Telephoto for Outdoor Bird Events?

[Alan Sandham]

My daughter has invited us up to the Owl & Hawk Conservancy at Andover next month. I think my 24-105mm lens woudnt have the reach for such an event. I was thinking of hiring a 70-200mm lens, would this be best - anyone??:help:

[AndyElliott]

My daughter has invited us up to the Owl & Hawk Conservancy at Andover next month. I think my 24-105mm lens woudnt have the reach for such an event. I was thinking of hiring a 70-200mm lens, would this be best - anyone??:help:

For the falconry-type displays, the 70-200 should be fine. The longer 100-400 will be too long and doesn't focus as quickly. I would probably use the f4 version - much easier to pan around hand-held than the f2.8 version and sharper to boot. Providing you aren't going to be shooting in very dark conditions, the AF performance on the f4 will be fine. (This based on friend's kit at the Raptor Foundation, Cambs)

[Alan Sandham]

Thanks Andy, I have been thinking about buying the F4 as it's much cheaper than the 2.8 is. Thought I might hire the more expensive just to see, but if the F4 is good for outdoor stuff I might just look at buying one.:thumbs:

[straycat]

it looks like you will get close so maybe the 70-200 will be long enough

lovely part of the country, my gran was from weyhill, i was born in andover memorial hospital close by :)

Andovers a bit of a dump now, but the surrounded countryside is pure England

so look out for scenic photo chances the wallops,thruxton village etc.

the old road from andover to newbury is a treat.

[Alan Sandham]

it looks like you will get close so maybe the 70-200 will be long enough

lovely part of the country, my gran was from weyhill, i was born in andover memorial hospital close by :)

Andovers a bit of a dump now, but the surrounded countryside is pure England

so look out for scenic photo chances the wallops,thruxton village etc.

the old road from andover to newbury is a treat.


Great! will have an early start so will have a look:thumbs:

[Canon Bob]

I've just checked my shots from a similar event last year. The flying shots were a mixture of 300mm and 420mm on a 1.3x crop body and I used a 135mm for the static birds.
Your 500D will gain a little on these figures but 200mm maximum may be a little short and a 1.4x T/C might be worth having in your pocket.

Bob

[Alan Sandham]

I've just checked my shots from a similar event last year. The flying shots were a mixture of 300mm and 420mm on a 1.3x crop body and I used a 135mm for the static birds.
Your 500D will gain a little on these figures but 200mm maximum may be a little short and a 1.4x T/C might be worth having in your pocket.

Bob

Sorry Bob, I'm a bit inexperienced here. Am I right in thinking T/C is an add on for 70-200??:cuckoo:



Back again Bob, just been looking at these teleconverters. I see the Canon ones are around £299.:thumbs:

[AndyElliott]

Sorry Bob, I'm a bit inexperienced here. Am I right in thinking T/C is an add on for 70-200??:cuckoo:

T/C = teleconverter. 1.4x focal length, sits between lens and body. It depends on the venue. Some places, you are easily close enough, others, not. I would stick with the zoom rather than a 300 prime as the 300 will be too long for many shots. Don't crowd the flying birds in the shot, they look better with a bit of space! Based on friends' experience with the 100-400, it's too slow (AF and max aperture) for the faster birds.

Check out the website. Their featured images, IMHO, are not that great - birds too tight in the frame (using the 300/4) - the falcon is also out-of-focus (using the 100-400). I would suggest the 70-200 is fine... :D

[Alan Sandham]

Thanks again Andy. I think I'll try the 70-200. Hopefully post some decent shots after the event!!

[AndyElliott]

I do a lot of these displays:

http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/elliott.aje.andy/RaptorFoundation16thMarch2010#
http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/elliott.aje.andy/RaptorFoundation14thMarch2010#
http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/elliott.aje.andy/RaptorFoundation4thMarch2010#

...from the last 3 weeks

[artyman]

Get yourself the new Sigma 50-500 OS tha way you should have all bases covered :D

[AndyElliott]

Get yourself the new Sigma 50-500 OS tha way you should have all bases covered :D

AF is tooo sloooow!

[grumpybadger]

At Hawk Conservancy, a 70-200 and a 1.4x would be ideal. I use the f/4 most of the time (although I am about to buy another f/2.8 but not to replace the f/4 to complement it)

www.lensesforhire.co.uk is a good way to play with lenses before you commit to a purchase.

[JerryL]

A few years ago I did a Hawk experience day and found in the controlled flying that my 70-200 f2.8 AF-S lens covered all bases. ( I do miss that lens why did I sell it?:bang:

The 70-200 should give you some nice shots, here's a sample from my day out

http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/gallery/data/500/DSC_00291050Nikon.jpg (http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=82424)

[malla1962]

70-200 will be ok for you and do a good job.

[realspeed]

You defiantely need a fast focus lens and agree the 70-20mm f2.8 would be a definate advantage with the fast flying birds.

Realspeed

[Alan Sandham]

Thank all for your comments. Switched off at 9am last night.

[Alan Sandham]

I do a lot of these displays:

http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/elliott.aje.andy/RaptorFoundation16thMarch2010#
http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/elliott.aje.andy/RaptorFoundation14thMarch2010#
http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/elliott.aje.andy/RaptorFoundation4thMarch2010#

...from the last 3 weeks

Some great shots there Andy. Were they taken using the 70-200mm??

[AndyElliott]

Some great shots there Andy. Were they taken using the 70-200mm??

No - I personally don't use Canon. They were with the Zuiko Digital 50-200 f2.8-3.5 SWD. It is as sharp, if not sharper, than the 70-200 f4, but is between 1/3 and 1 stop brighter. The SWD version has dual ring motors, so can refocus very quickly (allegedly this lens, along with the 12-60 SWD and the 14-35 SWD have the fastest refocussing speeds of any lenses - an Olympus claim, but not one I have seen challenged).

Anyway, the point is that this is very similar in reach (100mm to 400mm equivalent) to the 70-200 on the Canon (112mm to 320mm). Most of the shots I have taken are within the range of the Canon lens. The difference between 320mm and 400mm is not that great anyway.

Andy

[Alan Sandham]

Hi Andy,

Thanks. I should have noticed that on your details. I'm still very much a learner after only recently moving up to an L series lens. I have found the 24-105 to be a great all-rounder although I have only had it a few months. I am looking forward to having a go with a longer reach lens. Thanks for your advice:thumbs:

[AndyElliott]

Hi Andy,

Thanks. I should have noticed that on your details. I'm still very much a learner after only recently moving up to an L series lens. I have found the 24-105 to be a great all-rounder although I have only had it a few months. I am looking forward to having a go with a longer reach lens. Thanks for your advice:thumbs:

No problem. I love the birds at these shows. I'm sure the 70-200 f4L won't disappoint. It may be a toss-up whether the 1.4x is needed or not - just depends on how close you can get. Don't be afraid of lying on the ground to get distractions out of view - or asking if you can stand in a 'non-standard' place to get a shot. Most of these places are very accommodating - so many shots are stuffed by horrible backgrounds - the key is to be in the right place!

[x777]

Watch out for the gang of Hooded Vultures that they rescued from Italy....they literally fly through the crowd at the 2pm 'Valley of the Eagles' display and you're best not to try and watch through a viewfinder as raptors and cameras don't mix.

When I first went there a few years ago I had my Sigma 50-500 - yes AF can be slow but depending on your technique you can have a lot of keepers. If you have a chance, through TC, hiring or purchase, you'll need 300mm for the flying shots to get 'up close' with the birds.

Note that the two non-woodland auditoriums are west-facing, so you'll need to sit crowd left to take advantage of the light. Get there by 1130 (first flying is at midday), lunch after, display as mentioned above at 2pm, go fly a Harris Hawk yourself after that (and have fun taking pictures as the bird flies to the fist of everyone else), then the last flying display is in the woodland setting (mostly owls) at 3.30.

Enjoy!

[Alan Sandham]

Watch out for the gang of Hooded Vultures that they rescued from Italy....they literally fly through the crowd at the 2pm 'Valley of the Eagles' display and you're best not to try and watch through a viewfinder as raptors and cameras don't mix.

When I first went there a few years ago I had my Sigma 50-500 - yes AF can be slow but depending on your technique you can have a lot of keepers. If you have a chance, through TC, hiring or purchase, you'll need 300mm for the flying shots to get 'up close' with the birds.

Note that the two non-woodland auditoriums are west-facing, so you'll need to sit crowd left to take advantage of the light. Get there by 1130 (first flying is at midday), lunch after, display as mentioned above at 2pm, go fly a Harris Hawk yourself after that (and have fun taking pictures as the bird flies to the fist of everyone else), then the last flying display is in the woodland setting (mostly owls) at 3.30.

Enjoy!

Many thanks for that! My wife was of the opinion there wouldnt be much to do for a whole day but you have changed her mind:thumbs:

[x777]

Plus you still have to walk the grounds to view all of the inmates! The hospital usually contains various wild 'rescues' too.

I'm on duty at Titchfield Haven tomorrow (Saturday), Alan, and doing the 'hide with a guide' from 2pm. There's enough Black Headed Gull flying action there at the moment to get you used to some dynamic tracking with your camera!

Cheers

Mike

[Briony]

So would my Tamron 70 - 300 F 4.5 be o.k.? as my Sigma 120 - 400 would be too long, as I am going to a similar place very soon.

[Alan Sandham]

Plus you still have to walk the grounds to view all of the inmates! The hospital usually contains various wild 'rescues' too.

I'm on duty at Titchfield Haven tomorrow (Saturday), Alan, and doing the 'hide with a guide' from 2pm. There's enough Black Headed Gull flying action there at the moment to get you used to some dynamic tracking with your camera!

Cheers

Mike

Hi Mike,

Thats only a few minutes walk for me. Funny how you miss the things on your doorstep:bonk:

[Alan Sandham]

So would my Tamron 70 - 300 F 4.5 be o.k.? as my Sigma 120 - 400 would be too long, as I am going to a similar place very soon.

I havent had chance to compare as yet. I have decided to buy the cheapest 70-200 F4L non-IS as a starter as most people think its a good option. It's supposed to be as good as the IS version which costs twice the price - as long as there is good light allowing faster shutter speeds

[grumpybadger]

Good choice Alan. Especially as IS isn't that useful with high speed targets such as flying birds.

Nicki - from the two you mention, I'd take the 120-400. It isn't too long at the 120 end and extra reach can be useful and it will probably AF faster than the Tamron.

[gpa]

Right on my doorstep and a place I go very often. the 70-200 will be fine for your first outing the displays are arranged to ensure the birds fly reasonably close to the audience. Take a converter with you as a backup. lots of pics on my website (birds in flight and bird portraits taken there). Once you have been a few times and know the layout of the displays you can move up to a bigger lens as you know where the birds are lightly to be coming from, makes life a little easier with a bigger lens:D. You will have a great day enjoy.

http://www.gautonphotography.com/Nature-1/Fauna/Birds-in-Flight-1/DSC2058/676977588_F9o42-M.jpg (http://www.gautonphotography.com/Nature-1/Fauna/Birds-in-Flight-1/9749202_D7S3b#676977588_F9o42-A-LB)

[Alan Sandham]

Right on my doorstep and a place I go very often. the 70-200 will be fine for your first outing the displays are arranged to ensure the birds fly reasonably close to the audience. Take a converter with you as a backup. lots of pics on my website (birds in flight and bird portraits taken there). Once you have been a few times and know the layout of the displays you can move up to a bigger lens as you know where the birds are lightly to be coming from, makes life a little easier with a bigger lens:D. You will have a great day enjoy.

http://www.gautonphotography.com/Nature-1/Fauna/Birds-in-Flight-1/DSC2058/676977588_F9o42-M.jpg (http://www.gautonphotography.com/Nature-1/Fauna/Birds-in-Flight-1/9749202_D7S3b#676977588_F9o42-A-LB)

Thanks Grant. Hoping to go next Sunday. She goes quite often as her friend works there. First time for us though. Hope the weather gets better for it :thumbs:

[straycat]

how did you get on? i am thinking of going myself

especialy after looking at the photos on the site

which were with 500mm lens i note

[Dawn B]

Right on my doorstep and a place I go very often. the 70-200 will be fine for your first outing the displays are arranged to ensure the birds fly reasonably close to the audience. Take a converter with you as a backup. lots of pics on my website (birds in flight and bird portraits taken there). Once you have been a few times and know the layout of the displays you can move up to a bigger lens as you know where the birds are lightly to be coming from, makes life a little easier with a bigger lens:D. You will have a great day enjoy.

http://www.gautonphotography.com/Nature-1/Fauna/Birds-in-Flight-1/DSC2058/676977588_F9o42-M.jpg (http://www.gautonphotography.com/Nature-1/Fauna/Birds-in-Flight-1/9749202_D7S3b#676977588_F9o42-A-LB)

Fabulous shot, and wanted to say what stunning images on your site, very inspiring.:)

[Alan Sandham]

how did you get on? i am thinking of going myself

especialy after looking at the photos on the site

which were with 500mm lens i note

Hi,

We went on Easter Sunday. Had a great day. The bird flying events are great and you get quite close up to them. Unfortunately my new 70-200 lens was on order but hadnt arrived, so took my 25-105mm lens which was it's first proper outing as I only got it at Christmas. I felt quite inadequate next to the experienced toggers with their massive lenses!!! I was experimenting with aperture and shutter speeds and so didnt get any super-sharp shots, but I learned a lot and will do better next time. Heres just one. I havent had much time for uploading lately but will get more uploaded soon I hope.:thumbs:

url=http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=83839]http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/gallery/data/3314/IMG_22220.jpg[/url]

[Alan Sandham]

Fabulous shot, and wanted to say what stunning images on your site, very inspiring.:)

Hi Dawn,

I agree, its a really good day out. Hope to go again soon:thumbs:

[straycat]

i am waiting untill some good weather to go.i read all the facts and it says 3 shows a day the 2nd eagle show sounds great stuff.
have a look at the photos on the competion pages they are of a high standard.

[kevshore]

The 70-200mm should be fine. I used that last week at a bird of prey centre in Cornwall. This shot was taken at 200mm full frame:

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-2/947036/DSC_7397b.jpg



Kev.

[straycat]

i bet he was moveing :)

[kevshore]

i bet he was moveing :)



Just a tad! Had me going dizzy... :D



Kev.