D1x on auto...

[Ambermile]

Let's get this said up front first... I know I shouldn't, but my excuse is I only just got it so I had to. There, that said can anyone that knows about these things confirm that if you set up the camera as per the manual for first use (i.e. a complete reset to standard settings) then the camera takes absolutely poo pictures exposure-wise? Mostly under-exposed but large blocks of colour - like a telephone box) saturated to the point of unusability. Pushing the brightness on the computer afterwards should not really be an option, running the camera alongside the Canon (300D, D1x has 18-50 while Canon has 18-55 but zoom on both similar) I get differing decisions and better pics from the Canon.

This is worrying...


Arthur

[lawrenceots]

Arthur, if you could post some pics you've taken with those issues, or email, I can see if thats how it was for me when I had it, as I still have the pics I took. Remember though, keep it in Adobe RGB, turn doen the sat and make sure its not on centreweighted/spot metering or something.

[Dangermouse1964]

Arthur the D1x doesnt have auto, are yo thinking A is auto....its Aperture priority we have a D1x if you need some settings sorting out:thumbs:

[Ambermile]

No, it has "P" which, according to the manual you select, then reset everything by holding the two buttons on the small pad down, and you are in basic, easy-pic mode. So far, it's been not so good really - the Canon had to come oput and save the day yesterday.

OK, here's a couple, the first with the Canon taken maybe a week ago, just before the snow and the second taken with the D1x. None have any processing bar the compression, Canon on green box, nikon on factory reset. Canon with Canon 18-55, nikon with Sigma 18-55. Note on the Nikon pic, just about *everything* is washed out!

http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/rr136/Ambermile/bax-canon.jpg




http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/rr136/Ambermile/bax-nikon.jpg


With a shot of, say, a landscape, the camera is usually *way* under.

[Dangermouse1964]

Please dont think I am trying to make you look .....anyway put the Nikon on M and shutter at 1/320 f12 and take the same shot you will see a difference as for program mode I have never used it I stick to manual all the time and get some great results with the D1X.that said though you do have to work the settings a bit for the results as the tft isnt the best and does look dark so you may be looking at this and adjusting which is not the way to go ......... forget the preview and follow your instincts, my missus owns the D1X we have and could explain a bit better

[lawrenceots]

to me that just looks like the metering is wrong. You have metered for the box, hence the brighter background is washed out as there are too many tones for the camera to cope with. There is lots of fringing in the canon shot, but thats mainly because of the cheap lens. Personally, nothing there would worry me - its an awkward shot to start of with.

[Ambermile]

No, I don;t think that and yes, I can set it manually but sometimes I don;t want to! If I cannot trust the meter on the camera then I may as well go and get something a lot simpler and cheaper - which was the main point I guess - is this camera pointless if you rely on it's meter?

Lawrence, if I had metered for the box surely I would be able to see it... most of the detail - that makes it a suitable subject - is washed out!

[lawrenceots]

Just looking at the shots again, from what I can see, the only reason the Nikon looks more washed out is because there are no branches in the top right area? If you look at the canon shot, its just as washed out but the trees disguise the highlights.

[Ambermile]

Here's one with lots of snow, so would expect it to be a bit difficult, taken with the Leica...


http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/rr136/Ambermile/pb-2-800.jpg



See the difference now?


Lawrence, look at the BOX!!! There is no detail, it is all red! Washed away all the detail! Forget the trees, I expect that - look at the subject!

[lawrenceots]

that doesn't have as many blown highlights, but it is a different scene and would no doubt have had a different aperture/shutter combination..?

[Ambermile]

It's tha same box and you can see all the nasty green stuff on the box - but with the nikon it's all washed out by the red.

Anyway, we shall see when the batteries are charged up I suppose! Onwards and upwards :)

Arthur

[Dangermouse1964]

The Leica shot looks drab and underexposed to me yet the whites are ok. it does look like user error .......... sorry

[lawrenceots]

yes once the batteries are charged up, post photos and we'll see what they look like etc. I'm sure it will work out. :)

[Ambermile]

OK, for comparison (and fairness) this is a manually-set shot with the Nikon and messed with a little - but my initial point remains - I sometimes don't want to have to stop and think, I want to set to auto and follow some action!

http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/rr136/Ambermile/DSC_0031-800.jpg

[Ambermile]

The Leica shot looks drab and underexposed to me yet the whites are ok. it does look like user error .......... sorry

Well, it is a film shot scanned... but does not take away from the point that the nikon shot, given that it was set as per the manual for point and click, is badly exposed.


As I said though, whatever. Once the camera is in tip-top charge we shall see.

[lawrenceots]

I understand about wanting to just shoot auto - why I suggest RAW and say -0.3 exposure, then you won't have blown highlight when you process them. As you know, RAW records greater tonal range/detail because the raw shot is 'straight out of the camera' rather than processed to look better by the camera, which, after all, is not photoshop. This was typical of the Canon - over zealous Jpegs.

[Dangermouse1964]

Arthur could you post a pic with the exif data still intact, that way we may be able to help you out mate as the camera is doing its bit but it looks like the settings are out:thumbs:

[Ambermile]

The only way I can compress right now is with pix3 and that strips exif. The settings are as the camera sets them as "default", but as I said, all batteries are or were flat so no point using those images.

[Image]
Image Description =
Make = NIKON CORPORATION
Model = NIKON D1X
X Resolution = 300
Y Resolution = 300
Resolution Unit = inch
Software = Ver.5.01
Date Time = 2010-01-25 13:16:13
YCbCr Positioning = co-sited
Exif IFD Pointer = Offset: 252
GPS Info IFD Pointer = Offset: 27766

[Camera]
Exposure Time = 1/80"
F Number = F5.6
Exposure Program = Normal program
Exif Version = Version 2.2
Date Time Original = 2010-01-25 13:16:13
Date Time Digitized = 2010-01-25 13:16:13
Components Configuration = YCbcr
Compressed Bits Per Pixel = 4
Exposure Bias Value = ±0EV
Max Aperture Value = F5.66
Metering Mode = Spot
Light Source = Cloudy weather
Flash = Off
Focal Length = 50mm
Maker Note = 26858 Byte
User Comment =
Subsec Time = 0.27"
Subsec Time Original = 0.27"
Subsec Time Digitized = 0.27"
Flashpix Version = Version 1.0
Color Space = sRGB
Exif Image Width = 3008
Exif Image Height = 1960
Interoperability IFD Pointer = Offset: 27736
Sensing Method = One-chip color area sensor
File Source = DSC
Scene Type = A directly photographed image
CFA Pattern = [B,G],
[G,R]
Custom Rendered = Normal process
Exposure Mode = Auto exposure
White Balance = Manual white balance
Digital Zoom Ratio = 1x
Focal Length In 35mm Film = 75mm
Scene Capture Type = Normal
Gain Control = None
Contrast = Normal
Saturation = Normal
Sharpness = Normal
Subject Distance Range = unknown

[Interoperability]
Interoperability Index = ExifR98
Interoperability Version = Version 1.0

[Thumbnail Info]
Compression = JPEG Compressed (Thumbnail)
X Resolution = 300
Y Resolution = 300
Resolution Unit = inch
JPEG Interchange Format = Offset: 27890
JPEG Interchange Format Length = Length: 4938
YCbCr Positioning = co-sited

[Thumbnail]
Thumbnail = 160 x 120

[MakerNote (Nikon)]
Makernote Version = 0200
ISO Speed Used = 200
Colour Mode = COLOR
Quality = FINE
White Balance = CLOUDY
Sharpening = NORMAL
Focus Mode = MANUAL
Flash Setting =
Auto Flash Mode =
White Balance Bias Value = 0
White Balance Red, Blue Coefficients = 589/256, 289/256, 256/256, 256/256
000D = 00, 01, 03, 00
Exposure Diff = 00, 01, 0C, 00
ThumbOffset = 640
Tone Compensation (Contrast) = NORMAL
Lens Type = Nikon D series Lens
Lens Min/Max Focal Length, Max Aperture = 180/10, 500/10, 35/10, 56/10
Flash Used = Flash Not Used
Auto Focus Area = 00, 00, 00, 00
Bracketing & Shooting Mode = 0
008A = 0
008B = 40, 01, 0C, 00
Colour Mode = MODE1
008E = 393/512, -41/512, -109/512, 383/512
Lighting Type = NATURAL
0091 = 30, 31, 30, 30, 00, 00, 00, 00, 25, 3C, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 74, 05, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00
Hue Adjustmen = 3
0098 = 30, 31, 30, 30, 05, 74, 26, 40, 2D, 50, 2C, 3C, 1C, 18, 3C, 15, 6D, 1D, 66, 00
009A = 59/10, 59/10


Lawrence, if I set compensation then I have to do that for every shot, there seems to be no way to set it in the custom settings for global permanence?

[Dangermouse1964]

Download this Arthur

http://www.nikonimglib.com/nefcodec/

[babytiger]

Arthur I bought my D1X and done a reset by the book and everything I took was underexposed by about 3 stops.I had the Nikon D70 before this and the settings are completely different.Also the TFT screen is quite dark,which was another thing I had to get used to.I got DM to set camera up and it is now the best camera I have had and takes a cracking shot,and my shots are action shots e.g. aircraft
Also I never go by AP OR SP ,I shoot manual,its just a case of trying different settings and finding which ones you prefer.
Just play,experiment and enjoy and get to know this camera and settings

[Ambermile]

That codec only alters the output, not the settings?

With the Canon I mostly used aperture priority, there is no option for this I can find as the camera gives an error if I move the lens from f/22 no matter what setting I choose! I really do want to get on with this but so far it is looking like there's so much hassle involved. I realise I am moving from a camera built for mr average to something that definitely was not, but even so it should take a picture when set to defaults surely? Is that so much to ask?

Arthur

[Dangermouse1964]

That codec only alters the output, not the settings?

With the Canon I mostly used aperture priority, there is no option for this I can find as the camera gives an error if I move the lens from f/22 no matter what setting I choose! I really do want to get on with this but so far it is looking like there's so much hassle involved. I realise I am moving from a camera built for mr average to something that definitely was not, but even so it should take a picture when set to defaults surely? Is that so much to ask?

Arthur


This is simple ..... you are altering the aperture ring on the lens, DONT simply adjust with the rear dial wheel for aperture and leave the lens set at f22

[Dogfish_magnet]

You should set the body to A and leave the lens on F/22 and set the aperture from the body - if it works the same as a D300.


Beat me to it DM !

[Ambermile]

Yup - it does, but then I am back to that crap metering issue! I know I can do that, and I can set shutter the same, but the camera sets the other one and it is absolutely no good at estimating exposures - my entire point in this thread! So far people have said the Leica is a bit flat and the Canon also over exposed, but no one has said "Oh look, that picture of the phone box has had all the detail burnt out of it" have they? I know the LCD is a bit dark, even though it is on +5 in the settings, I know how to read the manual to set the camera up, but underpinning anything I do is the assumption that the camera knows best. Without resorting to a light meter and full manual I am struggling to get a decent image here.

Arthur

[lawrenceots]

The only way I can compress right now is with pix3 and that strips exif. The settings are as the camera sets them as "default", but as I said, all batteries are or were flat so no point using those images.

[Image]
Image Description =
Make = NIKON CORPORATION
Model = NIKON D1X
X Resolution = 300
Y Resolution = 300
Resolution Unit = inch
Software = Ver.5.01
Date Time = 2010-01-25 13:16:13
YCbCr Positioning = co-sited
Exif IFD Pointer = Offset: 252
GPS Info IFD Pointer = Offset: 27766

[Camera]
Exposure Time = 1/80"
F Number = F5.6
Exposure Program = Normal program
Exif Version = Version 2.2
Date Time Original = 2010-01-25 13:16:13
Date Time Digitized = 2010-01-25 13:16:13
Components Configuration = YCbcr
Compressed Bits Per Pixel = 4
Exposure Bias Value = ±0EV
Max Aperture Value = F5.66
Metering Mode = Spot
Light Source = Cloudy weather
Flash = Off
Focal Length = 50mm
Maker Note = 26858 Byte
User Comment =
Subsec Time = 0.27"
Subsec Time Original = 0.27"
Subsec Time Digitized = 0.27"
Flashpix Version = Version 1.0
Color Space = sRGB
Exif Image Width = 3008
Exif Image Height = 1960
Interoperability IFD Pointer = Offset: 27736
Sensing Method = One-chip color area sensor
File Source = DSC
Scene Type = A directly photographed image
CFA Pattern = [B,G],
[G,R]
Custom Rendered = Normal process
Exposure Mode = Auto exposure
White Balance = Manual white balance
Digital Zoom Ratio = 1x
Focal Length In 35mm Film = 75mm
Scene Capture Type = Normal
Gain Control = None
Contrast = Normal
Saturation = Normal
Sharpness = Normal
Subject Distance Range = unknown

[Interoperability]
Interoperability Index = ExifR98
Interoperability Version = Version 1.0

[Thumbnail Info]
Compression = JPEG Compressed (Thumbnail)
X Resolution = 300
Y Resolution = 300
Resolution Unit = inch
JPEG Interchange Format = Offset: 27890
JPEG Interchange Format Length = Length: 4938
YCbCr Positioning = co-sited

[Thumbnail]
Thumbnail = 160 x 120

[MakerNote (Nikon)]
Makernote Version = 0200
ISO Speed Used = 200
Colour Mode = COLOR
Quality = FINE
White Balance = CLOUDY
Sharpening = NORMAL
Focus Mode = MANUAL
Flash Setting =
Auto Flash Mode =
White Balance Bias Value = 0
White Balance Red, Blue Coefficients = 589/256, 289/256, 256/256, 256/256
000D = 00, 01, 03, 00
Exposure Diff = 00, 01, 0C, 00
ThumbOffset = 640
Tone Compensation (Contrast) = NORMAL
Lens Type = Nikon D series Lens
Lens Min/Max Focal Length, Max Aperture = 180/10, 500/10, 35/10, 56/10
Flash Used = Flash Not Used
Auto Focus Area = 00, 00, 00, 00
Bracketing & Shooting Mode = 0
008A = 0
008B = 40, 01, 0C, 00
Colour Mode = MODE1
008E = 393/512, -41/512, -109/512, 383/512
Lighting Type = NATURAL
0091 = 30, 31, 30, 30, 00, 00, 00, 00, 25, 3C, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 74, 05, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00
Hue Adjustmen = 3
0098 = 30, 31, 30, 30, 05, 74, 26, 40, 2D, 50, 2C, 3C, 1C, 18, 3C, 15, 6D, 1D, 66, 00
009A = 59/10, 59/10


Lawrence, if I set compensation then I have to do that for every shot, there seems to be no way to set it in the custom settings for global permanence?


Yes, set the exposure comp and it will stay that way for every hot unsless you alter it. Not like my grans fuji resets everytime it is switched off. That should do the trick.

[Dangermouse1964]

Forgive me if I am wrong but it looks like someone is after a refund on a perfectly functioning camera here, the reason I say this is because it has happened to me on ebay and I lost a camera and £500. and that person just kept coming up with excuse after another yet it was a perfect camera, sorry Arthur if there is a problem but I dont see one really.

[Dogfish_magnet]

The Exif shows spot metering - where abouts on the image did you meter ?

[Ambermile]

The centre I assume, as I said, all csm settings were at default so that would be 6mm centre, yes?

Mr Dangermouse, if you had seen the goddamn hassle I went through just to get this camera here - you'd take that back. I have already stated above I really want to get on with this camera, I have no intention of taking up the offer *already made* to return it - I want to get on with the damned thing. Hence the questions.

Tell you what, forget this thread ever happened eh? Pretend I never had a problem at all... clearly those with Nikons cannot conceive of there perhaps being an issue here, so enough already, I'll figure it out myself.


Arthur

[Dogfish_magnet]

Tey setting both camera body's to evaluative metering and aperture priority with the same iso and pointing them at the same scenes on the same day and see if they both choose the same shutter speed - this will tell you if its just a in camera processing that different. By the way i shoot Canon.

[Dangermouse1964]

The centre I assume, as I said, all csm settings were at default so that would be 6mm centre, yes?

Mr Dangermouse, if you had seen the goddamn hassle I went through just to get this camera here - you'd take that back. I have already stated above I really want to get on with this camera, I have no intention of taking up the offer *already made* to return it - I want to get on with the damned thing. Hence the questions.

Tell you what, forget this thread ever happened eh? Pretend I never had a problem at all... clearly those with Nikons cannot conceive of there perhaps being an issue here, so enough already, I'll figure it out myself.


Arthur


Arthur I am sorry if theres a genuine problem but to be honest I dont see one, all I can see is what others see and its a setup issue........yes you may not be up to speed with a Nikon but dont throw the towel in after a couple of shots as we all know you have to work for them, they dont just happen and as for Nikon or Canon or any other manufacturer you have to get used to the individual Characteristics

[lawrenceots]

As soon as the batteries are charged, we'll be able to see photos shot with both, and then we can work out where the settings might be wrong/or you might be using wrong. I'm sure there is nothing wrong, its just takes some getting used to it. :)

[Dangermouse1964]

Arthur my missus Eileen has just reminded me of her first day out with her D1X and that had similar things happening, she had it set to M but it changed the aperture and shutter after her test shot, is this the same thing

[Dangermouse1964]

Arthur PM me you tel no and I will give you the settings you need as its a bit long winded to post and if you have your camera in hand you can set it as we speak, from Eileens settings which do work

Pete

[scottthehat]

Arthur, if you could post some pics you've taken with those issues, or email, I can see if thats how it was for me when I had it, as I still have the pics I took. Remember though, keep it in Adobe RGB, turn doen the sat and make sure its not on centreweighted/spot metering or something.why adobe rgd,:thinking:

[lawrenceots]

why adobe rgd,:thinking:

Because Adobe RGB has a wider color range/less saturated then the 'print ready' SRGB. I think thats right, unless I've mixed something up...:thinking:

[TheBigYin]

Because Adobe RGB has a wider color range/less saturated then the 'print ready' SRGB. I think thats right, unless I've mixed something up...:thinking:

Sounds about right...


http://www.jseaman.com/images/sRGB.bmp

[scottthehat]

Because Adobe RGB has a wider color range/less saturated then the 'print ready' SRGB. I think thats right, unless I've mixed something up...:thinking:i suggest you read this.


http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/adobe-rgb.htm

[scottthehat]

Sounds about right...


http://www.jseaman.com/images/sRGB.bmp

http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/adobe-rgb.htm

[lawrenceots]

hmmm right! :thinking:

[specialman]

Ambermile, the two initial 'test' shots are done on totally different days with totally different light with totally different viewpoints so can't be compared. The same scene with the same settings on both cameras are what's needed to give a true reflection of whetehr the D1 is mucking up or not...

Anyway, many Nikon DSLRs underexpose naturally*so have to be compensated for. Not all sensors work to the same benchmark so that could be part of the problem. Also, different lenses give different amounts of contrast and colour balance, which can also affect exposure.

I'd just re-take the test shots in an unchanging environment where lighting remains the same. Then you'll see what's actually wrong.....

[daugirdas]

How about you sell both 300D and especially D1x and maybe Leica (if you are not too attached) and just get one recent decent camera with a proper lens. 5D is perhaps the best bang per buck, followed by 40D, or nikon D80-90 or D300 if you can stretch. Even 450D or Nikon D3000 will do a very good job with a good lens (not kit lens!) for these shots.

There are some excellent books if you need to consult regarding exposure, composition, and RAW conversion.

[Dangermouse1964]

basically theres noting wrong with the camera................according to the last few posts and the person buying wasnt happy but thats a D1X thing "you love em or hate em" but they are a damm good piece of kit and you can rely on em to do the work

[Dangermouse1964]

lets face it £185 isnt going to buy the best camera in the world is it .... a D1X is a good buy at that kind of money

[specialman]

I just noticed in that image EXIF data the OP is spot metering - wondered if that was the same on the Canon they compred against....

DM, I get the feeling you're spot on with your last few comments - user error rather than tech error methinks....

[Dangermouse1964]

Doesnt take a SPECIALMAN to work it out mate.....thanks:thumbs:

[daugirdas]

I just noticed in that image EXIF data the OP is spot metering - wondered if that was the same on the Canon they compred against....

DM, I get the feeling you're spot on with your last few comments - user error rather than tech error methinks....

Perhaps it is user error, but newer sensors record enough information to rescue even worse exposures. It wouldn't make that scene look much better than that due to lack of proper light and interest, but would certainly help in other situations.

I will also stress that it is crucial to shoot RAW and very carefully process files (I recommend Lightroom). JPEG will give terrible results from all and especially older cameras.

[Joe T]

The EXIF also says WB is manual - that may also make the pic look odd.

[Kaouthia]

Mostly under-exposed but large blocks of colour - like a telephone box) saturated to the point of unusability.
I can't speak for the D1x, but the D100 also had a tendency to underexpose images in order to prevent the blowing of highlights. It was an issue often raised by D100 owners at the time (myself included). This was the reason I only ever shot in RAW on my D100 (although don't even think about compressed NEF, it took 30 seconds to compress a single shot - which is one of the reasons the D70 became such a popular replacement, despite lacking a grip).

As for the colour issues, plenty of people have pointed things out there. Even if you shoot in AdobeRGB, you still want to convert it over to SRGB usually when printing or displaying on the screen (there are many applications, including web browsers, that don't support ICC profiles embedded within images).

[specialman]

Daugirdas, interesting POV about raw being the only probably way to go for good images. I do like raw and will extoll the virtues of it to anyone wanting maximum image control but even on my 'old' 2005 D2x the JPEGs are amazing and probably more than enough for even high-end magazine print runs.

You are totally right about the ability to rescue a shot though; think the OP just didn't get it right from the off

[Kaouthia]

even on my 'old' 2005 D2x the JPEGs are amazing
Nikon had brought out 6 other DSLR bodies before the D2x though, so they had plenty of time to figure out some of those bugs (the D70 probably being the first decent leap - if you forget the moiré issues - before the D2x).

My D200 also does pretty exceptional JPG files, but I still it shoot RAW+JPG.

[daugirdas]

Daugirdas,even on my 'old' 2005 D2x the JPEGs are amazing and probably more than enough for even high-end magazine print runs.

With JPEG you lose the ability to recover shadows and highlights, and use graduated filters in Lightroom, that I really find invaluable. Secondly, JPEG applies default sharpening and NR which may or may not be appropriate. I guess if you expose perfectly and use all the filters (when shooting landscapes) you may just about use JPEG. Memory cards are cheap, so why lose the data?

[Ambermile]

Right. Let's get something straight here if we can? See that first post? The bit where it says

"can anyone that knows about these things confirm that if you set up the camera as per the manual for first use (i.e. a complete reset to standard settings) then the camera takes absolutely poo pictures exposure-wise?"

That's what I need answering. I know how to take good shots with the camera, it's not bloody user error, I set the camera according to the manual. I can get a decent shot, in fact lots of them, but the above question is the one we are talking about here, not "Is he a tit and can't use it" or " you got the wrong colourspace there mate..." but only the above please...

I appreciate the help offered but it's not really valid to the initial post?

[Kaouthia]

"can anyone that knows about these things confirm that if you set up the camera as per the manual for first use (i.e. a complete reset to standard settings) then the camera takes absolutely poo pictures exposure-wise?"
I can confirm that the D100 was, which was the same generation of Nikon DSLRs (the first generation).

[Kaouthia]

JPEG applies default sharpening and NR which may or may not be appropriate.
If you tell it to in the camera settings. You can tell it to apply no sharpening and no NR.

[Ambermile]

I can confirm that the D100 was, which was the same generation of Nikon DSLRs (the first generation).

Excellent! So now I know that it is not me I can move on then. The camera is already set to Adobe and RAW, will never be on P again unless there's a csm setting I want to save, and though LR is the preferred package, I will stick with PI X3 as I am comfortable with it - even though it's bit naughty with exif data.



Thanks again for all the particiaption in this thread, especially good to see so many prepared to help over Christmas, but now I know it's not me I'm happy.

Arthur

[Dangermouse1964]

Just go out and enjoy Arthur..............nuff said mate

[Ambermile]

True, I can now :D

[Dangermouse1964]

by the way your next post will be about batteries..............D1X eats them fast .......lol

[specialman]

If you tell it to in the camera settings. You can tell it to apply no sharpening and no NR.

Beat me to it.... you're on form tonight Kaouthia :D

[Kaouthia]

you're on form tonight Kaouthia :D
It helps that the alcohol has worn off a bit. ;)

[specialman]

With JPEG you lose the ability to recover shadows and highlights, and use graduated filters in Lightroom, that I really find invaluable. Secondly, JPEG applies default sharpening and NR which may or may not be appropriate. I guess if you expose perfectly and use all the filters (when shooting landscapes) you may just about use JPEG. Memory cards are cheap, so why lose the data?

Didn't realise about the grad filters in LR but suppose it's logical; a grad filter will look pants when the highlights are blown because it's a digital grad and not a 'real' grad.

However, if a highlight is blown, it's blown - there's no rescue. The output media is very critical I feel, to how good a final image actually loks, where it's been shot in raw or jpeg. I shuold know; I've shot both for magazine and repro managers can still f*** both file formats up :D

[Ambermile]

by the way your next post will be about batteries..............D1X eats them fast .......lol

Ah - but there you could be wrong, I have three good and one borderline battery pack things here - with any luck I'll be OK now they are all charged. I just haven't figured out which one is the borderline one yet though :shrug:

[Jim B]

Ambermile, the two initial 'test' shots are done on totally different days with totally different light with totally different viewpoints so can't be compared. The same scene with the same settings on both cameras are what's needed to give a true reflection of whetehr the D1 is mucking up or not...

Exactly what I thought when I saw the first two images.

The first shot with the Canon has much better light giving good contrast, saturation and illumination on the trees behind, and a clearer sky (with a hint of blue). It looks as if the second shot with the Nikon was taken with the sun in providing a flat image lacking in contrast and saturation, and a cloudy sky too bright compared to the exposure for the telephone box, hence its over exposed.

Take shots with both cameras at the same time with the same settings then you can compare them.

[Ambermile]

Hi People, the above is not the issue, (which is now sorted) but I will try to get a couple of shots done today... just because it would make an interesting comparison.

Arthur

[Jim B]

So what was the issue? :thinking:

There is nothing wrong with the shot the Nikon has produced, just the shot from the Canon had better light.

[Ambermile]

So what was the issue? :thinking:

There is nothing wrong with the shot the Nikon has produced, just the shot from the Canon had better light.

The issue was about standard settings from the manual, as stated in the first post.


Anyway, here we go then. Both shots taken at f/7.1, zooms on max so would be 55mm on the Canon 300D(Canon EFS 18-55 f/3.5 - 5.6) , 50mm on the D1x (Sigma 18-50mm f/3.5 - 5.6).

Both set on AF, aperture priority, centred on small tere in middle of pic (no, really). Nikon shooting RAW, Canon JPG - because I forgot to reset the Canon and only noticed when I loaded the two images. It's cold outside...

First image is the Nikon, I cannot read the RAW exif data so will not post the Canon data either. Second, the Canon.



http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/rr136/Ambermile/DSC_0022.jpg


http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/rr136/Ambermile/IMG_0395.jpg







Clearly there's a big difference in the colour, and while the Canon looks "nicer", the Nikon is the clear winner in the reality stakes.

Arthur

[awp]

How did you meter these - they are both under exposed - esp the Nikon shot.

[Marcos James]

And you'd probably get a completely different result again without the ***** Sigma lens on the front of the Nikon.

[Jim B]

The exposure for both images appears to be very similar, so theres nothing wrong with the Nikon in that respect... :shrug:

Only difference is the colours which is down to the white balance or raw processing. In actual fact I think the warmer colours of the Nikon look "nicer"!

awp, how are these under exposed? It looks as if the shots have been taken at dusk and both cameras have exposed for the sky, you can't expose correctly for both the foreground and sky, as its outside the tonal range of the camera's sensors? The foreground wasn't illuminated so hence why its dark, but detail can be recovered from shadows to a certain degree, however blown highlights can't.

[Ambermile]

As you say, the Nikon does look better. Shot was taken this morning - so dawn not dusk - and I chose this scene as it splits the horizon dead centre so should make the cameras struggle. Metering was done by the cameras, as I stated they were both set to aperture priority on f/7.1.

In my eyes, the Nikon wins here - as expected it would (and should) - which is a relief! It still though does not explain why then it is that apparently Nikon went out of their way to instruct new owners to set the camera up at possibly it's worst settings - thereby not exactly covering the camera in roses?


Arthur


PS - interesting you say dusk though, the nikon looks a little cold, definitely morning but the Canon warms the image up... evening! The Nikon has the truer representation of the complete scene though.

[Ambermile]

And you'd probably get a completely different result again without the ***** Sigma lens on the front of the Nikon.

Quite probably, but we use what we have I am afraid... the Canon stock lens is crap too, but note the sigma is *much* sharper.

I have replaced the pix with processed versions and again, the Nikon data was so much easier to work with I was very pleasantly surprised. Last time I messed with RAW stuff was with astro pictures. This though was actually fun, I could go much further without losing detail.

[scottthehat]

i still recon you should be using standard rgb and not adobe rgb.

[Ambermile]

I am, sorry.

[scottthehat]

I am, sorry.for what i feel that if you use srgb you will get more real colours a always find argd looks to bright. and you will not gain any benifits from using argb, may i suggest trying both and seeing which makes you happier, also might be worth printing one of each(same pic lots of colours), and my apoligies for being rude, i just see lots of people using argb not realising it wont benifit them (but if any thing make colours worse when printing)

[Ambermile]

I mean, sorry for not mentioning that after reading the article linked to previously I am now using the Nikon with the sRGB colourspace - and so the shot above is taken in that one.

Arthur

[lawrenceots]

I'm really pleased that it seems to going fine now Arthur. :)

[Ambermile]

Thanks Lawrence. Here's a pic of the "armoury" now! Note the Leica replaced by the little Rollei 35, with the proof over the holidays that the Rollei is working just fine the Leica can go for sale with all the others in the collection. As you can see then, the conversion to the dark side is complete - I mean yeah, I used the Canon for the pic but it's on the way out!

http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/rr136/Ambermile/armoury.jpg


Arthur

[Dangermouse1964]

Nice amourey Arthur and glad all is now well that Rollei looks nice

[lawrenceots]

Looks good. Is that the 70-300 on the 1X..:naughty:?

[awp]

awp, how are these under exposed? It looks as if the shots have been taken at dusk and both cameras have exposed for the sky, you can't expose correctly for both the foreground and sky, as its outside the tonal range of the camera's sensors? The foreground wasn't illuminated so hence why its dark, but detail can be recovered from shadows to a certain degree, however blown highlights can't.

These images have been edited / replaced since I made that comment!

[awp]

PS - interesting you say dusk though, the nikon looks a little cold, definitely morning but the Canon warms the image up... evening! The Nikon has the truer representation of the complete scene though.

Interesting - the top image (Nikon?) looks warmest on my screen. The second image is definately cooler.

[Ambermile]

These images have been edited / replaced since I made that comment!

Ah - but after that reply to your comment...

Arthur

[Ambermile]

Nice amourey Arthur and glad all is now well that Rollei looks nice

It's a nice little camera - as long as I remember to focus it!




Looks good. Is that the 70-300 on the 1X..:naughty:?

Sadly no, that's the little Sigma 18-50. The 70-300 is on the F90x


These images have been edited / replaced since I made that comment!

Ah - but after that reply to your comment...


Interesting - the top image (Nikon?) looks warmest on my screen. The second image is definately cooler.

True, I have them now on #2 monitor and they are different, even though recently both monitors were callibrated. Looks like it's time to callibrate again (Dammit)







Arthur

[Kaouthia]

Thanks Lawrence. Here's a pic of the "armoury" now!
Nice little collection. That F90x on the right brings back some good memories. Mine says N90s on it though (bought it while I was living in the US).

I'll have to get a shot of my gear all lined up one day, but I'd need to borrow a camera to shoot it. :P

[Ambermile]

Ah - the N for amateur market, F for pro market... I think the only difference though was that the pro one has an F on it, while the amateur one has an N :D Had to get one with the MB-10 to make sure the swap from film to digital bodies was as easy as possible - that way I should be able to use both with an equal amount of dexterity (if not acumen!)

I felt happy using the Canon as it did not really belong in this shot - there are a large amount of film cameras around here - full and half frame - some I may keep but most will slowly be sold as I begin to concentrate on actually using cameras rather than cleaning/repairing them.

Arthur

[Kaouthia]

The only difference between the N90s and the F90x is the number printed on the body. ;)

But yeah, America did class it as the highest end amateur body, and the rest of the world classed it as the lowest end pro body at the time of release.