View Full Version : my car has done 60,000 miles
lostinfrance
14-05-2010, 11:27
As a engineer i have decided to open a can of worms.
My car has done 60,000 miles in 5 years,how long has the engine run(dont know). Cameras DSLR run for say 150,000 clicks,how long does a camera run at say a average shutter speed of 1/125 sec in its lifetime,makes you think how well there made,a jet engine can run for a million miles before a service
just a thought
david1701
14-05-2010, 11:33
that should be in oof ;)
Looks Equipment related to me. ;)
I saw a Volvo P1800 on the net that had done 2,600,000 miles. Is there a record for shutter counts in the dslr world? I've heard of some very high mileage 1D's
thought you may to know...my Nikon D2x is currently on its original shutter unit and at its present shutter count is........452,639 clicks........and my D3x which we got last august has currently done over 12,000...
thought you may to know...my Nikon D2x is currently on its original shutter unit and at its present shutter count is........452,639 clicks........and my D3x which we got last august has currently done over 12,000...
:eek:
Nikon D2x is currently on 452,639
You WHAT!!!
:clap:
lostinfrance
14-05-2010, 11:53
Hi david 1701,what is oof
Hi david 1701,what is oof
a sub forum for things not photography related. but as fabs said, this is about equipment :)
Yeah, OOF is Out of Focus, think David was having an off moment. :D
You WHAT!!!
:clap:
http://www.sno.phy.queensu.ca/~phil/exiftool/
i use this..it counts the shutter actuations NOT just the images you download...ie it counts ones deleted in camera....
Vertigo1
14-05-2010, 12:03
a jet engine can run for a million miles before a service
Well a jet engine only has one moving part and is thus very reliable
http://www.sno.phy.queensu.ca/~phil/exiftool/
i use this..it counts the shutter actuations NOT just the images you download...ie it counts ones deleted in camera....
lol me knows :) just staggered by the number :eek:
lostinfrance
14-05-2010, 12:08
Just to bore you more a jet engine revs between 80,000 and 120,000 RPM,ten times faster than a Ferrari Enzo and a lot faster than a Nikon D3x LOL
trencheel303
14-05-2010, 12:12
Well a jet engine only has one moving part and is thus very reliable
Lol? It has many more than just one moving part I am sure....
onomatopoeia
14-05-2010, 12:22
As a engineer i have decided to open a can of worms.
My car has done 60,000 miles in 5 years,how long has the engine run(dont know). Cameras DSLR run for say 150,000 clicks,how long does a camera run at say a average shutter speed of 1/125 sec in its lifetime,makes you think how well there made,a jet engine can run for a million miles before a service
just a thought
But there are different levels of precision in the manufacture, different materials, different useage patterns etc. There is no comparison at all. The shutter on my Sony can open and close in 1/8000 of a second. The Hillman Imp engine in my Davrian does 9000rpm (well a bit more, but the maths are easier), which means it rotates in 1/150 of a second. However it has a lot more mass to move, but there is far less rotational acceleration of the crankshaft (lots of acceleration of the pistons, but they are just lumps of metal). I need to change the oil in it every 100 miles or so (because I use Castrol R which does not last long and because it is only driven in "absolutely thrashing it" mode which destroys any oil very quickly), the shutter in my camera requires no servicing at all.
Apples and oranges, basically.
But there are different levels of precision in the manufacture, different materials, different useage patterns etc. There is no comparison at all. The shutter on my Sony can open and close in 1/8000 of a second. The Hillman Imp engine in my Davrian does 9000rpm (well a bit more, but the maths are easier), which means it rotates in 1/150 of a second. However it has a lot more mass to move, but there is far less rotational acceleration of the crankshaft (lots of acceleration of the pistons, but they are just lumps of metal). I need to change the oil in it every 100 miles or so (because I use Castrol R which does not last long and because it is only driven in "absolutely thrashing it" mode which destroys any oil very quickly), the shutter in my camera requires no servicing at all.
Apples and oranges, basically.
Bang went this conversation :) lol
:clap: good explanation
Bang went this conversation :) lol
:clap:
hahahahahahahahahaha...certainly cheered up my day!!!!
lostinfrance
14-05-2010, 12:35
to sum it up ,in a lifetime i bet your camera,film or digital does not run for more than few hours
My VW Passat has done nearly 50K in 18 months your not even trying :D
evilonion
14-05-2010, 12:36
Am I the only one completely confused as to what the origional question is?
Is the question about how well made cameras are compared to other machines?
Thats an impossible thing to even begin to compare... if you compare it against car engines (not sure why) but what engine would you choose? The small 1.0 engines are far less reliable than say a 4.0 v8, and generally by the time the life of the 1.0 is up the v8 is just running in.
I am very sceptical about the claim that jet engines can do rediculously high miles without being serviced. Parts fail, those parts would have to be checked regulalry and changed when needed (life span)
Just as a car has to have a new cambelt every xk miles, the camera has to have a service and possible new shutter...
Dave Pickett
14-05-2010, 12:40
yes but it clonks like anything! Clonk mirror up, clonk 1st curtain opens clonk second shutter closes, clonk mirror falls, As the OP is an engineer he will appreciate this is not a nice form of motion compared to a well balanced jet engine running smoothly......its the number of cycles, and the shutter speed is of no relevance, you get all 4 clunks whether its 1/125th or an hour! (ok above 1/250th or there abouts the two curtains combine into one clunk)
lostinfrance
14-05-2010, 12:43
but how many people service there cameras,with the cost of a midrange dslr and the times thay are upgraded i would rather get a new one than pay for the cost of a service.the olympus trip was in production for 15 years and still a very desirable bit of kit,see tripman website
This was just a topic to open a can of worms , indeed it did LOL
Byker28i
14-05-2010, 12:50
Bang went this conversation :) lol
:clap: good explanation
Well strictly speaking it went more suck, squeeze, bang, blow...
chris330
14-05-2010, 12:55
Cameras DSLR run for say 150,000 clicks,how long does a camera run at say a average shutter speed of 1/125 sec in its lifetime
Given those averages, I'd say that camera's last about 20 minutes... :lol:
evilonion
14-05-2010, 13:00
but how many people service there cameras,with the cost of a midrange dslr and the times thay are upgraded i would rather get a new one than pay for the cost of a service.the olympus trip was in production for 15 years and still a very desirable bit of kit,see tripman website
This was just a topic to open a can of worms , indeed it did LOL
but then your talking cost.
so you would have to compare a car in relation to that cost...
you can get a second hand subaru sti for about £2000 in good condition now.
You can get a toyota aristo 3.0 twin turbo for around £2000
The cost fo the cambelt on both of these cars is high... on top of that you have the cost of brakes, services, and mechanical failure, and the cost of turbos is not cheap!
Id say the camera is quite a cheap object to service and maintain in relation to a car.
In fact a car far outweighs the original purchase cost with servicing, insurance, tax, petrol and so on...
You buy a new car for £15,000 then add the cost of tax, insurance, fuel, servicing, repairs over the next 5 years.
compare that to spending 3-4k on a dslr and what the cost of running one of those is with the odd service.
by the time a camera shutter dies though i should think the camera would be worth very little and you would probably be upgrading anyway ;)
pragmatist
14-05-2010, 13:45
Just to bore you more a jet engine revs between 80,000 and 120,000 RPM,ten times faster than a Ferrari Enzo and a lot faster than a Nikon D3x LOL
Just to be a geek a Jet engine does not rev, It spools!
lostinfrance
14-05-2010, 13:47
Given those averages, I'd say that camera's last about 20 minutes... :lol:
And thats what this is all about
thanks chris
chris330
14-05-2010, 13:51
Is it normally the shutter mechanism that gives up, or the mirror moving up and down?
Is it normally the shutter mechanism that gives up, or the mirror moving up and down?
shutter.......you will get half an image, the rest being black
You WHAT!!!
:clap:
i should point out that it does get seen every year by nikon pro tech guys or girl as her name is Alex and she's fab!!
lostinfrance
14-05-2010, 13:58
Just to be a geek a Jet engine does not rev, It spools!
is that spools per second or spools per hour lol
is that spools per second or spools per hour lolRPM I thought..... followed by pounds per square inch to measure the thrust. BTW I think what the OP means is 'whats the life expectancy of a DSLR in counts / time ?'
Terran
hsuffyan
14-05-2010, 14:18
it makes you wonder why so many people moan about shutter actuations... people get snotty at anything that has had 20-30k plus, but thats only 15%-30% of the useage the manufacturer believes you will get out of it. Average life expectancy in the UK is close to 80years, so i've lived about 32.5% of what my life expectancy, maybe I should consider myself to be of no use too?
I bought a 2nd hand 5D MKII which has done 44k, which is less than 1/3 of its expected shutter life and IF I ever hit 100k+ and it falls apart, for a relatively reasonable repair cost, I could give it a new lease of life and get another 100k out of it.
Just my 2 cents..
it makes you wonder why so many people moan about shutter actuations... people get snotty at anything that has had 20-30k plus, but thats only 15%-30% of the useage the manufacturer believes you will get out of it. Average life expectancy in the UK is close to 80years, so i've lived about 32.5% of what my life expectancy, maybe I should consider myself to be of no use too?
I bought a 2nd hand 5D MKII which has done 44k, which is less than 1/3 of its expected shutter life and IF I ever hit 100k+ and it falls apart, for a relatively reasonable repair cost, I could give it a new lease of life and get another 100k out of it.
Just my 2 cents..
:clap: spot on :clap:
lostinfrance
14-05-2010, 14:30
if you bought a dishwasher and only lasted 20 minits you would be peeved,a swiss clockwork watch will last many years so how much engineering goes into a camera that will run maybe 20 minuits in a few years.the manufactures want you to change ever couple of years ,i have a nikon fm2n bought 19 years ago,still as sweet as ever.the manufactures drip feed us so we will upgrade to new cameras(not just cameras) every year or two when there is nothing wrong with the gear we have(a bigger number is always better-not) after all we are taking photographs arnt we,thats the whole point of this wonderfull hobby or have people lost sight of this
hsuffyan
14-05-2010, 14:33
if you bought a dishwasher and only lasted 20 minits you would be peeved,a swiss clockwork watch will last many years so how much engineering goes into a camera that will run maybe 20 minuits in a few years.the manufactures want you to change ever couple of years ,i have a nikon fm2n bought 19 years ago,still as sweet as ever.the manufactures drip feed us so we will upgrade to new cameras(not just cameras) every year or two when there is nothing wrong with the gear we have(a bigger number is always better-not) after all we are taking photographs arnt we,thats the whole point of this wonderfull hobby or have people lost sight of this
agreed, and theres a darn sight less variables in a camera that can fall apart than a car engine, dishwasher, computer etc...
Vertigo1
14-05-2010, 22:10
Lol? It has many more than just one moving part I am sure....
Nope. Whilst there may be small motors and so forth in the ancilliaries, the basic design of a jet engine has but a single moving part. It's brilliant in its simplicity :)
onomatopoeia
14-05-2010, 22:22
if you bought a dishwasher and only lasted 20 minits you would be peeved
Analogies are rubbish in internet arguments, as is comparing a dishwasher to the shutter mechanism in a DSLR.
To carry your analogy to its logical conclusion, if the dishwasher cleaned a load of dishes in 1/8000 sec you wouldn't be peeved. That would be 160,000 loads of crockery cleaned before it expired. At one load a day your 20 minute dishwasher would last over 400 years.
david1701
14-05-2010, 22:25
Looks Equipment related to me. ;)
I so read this as talk lighting :p
apologies, I was sober this morning which always leads to errors
I so read this as talk lighting :p
apologies, I was sober this morning which always leads to errors
Actually, it was in Talk Photography. :p
RichardC27
14-05-2010, 22:29
I did read an article once that went into the details of what a camera shutter mechanism actually goes through when you push the button. There is a link on this forum somewhere if your search for it, but in short if you set the shutter speed to something like 1/320th, the shutter curtains are subjected to something like 20g of acceleration as they move out of the way, and then are instantly subjected to 20g acceleration back the other way as they close the shutter again. It's actually surprising that they last as long as they do.
To go back to the original point, engines do rotate very quickly, but the mean piston speed is generally quite slow (relatively) if you average it out over an engine revolution.
david1701
14-05-2010, 22:29
Actually, it was in Talk Photography. :p
can I have the fiver you owe me for making you look good now then?
Just Dave
14-05-2010, 22:32
My car has done 60,000 miles
Dont be tellin Matt Sayle lol his did; 60mm in a year sorry Matt couldnt resist LOL and thats pushin it LOL
can I have the fiver you owe me for making you look good now then?
:tumbleweed:
:p
Oakleafcjk
14-05-2010, 23:38
So which would last longer a Canon or a Nikon.................runs for the hills quickly
hsuffyan
15-05-2010, 07:15
id say nikon, only because after buying them people deeply regret the purchase and confine them to the draw!
tikkathreebarrel
15-05-2010, 07:50
Yeah, OOF is Out of Focus, think David was having an off moment. :D
I thought the original post "be in OOF" was some kind of pun.
Need help? Say the two bold font words quickly and you'll see what kind of sense of humour I have:bonk::bonk::bonk::bonk:
I work that out as being around 20 minutes... Hmm, 150,000 actuations doesn't sound like much now... Full pelt your pro level camera can last 20 minutes!:lol:
Lol? It has many more than just one moving part I am sure....
Essentially. It has a casing and a fan, fuel is sprayed in and that's it.
wontolla
15-05-2010, 15:02
The small 1.0 engines are far less reliable than say a 4.0 v8, and generally by the time the life of the 1.0 is up the v8 is just running in.
Rubbish, my mate has a Morris Minor from 1961 with an original 948cc engine that has done over 1 1/4 MILIION miles and NO major overhaul!
Oakleafcjk
15-05-2010, 15:10
Rubbish, my mate has a Morris Minor from 1961 with an original 948cc engine that has done over 1 1/4 MILIION miles and NO major overhaul!
however it has had a few smaller jobs done like 3 new heads,4 lots of pistons,2 new gearboxes,8 sets of rings,6 new cams.
Sorry couldnt resist :lol:
wontolla
15-05-2010, 15:19
however it has had a few smaller jobs done like 3 new heads,4 lots of pistons,2 new gearboxes,8 sets of rings,6 new cams.
Sorry couldnt resist :lol:
I will let you off as I expected this! (or something like it!:D)
Gearbox, yes, Piston rings, yes, but everything else is original! AND, in the Moggy club he belongs to, it's not the only one with over a million miles on the clock!
Oakleafcjk
15-05-2010, 15:20
Gotta have a giggle,my car will never last 1/4 of that
fuzzyedges
15-05-2010, 20:07
Heads gone is there a custom setting for doing dishes on a nikon??
Had a brush for 20 years only needed 6 new heads and 4 new shafts or am I missing the point of this thread
Yardbent
15-05-2010, 20:40
My VW Passat has done nearly 50K in 18 months your not even trying :D
yawn - traded in my Vectra with 275,000miles after 5years - ran well too
but it was a taxi :lol:
lostinfrance
16-05-2010, 07:08
As a machine goes the running time of a camera is very short compaired to other machines no matter how well built it is,i know everything is built for a purpuse and to do diffrent things,i used to use a milling machine that was used in making parts for Rolls Royce Merlin engines in the war and as far as i know was still being used 10 years ago in a workshop in Liverpool.
Cameras are well built and do what thay are ment to do,but at least this forum gave me some entertanment while i have been at home with the flu.
Thank you all who took part
As a machine goes the running time of a camera is very short compaired to other machines no matter how well built it is,i know everything is built for a purpuse and to do diffrent things,i used to use a milling machine that was used in making parts for Rolls Royce Merlin engines in the war and as far as i know was still being used 10 years ago in a workshop in Liverpool.
Cameras are well built and do what thay are ment to do,but at least this forum gave me some entertanment while i have been at home with the flu.
Thank you all who took part
Which RR factory you work at ?
I'm at Hucknall
lostinfrance
16-05-2010, 07:42
the milling machine ,a archdale was bought by my boss in a machine sale in 1960 frm RR and used in a small worksop in liverpool making nothing as grand as merlin engines but was bought for its strengh in machineing 316 stainless steel
DiddyDave
16-05-2010, 08:01
Shutter life expectancy... 150,000 actuations
When the manufacturer says this (whatever make & whatever camera & number) I reckon they are really saying...
"We expect this to be the minimum you should expect from our superb design & manufacturing process, and we'd like to think you could achieve 2x even 3x our quoted figure easily. However, we also accept the tolerances we're building into the process are made down to a price rather than to the best of our ability, so we're covering our arses by suggesting what we hope is a low figure, and telling you not to be surprised it it's worse than that
We also expect no-one (except Sports Pros) to get anywhere near our suggested figure before you feel the need to 'upgrade' to our latest camera offerings, and hence the quoted figure is pretty well meaningless. The advancement of technology makes camera lovers (read camera 'lusters') upgrade even where most of the time it makes no difference to their photography, but it does save us over-engineering our products - for which we thank you"
:D
DD
lostinfrance
16-05-2010, 08:21
manufactures want you to upgrade,sony seem to have a new bit of kit every week.the technolagy is drip fed to us so we do upgrade,they could make and sell the finest camera in the world but why when people go number chasing,when you walk out the store with your new camera it already 12 to18 months out of date and will it realy take better phtographs,will it keep your wife happy lol
go to any photography club thats digital and film users,they should be called equipment clubs becase lots of users have lost sight of what the hobby is
lostinfrance
16-05-2010, 08:28
Shutter life expectancy... 150,000 actuations
When the manufacturer says this (whatever make & whatever camera & number) I reckon they are really saying...
"We expect this to be the minimum you should expect from our superb design & manufacturing process, and we'd like to think you could achieve 2x even 3x our quoted figure easily. However, we also accept the tolerances we're building into the process are made down to a price rather than to the best of our ability, so we're covering our arses by suggesting what we hope is a low figure, and telling you not to be surprised it it's worse than that
We also expect no-one (except Sports Pros) to get anywhere near our suggested figure before you feel the need to 'upgrade' to our latest camera offerings, and hence the quoted figure is pretty well meaningless. The advancement of technology makes camera lovers (read camera 'lusters') upgrade even where most of the time it makes no difference to their photography, but it does save us over-engineering our products - for which we thank you"
:D
DD
but will you be first to complain when it stops woking at 149,999 clicks
Richard.T
16-05-2010, 08:50
Don't for the size and price difference between a DSLR and a jet engine :)
Oakleafcjk
16-05-2010, 11:13
Interesting thread this,may be worth starting a new one asking when people feel they 'need' a better camera. I am still learning and as you can see I own a 30d which is quite old now but I still achieve what I want from it.Should I upgrade? I don't think I need to as it would serve no purpose for me other than having a more up to date quadrillion pixel dslr.
astral16v
16-05-2010, 11:24
thought you may to know...my Nikon D2x is currently on its original shutter unit and at its present shutter count is........452,639 clicks........and my D3x which we got last august has currently done over 12,000...
Do you spend all your free time clicking away ? Whats your keep rate ?
Must have RSI in your finger LOL!!!:lol::lol:
Do you spend all your free time clicking away ? Whats your keep rate ?
Must have RSI in your finger LOL!!!:lol::lol:
dont joke....my finger does hurt lol!!!!
anywhere from 8 shoots a week on a bad week to 40 at its busiest...maybe 600 families a year, i can shoot anywhere from 80 to 250 per session..
vBulletin® v3.8.4, Copyright ©2000-2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.