Getting to grips with a NDx10 mallarky

[Les McLean]

I've never had much use for 'normal' neutral density filters, but having seen some wonderful images on this forum using a NDx10 filter, I realised it was worth investing in one of these extreme filters, so I did.

While I am still getting a feel for how it performs, some initial thoughts on it's use.

* It's quite difficult to pre-visualise how the image may look on occasion, and you can end up with large flat areas, for example a 4 minute exposure of a cloudy sky can end up looking completely white/grey/blue, so unless the clouds are very broken (or possibly a sunset/sunrise), the result can look flat.
Similarly with flowing water, a 2 second exposure is a world away from a 2 minute exposure. With say a 2 second exposure, you can usually retain detail in the flow, not so with a 2 minute exposure, so unless you have something to either break the flow, or elements to contrast with the flow, you can end up with just a flat/one colour expanse of water (which happened to me yesterday in a good number of shots) i.e. I was previsualising the effects of a 2 second exposure, not a 2 minute exposure.

* Exposure times are quite flexible, yesterday, I carefully used a hand held meter to get exposure, but I found even on bracketing 30 seconds either way on a 4 minute exposure, the difference in the image was minor, so probably the old rule of thumb (mentally doubling exposure for each F stop or ISO) would suffice.

* I bought the 58mm NDx10 filter to fit my 50mm F1.4 lens, for 2 reasons, firstly I thought by using the filter on a fast lens it would still auto-focus with the filter in place (it does), not realising you couldn't see anything through the viewfinder, so needed to take the filter off to compose each shot anyway.
Secondly, if I'd bought a 77mm filter, to fit a wide angle , my thinking went along these lines-quite often at 17mm lens, you are pushing the envelope in composition (which is fine), and often has good impact, with a NDx10 in place on a 17mm, you are pushing another extreme envelope, unfortunately the end result is rarely the double impact you want but often half the impact (hope this makes sense)

* It's a slow process, and not just the long exposure times, making sure your tripod is locked firm, removing/replacing the filter, setting the timer, composing, auto/manual focusing, checking and double checking settings etc.

* I really do like the filter, and am on a steep learning curve on how to get the best from it, but it's an enjoyable process, and I can't wait to get to the coast to try it out there.

Anyway, two from yesterday, and still very much in the 'finding out' phase.

1) 250 sec @ f16, ISO 100

http://www.lesmclean.co.uk/VK0I2152.jpg

2) 220 sec @f22, ISO 50

http://www.lesmclean.co.uk/VK0I1886.jpg

[james_death]

Thank you for the review very enlightening,
Nice shots look forward to some more

[RobertP]

I've never liked the milky water effect of long exposures. This does take it a bit beyond that though. I don't mind some of the long exposure stuff of the sea and coast that I've seen so I'll look forward to those.

Oh and could you resize the first one down to 800 please ;)

[Didgi Widgi]

oooooooooooooooooo i like them they appear magical more than real.........maybe slap some fairies dancing about

[Dangleman]

I really like those :clap:, especially the second one. They have a deep richness to them without looking over processed. Maybe the first one could be lightened up just a touch though?

[doozie]

Thanks for that Les, very interesting.

Very nice pics, #1 been my fave.:thumbs:

I've just taken delivery of some filters too, I've never used them before so i'm looking forward to trying them out and must say I'm totally mesmerised with the circular polarizing filter, (its like magic:thinking:.)

I got an ND-Grad as well but now think I will purchase an ND for a go at some of those shot of yours.

[TomB]

Welcome to the club :)

Love my 10-stop, although they do seem to be suffering a bit of a backlash in public opinion after seemingly becoming more common.

Is yours a B+W? I recently tested mine and came to the conclusion that it was actually behaving more like a 6-stop and a 10-stop. I'd be interested to see your results if you run any tests to see exactly how many stop's you're losing with yours.

[WanderingMind]

Liking the second shot Les :) I found I could go quite a way over on the exposure time with the six stop, easily 10-20secs on 2m exposure

TomB - how do you mean with the behaviour? I have a six stop and it is exactly six stops, was thinking of getting the ten aswell.

[Hacker]

Stunning photos, the rich colours have an almost dreamlike quality.

Top notch! :thumbs:

[TomB]

TomB - how do you mean with the behaviour? I have a six stop and it is exactly six stops, was thinking of getting the ten aswell.

Well, unless my understanding of basic exposure if way off, my 10-stop is only giving 6 stops.

As I understand it, losing 10 stops means you need to double your non-ND exposure 10 times right? So a 1 second exposure metered without the ND on would need 1024 seconds with the 10-stop fitted. (1,2,4,8,16,32,64,128,256,512,1024).

I ran some test shots in dim conditions where 1 second was needed to get a correct exposure without any filters. Keeping everything else the same, getting an equivalent exposure with the 10-stop fitted took between 60-65 seconds. Which is 6 stops.

Right?!

[WanderingMind]

Well, unless my understanding of basic exposure if way off, my 10-stop is only giving 6 stops.

As I understand it, losing 10 stops means you need to double your non-ND exposure 10 times right? So a 1 second exposure metered without the ND on would need 1024 seconds with the 10-stop fitted. (1,2,4,8,16,32,64,128,256,512,1024).

I ran some test shots in dim conditions where 1 second was needed to get a correct exposure without any filters. Keeping everything else the same, getting an equivalent exposure with the 10-stop fitted took between 60-65 seconds. Which is 6 stops.

Right?!


Yep 60sec is only six stops, have you been sent the wrong one by mistake? :shrug:

[TomB]

Yep 60sec is only six stops, have you been sent the wrong one by mistake? :shrug:

It's definitely labeled as the x10. I'm wondering if there was some sort of factory labeling mixup at some point, or if they're over-rated. Hence being interested in seeing what real-life performance other people are getting.

[WanderingMind]

It's definitely labeled as the x10. I'm wondering if there was some sort of factory labeling mixup at some point, or if they're over-rated. Hence being interested in seeing what real-life performance other people are getting.

That is weird, the first thing I did was to test if mine was exactly six stops and it was bang on, i'm a bit of geek like that :D



Sorry for going off the photo topic Les

[Les McLean]

That is weird, the first thing I did was to test if mine was exactly six stops and it was bang on, i'm a bit of geek like that :D



Sorry for going off the photo topic Les

No problem-it's all relevant :)

I'll need to do a bit of testing, I used a hand held exposure meter to set exposure on the shots I took, and dialled in -10 stops to factor the filter in.

I'll have a closer look.

[TomB]

Thanks Les, that'd be cool. Forgot to say nice shots by the way! :)

[Les McLean]

I tested mine by using my hand held meter (sekonic-L358)

I took a reading without the filter then a reading with the filter flush across the lumisphere head, so taking a light reading directly through the filter.

at f1 ISO200 without 1/1000 sec.....with filter 1 sec

at f1 ISO100 without 1/500 sec......with filter 2 sec

So I reckon it's near enough a x10 ND (unless my maths are way way out ? )

[TomB]

Yup sounds spot-on to me.

Hmm. Tempted to send mine back now.

[dazzajl]

These are a really handy filter to keep in the bag and open up all sorts of possibilities. Perhaps they should be known as the "cotton wool filter". :)

[Byrhtnoth]

Excellent write up and shots, thanks :thumbs:

[Sadlybrokeboy]

Les,

Thanks for the write up - it makes very interesting reading, as I too am interested in acquiring one these.

As for the shots, they're lush - I'm one of those that like the silky water effect.

Thanks for sharing both the shots and the mini review :)

Matt

[woollyback]

Les,

I really like them - if you are still in the "learning" phase I look forward to the images produced when you have mastered it.

Rob

[shiato storm]

Like the shots and the creative opportunities this opens up. i got one of these recently and, after a quick ponder realise I need to bash out a quick excel sheet just to aid a quick convert to '10 stops more' from initial light readings... I was out having a play the other day and although the light wasn't great - and falling a little - 8mins came out pretty freakin' dark still :bang:

[gibbo]

Brilliant shots..... Fantastic ...... wow :woot:
and IF this is your
`Finding Out Phase`
I cannot wait for one of your better ones :D

[shiato storm]

right just a quick hack...can someone confirm these work out!
http://www.lightoverwater.co.uk/ND10.jpg

numbers in seconds, i.e original exposure value to 10 stop time

[TomB]

Yup they sound right to me (assuming you;re getting the full 10 stops, unlike me!).

[shiato storm]

cool, yeah, will have a play and see what how many stops mine really is...!

[HIMUPNORTH]

I have one of these babies and have used it to reasonably good effect. There is a Scottish tog on Flickr that does some great coastal shots with over 4 minute exposures that defy description so worth your investigations Les. Already delivering for you I would say. :thumbs:

[busterboy]

A magical shot that second one Les..:)

Both excellent but that second is amazing.:clap:

[shiato storm]

had a play with mine and yep, seems to be a 10 stop not 6 or something like that...

[milou]

I'm a huge fan of the 10 stop at 17mm on a 17-40 and as you say, after a while you get a feel for the exposure that's needed. You're also right about the waterfall shots - I find that the use of the filter has to bring something extra to the image. The Canon timed remote is also indispensable - just dial in the exposure and twiddle the thumbs for 400 seconds.

[EdinburghGary]

Amazing. How much are these ND's?

[TomB]

Amazing. How much are these ND's?

Warehouse Express sell them for between about £28-60 depending on size. Look for B+W ND threaded filters, they're the ones coded ND-110 (3.0).

[EdinburghGary]

Warehouse Express sell them for between about £28-60 depending on size. Look for B+W ND threaded filters, they're the ones coded ND-110 (3.0).

Thanks Tom, will keep an eye open and try and pick one up. I wonder if jessops have them....

Gary.

[EdinburghGary]

My friend wants this lens, is this the correct one?:
http://www.pcwb.com/catalogue/item/V0010895?cidp=Froogle

[Les McLean]

Amazing. How much are these ND's?


Mine was £25 for the 58mm version (from fotosense http://www.fotosense.co.uk/ )