View Full Version : HELP Studion Lights
h.r.ford
13-05-2007, 15:53
I got my first set of starter studio lights from Neil. Got them home and set them up. I'm having a heck of a time. If I go above 1/50th of a second this is what I get:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/208/496249569_52069850be.jpg
In order to get a properly exposed I have to be at f22 at 1/50... anything other than that either gets me white or black or this odd half and half! I'm soooo confused.
My setup is this:
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e47/nelly3164/DSC_0001.jpg?t=1178960467
Please Help!
lol, great fun aint it...
You adjust the light using Your app settings not speed!
Do the lights have a setting where you can adjust the power?
Start low and work up, if not its all in the F numbers...
I generally start about 1/250 and F16
Have fun...
What make and model are the lights?
They may need to be used with a certain shutter speed range.
With mine, the ideal shutter speed is 1/125th.
h.r.ford
13-05-2007, 16:03
That is what I'm saying anything over 1/50th doesn't work at all!
1/50th at f22 works and nothing else.... if I put it up to 1/250 and f16 I get black...
I even tried taking pictures of the flash themselves and after 1/50th it is black... which leads me to believe the flash isn't quick enough for any speed over that or am I just stupid???
h.r.ford
13-05-2007, 16:06
They are pro line F-180 here are the specs I could find:
180w
1.2-2.2xec recharge time
Colour Temp 5500K
Power control Full to 1/4 fully variable
Flash duration 1/1000-11600 s
I'm using infrared trigger
Is the camera set up with first or second curtain sync?
Try changing it and see what happens.
I'm Sure you should be using first curtain shutter sync!
h.r.ford
13-05-2007, 16:20
I tried it no difference.
I tried working in AV mode because I normally work in Manual but the camera doesn't seem to notice that there is a flash because it gives me times of like 8s... Are you only supposed to work in M with studio lights?
I have these exact lights Renee except mine are about 150w I think. I work in Manual.
never had anything like that though. I use about 1/60 and F8 the lights go up from 1/4 power to full power.
Are you using the sync cord from your camera to the light and then setting the second light off via the infra red or what?
h.r.ford
13-05-2007, 16:24
I've got an infrared thingamajoby that goes on my hotshoe then I use the other one as a slave. Don't you find 1/60 too slow for kids?
Also move your models away from the background put one light at the side of them but pointing onto the bg and the other light by your side onto the models and less power.
http://www.janicehobbs.com/testshoot3.jpg
http://www.janicehobbs.com/Mayball_1.jpg
I've got an infrared thingamajoby that goes on my hotshoe then I use the other one as a slave. Don't you find 1/60 too slow for kids?
Why dont yoiu have one light joined to your camera by the sync cord. then the other one will go off correctly by the small red light on top of it which receives the flash and it goes off then.
EDIT: Make sure the button corresponding the the IR light onthe top is switched on or it wont work
h.r.ford
13-05-2007, 16:32
Lack of space makes pulling them away from the background hard so normally I have to fix in PP. I don't have a sync cord just the infrared thingy. I tried it at 1/60 and f11 and they are correctly exposed I just wish I could get more speed but I guess you get what you pay for!
Sounds like the sync between the camera and the heads is.... well out of sync.
Not sure what camera you have but I'd be very very surprised if your max speed for flash was anything less than 125th. The black section of the shot is the shutter curtain, which means that the flash is either firing to early or too late. If you knew whether that was the first blind trying to move out of the way, or the second one closing up again, you'd know if your flash was early or late.
When you switch from 1st to 2nd sync, does the black still apear in the same place? Also, do you have any other way to trigger the flash heads? Even popping up an onboard flash (if the heads have a slave built in) might let you narrow down the possible causes.
Don't you find 1/60 too slow for kids?
You need to dig out your camera manual and find out what your flash sync speed is. My D5D has a max sync speed of 1/160 with A/S turned off. Anything faster than this when using studio lights and I get the same results as you where you can see the second curtain closing. Make sure your camera is set to fill flash, not red-eye or rear sync. Then sart again slowly winding the shutter speed up until you start to get the half black frame. Once you get it you now you've exceeded the max sync speed for the camera. I'd be very surprised if the max sync speed for the camera is 1/50th. I wonder if your sync speed changes with ISO setting?
I don't know if it will work with your camera but with mine when I'm in shutter priority and it's set to say 1/1000 when I open the flash up it changes to 1/160 because the camera knows that's as fast as it can go with a flash.
Try it and let us know.
There is a sync cord in the box, well there was with mine.
And like just mentioned you can trigger it with your onboard flash or an external flash as long as you have the trigger buttons turned on on the units. both switches down.
h.r.ford
13-05-2007, 16:38
When I changed the shutter sync the black bar stayed in the same place which is odd in itself. I tried chaging the lights to see which one it was but that didn't change anything either. I don't have an onboard flash anymore as it died yesterday.
I just wish I could get more speed but I guess you get what you pay for!
I paid £70 for mine and its perfect. not a speed issue. im sure its your flash sync on your camera that band is very indicative of that.
h.r.ford
13-05-2007, 16:46
I think we have found the issue! If I slave it off my onboard flash everything works fine. So the issue is the infrared thingamabob. BUT while I found the sync cord I can't figure out where it plugs in on my 350D. Please help.
I think we have found the issue! If I slave it off my onboard flash everything works fine. So the issue is the infrared thingamabob. BUT while I found the sync cord I can't figure out where it plugs in on my 350D. Please help.
AH it doesnt!! i am borrowing sue's 350d and wanted to use the studio flash and couldnt!!
you can slave it off an external flash sitting on your camera and turned down or bounced off the ceiling or something.
h.r.ford
13-05-2007, 16:48
Well that sucks! Explains why I couldn't find it though. but my hotshoe flash is broken so I can't use that all I have is the onboard that it comes with.
Thanks so much everyone for your help in solving this problem though.
Keltic Ice Man
13-05-2007, 16:51
Does your wireless thingy not have a socket in it for the cable? Mine does so I can use it with the 350D
Keltic Ice Man
13-05-2007, 16:53
"Don't you find 1/60 too slow for kids?"
Does 1/60th work ok with kids? I too am trying to learn these things
You need one of these http://www.warehouseexpress.com/images/kaiser/1300fsa.gif for the flash sync cord to connect to the camera hot shoe.
Warehouse express (http://www.warehouseexpress.com/?/photo/flashguns/kaiseracc.html) have them for £6.99
h.r.ford
13-05-2007, 16:55
Well I've put a piece of paper over the flash. I'm still only getting speeds of 1/100 but it is better than before by a long shot!
h.r.ford
13-05-2007, 16:56
Great Matt thanks! I'll put it next on the list.
h.r.ford
13-05-2007, 16:57
"Don't you find 1/60 too slow for kids?"
Does 1/60th work ok with kids? I too am trying to learn these things
I personally find anything below 1/100 too slow for my 3 year old but for older kids who will listen when you say be still you could probably get away with slower.
nelly3164
13-05-2007, 16:58
jesus i was worried, because i know the lights and the trigger worked for me on a test run, i was thinking have i done something to knack them up but i had them out the box for 1 hour literally, i think i used them at 1/125 at f16 and it worked for me. just as a matter of fact my avatar photo was taken with the flash setup.
nelly3164
13-05-2007, 17:12
this is one pic i took with the flash setup, i know its far from perfect but you get the general idea.
http://s36.photobucket.com/albums/e47/nelly3164/th_reece1.jpg.
Jimmy_Lemon
13-05-2007, 17:20
only scanned this thread - but I got a similar thing when I first tried my 430flashgun. Turned out the camera didnt realise it was there because the connection on the shoe were dirty and only some of them were connecting and it was doing all sort of crazyness.
Just a thought :)
P.S to clean them I just rubbed them with some tissue and lens cloth.
If this is totaly missing the point, sorry - only on a flying visit :p
"Don't you find 1/60 too slow for kids?"
Does 1/60th work ok with kids? I too am trying to learn these things
kinda depends on the balance between the flash and ambient light. If the lights are bright enough then the room light really doesn't make much of an impact on the shot at all and whatever speed you have the shutter set at, the frame is still only exposed by the flash which lasts only 1000ths of a second.
If you're using room light with fill in flash then you need to keep that speed up.
As for using onboard flash to trigger studio heads, you should be able to turn the power right down on the camera unit so it still sets of the heads but won't show on the shots at all.
It's all fun isn't it. :lol: I know I've had many a time where I was totally exhausted from getting the setup just right and couldn't face going onto the shoot.
It's all fun isn't it. :lol: I know I've had many a time where I was totally exhausted from getting the setup just right and couldn't face going onto the shoot.
You're right there! The first post I put above was a test shot in readiness for the lower ones...all worked fine and I got a white background with no creases and no ps work need.
Took the older boys out there for the real thing and it all went to pot and I had to spend ages in photoshop.
It puts me off and I dont do any studio work again for ages. :(
AH it doesnt!! i am borrowing sue's 350d and wanted to use the studio flash and couldnt!!
Sorry Janice. :(
Hope you manage to get it sorted Renee
Sorry Janice. :(
No probs, Sue..........it was for my competition shot and I only got one vote anyway!!! :D :lol:
It puts me off and I dont do any studio work again for ages.
From what I remember, you have quite alot of ambient light in your setup which can play total havoc with consistency. Keeping light not under your control out is just as important as what you do with the kit.
I don't do much portrait stuff these days but I've done enough that the lights almost walk themselves into position now. If you really want to bake your noodle, table top still life should be enough of a challenge. ;)
what you do with the kit.
yes ive always found it quite important what you do with your kit!!! :naughty: :D :lol:
From what I remember, you have quite alot of ambient light in your setup which can play total havoc with consistency. Keeping light not under your control out is just as important as what you do with the kit
You're quite right. I mightve had more or less sun coming into the conservatory and used the same settings for each and it didnt work.
At first thought it seems ideal out there...but ideally a darkish garage would probably be best where it is all under control.
I had no idea you payed any interest to my kit, or what I do with it. ;)
Quite flattered. :lol:
I had no idea you payed any interest to my kit, or what I do with it. ;)
Quite flattered. :lol:
Well of course I do! You let me have a try of a bit of it didnt you!! :naughty: :D
You let me have a try of a bit of it didnt you!!
You know I'll never forget the time you had a press of my buttons. :D
You know I'll never forget the time you had a press of my buttons. :D
I should hope you won't!
But I knew it wouldnt be fair on you, to keep pressing your buttons, and all it did, in truth, was make me feel the need for another!! :D :lol: :naughty:
One thing to bear in mind when using the onboard flash to trigger the heads is the problem with pre-flash. If your camera flash uses pre-flash-ttl then the pre-flashes can set the studio lights off too quickly.
ilikebowens
14-05-2007, 20:27
Hello H R Ford,
I think you probably have this licked from reading the other replies, but here’s my advice for what it’s worth.
Use the cameras manual exposure mode, not Av, Tv, P or anything other than M(annual)
Set the shutter speed at the maximum flash sync speed for your camera or less. This is 1/200 for a Canon EOS 350D.
Use a flash meter to calculate the aperture you need and the ratio between the heads if you are using more than one. You cannot rely on the image preview for anything other than a rough idea. When you look at the flash meter reading for the main light, lets say f8, you would use this as your camera lens setting. You would then need to decide if you want any other light(s) the same, brighter or darker i.e. if you use a second light on a white background you would want to set its output so that the meter reading for this head is f11. In this way you would have a white background with a correctly exposed subject.
You can sync the flash head with a cable from one head to the camera and the second head set to slave (you would need the hot shoe adapter shown elsewhere to do this on a EOS 350D) or you could use an IR trigger, but these tend to be flaky even when one or more of the heads are fitted with an IR receiver. Best of all (and most expensive) is a radio trigger one on the camera to transmit and one on a head to receive with the other set to slave or even better still a receiver on each head (plus the camera transmitter of course!).
Ambient light should be kept to a minimum in the studio to avoid effecting the lighting effect you have created, studio flash is about controlling the quality as well as the quantity of light.
With flash only exposure shutter speed is not an issue as even children are slower than light. For some specialist shots such as the famous bullet passing through a light bulb or playing card a “high speed flash” is used. This is simply a flash head (or bulb) with a very short discharge time. For all domestic/normal applications any flash unit will fire faster than the fastest shutter speed setting your camera has for ambient light photography.
I hope this is of some interest to you.
ilikebowens
So all this advice, how you getting on Renee?
h.r.ford
14-05-2007, 20:41
Well I'm ok but need to buy another part for my flash sync... Right now I have a piece of paper over my onboard flash to set off the slave flashes. I"ll play more next weekend when I have more time.
vBulletin® v3.7.3, Copyright ©2000-2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.