View Full Version : Just been DNA profiled
Don't know if anyone remembers the Alistair Wilson case from up here a while ago but I happened to be in the town that night getting the Sunday night curry :D Got a letter last week asking me to "volunteer" for testing :suspect: Also got fingerprinted and a rather nice polaroid portrait taken, although when they came out with the number board I was a bit worried :lol:
Now I've got to wait 4 weeks for them to confirm I'm not the suspect :(
More info here (http://news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=1229)
does that mean you need to change your picture in your profile to include a number board as well?
Let us know where you need to file and cake delivering to.
does that mean you need to change your picture in your profile to include a number board as well?
Let us know where you need to file and cake delivering to.
No carrot cake please :D
Good morning inky digits :lol:
... I hear that stuff is a bugger to remove!
Is that the guy who was shot on his own doorstep?
LOL. Poor Doddy. :D
Hope they get the *******(s). DNA profiling is the most exciting thing in crime detection since fingerprints. They've obviously got what they suspect is the culprits DNA. Even if this elimination process doesn't turn him up, if he's arrested for any sort of minor crime where DNA samples are routinely taken at any time in his life he's a dead man walking.
Good morning inky digits :lol:
... I hear that stuff is a bugger to remove!
Is that the guy who was shot on his own doorstep?
Aye, that's him Glo, and you're right that stuff is sticky, you should see my nails :lol:
Got to say the WPC in charge made the whole trip worthwhile :naughty:
Could you have refused?
How long does your DNA stay on record - I take it forever?
Could you have refused?
I suppose technically I could have, but what would it have looked like :eek:
How long does your DNA stay on record - I take it forever?
Before they did the test you have to sign a form. The options are to have it destroyed immediately after the investigation is completed or it can be held for ever. Bearing in mind this investigation could take years to complete yet I signed for it to be left on record. Didn't see the point in saying to destroy it, if I became involved as a real suspect in anything in the future I don't think they'd have any problem in obtaining a sample :p
I suppose technically I could have, but what would it have looked like :eek:
Plus of course you now have a unique avitar :D
photomad
18-07-2007, 20:12
hope you havent done anything naughty in the past :D :D
coldcase and all that
hope you havent done anything naughty in the past :D :D
coldcase and all that
I do recall pinching a few apples as a yoof, but nobody will ever know ;)
photomad
18-07-2007, 20:29
:nono: :nono:
I dont think this DNA thing is bad. I would be happy for mine to be kept on record, it could protect you from wrongful arrest in the future.
I also agree with ID cards etc. Im not likely to commit any crimes so i dont mind. I know there are people who say its against human rights, but is it really?
Dean:)
photomad
18-07-2007, 20:42
you could be stating a very long thread here.
i have an opinion but i will keep it to myself. like to hear what other people think though
I'm in 2 minds about this.
I think we have the right to privacy, and as such there should be no records for a person who has not done anything wrong... then I think well what harm does it do if you have nothing to hide?? and if everyones was on file, crimes would be easier to solve??
On the fence I guess!!
I dont think this DNA thing is bad. I would be happy for mine to be kept on record, it could protect you from wrongful arrest in the future.
I also agree with ID cards etc. Im not likely to commit any crimes so i dont mind. I know there are people who say its against human rights, but is it really?
Dean:)
Was waiting for something like that ;)
I'm firmly of the view that if you've done nothing wrong the Police can have whatever information they want. I know there have been miscarriages of justice but in percentage terms it must be miniscule. The publicity machine isn't interested in the headline "Police get it right again".
MichaelPlace
18-07-2007, 21:01
Id certainly be in two minds about giving DNA - and I'm a perfectly law abiding citizen. I'd definitely have opted to delete after the investigation if i'd have agreed to do it. Just scares the **** out of me. DNA profiling is so relatively new - how can you be sure mistakes arn't being made now? Being framed for a crime you never committed due to dodgy DNA - and in court DNA is taken as a certainty, you can't argue with it.
Remember that story about the white couple having fertility treatment? ended up with a black baby? someone mixed up the samples at the lab - wouldn't be too much to stretch the imagination to think a similar thing could happen here?
I would have asked for it to be destroyed.
When there was a young girl murdered localy years ago the lorry I was driving at the time was the same colour as one seen where her body was dumped, I had someone come around and take all my tachograph charts and fingerprints, they done the same to everyone in the area but we was all asked if we would participate first, but when they eliminated me and others they returned the charts by hand and destroyed the prints in front of me.
The actual ID cards I wouldnt object to its the manner in which they are suggestion they would be "voluntary" but you wont be allowed a passport without signing up for one.
Not a problem for me, i'll just get myself an Irish passport as i can be considered an irish national :p
magpieant
19-07-2007, 20:13
ID Cards - is that not the same as the little pink driving licence?
No objections from me either - although we generally carry that much ID - driving licence, credit cards, work pass, etc I don't see the point.
Anth.
Forbiddenbiker
20-07-2007, 08:25
I've been arrested, swabbed, digitized and boxed accordingly... all against my will and no apology deemed necessary when they let me out without charge half a day later.
I do think it’s an infringement, and my rights did seem totally disregarded, I was offered no choice, my details will be taken, If I'd refuse they have the right to forcefully hold me down take my dna. :eek: ...not the police force that I grew up respecting I can tell you, more of a judge dread kinda feel. More like, your guilty until we/you prove your innocence.
--
Is becoming common knowledge that this countries category is being swapped, (bad expression, but hey) it is being re-designed to be the biggest tourist spot on the planet….it’s one of our better exports.
Interesting that is, when you think where also the only modern country who does not have a fully integrated immigration control system, … but we do have the largest amount of CCTV surveillance systems by far. Interestingly this week; the London congestion cameras have just been utilized to provide the police with a permanent feed; in the news yesterday, …and that’s just the start of it I bet you.
We’re also the only country heading towards having the first nation wide DNA database of its population… that’ll be a very useful (profitable) tool in the future.
The writings on the wall I reckon. We will be logged, boxed and categorised …and you know what those categories are like, you’ve all seen the forms, had those questions. Even getting a parking permit to park out side my house I have to tell them my age , religion, and skin colour type, what the heck that has to do with parking … I can only assume bad stuff (I’ve been on the electoral roll for 20 years ffs)
I do think the police need dna profiling to keep on top of crime, but I’m terrified when I think of my sons freedoms being boxed and categorized. In time, insurance companies, mortgage companies, private health service and even everyday employers will have access to peoples data …that means to me, that we will no longer be equals! …bit like your credit report, only it will affect all portions of your freedom less life not just the interest rate you can get on a loan.
Is that progress? … doesn’t sound right to me.
Oh sorry, bit of a rant and I forgot the lol at the end .lol ;)
antonroland
20-07-2007, 14:05
You guys should think a bit wider than criminal applications!:p
Disasters, natural or terro induced, are one good reason for a large DNA database.
Obviously this should not be used for criminal investigation but your statutory constitutional or entrenched common-law principles SHOULD guarantee the innocent individual his or her privacy and all that.:shrug:
:thumbs:
Waheeyyyy, I'm cleared :lol: Need a new avatar now
Do they keep a copy of your DNA on record now, or has it been destroyed?
Do they keep a copy of your DNA on record now, or has it been destroyed?
See post 9 :)
Phew. Glad to hear it. Was touch and go for a moment then. I already had someone lined up for your locker :p
woadrage
06-08-2007, 11:53
See post 9 :)
Unfortunately the mere fact that your DNA is on the UK police database means that if you are stopped for any reason by the police anywhere in the EU they will give you a harder time than if you weren't. The reason is that it is assumed that if you are known to the police it's for a very good reason.
Get pulled over by the gendermes in France - expect to be detained longer than you would have been.
Be unfortunate enough to be near the scene of a crime or incident and you will be much higher up the suspect list that you would have been.
It may lead to nothing more than a minor inconvenience, but you never know. Not all police, UK or otherwise, are either competent or honest.
sepulchre
06-08-2007, 12:00
Interesting, never heard of external countries having such info at their finger tips, i would imagine an interpol search would be required first.
To be honest I think it should be a national, compulsory, database for crime fighting/prevention use only. Where I don't think it should be used or made available is the insurance field.
sepulchre
06-08-2007, 12:55
To be honest I think it should be a national, compulsory, database for crime fighting/prevention use only. Where I don't think it should be used or made available is the insurance field.
I quite agree, although the data contained in a DNA profile of this type does not infer any medical diagnoses (at all) that could be of use to an insurance company, or are you thinking about insurance companies from another perspective?
I quite agree, although the data contained in a DNA profile of this type does not infer any medical diagnoses (at all) that could be of use to an insurance company, or are you thinking about insurance companies from another perspective?
I was of the understanding that DNA samples could contain information about genetic problems. If you're saying there are different sorts of DNA testing and this particular type has no medical diagnostic component then I really think one of the major emotional arguments against it disappears.
sepulchre
06-08-2007, 13:52
The DNA sample taken from you would contain many hundreds of copies of your entire genetic make up, however the testing employed in human identification centres around specific portions of DNA all of which arise from sections of the genome referred to as 'none coding DNA' which as the name implies are not used to make you what you are.
This type of testing shouldn't be confused with genetic testing which can be used to identify genetic abnormalities which may be either life threatening/shortening or passed to your children.
So your understanding of the DNA sample is correct, but the sample itself would not be analysed in any way which could provide a medical diagnoses.
To be honest I think it should be a national, compulsory, database for crime fighting/prevention use only. Where I don't think it should be used or made available is the insurance field.
No, no, no, no and no :-)
Sorry, I can see why some would see the benefits of this, but for me it's not about practicality or crime fighting. It's about the fundamental relationship between the individual and the state. The privacy of the individual belongs to the individual - it does not belong to the state. Making compulsory databases shifts this balances - my record belongs to the state, and with the state's blessing only may I be free. This is the reverse of how it should be - the state serves us, and we should be speaking of more open-government and less official secrets, not more state power and less individual privacy.
That speaks only of today. Maybe some trust today's government more than I do - but do you trust every state power and every government ever to come in future? Because your records will be there, as will a record of every car trip you've taken, every city you've walked through, every bus or train journey. The only way to ensure such a horrific intrusion of privacy is never mis-used is never to make it in the first place.
I can hear the "nothing to hide, nothing to fear" now :-) I will only listen to such comments from people who have no curtains in their house. If you do - why? Do you have something to hide...? ;-)
If you do - why?
Keeps the heat in at night, so heating bills are reduced.
Also allows me to black out a room during the day should the sun be shining across my monitor/TV etc.
:p
I will only listen to such comments from people who have no curtains in their house. If you do - why? Do you have something to hide...? ;-)
Well, the only ones we close are in the bedroom and bathroom; the bedroom ones stop the early morning sun waking me up and the bathroom ones are for your protection, not mine :p
As to the rest, too close to politics, time for me to shut up ;)
Keeps the heat in at night, so heating bills are reduced.
Also allows me to black out a room during the day should the sun be shining across my monitor/TV etc.
:p
Right laddie, we've heard all that before. What sort of stuff you looking at on your computer that you need the curtains shut during the day?! I think we'll need to be taking your computer for investigation... :D
HIMUPNORTH
06-08-2007, 19:32
Aaah! Now I see the reason why you changed your avatar. The DNA test said you were gay! ;)
Aaah! Now I see the reason why you changed your avatar. The DNA test said you were gay! ;)
LOL, it was meant to say "I'm FREEEE!!" :D
Better get a new avatar :lol:
HIMUPNORTH
06-08-2007, 19:40
I did get the joke George but could not resist.
How about OJ Simpson?
:coat:
Hehe, I literally did laugh out loud :D
Fantastic methods of detection are all well and good but it's often let down by the courts.
I'd remind all people in favour of ID cards that they are no use if they are just kept in a wallet. Once they're in they're going to be used to be useful. And that will happen from just about pillar to post. Car parking, libraries, banks, swimming pools, you name it, anywhere they want to know you're not a risk you can bet you'll be asked to show it. The next step will be microchipping us!
Personally I'm against them. If you think about what happens when biometric data is compromised, it can't be changed and therefore to retain any use it must be added to.
And finally, do we really want to entrust our information to a beaurocratic government who have already managed to lose millions of personal data records, some of which was in America (just what were UK records doing statside anyway?).
Interesting thread, i find the whole thing a bit difficult to grasp tbh. Because its not all as simple as seems to be.
It would be very easy to mix up DNA samples at any point in the chain. ID cards like your passport can be lost stolen and cloned.
I currently have blood held in a lab following a needstick injury i got at work. But having been on the recieving end of lost samples on lots of occasions i do wonder if that blood ill be available if needed. So do they keep your DNA sample that will degrade or just the lab results. Because if its just the results, they could have been miss labelled and miss filed etc and you wont have the original sample to refer back to.
Also do identical twins have the same DNA? i know they have the same finger prints ( well at birth they do, your finger print changes over time with small cuts and things.)
Also do identical twins have the same DNA? i know they have the same finger prints ( well at birth they do, your finger print changes over time with small cuts and things.)
They don't have the same attitudes, or the same size bums when they're 25. I know, I checked :D (My wife is one)
sepulchre
17-05-2008, 13:18
It would be very easy to mix up DNA samples at any point in the chain. ID cards like your passport can be lost stolen and cloned
Its not at all easy to mix up samples as you suggest, and you cant clone your DNA - well at least not at home :D
Any yes true identical twins will have the same DNA.
Also do identical twins have the same DNA? i know they have the same finger prints ( well at birth they do, your finger print changes over time with small cuts and things.)
Daft as it sounds, you can have a scar across a print in any unusual shape you can think of and it wouldn't be evidential as far as fingerprints are concerned. Identification has to come from the ridge patterns within the prints themselves, and nowhere else.
Identical twins don't actually have identical prints, although they may be very similar, they do have differences due to all sorts of factors such as position in the womb, individual nutrition and other considerations. There has never been a case of two people having identical fingerprints in the whole history of fingerprinting, which is the reason that fingerprints are considered 100% conclusive evidence.
DNA profiling doesn't provide 100% conclusive evidence, which is why the evidence has to quote the odds that it could be someone else - usually many millions to one against.
Personally I think DNA profiling is the biggest advance in crime detection since fingerprinting. People are getting arrested today for shoplifting or dangerous driving and as a result getting convicted of horrendous rapes and murders from over 30 years ago - it's now a common occurrence for DNA to yield these sorts of results as the database has been running for over 20 years.
It wouldn't concern me in the least giving my DNA tomorrow if need be - I have nothing to hide or fear from it. Having said that, I value my freedom and personal liberty as much as the next guy, so I can appreciate the legitimate concerns some people have about the possible misuse of the database.
whiteflyer
17-05-2008, 13:20
So your DNA profile will now or in the near future be sold to the insurance industry (Gordon needs the money you know) So let's hope you have no hidden/unknown condition that will prevent a you getting a policy.
Personally I think DNA profiling is the biggest advance in crime detection since fingerprinting. People are getting arrested today for shoplifting or dangerous driving and as a result getting convicted of horrendous rapes and murders from over 30 years ago - it's now a common occurence for DNA to yield these sort of results as the database has been running for over 20 years
It's also a nice way to keep the police off the streets preventing crime. Why go out in the cold and rain when they can just collect DNA AFTER a crime and sit in a nice warm office running it through the database.
inaneredstripe
17-05-2008, 13:29
if passports can be faked, so can ID cards.
criminals arent bothered if they drop some innocent in the sh..
i dont have a prob with DNA being taken personaly.
if you dont commit crime , youve nowt to worry about.
not sure about polaroids though.
i look guilty.;)
It's also a nice way to keep the police off the streets preventing crime. Why go out in the cold and rain when they can just collect DNA AFTER a crime and sit in a nice warm office running it through the database.
LOL. Just a little bit glib that. ;) I'm all for putting more cops on the streets, but I don't think for a moment anyone seriously believes you can prevent all crimes by doing that.
Also the database isn't worth zippo if the actual geezer they're looking for doesn't have his DNA profile on record, so it's not quite that easy. What's great about it though is someone with a clean record can commit a string of serial murders with nothing to worry about from DNA, but for the rest of his life he's at risk if he nicks a tin of beans from Asda or gets done for dangerous driving etc. Does anyone seriously find anything wrong with that? :shrug:
sepulchre
17-05-2008, 15:55
It's also a nice way to keep the police off the streets preventing crime. Why go out in the cold and rain when they can just collect DNA AFTER a crime and sit in a nice warm office running it through the database.
You are extracting the urine aren't you?
Holy thread revival :eek:
Well, I'm still walking about, not been wrongfully arrested, charged, dragged in for questioning. I'm sticking by my earlier comments, I think it should be compulsory.
I also agree with ID cards etc. Im not likely to commit any crimes so i dont mind. I know there are people who say its against human rights, but is it really?
Dean:)
I disagree with ID cards because I think they'll be pointless and expensive, how will they stop crime unless the criminal drops it at the scene, even they he could say it'd been stolen.
The government have already admitted they have no plans to make carrying the card compulsory, so what's the point :shrug:
vBulletin® v3.7.3, Copyright ©2000-2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.