What do you know about scanning negatives ? [Archive]

steveinspain

08-02-2008, 16:31

I am hoping to get started shooting film very soon, and will need to scan the negs (I have no darkroom yet..).
So, having never scanned anything before, what help can you give me ?
Any tricks or techniques I need to know about ?
Cheers
Steve

marko400d

08-02-2008, 16:42

Obviously you'll need a scanner and scanning can be quite BORING!!! All depends how much money you want to spend, flatbed scanners have come on quite a lot these last couple of years. It really depends on how much youve to spend. And of course what format you are using. If you give more info then im sure a few people on here will be forthcoming with good advice.

steveinspain

08-02-2008, 16:46

marko - I will be shooting 6x6 and 6x7, mainly black and white. The scanner is not yet known, but maybe an Epson v500 or 700, but possibly a Nikon coolscan 8000, if I can get one at an affordable price..
What more do I need to tell you..?
I have used a flatbed scanner for scanning 'other' stuff, but never for negatives, so am a total beginner !

marko400d

08-02-2008, 16:52

The scanners you mention are all highly thought of. As i said above the pricier you go the better reults you'll get. I scan through Photoshop though sanners do come with software. though the software supplied with scanners is a bit limiting in my experience. There's not much to explain really, other than its very time-consuming, which was one reason i moved to digital cameras. Any specific questions i'll try to answer

steveinspain

08-02-2008, 16:57

Cheers marko - once I have some, I'll ask !
Just why is it time consuming - is it just a slow process, or is there lots to do ?

AB22 Easy Tiger

08-02-2008, 16:58

marko400d

08-02-2008, 17:08

no problem steve, it's a pleasure to help
its just takes time for the scanner to scan, it's a lot of sitting waiting for the scan to come through. will you be scanning using photoshop? i would recommend it....i'm going home soon so won't be online for a while, just in case you think i ignoring you!

steveinspain

08-02-2008, 17:11

marko - for when you can reply...
scanning through photoshop ??
I have elements 5, and also ACDSee. These good enough ?
Why do I need to scan through anything ?
I assumed you scanned, then manipulated as and when with whatever, but clearly not.....
Blimey - another learning curve, I fear !

marko400d

08-02-2008, 17:12

steve, to be honest they proberbly are, i'm just a photoshop pusher!

steveinspain

08-02-2008, 17:25

Go home, pusher-man !

Ally

08-02-2008, 18:21

The bigger negs - 5x4 6x4 etc are better done on a flat bed I would rekon, unless you have a few grand spare for a scanner? if you can find one that does large format :shrug: The largest we use at the college is medium format, large format negs have to be done on a flatbed.

Chuckurbarla

08-02-2008, 19:02

Other than getting slides and negs scanned and saved on a CD by the shop (which I'm quite disappointed with out here) I've never done any of this before. I just bought myself a slide copier to fit on the front of the camera in place of the lens, hoping that will do a good job :shrug:

joxby

08-02-2008, 21:32

Hmmm, yeah, I had some scans done of some 35mm, they are sharp, well exposed and good colour, the film was colour reversal not my favourite film, but the worst thing about them were the lines across nearly every one.
Its not the scanning, the lines are on the negs, machine development sucks....a lot.
I have a Minolta dedicated scanner now, my flatbed can take a running jump, just gotta work out how to connect the thing, what the heck is SCSI, and what are these stupid 25 pin 80's connectors/leads rubbish.
I never had anything that didn't plug into a usb or firewire port, instructions would be handy:thinking:

http://i30.tinypic.com/2n6buav.jpg

http://i30.tinypic.com/spkzh0.jpg

http://i27.tinypic.com/2jbllao.jpg

Canon Bob

08-02-2008, 22:06

Hmmm, yeah, I had some scans done of some 35mm, they are sharp, well exposed and good colour, the film was colour reversal not my favourite film, but the worst thing about them were the lines across nearly every one.
Its not the scanning, the lines are on the negs, machine development sucks....a lot.
I have a Minolta dedicated scanner now, my flatbed can take a running jump, just gotta work out how to connect the thing, what the heck is SCSI, and what are these stupid 25 pin 80's connectors/leads rubbish.
I never had anything that didn't plug into a usb or firewire port, instructions would be handy:thinking:

I've got a Minolta Quickscan 35 and a couple of SCSI cards. I'm no expert but may be able to pass on a tit bit or two.

Bob

joxby

08-02-2008, 22:23

Thanks Bob
well, I know I have a SCSI port on the back of my pc.
think I'm just gonna have to plug it in and see what happens.
I dont know why there are 2 leads and 2 different sockets on the back of the scanner, cant use both.
I dont even know if the SCSI card on the pc is compatable.

zeroeseight

08-02-2008, 23:47

Download the manual here Joxby. A medium format film scanner, cool :)

http://ca.konicaminolta.com/support/manuals/scanners/dimage-scanners/index.html

john-oh

09-02-2008, 10:42

The best scanning info site I've come across is here : http://www.scantips.com/

I use this Vuescan software from : http://www.hamrick.com/ this works with over 700 scanners.

CapnKick

09-02-2008, 10:51

I used to scan all my 35mm negs before switching to digital. Minolta makes some great scanners, but like marko said, it's very boring and time consuming. For high-resolution scans you really need a book to read while the scan is being performed.

joxby

09-02-2008, 11:05

Download the manual here Joxby. A medium format film scanner, cool :)

http://ca.konicaminolta.com/support/manuals/scanners/dimage-scanners/index.html

Thanks zero, well found, I could only find a read online one:thumbs:

oh gods, I need to sleep, food poisoning is not good..

dcash29

09-02-2008, 11:36

What do you know about scanning negatives ?

That my Nikon CS3 does it with ease

Slipper-one

09-02-2008, 12:13

I use an epson gt 7000 with film adapter old tech but works reasonably ok. Just in case you fancy a cheapish one to try, ebay Item number: 130196536941
or I have a scsi unit spare minus adapter foc, when you next in UK?

Scuzi

09-02-2008, 13:36

sprint95m

09-02-2008, 17:47

Can anyone recommend a lab that will develop film and scan the negatives onto CD as well? The local Boots and other such places do it but the resolution and sharpness is quite poor.

I'm using both negative and slide film if that makes any difference at all.

Realistically, to get the best quality, you'll have to go to one of the Pro labs, which is expensive.
(The reason the CDs you have had made so far are poor is purely down to cost - to make them cheap they cut corners, hence poor resolution.)

The principle of good scanning is the same for negatives and slides.

barryjohnston43

09-02-2008, 20:59

steveinspain

11-02-2008, 08:39

marko400d - jist to pop this back up to the top - I think I have bought me a coolscan 8000 scanner, so hope thats up to the job..!

marko400d

12-02-2008, 22:37

Hey steve, congratulations, i'm sure it will be....buy a good book to read whilst scanning though!!

steveinspain

12-02-2008, 23:14

any recommendations..?

marko400d

12-02-2008, 23:30

errrrrrr war and peace!

Glen

12-02-2008, 23:32

You could try and get your hands on a drum scanner, I use a Linotype_Hell 3300 its the size of a small car but scans an A4 full Res Tx in only a few minutes.

Were £30-40k around 10-15 years ago, but you might pick one up on fleebay for a few hundred quid.

Here you go, picture found via google, told you it was big....

http://195.177.193.138/gallery/data/1384/bild.jpg

antonroland

16-02-2008, 11:05

O.K. so what exactly is a drum scan and why is/was it better than a flatbed apart from the fact that flatbeds have come a long way in the last few years?

Time issues:shrug:

Looking at getting the Epson 750 soon as I am getting a Mamiya MF camera soon as a buddy to my flock of K-1000s.

Looking forward to hearing from you:thumbs:

joxby

16-02-2008, 22:37

Theres nothing much special about drum scanners other than the light and receptor used to record a scan.
They use lazers and a photo multiplyer tube that records far more detail/dynamic range than the ccd based scanners us togs use, the drum spins as it scans, the slower the spin the more resolution is recorded.
Dedicated scanners scan only film and therefore are optimised for one scan medium only, they are the best you can get besides drum scanners.
Flatbeds do a few jobs besides film, so generally compromises have to be made in the design of the optics and whatever, both are just ccd recording much like a digital camera, the length of time it takes to scan a neg is effectively a shutter speed...

antonroland

17-02-2008, 07:28

A drum scanner (like a dedicated film scanner) is ever so slightly beyond my budget and so I thought I'd buy the best flatbed I could find and afford.

How far apart are they in IQ?

joxby

17-02-2008, 10:13

Technology as with everything else changes, the flatbeds are getting better and better all the time, I could only talk about what I've used and seen personally.
I wasn't impressed with my epson 4490, and generally all the flatbeds get reviews ranging from the dogs cajones to a pile of crap dont buy it.
I thought I'd take that inconsistency out of the equation and buy a dedicated, the complaints about those are generally software based not the scanner itself.
Maybe the new flatbeds like the V750/700 or microteks M1 are as good as dedicated, or as near as doesn't matter...I just dont know...I'd have to use one.
I've seen some great scans out of an epson 4990, Canons 9500F and the V750/700, how much pp is included:shrug:
The software used to scan is almost as important as the scanner itself..

sprog

17-02-2008, 10:47

I use a V700 with all the software whistles & bells turned off and PP in tattyshop.

Digital ICE takes forever and the results aren't all that good, images come out a bit muddy and soft. I tend to cherry pick the images at the preview scan stage and work on them in photoshop after the main scan. The film holders are adequate but probably easy to break if you're not careful.

BTW you don't get an awful lot more for the extra money of a V750 over the V700 either, there are a lot of p****d-off V750 owners out there.

antonroland

17-02-2008, 15:23

BTW you don't get an awful lot more for the extra money of a V750 over the V700 either, there are a lot of p****d-off V750 owners out there.

I gathered this much looking at the specs;)

The price difference down here is about R 6,5 K vs R 8,3 K.

Quite a bit to pay for bragging rights and little else:shrug:

joxby

17-02-2008, 16:06

The V750 is supposed to be optically superior to the V700 and it can take a fluid mount, that is, the film is placed directly on to the glass using some optical fluid like a drum scanner, this clears imperfections in the film, makes it as flat and square to the sensor as possible and ensures there are no newton rings.
I remain unconvinced at the difference between a V700 scan and a V750 with or without fluid mount....
The guys that manufacture the fluid, have an instructional video I've posted before, and they swear on their mothers life its the beginning and the end of fablious flatbed scanning.....but.....they would say that, wouldn't they:bang:
Seriously sprog, give your V700 marks out of 10..
Are you dissappointed by any amount or are you getting what you expected, bearing in mind "getting what you expected" doesn't mean they're that brilliant.
If I ever get this Minolta going I'm gonna critique it to the death...and then some..

sprog

17-02-2008, 20:24

Seriously sprog, give your V700 marks out of 10..

I'd give it an 8.

I paid £350 for it off Amazon and the only real criticism I have with it is the flaky software (not really an issue because I do all my PP in Photoshop) and the flimsy film mounts (35mm negatives are not held very flat) It would be nice to be able to adjust the focus but I suppose you have to draw the line somewhere if costs are to remain reasonable. I may invest in a fluid mount for the more critical scans, I believe it retails for about 40-50 quid.

Oh, and it's a sod to keep dust free, the huge glass surface areas seem to attract it like nothing else I've seen so I'll have to look at getting some anti-static cleaner or something.

joxby

17-02-2008, 20:40

You kinda hit the nail on the head with that word "focus", that is the absolute number one worst thing and the reason I hate my 4490, the focus was terrible, hugely frustrating when I through a loupe can see the negs are sharp as hell, my d70 slide copy macro arrangement was miles sharper, but blows the highlights:lol:.
Dunno what software the v700 comes with but I thought the EpsonScan that came with the 4490 was 8/10 pretty good.
I pinched a big blusher brush off our lass, it sits alongside the scanner and is as important as electricity for scanning.
Dont think the fluid mount is available for the v700..
Ere, I was reading somewhere that the mounts have adjustable legs or something to give a little focussing adjustment...or shims....I forget ?

zeroeseight

17-02-2008, 20:59

The film height adjusters did seem to make a little difference to the quality of scans on mine. I have a dedicated 35mm film scanner Minolta Dimage Dual Scan IV, the V700 doesn't match it in detail but I still find it satisfactory, although this could be due to the different software I'm using on each machine. The IR dust removal is great with no appreciable loss in detail (doesn't work for B&W films though).

I didn't get the V700 for 35mm though, I recently acquired a TLR and look forward to getting my first roll of 120 developed and then see how the scanner performs.

Matt Charlton

17-02-2008, 21:01

In regards to SCSI - I can help there.

It stands for Small Computer Systems Interface.

You need a SCSI card for your PC. The reason there are two ports on the back of the scanner is because SCSI connections are done on what you'd call a daisy chain - you chain them all together and then have to terminate the signal on the end of the cable. You'd have a SCSI cable from the SCSI card to your scanners first port and then have a terminator (a small SCSI connector with nothing on the end).

SCSI is old school - the first CD-Writers were all SCSI and its still widely used in servers although SATA is starting to take over on the cheaper systems. You'll have to have a hunt around for the SCSI adapter card you need, try ebay.

joxby

17-02-2008, 22:00

I didn't get the V700 for 35mm though, I recently acquired a TLR and look forward to getting my first roll of 120 developed and then see how the scanner performs.

I look forward to seeing them;)
I think you can get away with dodgy scans on b/w, except for any sharpness issues, its the slides they don't do justice to.

In regards to SCSI - I can help there.

Thanks Matt, to cut a long and torteous story short, thats exactly where I'm with it, I need a card, found one on ebay, PCworld/Maplins dont stock scsi cards anymore, they just want to sell you ink cartridges at disgracefull prices, the spotty herbert I asked didn't even know what an scsi card was:shake:
I'll only have one scsi device in this daisy chain, do I need to terminate it, there won't be an id issue.
Also....the cable thats obviously been used before is a 25 pin sub D or something at both ends, theres a 25 pin socket on the back of the scanner, but the card may have a 50 pin sub D socket, if thats the case....err...:bonk: adapter ???

jebus what utter crap this retro socket rubbish is...usb:love:

zeroeseight

18-02-2008, 02:10

I look forward to seeing them;)
I think you can get away with dodgy scans on b/w, except for any sharpness issues, its the slides they don't do justice to.

That's something you reminded me off, I also need to finish my first roll of slides and see how they scan.

Matt Charlton

18-02-2008, 08:17

I'll only have one scsi device in this daisy chain, do I need to terminate it, there won't be an id issue.
Also....the cable thats obviously been used before is a 25 pin sub D or something at both ends, theres a 25 pin socket on the back of the scanner, but the card may have a 50 pin sub D socket, if thats the case....err...:bonk: adapter ???

jebus what utter crap this retro socket rubbish is...usb:love:

I'm pretty sure that you still needed to terminate it to tell the SCSI Bus that it had reached the end. The SCSI card itself has the ID of 7 (usually) so the card and the scanner will be two ID's. (I think - its been a while since I've done much with SCSI other than tell Dell what I want in the new boxes).

I'm pretty sure you can get a cable with 50pin on the one end and 25 pin on the other. See what you get first and see if it works without termination.

joxby

20-02-2008, 23:19

ah, I checked what card was originally shipped with this scanner, adaptec AHA-2940AU, got one from ebay and I thought I was laughing, the photo of the card appeared to show a socket pretty close to a 25 pin....I was wrong, its similar in length but I'm guessing its a 50 pin high density socket.
I'm loath to fit this card until I know theres an adapter.

http://i28.tinypic.com/11gpt9y.jpg

joxby

23-02-2008, 10:58

right, anyone know where I can get a HD50 male to DB25 female adapter or lead ?
CCL = nopers
Maplins = nopers
Non on Ebay except in the states
I just wanna go buy one from a shop, and not mess about with credit cards online or over the phone, postage faffery.

may Gods love rain down on you like snow on a misty mountain side...:)

sprog

23-02-2008, 14:25

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=getProduct&R=1823911

Check homepage for nearest counter service location.

joxby

23-02-2008, 15:46

Thanks man, but thats not it, its not a centronics socket, its a High Density 50 pin to DB25.
It doesn't help when the photos they produce are clearly incorrect, the photo for that lead shows 2 hd50 plugs, theres no db25 or centronics 50 which is what they describe the lead as.

its a mare..:shake:

Sheep

01-03-2008, 15:55

Metro Imaging in London will not let you down top class lab

I looked at Metro prices as they are 10mins from where I work but they are 'not cheap', anyone any other good postage processors for develop and scan?

:)

Chappers

04-03-2008, 10:21

Joxby

Don't know if you're still looking but try this. looks like it might be what you are after.

http://www.blackbox.co.uk/solutions/display.asp?cs=dvh&id=1&doc=fa491&tx=Cable%20Products&sx=SCSI%20Cables

I've use BB in the past and they are very helpful , even when you don't know what you're really after. Had to make some weird SCSI connections in the past and these guys helped.

Credit Card over the phone. Arrives next day if it's in stock

Good luck

joxby

04-03-2008, 21:45

Thanks Chappers, I got one from the US in the end.
I spent most of last night installing re-installing un-installing re-booting downloading drivers for this, drivers for that, winding back drivers, software, misc crappery.
There were a few bangs, a few blue screeners and a cable fatality, but around midnight I scanned my first neg with it.

:banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:

thanks for your help man:thumbs:

zeroeseight

05-03-2008, 10:23

Ooo, congrats. Looking forward to how you find the scanner.

The Big Kahuna

05-03-2008, 18:38

antihero

06-03-2008, 08:10

Thinking seriously about digging out the OM's and investing in a good old Paterson developing tank and a fridge full of Pan F.

Has anyone had experience of scanning negs with a v200 ? I'm only interested in quality, I don't care about the time it takes.

No experience with the V200, but have just got a V500 (first attempt at scanning negs) although I can't see it being too different in terms of quality. Very easy to use and great quality....(Fuji Neopan 400)...

http://www.version8.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/scans/b+w1.jpg

http://www.version8.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/scans/b+w2.jpg