in terms of field of view. The f/number is still f/1.4 but depth of field is equivalent to 2 stops higher, ie f/2.8.

Multiply by 2x crop factor to get 35mm equivalents for field of view and DoF.


Still a cheap way to get a 100mm f/2.8 lens for one :)

I wonder how it would handle tacked onto the back of a 300mm f/2.8 lens :naughty:

[HoppyUK]

Still a cheap way to get a 100mm f/2.8 lens for one :)

I wonder how it would handle tacked onto the back of a 300mm f/2.8 lens :naughty:

Very similar to the Canon 7D I would guess, at least in terms of 'pixel reach'.

Pixel density is almost identical to 7D, the camera that is causing so much excitement amongst long-lens birders.

300 2.8 would behave like a 600 2.8, but with DoF equivalent to f/5.6. It's an interesting proposition for sure :naughty:

This new design of camera, and surely many more to come like it, has potential in all sorts of different ways. I'm not sure the grown ups with DSLRs are quite ready for it yet, but I don't think we've seen nuffin yet :)

[gingerweasel]

No worries bud :)

Field of view is how much you get in the picture - wide field of view is a panoramic landscape (think wide-angle), narrow field is a small detail from that landscape enlarged to fill the picture (think tele-zoom).

Field of view is also known as 'angle of view' which I find better term TBH but it's not so commonly used. Angle of view is quoted in lens specs, but it varies according to what format the lens is used on, which is why a lot of the time things are converted back to 'full-frame 35mm film equivalent' as that is what a lot of people can relate to.

Take your 45-200mm lens. When used on a 4/3rds camera, which has a sensor one quarter the area of full-frame 35mm film, the amount of the scene that you get in the picture is the same as if you had fitted a 90-400mm lens on a full-frame camera. And that is a very long lens, for wildlife/birding, sport/action etc - stuff you can't get close to.

I'll find link in a mo...

Edit: Here you go http://www.tamron.com/lenses/learning_center/tools/focal-length-comparison.php This is a handy widget from Tamron. It is scaled for 35mm film and 1.5x digital so for 4/3rds, load it up on the 35mm setting and just divide the focal length by the 2x crop factor to get equivalents.

Thanks Richard..

[68lbs]

Hmm, this camera's quite tickling me!

I've been looking at compacts, for something smaller. Last night I took out the 5D with just a 50/1.4 attached because I wanted something more discreet and more suited to a night at the fireworks with the kids.

A couple of qu's about the GF1, if I may...

1. Do all you people who are buying one see it as a dslr replacement? Or are some of you using it as a 'compact'. And is it worth paying the extra over something like and LX3/D-Lux?

2. DoF and inability to isolate subjects is a big downside of a compact for me. Is the GF1 better than a compact at this?

[Chillimonster]

1. Do all you people who are buying one see it as a dslr replacement? Or are some of you using it as a 'compact'. And is it worth paying the extra over something like and LX3/D-Lux?

For me it is a DSLR replacement, as i found i was leaving the DSLR at home way too much and just taking the LX3 out. The GF1 IQ is up there with the best of them. True - the DOF is not as shallow as FF, but this is not an issue for me as 1.7 is plenty wide enough on the 20mm (fantastic lens). For me it was the natural step up from the LX3, as it gave me that 'extra' i wanted from the LX3 without using the DSLR


2. DoF and inability to isolate subjects is a big downside of a compact for me. Is the GF1 better than a compact at this?

Much Much better. Its basically a mirrorless DSLR in a small body.

Have a look over on my other thread (http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=178378)for some of the shots i took today with the 20mm and the 14-45 kit lenses.

[AndyWest]

Ordering mine next week. Can't wait!!!

I have 2 Olympus Zuiko OM Manual Focus lenses (28mm f2.8 and 50mm f1.4) that i really don't want to sell and it would be great if i could use them on the GF1 (AKA Girlfriend 1) I guess there's an adapter for these lens?? if there is do they have AF alarm? Will the MF zooming on the screen still work with one of these lenses attached?

[68lbs]

Have a look over on my other thread (http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=178378)for some of the shots i took today with the 20mm and the 14-45 kit lenses.

Some nice stuff there, and I was looking on your flickr too. No exif though. The 'crossing lady' shot... what sort of focal length and aperture are we talking on that one?

[Chillimonster]

Some nice stuff there, and I was looking on your flickr too. No exif though. The 'crossing lady' shot... what sort of focal length and aperture are we talking on that one?

20mm, 1.7, ISO100, 1/250th

*Toddles off to re-instate exif on LRMogrify ;)

[HoppyUK]

Hmm, this camera's quite tickling me!

I've been looking at compacts, for something smaller. Last night I took out the 5D with just a 50/1.4 attached because I wanted something more discreet and more suited to a night at the fireworks with the kids.

A couple of qu's about the GF1, if I may...

1. Do all you people who are buying one see it as a dslr replacement? Or are some of you using it as a 'compact'. And is it worth paying the extra over something like and LX3/D-Lux?

2. DoF and inability to isolate subjects is a big downside of a compact for me. Is the GF1 better than a compact at this?

For shallow DoF there is a very big difference between 4/3rds and full frame with an f/1.4 lens. 4/3rds inherantly delivers the equivalent of two stops more, f/number for f/number (2x crop factor).

On the other hand, 4/3rds is very much better than compacts, which typically have a crop factor around 5x.

So, same subject and framing with an average compact (they vary) at f/2 will deliver DoF equivalent to f/5 on 4/3rds and f/10 on full frame :eek: Put another way, f/1.7 on 4/3rds gives DoF equivalent to f/3.4 on full frame.

Edit: check it out here www.dofmaster.com

[NorthernNikon]

1. Do all you people who are buying one see it as a dslr replacement? Or are some of you using it as a 'compact'. And is it worth paying the extra over something like and LX3/D-Lux?

No. I'm keeping the D3 and D300. For me the GF1 is a system to compiment my Nikon system not replace it.

[gingerweasel]

1. Do all you people who are buying one see it as a dslr replacement?

I'm by no means an expert on the technical aspects of photography or digital sensors etc... but I've just sold my D300 and 18-200 VR to fund one of these.

I'll be ordering it tomorrow!

From what I've read this camera can compete with most entry to mid range SLR cameras in terms of image quality and as an extra it fits in your pocket ;-)

Exactly what I want...

Of course you might look a little silly showing up for a studio session with one of these, lol

[I just had a vision, picture a load of sports togs at a premiership match with their car sized lenses - your eye wonders to the end of the line and there is a guy with a 600mm lens slapped onto the GF1 - lol]

[mid_gen]

I owned an E-P1 but didn't really get on with it. With the kit 14-42 it wasn't in practical terms any more portable than my old 30D. I had grand plans of carrying it in my pocket and snapping away loads more but in reality it hardly got used, cos it only came out when I was taking a camera bag. Never got used to framing with the screen either, but of course an EVF sorts that problem out.

I've had a play with the GF-1 and with the 20mm f1.7 it is actually just about compact enough to stick in a pocket.

[NorthernNikon]

I've had a play with the GF-1 and with the 20mm f1.7 it is actually just about compact enough to stick in a pocket.

Maybe you should have gone for the 17mm with the Oly then?

[Chillimonster]

Maybe you should have gone for the 17mm with the Oly then?

But the focusing on the GF1 is just so much faster (noticably so)

[mid_gen]

Maybe you should have gone for the 17mm with the Oly then?

Maybe....but the f2.8 doesn't really cut it for a prime, especially at a premium over the zoom. But the Panasonic f1.7 is more that you'd want from a prime, particularly as the 2x crop is already limiting your subject isolation.

I'd also heard that the AF wasn't really any better on the 17mm. By all accounts it seems Panny fixed all of the faults of the E-P1 on the GF-1, the only downside being no IS, which to be fair, was very effective on the E-P1.

A lot of people are using MF lenses, such as the Voightlander Nokton 40 f1.4 and love the combination with the in-body IS :)

E-P1 just didn't suit me, took some great pics, kit lens was amazingly sharp.....but sometimes man and machine just aren't a great match! It has got me using film a lot more with my Trip and Nikon EM, which are both similarly compact. Now if someone can fit a full frame digital sensor in a trip-sized body........:)

[gingerweasel]

Now if someone can fit a full frame digital sensor in a trip-sized body........:)

They have, but you have to be a Russian oil tycoon to afford it :)

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0909/09090909leicam9.asp

[68lbs]

Is this GF1 and the EP1 the first of a new breed? Are we likely to see more cameras like this... cheaper alternatives perhaps?

[DekHog]

The next one the beginning of next year is the EP2, and that's considerably more expensive...

[gingerweasel]

The next one the beginning of next year is the EP2, and that's considerably more expensive...

and by all accounts is still lacking in the area of autofocus and electronic viewfinder [it has one but it's massive].

[HoppyUK]

Is this GF1 and the EP1 the first of a new breed? Are we likely to see more cameras like this... cheaper alternatives perhaps?

First of a new breed for sure IMHO. I think we will see many more of this type of camera - the design has fundamental advantages in all sorts of ways.

Canon, Nikon and Sony will wade in when they start losing significant sales to Panasonic and Olympus (Samsung coming soon). They surely have prototypes in the wings now - there's nothing here that they cannot do at least as well by adapting current technology.

Next thing is the mechanical shutter will give way to sensor switching and we'll have a solid state still/video camera of exceptional performance.

It should also be much cheaper to manufacture, and software will be used to improve lens performance. Whether or not this will translate into cheaper cameras remains to be seen. There are certainly big R&D costs to recover so short term probably not. Long term, if it really catches on then they should be cheaper but somehow I don't think they will be for several years yet.

[thesmileyone]

I think the GF1 is going to be a good choice for me aswell.

Its awkward lugging a D70 around, but i really want a nikkor 24-70mm. This is around 1k second hand, meaning for that I could get a GF1 and 35mm lens.

[NorthernNikon]

Well I ordered my GF1 from Mathers and a Novoflex adaptor from Speedgrpahic this morning. All being well I'll get them tomorrow, but either way in plenty time to get to know the camera and lenses before my trip to the Staes in a couple of weeks.

[NorthernNikon]

I think the GF1 is going to be a good choice for me aswell.

Its awkward lugging a D70 around, but i really want a nikkor 24-70mm. This is around 1k second hand, meaning for that I could get a GF1 and 35mm lens.

I can't see a GF1 replacing a DSLR for me. I want something to compliment my Nikon system and the GF1 is that. Everyone is different though, and it could be the right system for you, just bear in mind the pros and cons and don't get swept along by the hype, every DSLR/MFT camera you can buy is capable of stunning results.

[zoidberg]

So we've got NAS(Nikon Acquisition Syndrome) and ive just got over that by selling up, am i now going to get MAS(Micro 4/3's Acquisition syndrome)?

Hopefully can order my GF1 later today or tomorrow. Give me a few days to used to it before going to a wedding on Saturday and my daughters party on sunday.

[Chillimonster]

Might be usefull setting up a MFT hints tips thread up, as more and more people seem to be aquiring them??

[Willo]

I can't see a GF1 replacing a DSLR for me. I want something to compliment my Nikon system and the GF1 is that. Everyone is different though, and it could be the right system for you, just bear in mind the pros and cons and don't get swept along by the hype, every DSLR/MFT camera you can buy is capable of stunning results.

This is a good point, I really like the concept of MFT and will be getting the GF1 either this week or next (but this depends on what Ricoh come up with). But I would only use it as a backup to my D700, more likely for when I go travelling rather than a full replacement.

[HoppyUK]

This is a good point, I really like the concept of MFT and will be getting the GF1 either this week or next (but this depends on what Ricoh come up with). But I would only use it as a backup to my D700, more likely for when I go travelling rather than a full replacement.

4/3rds is not essential to this style of camera. The basic concept is centred around the removal of the reflex viewing system that inhibits conventional DSLRs and lenses, replaced with LCD viewing or an electronic viewfinder.

It could just as easily have a full frame sensor inside and the camera need not be any bigger, but the lenses would need to be much bigger. My guess is that when Canon/Nikon have a go with one of these, it will use their regular crop format sensor and EF-S/DX lenses.

When they have got an electronic viewfinder closer to what an optical viewfinder can do, and the AF speed up to the DSLR's phase detect systems (which can't be too long) I think DSLR users will come knockin in droves ;)

[Terrywoodenpic]

When You think that these are the first examples of a new genus of camera, they are already amazingly good.

Within two years we will be seeing third generation cameras of this type, and I suspect from all major makes.

If Canon and Nikon do not follow the 4/3 standard much of the advantage of standardization will be lost. which will be a pity. but they have never followed anyone before, so they probably will not now.

If leica and Sony were to join in, it would probably establish the Format in the long term.

[Venomator]

So, they are not compacts nor DSLR, TLR, or any existing (?) logical group... :shrug: ... what then is this new breed going to be called... :suspect:


DILDO ... :naughty:





http://xrtheme.com/content/emoticons/Avatars/08.gif

[NorthernNikon]

If leica and Sony were to join in, it would probably establish the Format in the long term.

I doubt that Leica will. They've been down that road in 35mm days and suffered as a result. No, they'll protect the M9 by not releasing a smalled body with an M mount while the launch of the APS-C format X1 is their attempt to eat into this market space.

The only way I see Leica releasing an MFT style body is if they see M9 sales suffering enough by people buying 'poor man's' Leica bodies and sticking an M mount adaptor on to use Leica lenses.

[gingerweasel]

Well I did it ... I'm now a member of the GF1 club!

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2574/4090118954_d62dfbc31d_o.jpg

Ended up with:

GF1 Body [Black]
Panasonic 20mm f1.7 pancake lens + 46mm Hoya UV Filter
Panasonic 45-200mm Superzoom [on order] + 52mm Hoya UV Filter
Panasonic EFV
Lowepro Nova 160 AW

I told the guy I'd seen their prices on TP and he asked me to show him the thread. He remembered Chillimonster - apparently they have been posted on DPReview too so they are likely seeing some business from this. He said this is one of the fastest selling cameras they's had in years.

[AndyWest]

Might be usefull setting up a MFT hints tips thread up, as more and more people seem to be aquiring them??

Or even a forum section for 4/3 cameras?????

[Flash In The Pan]

So, they are not compacts nor DSLR, TLR, or any existing (?) logical group... :shrug: ... what then is this new breed going to be called... :suspect:


DILDO ... :naughty:





http://xrtheme.com/content/emoticons/Avatars/08.gif


Why isn't that word blocked by the sweary filter, yet you can't write **** Turpin, the highwayman's name? :suspect: :lol:

[dazzajl]

I'm shocked you can't write ****, Turpin or otherwise.

Still, Dildo Turpin has something of a ring to it I guess. A story that needs telling? Probably not! :lol:

Congrats on the new boxes GW.

[NorthernNikon]

Why isn't that word blocked by the sweary filter, yet you can't write **** Turpin, the highwayman's name? :suspect: :lol:

What if you wanted directions from Scunthorpe to Penistone? :naughty:

[Chillimonster]

Well I did it ... I'm now a member of the GF1 club!

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2574/4090118954_d62dfbc31d_o.jpg

Ended up with:

GF1 Body [Black]
Panasonic 20mm f1.7 pancake lens + 46mm Hoya UV Filter
Panasonic 45-200mm Superzoom [on order] + 52mm Hoya UV Filter
Panasonic EFV
Lowepro Nova 160 AW

I told the guy I'd seen their prices on TP and he asked me to show him the thread. He remembered Chillimonster - apparently they have been posted on DPReview too so they are likely seeing some business from this. He said this is one of the fastest selling cameras they's had in years.

Ahhh, so it was you who went in and bought one. I was speaking with the manager earlier when i was organising the reserved 45-200 i ordered on Saturday, and he mentioned that a TPF'er had been in for a GF1. Glad he remembered me :D

Did you get the handshake treatment too?

[gingerweasel]

I was speaking with the manager earlier when i was organising the reserved 45-200 i ordered on Saturday

Ah, he said he'd got a delivery of 45-200's today. I was trying to get him to sell me one and re-order for the original buyer, lol

Did you get the handshake treatment too?

I tried to avoid the trip [3 hour round trip] by going to Jacobs first thing. They had the GF1 + 20mm for £799, I asked them to price match and they told me to get lost. Mathers worked out almost £280 cheaper on the day for the kit I bought.

Needless to say I won't be spending money at Jacobs in future.

Mathers were great, they seemed knowledgeable about the industry, they were friendly and best of all they have the best prices by a mile.

I will definitely be ordering any future kit from their website. Stores like this deserve to have our business.

[Chillimonster]

Ah, he said he'd got a delivery of 45-200's today. I was trying to get him to sell me one and re-order for the original buyer, lol

:bat: :bat:

:lol:





I will definitely be ordering any future kit from their website. Stores like this deserve to have our business.

My thoughts exactly, and hopefully the good experience we've had will be shared by many other from TPF in the future :thumbs:

[AndyWest]

GF1 ordered from Mathers but they're out of stock so i won't get mine until next Tuesday. Still i'm saving £80 from purchasing it from Mathers as apposed to going to Warehouse Express. It's going to be a looooooong week! :D

[NorthernNikon]

GF1 ordered from Mathers but they're out of stock so i won't get mine until next Tuesday. Still i'm saving £80 from purchasing it from Mathers as apposed to going to Warehouse Express. It's going to be a looooooong week! :D

Mine just arrived this morning from them. The batteries on charge as I type. What's worse than waiting for the camera to arrvie is having to wait for the battery to charge before you can play with it! :D

[AndyWest]

Mine just arrived this morning from them. The batteries on charge as I type. What's worse than waiting for the camera to arrvie is having to wait for the battery to charge before you can play with it! :D

I hear ya brov!! most annoying :lol::lol:

Post up some test shots when it's charged!!!!!!

[goffski]

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2765/4075453399_4018a77a82.jpg


Damn, i thought i was the only one with that coat. :(

[Flash In The Pan]

Mine just arrived this morning from them. The batteries on charge as I type. What's worse than waiting for the camera to arrvie is having to wait for the battery to charge before you can play with it! :D

Have you seen the price of batteries for them? :annoyed:

[NorthernNikon]

Have you seen the price of batteries for them? :annoyed:

Yes I have. Looks like I'll be waiting a while before ordering a spare.

Before that though I've got to find a case. Has anyone found a case for the GF1 with 20mm attached? I don't want another bag, but something akin to the old ever-ready cases of days gone by would be nice, especially if it were brown leather like the ones Panasonic/Leica do for their compacts.

The offical Panasonic one looks a little drab for >£65

http://www.parkcameras.com/ProductImages/fullsize/dmw-cgl1-k.jpg

[Radiohead]

No way am I paying £65 for that.

The Lowepro Rezo 60 fits well by all accounts (GF1 + 20mm only)

[Venomator]

Damn, i thought i was the only one with that coat. :(

Damn... :suspect: ... I must be the only one without that coat... :(






:p

[Chillimonster]

Damn... :suspect: ... I must be the only one without that coat... :(






:p


Nah,

I had that coat, but i put it down somewhere and now i can't find it :lol:

[Venomator]

Nah,

I had that coat, but i put it down somewhere and now i can't find it :lol:

I see... :shrug: ... I know of someone who has recently been showing one off a lot lately... :suspect:


:naughty:





:p

[gingerweasel]

I now have the updated Adobe Raw installed so I can view the RAW files within Photoshop. At first I was quite worried looking at them in SilkPix as the noise appeared to be quite bad. However once they have been processed the images look much better..

[zoidberg]

just reserved a GF1 with 20mm lens from Mathers to pick up tomorrow :clap:

But they mentioned there is a new promotion due in on Monday, GF1, 20mm + 14-45 for £789!!
Saving my pennies for the 14-140 though.

[AndyWest]

That's the deal i just got...... WOOOHOOOOO!!! :D

[zoidberg]

made just about enough from selling the D80 and all the bits to get the 14-140 as well, but will hang on for a while before getting that.

[gingerweasel]

Mathers are also handing out vouchers to get the warranty extended to 3 years for free ;)

They didn't have any left when I was there so he said he'd post me it.

[Flash In The Pan]

Yes I have. Looks like I'll be waiting a while before ordering a spare.

Before that though I've got to find a case. Has anyone found a case for the GF1 with 20mm attached? I don't want another bag, but something akin to the old ever-ready cases of days gone by would be nice, especially if it were brown leather like the ones Panasonic/Leica do for their compacts.

The offical Panasonic one looks a little drab for >£65

http://www.parkcameras.com/ProductImages/fullsize/dmw-cgl1-k.jpg


The really bad news is £65 is only for the top half of the case, as shown here, the other half....

http://sunny-life.net/data/panasonic/dmw-cgb1_black_b.jpg

will set you back another £50 or so, making a total of just under £120 :cuckoo:

[Hongsta299]

Dam that's a good price on the gf1 double lens kit, wish they had some in now. I'm leaving on a trip on Friday and the earliest they can get some is Monday :(

[Radiohead]

The really bad news is £65 is only for the top half of the case, as shown here, the other half....

http://sunny-life.net/data/panasonic/dmw-cgb1_black_b.jpg

will set you back another £50 or so, making a total of just under £120 :cuckoo:

wtf!

[py6km]

The really bad news is £65 is only for the top half of the case, as shown here, the other half....

will set you back another £50 or so, making a total of just under £120 :cuckoo:

Not according to the Panasonic website (http://shop.panasonic.co.uk/invt/dmwcgl1sek) - both parts are a shade over £60.

[AndyWest]

Currys super stores do a wide range of smaller bags.

[gingerweasel]

Currys super stores do a wide range of smaller bags.

I think the Lowepro Nova 160 AW is ideal for this camera and a few additional lenses. It's less than half the size of my previous kit bag.

Failing that any kind of large IPOD sock would be good for keeping it protecting in your jacket pocket [maybe even a small velvet lens bag].

[zoidberg]

mine will be living in a Kata DR467, might be overkill but when your out as a family, lots of space for kid's stuff is a must.
Got a slingshot 100 that should be ok, failing that see what santa will bring me.

[NorthernNikon]

I think the Lowepro Nova 160 AW is ideal for this camera and a few additional lenses. It's less than half the size of my previous kit bag.

Failing that any kind of large IPOD sock would be good for keeping it protecting in your jacket pocket [maybe even a small velvet lens bag].

I want a case though, not a bag, something brown and leather, like this:

http://www.redboxcameras.com/images/product/DLux4BROWN_CASE1224769660_615.jpg

[Flash In The Pan]

Sounds like a group buy of custom cases might be in order....

[gingerweasel]

I wouldn't mind a custom case for the GF1 and the 20mm. Something smaller than my bag for quick trips, travel to work.. so I can always have my little black box handy.

[Radiohead]

Sounds like a group buy of custom cases might be in order....

Count me in.

[68lbs]

Something brown and leather, like this...

I'd buy one of those just to hang round my neck and look cool. :D

[Flash In The Pan]

Not according to the Panasonic website (http://shop.panasonic.co.uk/invt/dmwcgl1sek) - both parts are a shade over £60.


That's interesting, because everywhere else the cases are being sold as two separate parts, or so it appears (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Panasonic-DMW-CGL1-K-Black-Leather-Lens-Case-DMC-GF1_W0QQitemZ360205063130QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_Def aultDomain_0?hash=item53dde513da)......

Sixty quid isn't quite so bad, at £120 you can (just about) get one of the handmade Italian Luigi cases.

[Diego Garcia]

Damn, i thought i was the only one with that coat. :(

Dual ownership is no problem, but I make it look good :lol::lol::lol::thumbs:

Glad to see the Geoff 1 club is expanding :wave:

[AndyWest]

Glad to see the Geoff 1 club is expanding :wave: I have seen it called the Girl Friend 1 :D

[Chillimonster]

Glad to see the Geoff 1 club is expanding :wave:

I have seen it called the Girl Friend 1 :D

:lol:

I suppose it depends which way you swing :D

[NorthernNikon]

:lol:

I suppose it depends which way you swing :D


You call your "Guy Friend 1" if you want, we won't hold it against you. :D

[Flash In The Pan]

You call your "Guy Friend 1" if you want, we won't hold it against you. :D

....or anywhere near you either :naughty:

[zoidberg]

the deed is done, i now have a GF1 in my possession. TIme to charge up the battery and rtfm.

[kluen]

I need to stop reading this thread, your all making me want one!

[DekHog]

I need to stop reading this thread, your all making me want one!

Normal lens lust replaced by mini-lens lust, eh? :D

[Chillimonster]

the deed is done, i now have a GF1 in my possession. TIme to charge up the battery and rtfm.

Welcome to the 'club'

:thumbs:

[DigitalRelish]

Come on, folks. Let's see some pics then. I want to see what it's capable of! :nuts:

[Chillimonster]

Come on, folks. Let's see some pics then. I want to see what it's capable of! :nuts:

Posted a thread up the other day.....

http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=178378

[DigitalRelish]

Yeah, I saw those. They look good, but would like to see some more especially if anyone's taken some landscape and especially contrasty landscape shots.

[phototuition]

It's a superb piece of work and functions beautifully either using bottom half only or both as a classic ERC. Highly recommended, picked mine up from Ask in Tot ct rd London for £55 along with camera.
I tried the 2.8 / 45mm in store there today and examined the raw images in the laptop. Expensive but what the hell, us cynical old pros need our fun, so i bought it and look forward to putting it through it's paces over the weekend.

[gingerweasel]

I haven't had much chance to take pictures with it yet but here is a flickr group filled with them:

http://www.flickr.com/groups/dmc-gf1/

[NorthernNikon]

I grabbed 20 minutes at lunchtime and wandered into town with my GF1. The links below take you to shots saved as 100% quality JPEGS (excpet 3 & 4 which were saved at 90% to get them under Flickr's 10MB limit) with no PP done on them.

GF1 test shots (http://www.flickr.com/photos/41666226@N07/sets/72157622659400785/)

Handling wise, I found it easy to use, even at hip height looking down at the screen at a fairly acute angle.

[AndyWest]

Well you can't argue about the quality! Really nice images. The DOF on the sign is great. Very nice :thumbs:

[Hongsta299]

Woot I've just joined the club got my GF-1 + 14-45 and 20mm :) Just waiting for the damn battery to charge, cant stop staring at it.....

[DigitalRelish]

Some really good examples linked to in this thread. Nice to see some shallow depth of field in play too.

[zoidberg]

first one i took,
need to get out and play in the real light. taken in the back room which has a daylight bulb in. Tricky keeping an 8 month old pup still

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2780/4096193980_698d096fa2_o.jpg

oh, and yes his eyes really are that blue!

[SussexBlue]

Interesting, Evil Nikon ;)
http://nikonrumors.com/category/nikon-evil

[Venomator]

Interesting, Evil Nikon ;)
http://nikonrumors.com/category/nikon-evil

:lol:

So then... :thinking: ... does that make the new breed EVIL DILDOs then... :naughty:




http://xrtheme.com/content/emoticons/Avatars/08.gif

[zoidberg]

So any one got any good settings for the C1 and C2 options?

Nice case would be good as well. Crumpler Jimmy Bo or Muffin Top look like they could do the trick.

[68lbs]

Looked at a Pen today as the shop I went to didn't have a GF1 in stock. Hmmm... lot bigger than I expected... it's hardly pocketable as an alternative for a compact. Looks like it's back to the drawing board for me.

[gingerweasel]

Here are a couple of shots I took with mine today. Not as good as those already posted but to give people an idea of what's being taken..

Both taken with the 20mm f1.7 lens

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2462/4098711589_1f994d8fcf_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2654/4098793685_5213df3e22_o.jpg

[AndyWest]

Thanks for posting. Those images are not bad at all. I think that 20mm f1.7 lens is a real winner and is up there with the best of them!

It would be interesting to see how the images compare with the 14-45mm lens.

My GF1 is apparently being delivered to Mathers today and should be with me on Tuesday. I hope the weather brightens up by then!

[Chillimonster]

Some of my remembrance day images are with the 14-54 - but i cant remember which!!

I know the brass band reflection is for certain......

[Hongsta299]

Images between the two kit lenses are similar at the same aperture IMO.
The main benefits of the 20mm is it's size (or rather lack of) and fast aperture.
The 14-45 is much quicker in focusing Though and sooooo much quieter in operation, you can't hear it focussing whereas the 20mm you can hear it from arms length away.

[AndyWest]

Very interesting. It's good to know the quality is there with the 14-45!

Olympus are bringing out a 9-18mm f4-f5.6 lens for their new E-P2 which is due in January. That's going to be a good lens i think. I take it the mounts are the same??

[NorthernNikon]

it's hardly pocketable as an alternative for a compact.

It depends on how big your pockets are! :lol:

I'll take a comparison shot of my GF1 next to my D300 and compact to give others an idea of size.

[Flash In The Pan]

It depends on how big your pockets are! :lol:

I'll take a comparison shot of my GF1 next to my D300 and compact to give others an idea of size.

It's not any bigger than the likes of a G10, fits in my pocket nicely :shrug:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2611/3974790185_8059d235d1.jpg

[Kev M]

What about a side on shot FITP?

[Radiohead]

It's a superb piece of work and functions beautifully either using bottom half only or both as a classic ERC. Highly recommended, picked mine up from Ask in Tot ct rd London for £55 along with camera.
I tried the 2.8 / 45mm in store there today and examined the raw images in the laptop. Expensive but what the hell, us cynical old pros need our fun, so i bought it and look forward to putting it through it's paces over the weekend.

If you get a chance would you be able to post any images of the case on the GF1?

[68lbs]

It's not any bigger than the likes of a G10, fits in my pocket nicely :shrug:

Hmm, not at that angle. Is it smaller than the Oly?

Any chance of a side view comparison with the G10/11?

A comparison with the LX3 would be nice too.

[AndyWest]

Just got a call from Mathers of Lancashire and my GF1 will be with me tomorrow, can't wait!! I'll post up some pics when i have had a play.

[Chillimonster]

Just got a call from Mathers of Lancashire and my GF1 will be with me tomorrow, can't wait!! I'll post up some pics when i have had a play.

Enjoy it - I am :thumbs:

[gingerweasel]

I should be getting my 45-200mm off them tomorrow - can't wait.

[gingerweasel]

I should be getting my 45-200mm off them tomorrow - can't wait.

Actually scrap that... just called now to confirm it will be delivered tomorrow [been on order for a week] and was informed that it hadn't arrived today as expected. Their next delivery is next week..

Pretty poor service .. they didn't even call to tell me I wouldn't be getting it tomorrow :bang::bang: [or is it just me being inpatient?]

[springtide]

Hmm, not at that angle. Is it smaller than the Oly?

Any chance of a side view comparison with the G10/11?

A comparison with the LX3 would be nice too.

I think the GF1 is slightly smaller than the E-P1, but only slightly.

The biggest difference with the M43's compared to say a G11 is the lens size.

On the G11, the lens fits into the body. Obviously on the M43's this sticks out, so to compare the two you need to decide what lens you would like to compare.

If you are talking about comparing the zoom lenses, then this is a useful page, that compares the size of the Oly zoom lens (14-42) with the Panasonic (14-45):
http://www.photozone.de/olympus--four-thirds-lens-tests/452-oly_m1442_3556

As you'll see, this is where the Oly has the advantage with regards to size, although the review states that they believe the design is optimised for sze rather than quality (although doesn't get a bad review).

With the pancake lenses attached, these are very small:
http://www.photozone.de/olympus--four-thirds-lens-tests/464-pana_20_17
http://www.photozone.de/olympus--four-thirds-lens-tests/468-oly_17_28

I would guess if you compared the GF1 (with 20/1.7) with the G11 there wouldn't be a lot of difference. But the GF1 with the 14-45 & EVF the difference would be a lot bigger.

These cameras are not really compact size and yet they are not really SLR size (and the options can really change the size of the camera).

One of the problems with most of the reviews I've seen is that they are either compared to compacts (and the reviewers complain about the size), or dSLR's (and the reviewers complain about the features: viewfinder, AF speed etc).
I guess this is inevitable until more of these type (or EVIL) cameras come to market, so that they can be compared against their piers. It's not just reviewers either - the people at work who have played with my E-P1 also say the same. Once you get out of that mindset that it's not a dSLR or Compact these camera make much more sense. The problem is, unlike APS-C vs FF, the prices of these M43's cameras are high compared to both APS-C dSLRs and Compacts.

I would say, if you are wanting to compare the size of the GF1 with a compact, the GF1 will be too big.

For me, the biggest difference between the E-P1 and my dSLR, is that I can leave the E-P1 hanging around my neck all day without it bothering me. It's not really going to fit in my pocket like a compact, but it will give 'almost dSLR quality' (figure of speech).
My wife thinks the E-P1 is too large (and wants me to sell it), but I think the IQ quality of the compacts that she would find acceptable regarding size, not good enough to leave my dSLR at home.

[HoppyUK]

snip

...For me, the biggest difference between the E-P1 and my dSLR, is that I can leave the E-P1 hanging around my neck all day without it bothering me. It's not really going to fit in my pocket like a compact, but it will give 'almost dSLR quality' (figure of speech).
My wife thinks the E-P1 is too large (and wants me to sell it), but I think the IQ quality of the compacts that she would find acceptable regarding size, not good enough to leave my dSLR at home.

Good point :thumbs:

It's no good trying to pretent that these cameras are really pocketable. While the camera bodies themselves are quite small and slim, the lenses are not. The benefit is in the lack of weight.

In terms of 'power to weight ratio' these cameras pack a heck of a lot of picture potential into a very handy unit.

[NorthernNikon]

It's no good trying to pretent that these cameras are really pocketable.

I think they are if you use the right lenses. Certainly, the GF-1 with the 20mm will easily slip into my coat pocket and when my Novoflex adaptor turns up tomorrow I'll be able to tell you how compact it is with my Nikkor 45mm f:2.8 pancake.

[woof woof]

I took my GF1 with 20mm f1.7 out at the weekend and it fitted easily into my jacket pocket, it isn't a big jacket either. The camera is too bulky for a trouser or shirt pocket but should fit in many jacket pockets without problem.

[HoppyUK]

I think they are if you use the right lenses. Certainly, the GF-1 with the 20mm will easily slip into my coat pocket and when my Novoflex adaptor turns up tomorrow I'll be able to tell you how compact it is with my Nikkor 45mm f:2.8 pancake.

I took my GF1 with 20mm f1.7 out at the weekend and it fitted easily into my jacket pocket, it isn't a big jacket either. The camera is too bulky for a trouser or shirt pocket but should fit in many jacket pockets without problem.

Isn't the whole point of an interchangeable lens camera that you can fit whatever lens you like? And most of them are going to be far bigger than 20mm f/1.7 (sweeet lens though it is).

If you use a GF1 like this you are not benefiting from one of its greatest assets. That's obviously fine if it suits you, but if that was all I wanted to do I'd get a Leica X1 which, if they'd only given it interchangeable lenses, would be flying the Leica flag high and mighty right now, IMHO.

[Flash In The Pan]

Isn't the whole point of an interchangeable lens camera that you can fit whatever lens you like? And most of them are going to be far bigger than 20mm f/1.7 (sweeet lens though it is).

If you use a GF1 like this you are not benefiting from one of its greatest assets. That's obviously fine if it suits you, but if that was all I wanted to do I'd get a Leica X1 which, if they'd only given it interchangeable lenses, would be flying the Leica flag high and mighty right now, IMHO.


You're just looking for an empty room to start an arguement in aren't you, Richard? :naughty:

If the X1 had interchangeable lenses it would be £2800.....






and called the M8 :lol:

[NorthernNikon]

Isn't the whole point of an interchangeable lens camera that you can fit whatever lens you like? And most of them are going to be far bigger than 20mm f/1.7 (sweeet lens though it is).

If you use a GF1 like this you are not benefiting from one of its greatest assets. That's obviously fine if it suits you, but if that was all I wanted to do I'd get a Leica X1 which, if they'd only given it interchangeable lenses, would be flying the Leica flag high and mighty right now, IMHO.

Did you miss the bit about the Nikkor 45mm pancake? :thinking:

[woof woof]

I might buy another lens for my GF1 at some point, for example one with a shorter focus turn and some marking would be nice, but I think that my GF1 is going to spend the vast majority of it's life with one main lens and that's fine with me just as it's fine with me that I only use one lens on my Bessa R. It is what it is and that's part of it's charm.

I see the GF1 as a genuine quality digital alternative to my Bessa R, Olympus Trip and Cononet in that it can offer image quality to rival a larger camera just as the images from my more compact 35mm cameras can rival those from my EOS 30 SLR.

For the first time I now have a compact digital that I can use when I don't want to use my DSLR that's responsive and easy and quick to use and can produce images that rival those from my DSLR away from ISO 100. I don't think that any compact digital has so well filled this role for me before. The LX2 comes close but falls down for me in anything but really good light.

For me the big advantages of the GF1 are it's relatively compact size, relative ease of use, the quality of it's images and the possibilities offered by a reasonably fast lens. Adding a bigger lens to the mix would change the character for me and although I might get a zoom one day at the moment it's an outside possibility.

I might be wrong but I don't think that there's a more compact digital on the market that can match the GF1 for picture quality and speed of operation. I haven't taken an interest in the Leica so at the moment I'm still very happy with my choice and if I want a small zoom I'll take my LX2 and hope for good light.

[NorthernNikon]

Just to add re the Leica X1, my interest has cooled a little after a) seeng how good the Gf-1 actually is and b) reading this. (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/x1-field.shtml)

[Flash In The Pan]

Just to add re the Leica X1, my interest has cooled a little after a) seeng how good the Gf-1 actually is and b) reading this. (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/x1-field.shtml)


"Very pretty, but can they fight?"


For street photography it would appear from that review that the answer is "no"

[NorthernNikon]

For street photography it would appear from that review that the answer is "no"

Indeed. Though as has been pointed out, many street shooters will pre focus manually. One of the few criticisms I have of the GF-1 is that there is no distance scale on the 20mm f:1.7. I appreciate that there is little room on the lens itself, but it surely can't be too hard to have it available on the screen? My prefered method of shooting street would be to prefocus at around 10 feet and let the depth of field at f:5.6 or f:8 take care of the rest.

[woof woof]

I wonder if a firmware update could add prefocus points at various distances, like the switch on an Olympus Trip. That'd be great.

[HoppyUK]

You're just looking for an empty room to start an arguement in aren't you, Richard? :naughty:

If the X1 had interchangeable lenses it would be £2800.....

and called the M8 :lol:

Not at all ;) I've just read the Luminous Landscape review of the X1 linked by NN. It is disappointing. And I do want to like that camera.

Seems like the X1 is half finished with a rather average screen and slow AF. That's unforgiveable. It's almost as if Panasonic wouldn't give their partner the technology they needed... :thinking:

And that's quite apart from it having a fixed lens. I can't think of a single reason why they didn't give it interchangeable lenses - no technical reasons, no brand philosophy reasons, nor marketing reasons. The best I can come up with is that Leica hasn't got a range of APS-C lenses to equip it with, but then they didn't have that for the new S2 either and they've found the time to make those. (Well, allegedly - its introduction has been delayed again.) Why is Leica persisting with that big fat S2 nonsense of a camera, that fills a non-existent niche somewhere above the clouds? At least the X1 has some market appeal, but Leica's unfathomable business intuition has never made any sense to me. Hey ho.

Did you miss the bit about the Nikkor 45mm pancake? :thinking:

No. What did I miss? It's another prime, actually designed for full frame and with a modest f/number. And as such it's very restricted; no substitute for a walkabout zoom.

Just to add re the Leica X1, my interest has cooled a little after a) seeng how good the Gf-1 actually is and b) reading this. (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/x1-field.shtml)

Good link, thanks :thumbs: Shame though :(

Indeed. Though as has been pointed out, many street shooters will pre focus manually. One of the few criticisms I have of the GF-1 is that there is no distance scale on the 20mm f:1.7. I appreciate that there is little room on the lens itself, but it surely can't be too hard to have it available on the screen? My prefered method of shooting street would be to prefocus at around 10 feet and let the depth of field at f:5.6 or f:8 take care of the rest.

It seems to me that the GF1 is appealing to two different types of photographer. I think it's aimed pretty much squarely at the high end compact user, but enthusiasts like us see it as something rather different, and rather more - basically a baby Leica in the more serious reportage mould. And in that sense its more consumer orientation falls a little short in one or two areas.

They seem to be relative details though and, given that we will see a lot more cameras like this very soon, they will be sorted out. I think these new EVIL cameras are the most exciting thing to happen in a very long time, and that we ain't seen nuffin yet.

[springtide]

I wonder if a firmware update could add prefocus points at various distances, like the switch on an Olympus Trip. That'd be great.

On the E-P1, when you select MF - as soon as you twist the MF ring it zooms to aid manual focusing. And when you press the shutter hald way down, it switches back to a full view.

I think even if there was a focus scale, I would probably not bother to use it.
I read that due to the sensor size of the M43's, f8 is the equiv of f13 on FF in terms of DOF, so focusing using a scale is less critical (and it's not as if you are going to be measuring the distance with a tape etc)


For me, I think it's just as quick/easy to just point the camera at what you want to focus on, start focusing and get correct focus using the focus assist zoom, and then press the shutter half way down to frame and shoot, and then all the way down to shoot.

I'm sure I read that the GF1 has something similar in terms of the focus aid etc.

[AndyWest]

Received my GF1 about half an hour ago!!! Whoop Whoop!!!

Just waiting for the battery to charge! Yawn!

Anyhoo here's a pic of the camera:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2596/4111759569_01ae307617.jpg

[woof woof]

Yes, it's the same on the GF1, it zooms to aid focus...but...

There are no marking on the lens so you can't just set it (for example) to focus at 6 feet other than by focusing at something 6 feet away first.

You can move the GF1's focus point about on the screen but I personally find that to be a slow and fiddly thing to do. Focusing and recomposing can obviously give problems as when you recompose your position and distance relative to your subject change. I realise that 4/3 has greater depth of field but even so it's possible to run into problems when recomposing after focusing.

The advantage of pre focus or zone focus or hyperfocal focus and things like that is that you don't need to focus on your subject. This has obvious advantages in some situations.

It'd be a nice touch if the 20mm f1.7 had markings or if there could be some other way of pre focusing, either by a scale on the display or preset distances selected on screen or by pressing a button.

[NorthernNikon]

Seems like the X1 is half finished with a rather average screen and slow AF. That's unforgiveable. It's almost as if Panasonic wouldn't give their partner the technology they needed... :thinking:

Rumours have it that the X1 is made by Nikon. If this is true than I would suspect that it's more a case Nikon retaining some technology for a future Nikon badge EVIL camera.

And that's quite apart from it having a fixed lens. I can't think of a single reason why they didn't give it interchangeable lenses - no technical reasons, no brand philosophy reasons, nor marketing reasons. The best I can come up with is that Leica hasn't got a range of APS-C lenses to equip it with, but then they didn't have that for the new S2 either and they've found the time to make those. (Well, allegedly - its introduction has been delayed again.) Why is Leica persisting with that big fat S2 nonsense of a camera, that fills a non-existent niche somewhere above the clouds? At least the X1 has some market appeal, but Leica's unfathomable business intuition has never made any sense to me. Hey ho.

There is a very clear and obvious reason why Leica won't release a smaller camera with interchangable lenses - it would destory the market for the M9. This has happened before in the days of film and nearly saw the end of the company as a whole.

No. What did I miss? It's another prime, actually designed for full frame and with a modest f/number. And as such it's very restricted; no substitute for a walkabout zoom.

Well you've confused me there. On the one hand tyou're saying that the point of an interchangable lens camera is using a choice of lenses, on the other you're saying that a 'walkabout zoom' is best?

Traditionally rangefinder user would have a pair of complimentary lenses, often a 35mm and 90mm, so the 20mm and 45mm are just the modern day equivilent.

[NorthernNikon]

Yes, it's the same on the GF1, it zooms to aid focus...but...

... not with MF lenses used with an adaptor :bang:

It'd be a nice touch if the 20mm f1.7 had markings or if there could be some other way of pre focusing, either by a scale on the display or preset distances selected on screen or by pressing a button.

You can work it out, roughly, by focusing on something 10 ft away and marking how far the focus ring has been turned, but it's not ideal.

[woof woof]

I'm only nit picking.

A shorter rotation on the lens and makings would be great and maybe one day there'll be a lens to make me completely, 100% happy, but unlike you I'll want to keep autofocus and therefore wont be using a lens that can only be used manually.

I have thought of marking the lens...but I can't bring myself to, prefocusing on something 6 feet away seems like a better idea.

[Flash In The Pan]

Rumours have it that the X1 is made by Nikon. If this is true than I would suspect that it's more a case Nikon retaining some technology for a future Nikon badge EVIL camera.





Leica have now stated that this isn't the case, rumours still abound of a new Nikon camera in the style of the X1 though

[NorthernNikon]

I'm only nit picking.

A shorter rotation on the lens and makings would be great and maybe one day there'll be a lens to make me completely, 100% happy, but unlike you I'll want to keep autofocus and therefore wont be using a lens that can only be used manually.

I have thought of marking the lens...but I can't bring myself to, prefocusing on something 6 feet away seems like a better idea.

Ironically, the Nikkor has a distance scale but I'll be using that for portraits so no prefocusing there, while the 20mm f:1.7 doesn't and that's the one I'd want to prefocus. :bang:

[HoppyUK]

Rumours have it that the X1 is made by Nikon. If this is true than I would suspect that it's more a case Nikon retaining some technology for a future Nikon badge EVIL camera.

I hadn't heard that, but even if it isn't made by Nikon (as FITP says above) the fact that it is not made by Leica (only assembled by them) and it seems neither did Panasonic make it, then I'm wondering what benefits there is to Leica being partners with Panasonic?

I always thought it was purely a marriage of convenience, basically little more than Leica putting their name on Lumix lenses while Pano built the brand, in exchange for money (I never dreamt that Leica actually designed the things). I'm now thinking that maybe Leica has served its purpose for Panasonic and they'll be on their own with Leica-branded cameras. Which is a shame, because there is a lot of new technology that Leica clearly has little expertise in, and even fewer resources to develop .

With Leica, things were ever thus... :(

There is a very clear and obvious reason why Leica won't release a smaller camera with interchangable lenses - it would destory the market for the M9. This has happened before in the days of film and nearly saw the end of the company as a whole.

I follow your thinking, but do you think so? I guess it could well explain things. The upside of that thinking is that if EVIL cameras do indeed develop into the 'new age Leica' for a larger market and run alongside the M9 in it's elevated niche (even promoting customers up to it) then there is nothing stopping Leica from producing the X1 with all its little niggles fixed and an interchangeable lens mount :thumbs: I'm never going to buy and M9, but I could be very temped by an EVIL X1.

Well you've confused me there. On the one hand tyou're saying that the point of an interchangable lens camera is using a choice of lenses, on the other you're saying that a 'walkabout zoom' is best?

Traditionally rangefinder user would have a pair of complimentary lenses, often a 35mm and 90mm, so the 20mm and 45mm are just the modern day equivilent.

Ah, okay. I see where you're coming from. That's cool :)

[springtide]

Leica have now stated that this isn't the case, rumours still abound of a new Nikon camera in the style of the X1 though

Here goes.... [please don't flame me!]

Personally, I think APS-C is too large a sensor for this 'space' (meaning the GF1 & E-P1|2 type of cameras). The problem is, it's not the sensor size that is the issue, but the lenses that you need to match the sensor. Even modest lenses like the 14-45mm increase the size of the body compared to the pancake, and the 14-45 can hardly be considered a fast zoom. The standard zoom lens of the Oly is the main reason why I personally prefer the Oly over the GF1, with the 'compromised' folding design of the Oly kit zoom lens being preferable to the larger 14-45mm of the GF1.
And obviously using the Oly kit lens with the GF1 is not great as the Oly has 'body IS' where as the GF1's have OS 'in the lens' (can obviously be done, but you'd loose IS/OS)

I think the GF1 is about as large as I'd want one of these cameras, and I'm even a little against the EVF's a little as by the time you add one of these, then why not buy yourself a small dSLR and be done with it?


Looking at the adapters for the manual focus lenses on Ebay, it appears that none of them have electrical connections - which I assume means no focus assist - as there is no way for the body to know you are turning the focus ring.

This for me was a show stopper, as I'd love to be able to shoot with very narrow DOF on the Oly (and attach my Sony f1.4 primes), but unless you can easily manual focus with such a shallow DOF (which is not an easy task with LV or an EVF), then it seems a little bit pointless.
Personally I struggle manually focusing my FF + 135/2.8 wide open if the lights not bright, and that has a massive class leading optical viewfinder, so I have no hope with a LV M43.

[Chillimonster]

Received my GF1 about half an hour ago!!! Whoop Whoop!!!

Just waiting for the battery to charge! Yawn!

Anyhoo here's a pic of the camera:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2596/4111759569_01ae307617.jpg

:popcorn:

Well, whats the verdict :)

[gingerweasel]

:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

Pics, pics, pics .....

[AndyWest]

OK, i will do a proper assessment in a new thread but just for now the most important thing for me is NO DEAD PIXELS!!! WOOO HOOO!!:clap:

The other is that it's a great all in one package and so well built. The rear screen is very good with a high quality display and the menu system is dead easy to navigate and use but it's not a million miles from my Lumix TZ6 so easy for me.

I have taken a few images but it was dark outside so i had to take pics inside. At ISO100 the image quality is very good but at 400 it has noticeable noise. The pics i took were again crap because the light was poor even for the 20mm f1.7 so i will take some pics tomorrow in natural light. The pics i took tonight were not worthy of processing!!!!

So far i'm loving it!! Proof will really be when i use it on a proper day out but looking good so far. I'll take some pics and pop them up tomorrow.

Am i happy..........Yup!!:thumbs:

[Chillimonster]

Glad you're liking it.

Noise is relative. I had the D700 and loved the clean imaged, but i've always found the noise issue on 4/3rds sensors to be over emphasised. The images i'm shooting have more 'grain' than noise, and they do clean up quite nicely, but i did a little experiment and printed out some images from the Oly E-3, Canon 50D, Oly E-30, D700, and Pany GF1, and at A4 there is very little difference in the outputted image.

Of course at 100% on screen its a different matter, but i made the decision to not be so anal about it and just love the camer for what it is - a high quality small flexible bit of kit.

[NorthernNikon]

Of course at 100% on screen its a different matter, but i made the decision to not be so anal about it and just love the camer for what it is - a high quality small flexible bit of kit.

If only more people had that attitude towards their kit.

[Chillimonster]

It's taken me two years and a lot of money to realise this. I think it's because people are so used to looking at pictures at pixel level on monitors, and very few actually print out.

Hell, i even have some poster sized prints from my little Fuji F31, Olympus 1030SW, and Canon S2-IS and they look fantastic on the wall.

[AndyWest]

I am aiming to be the same and just enjoy the images i take. There's no right or wrong, just the enjoyment of liking what you take.

Ok i have taken a few pics. I did these resting on the coffee table and on a timer. Fitted was the 20mm f1.7 lens.

Images is straight out the camera:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2550/4112785577_81534bef43_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/andywest1/4112785577/)

This is a crop with a little sharpening and PP:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2483/4113554652_dbbc4337f7_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/andywest1/4113554652/)

[woof woof]

These are round about 100% or so crops but it varied to make them more or less the same size.

1 - 20D, 50mm f1.4 at f8.
2 - GF1, 20mm f1.7 at f4.
3 - LX2 at f4.5.
4 - Ixus 82 at god knows what settings, it says f4.

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn313/alans70/1-20D.jpg

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn313/alans70/2-GF1.jpg

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn313/alans70/3-LX2.jpg

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn313/alans70/4-IXUS82.jpg

The Ixus has made a complete mess of it and even at ISO 100 there is noise, plus the exposure seems to be off.

There's obviously some in camera processing going on in the GF1 and the exposure is a little too punchy, but it's still great with lots of detail.

The LX2 does surprisingly well at ISO 100.

The 20D shades them all IMVHO, but the GF1 is bloody good and the LX2 is by no means shabby at base sensitivity.

[AndyWest]

The GF1 for detail and over all look wins hands down for me with those images above!!

[gingerweasel]

Just a quick note....

I've just found the Panasonic 45-200mm on Amazon [in stock] for £249. That's the best price I've seen on my travels so I thought I'd let you guys know.

[NorthernNikon]

Just a quick note....

I've just found the Panasonic 45-200mm on Amazon [in stock] for £249. That's the best price I've seen on my travels so I thought I'd let you guys know.

Stop it! I've already said that I dont want to start building another system, but that is exceedingly good value.

[Nifkin]

Haha u bunch of anoraks! Yes, it is well lovely, but you'll get bored of it/it will get superceded well before the cows come home.

Now stop waving your wonga about and do something useful.

[gingerweasel]

I just cancelled my order with Mathers and bought one from Amazon. I spoke to a guy called Jonathan at Mathers today and he said they are having trouble getting supply of these.. Panasonic can't make them fast enough.

45mm Macro and 7-14mm Wide next ....


Haha u bunch of anoraks! Yes, it is well lovely, but you'll get bored of it/it will get superceded well before the cows come home.

Now stop waving your wonga about and do something useful.


I was headed down that route with my Nikon kit, wanting better lenses, more this, more that. The GF1 is going to be with me for some time.... It does what I need and so far has proven to do it well.

[AndyWest]

45mm Macro and 7-14mm Wide next .... oooh macro..now theres a thought!!

[gingerweasel]

oooh macro..now theres a thought!!

So far it's the only dedicated lens which hasn't met with a standing ovation. DPReview are not that fussed on it..

http://www.dpreview.com/lensreviews/panasonic_45_2p8_o20/

Particularly as a portrait lens...

[Flash In The Pan]

Just a quick note....

I've just found the Panasonic 45-200mm on Amazon [in stock] for £249. That's the best price I've seen on my travels so I thought I'd let you guys know.

Being that the review on Amazon states that the lens is "Considerably heavier than the camera it's designed to work with" (in that case the G1), I'd want to try one on my camera before parting with any cash as there's a good chance of the whole unit being nose-heavy and unbalanced...