View Full Version : Airshow Lens?
I'm looking at several lenses mainly for airshows/fly-pasts etc, but need some advice as to which to go for. I'm mainly interested in Canon L lenses (for my 400D).
So far I have these in mind:
EF 100-400 f/4.5-5.6 L IS
EF 300 f/4 L IS
EF 400 f/5.6 L
I have a 1.4x extender, so this could be used with either of the primes.
What's your advice in terms of IQ, AF speed, lens speed?
StewartR
04-04-2008, 12:40
I'm looking at several lenses mainly for airshows/fly-pasts etc, but need some advice as to which to go for. I'm mainly interested in Canon L lenses (for my 400D).
So far I have these in mind:
EF 100-400 f/4.5-5.6 L IS
EF 300 f/4 L IS
EF 400 f/5.6 L
I have a 1.4x extender, so this could be used with either of the primes.
What's your advice in terms of IQ, AF speed, lens speed?If you use the Extender with the 100-400 or the 400/5.6, you won't get autofocus - not ideal for fly-pasts, I would suggest. You're OK with the 300 and a 1.4x Extender, though.
Of the three, the 400 prime is the sharpest and fastest to focus. There was a thread about that lens recently, here (http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=54897).
Thanks Stewart.
If you use the Extender with the 100-400 or the 400/5.6, you won't get autofocus - not ideal for fly-pasts, I would suggest. You're OK with the 300 and a 1.4x Extender, though.
Yeah, if I went for the 400 I'd use it as-is, but if I had the 300 I'd probably use it with the 1.4x. I suppose the benefit of the 300 and the 1.4x is that you are getting effectively two lenses for the price of one. And it has IS.
However, the 400 is sharper and lighter, but doesn't have IS. Tough decision.
From what I've red so far I've pretty much discounted the 100-400. It's down to the 300 or the 400.
There was a thread about that lens recently, here (http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=54897).
Yep, saw that one, thanks.
StewartR
04-04-2008, 16:43
From what I've red so far I've pretty much discounted the 100-400. It's down to the 300 or the 400.I'm not sure whether you're talking about hiring or buying - but if you're thinking of buying then you might want to hire one (or both!) first to make sure you're happy.
OK, I'm a pimp. :D
Why have you discounted the 100-400? its pretty much the staple lens for aishows, sure, primes are fast and the image quality is great, but just at the moment you want to zoom out to get that never to be repeated 3 ship flypast............:bang: Have you shot many airshows in the past? dont make a rash decision, id try and hire a lens for a show first to see how you get on, (stewartR is your man)
Dean:)
I'm new to airshows, but it's the main reason why I took up photography, so I want to get it right. I also work with aircraft, so often get the oppertunity to take photos at airfields etc.
You're right - I definitely need to try them before buying, which I will certainly do. It's a lot of money to invest in a lens that wont get quite as much use as my other lenses.
The 100-400 is definitely more versatile, but I don't like the pump-action zoom. It's probably quicher and more logical than a twist zoom, but it sounds like they are prone to getting crap in them. Not good. However, I may change my mind when I try one...
The 400 is appealing as it is light(er) and has a built in lens hood (as does the 300) and the IQ is supposed to be awesome. But as you say, not as versatile.
Also, the 100-400s seem to have variable IQ i.e. you have to get a good one.
This review was also interesting:
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/lenses/forgotten-400.shtml
Offertonhatter
04-04-2008, 18:20
I know someone who has the 100-400 lens (now mainly used on a 1D Mk3) but has used on their 350D, It is a very fine lens. Also remember the 1.6x crop the 400D gives you, so at the long end you will get over 600mm, so you wont need the converter. I would go for this lens as you might mind it the most flexible. I have the Sigma 170-500mm giving me up to 750mm on the K10D and I have had no problems.
^^Gord^^
04-04-2008, 18:37
There really isn't a correct answer for this. All three lenses will produce the goods, they will just give you different photos. The 100-400 L IS will allow you to shoot pretty much everything but it's not as sharp or as quick as the others. With 300 / 400 primes you will shoot more tightly cropped.
StewartR
04-04-2008, 18:52
The 100-400 is definitely more versatile, but I don't like the pump-action zoom. It's probably quicher and more logical than a twist zoom, but it sounds like they are prone to getting crap in them. Not good. However, I may change my mind when I try one...I bet you do. To my mind the push-pull action is much more useful than a twist ring; it's totally intuitive, it feels almost telepathic, and your left hand never strays from the supporting position under the lens so you can compose, zoom and shoot all in one move.
I've heard several people raise concerns about sucking in dust, but I'm afraid I don't have any hard data. I know a couple of safari regulars who swear by the 100-400 in what must be the dustiest environment most of us will ever encounter, so I figure it can't be too bad. The way I see it, a small amount of dust in the lens isn't going to hurt your pictures, and a lot of dust in the lens means a quick trip to Canon for internal cleaning. No big deal.
On the other hand, it can potentially vulnerable to grit in the zoom mechanism (though I don't know how likely that is). There's another thread here about that.
Also remember the 1.6x crop the 400D gives you, so at the long end you will get over 600mm, so you wont need the converter
This is actually not true, as I have recently learnt. Anyway, I'm not getting in to that one again... ;)
On the other hand, it can potentially vulnerable to grit in the zoom mechanism (though I don't know how likely that is). I know a couple of safari regulars who swear by the 100-400 in what must be the dustiest environment most of us will ever encounter, so I figure it can't be too bad.
Blimey, if it will stand up to that kind of environment then it can't be too bad!
Perhaps the 100-400 isn't such a bad option. At least it would get more use with it being more versatile. Do you think I'd be able to tell the difference in IQ on my 400D, or is it something you'd only notice on a 1D?
On the other hand, it can potentially vulnerable to grit in the zoom mechanism (though I don't know how likely that is). There's another thread here about that.
Yeah, I saw that. It's what put me off :( At least the chap got it repaired for free by Canon. Good result.
malla1962
04-04-2008, 20:56
I dont miss my 100-400 for airshows, give me a prime any day.;)
I dont miss my 100-400 for airshows, give me a prime any day.;)
For what reason, if you don't mind me asking?
Offertonhatter
04-04-2008, 20:59
[QUOTE=edster;601694]This is actually not true, as I have recently learnt. Anyway, I'm not getting in to that one again... ;)
In what way? If a sensor is cropped, you have to convert the focal length of the lens to suit, for example, my 24-70 is reality a 36-105mm F2.8 lens, due to my 1.5x crop. I have used the 24-70 on my film camera, and that is the way it is.
malla1962
04-04-2008, 21:10
For what reason, if you don't mind me asking?I used the 100-400L for about 14 months and it was my main lens during that time and it did a lot of airshows, It was very good if you got the light as f5.6 is very slow, I also found if I lost focus with it it would hunt like hell to get it back, I was allways cleaning my sensor when I had it
as it does pump a lot of air when zooming fast.Most of the shots I took were at the long end so I got a 300f2.8Lis and never looked back. Now im not saying that the 100-400 is not a capable lens and it is the most popular zoom for airshows and does give good results but I just prefer primes now.
malla1962
04-04-2008, 21:12
[QUOTE=edster;601694]This is actually not true, as I have recently learnt. Anyway, I'm not getting in to that one again... ;)
In what way? If a sensor is cropped, you have to convert the focal length of the lens to suit, for example, my 24-70 is reality a 36-105mm F2.8 lens, due to my 1.5x crop. I have used the 24-70 on my film camera, and that is the way it is.A 24-70 is a 24-70 what ever you put it on,you are recording the same image on to a smaller sensor thats all
the only thing that changes is the field of view.
andyjayh
04-04-2008, 22:36
Just to throw in a curve ball and give you another lens to consider, Sigma 120-300 f2.8? Almost as sharp as the primes but with the flexibility of a zoom. Works well with the tc's also so it is a very versatile lens.
Bit heavy though to be pointing into the sky all day :lol:
Just a thought and you can hire this from Stewart :D
[QUOTE=Offertonhatter;601732]A 24-70 is a 24-70 what ever you put it on,you are recording the same image on to a smaller sensor thats all
the only thing that changes is the field of view.
Thanks, beat me to it ;)
The crop factor DOES NOT change the focal length, just the FOV.
Just to throw in a curve ball and give you another lens to consider, Sigma 120-300 f2.8? Almost as sharp as the primes but with the flexibility of a zoom. Works well with the tc's also so it is a very versatile lens.
Bit heavy though to be pointing into the sky all day :lol:
Just a thought and you can hire this from Stewart :D
Thanks Andy, I'll check it out tomorrow...
StewartR
05-04-2008, 07:10
Just to throw in a curve ball and give you another lens to consider, Sigma 120-300 f2.8? Almost as sharp as the primes but with the flexibility of a zoom. Works well with the tc's also so it is a very versatile lens.
Bit heavy though to be pointing into the sky all day :lol:
Just a thought and you can hire this from Stewart :DHmmm. I wouldn't fancy pointing it at the sky all day either - it is much heavier than the other lenses mentioned.
* 1190g => 300mm f/4 L IS
* 1250g => 400mm f/5.6 L
* 1360g => 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6 L IS
* 1410g => 300mm f/4 L IS + 1.4x
* 2600g => 120-300mm f/2.8 APO
If you used a monopod with a Manfrotto MN393 head, the weight wouldn't be an issue, but I have no idea whether or not that would be workable for air shows.
malla1962
05-04-2008, 08:38
Hmmm. I wouldn't fancy pointing it at the sky all day either - it is much heavier than the other lenses mentioned.
* 1190g => 300mm f/4 L IS
* 1250g => 400mm f/5.6 L
* 1360g => 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6 L IS
* 1410g => 300mm f/4 L IS + 1.4x
* 2600g => 120-300mm f/2.8 APO
If you used a monopod with a Manfrotto MN393 head, the weight wouldn't be an issue, but I have no idea whether or not that would be workable for air shows.
I find air shows better to hand hold.
Well, on the subject of IQ, I was using a 100/400 with a 40D taking some albatross shots recently, and they have blown up to A1 without any visible sign of loss of sharpness, I must say I was surprised at the quality.
I think you have to try a couple, but remember if you miss the shot, it doesn't matter how good the IQ is!
I think there's a bit too much emphasis on ultimate IQ, really composition etc is what it's all about and we mustn't get too carried away with the gear and forget about what photography is all about!!
Don't write off the 100/400, and I don't think the push pull is really a problem once you get used to it. As for dust, well I've used a 35/350 in many different parts of the world which has the same action for over 10 years, and never has a problem.
Good luck with your choice, at least you have got a bit of advice and really the answer is that there is no absolute answer!!
George
I'm more than happy with my 100-400mm at airshows. If anything, I want longer!! As said earlier, it's very versatile, especially when you have the Red Arrows flying by, and you want to get them all in the frame. However, I do find that it does suck up the dust, so neds regular cleaning.
digitalfailure
05-04-2008, 14:08
I'm considering the 400 prime for this kind of work, I may even hire one off Stewart before I take the plunge :D
I've tried the 100-400 several times now as that range just seems to make sense for most occasions, but I can't get on with that zoom action :runaway:
Please Canon.....make a twist zoom version !!!
malla1962
05-04-2008, 15:57
I'm considering the 400 prime for this kind of work, I may even hire one off Stewart before I take the plunge :D
I've tried the 100-400 several times now as that range just seems to make sense for most occasions, but I can't get on with that zoom action :runaway:
Please Canon.....make a twist zoom version !!!\i never had a problem with the push pull zoom in fact I found it a lot quicker than a twist zoom.;)
'fraid I agree with Malla, Brian. In fact I like it. But suppose I've been using it for years so I'm used to it.
digitalfailure
05-04-2008, 17:34
I dare say I could get used to in after a while, the last time I borrowed one I spent more time trying to get the tension right :)
I've just been down to my local shop asking for a "good" price on the 400 5.6....although he didn't have it stock today he's going to mail me tomorrow :D
never needed more than 300mm at an airshow, so i would go 100-400mm as a prime could mean you miss out on pictures cos you can't zoom you can be very close to stuff at shows these days
"I dare say I could get used to in after a while, the last time I borrowed one I spent more time trying to get the tension right"
I actually don't worry too much about the tension, tend to leave it at the slackest setting so I can quickly move it in and out, but i'd agree this isn't the best feature of the lens.
Before i got the 100-400, i had tha Sigma 135-400 lens, this had a twist zoom, but i only ever used to push, pull the zoom anyway:lol:
Dean:)
the undertaker
07-04-2008, 09:21
if anyone is considering the luuuuvly 400L 5.6 prime, may I suggest you drop Kerso a line, I bought mine from him, it cost me less than the cost price my local shop buy in for, mad? (who I use for lots and like). Quick, efficient and lovely lens, everybodys expectations and requirements are individual.
if anyone is considering the luuuuvly 400L 5.6 prime, may I suggest you drop Kerso a line, I bought mine from him, it cost me less than the cost price my local shop buy in for, mad? (who I use for lots and like). Quick, efficient and lovely lens, everybodys expectations and requirements are individual.
£630 from Kerso as opposed to £650 for the 300L f/4 IS. I think he is doing the 100-400L IS for £790 (£75 cashback on the 100-400L IS).
the undertaker
07-04-2008, 12:22
Like I say, I luvs my 400 prime, even ordered 2x extender off Kerso, just in case????
But I love my prime, quick, easy and reliable.
another vote for the 100-400mm, got mine from kerso and its as sharp as a sharp thingy,
did my first air show with it last year, take a look.
http://lyddairshow.blogspot.com/
digitalfailure
07-04-2008, 17:19
this 400L had better be as good as you lot say......... Or your all for it :bat:
I ordered one last night off kerso, jessops want a grand for it :eek:
When ever the 100-400L IS is mentioned the dust pump issue keeps coming up, mostly without any real evidence.
I owned a 100-400 for four years and the sensor didn't get any more dust than other lens I have.
Check out the end of the 100-400L that attaches to the camera and you'll find it's a sealed moving bit of glass – the same as all other lenses. So, any dust that does get 'pumped' will already be in the mirror/sensor area anyway. The pump effect can also happen with normal twist zooms when you change the focal length quickly.
Don't let this myth affect your buying decision, the 100-400 is probably the best airshow lens.
The question now is how can I get my hands on these lenses so that I can try before buying? None of my local shops (LCE, Jessops) have them in stock with them being specialist L's.
StewartR
08-04-2008, 14:06
The question now is how can I get my hands on these lenses so that I can try before buying? None of my local shops (LCE, Jessops) have them in stock with them being specialist L's.What do you mean by "try"? We have all of them at LensesForHire (http://www.LensesForHire.co.uk) ...
the undertaker
08-04-2008, 15:53
this 400L had better be as good as you lot say......... Or your all for it :bat:
I ordered one last night off kerso, jessops want a grand for it :eek:
A lovely quick, ace lens, like I say, I luvs mine, Kerso's price is just amazing, as usual. Like I said, cheaper than my shop's cost price, You must be lucky cos I wasnt sure if Kerso was still listing it. I'm sure you won't be disappointed. Like an article read the other day, some people really warm to prime lenses, others seem to struggle to accustom to??
Good Luck:clap::wave::woot::woot::thumbs:
What do you mean by "try"?
Take a few shots and take them hoem for further analysis (IQ), get a feel for weight, generally see if the lens is suitable for me. I've done this with all of the lenses I've bought and it's worked so far...
We have all of them at LensesForHire (http://www.LensesForHire.co.uk) ...
Do you do a rate for less than 7 days, say 3 days?
He does a 3 day rate i think, you just need to select it from the drop down list
It is £28 for 3 days.
P.S Stewart do i get commision :)
look here http://www.lensesforhire.co.uk/canon-ef-400mm-f56-l-usm-15-p.asp
look here http://www.lensesforhire.co.uk/canon-ef-400mm-f56-l-usm-15-p.asp
Thanks. Might just go for one of these instead:
http://www.lensesforhire.co.uk/canon-ef-1200mm-f56-l-usm-3-p.asp
:lol: :nuts:
this 400L had better be as good as you lot say......... Or your all for it :bat:
I ordered one last night off kerso, jessops want a grand for it :eek:
How's the 400L digitalfailure? Did you get it yet?
Is the EF 28-300 f3.5-5.6 L IS any good? Seems to get mixed reviews from what I've read so far.
Pros:
Faster (but probably the same at 100mm, compared to the 100-400)
3rd gen IS
Cons:
Heavy
Shorter focal lenth (compared to the 100-400)
pete.rush
10-04-2008, 19:14
I'm looking at several lenses mainly for airshows/fly-pasts etc, but need some advice as to which to go for. I'm mainly interested in Canon L lenses (for my 400D).
So far I have these in mind:
EF 100-400 f/4.5-5.6 L IS
EF 300 f/4 L IS
EF 400 f/5.6 L
I have a 1.4x extender, so this could be used with either of the primes.
What's your advice in terms of IQ, AF speed, lens speed?
edster....what you failed to mention a budget....the canon 100-400mm is a popular lens, and very versitile...if you get a good copy...you can't really go wrong with this lens in good light, yes the primes are sharper and most of the time you will be shooting between 300-400mm, but you do have the advantage of zoom.
Unless you have a 1D body, you lose autofocus with this and the 400mm on a cropped body with a 1.4x TC. There are other lenses out there like the bigma sigma 50-500mm or sigma 100-300mm f4 (great lens) or your into the plus £1000/2000 market like the sigma 120-300mm (monopod) or the canon primes 300mm f2.8 or 400mm f4 DO (handhold), but mega $$$$
Peter
digitalfailure
10-04-2008, 21:35
How's the 400L digitalfailure? Did you get it yet?
Yes, it arrived on Wednesday evening :)
You'll have to make do with 1st impressions, because thats all I have
The lens is actually quite light...it feels a tad lighter than the sigma 70-200 f2.8 that it shares a bag with.
The build is superb as you'd expect from an L series product. The fixed hood isn't actually fixed in the basic sense of the word which surprised me a little bit, it slides forward and twists to lock it.
Focus is quick and accurate as long as your not expecting it to go from the closest focus point to infinity, but even then with it's USM it's not slow.
In true Df fashion I've taken 1 shot with it so far and that was hand held , it went straight into the minitrekker where it'll stay until the weekend :D
I need to get hold of another tripod mounting plate for it tomorrow, 400mm really shows you how steady you are :eek:
edster....what you failed to mention a budget....
Hi Peter,
My budget is around £800 - I can't really stretch any further than that - all though I wish I could! ;) The 400L f4 DO looks very nice indeed!
Still can't decide whether to get a zoom or a prime. All of my other lenses are zooms (except the nifty), so another prime would be nice, but maybe a zoom is the better option for what I want it for...
Yes, it arrived on Wednesday evening :)
it went straight into the minitrekker where it'll stay until the weekend :D
400mm really shows you how steady you are :eek:
Excellent. Let us know how you get on with it, in particular hand-held shots.
pete.rush
11-04-2008, 07:25
edster if you budget is around the £800 mark, then yes you could just about stretch for a 100-400mm from kerso (UK) or URGalaxy (HK) on eBay, both have some good recommendations. If your not sure about buying off eBay, then you could try warehouseexpress and maybe the sigma 100-300mm f4, this is a great lens, sharp, f4 throughout the range (on the downside is no IS, but for airshows and sport you don't use this anyway) and you could also include a 1.4x TC in the budget with this lens.
Edster, you won't get a 28-300 for under about £1250, even from Ian Kerr (kerso) who by the way is used by a lot of us, is very reliable unless he's ill/on holiday!,so it's out of your buget, unfortunately.
I am interested in anyone's thoughts on this lens, and will be starting a thread in a week or so.
edster if you budget is around the £800 mark, then yes you could just about stretch for a 100-400mm from kerso (UK)
Ian's price for the 100-400L is £790, plus there is £75 cashback at the moment, so well within budget. I've bought most of my lenses from him...
I read that sigma 100-300mm f4 is quite heavy (big factor for me), plus I'd rather have the option of IS whether I use it or not as I might do some wildlife photography with this lens at some point.
Edster, you won't get a 28-300 for under about £1250, even from Ian Kerr (kerso) who by the way is used by a lot of us, is very reliable unless he's ill/on holiday!,so it's out of your buget, unfortunately.
I am interested in anyone's thoughts on this lens, and will be starting a thread in a week or so.
Thanks, I haven't looked at prices for this lens yet. I also read that it is about 350g heavier than the 100-400L and not as sharp, so that would have alos ruled it out...
StewartR
11-04-2008, 10:56
Sigma 100-300mm : 1440g
Canon 100-400mm : 1380g
Canon 28-300mm : 1670g
You won't notice the difference between the first two, but the 28-300 does feel noticeably chunkier.
You won't notice the difference between the first two, but the 28-300 does feel noticeably chunkier.
Thanks Stuart.
Well, I've changed my mind again and I think I'm going to go for the 100-400L. Given my ability It's probably best that I use a zoom for airshows this season and see how I get on. If I'm feeling flush next year I'll try the 300L f/4.
Has anyone ever had any probs with the 100-400L in wet/damp weather? Is it actually classed as being weather sealed as per the other L lenses? This is my only worry about it now (given how unpredictable the weather is these days!).
digitalfailure
15-04-2008, 19:47
Not all L series lenses are weather proof, I wouldn't have thought the 100-400 L is one of the weather proof ones either, water will get into it via the slide zoom and also from memory there is no "O" ring at the mount to seal against the body.
After my first outing with a long prime......a zoom is an easier option :D
Great prices!
I also looked at the 100-400 for airshows but decided on a 2 (3) lens solution. 70-200 f2.8L IS, 300 f4L IS and I add a 1.4x converter if I need the reach.
Works well. The 100-400 is a great lens though and I don't think anyone would be disappointed if they bought it as it is extremely versatile at an airshow. However I also agree with a poster above who stated it does need decent light. Cloudy days (we get them a lot here in Scotland)! means much lower light and therefore high ISO may be required when using lenses with an f5.6 max aperture
Not all L series lenses are weather proof, I wouldn't have thought the 100-400 L is one of the weather proof ones either, water will get into it via the slide zoom and also from memory there is no "O" ring at the mount to seal against the body.
After my first outing with a long prime......a zoom is an easier option :D
Ok, thought as much. The zoom was what tempted me back to this lens. I think I'll stick with it until I'm more adept, then see if I'd benefit from a prime...
Great prices!
I also looked at the 100-400 for airshows but decided on a 2 (3) lens solution. 70-200 f2.8L IS, 300 f4L IS and I add a 1.4x converter if I need the reach.
Works well. The 100-400 is a great lens though and I don't think anyone would be disappointed if they bought it as it is extremely versatile at an airshow. However I also agree with a poster above who stated it does need decent light. Cloudy days (we get them a lot here in Scotland)! means much lower light and therefore high ISO may be required when using lenses with an f5.6 max aperture
Yeah, the speed of the lens was a put off, but as you say, I can up the ISO on a cloudy day. Not ideal, but an option. Liking the backup plan with the 70-200L f/2.8. Hmmm, maybe I'll sell my 70-200 F/4 and get an f/2.8...
Decent choice as you have a great fast telephoto that acts like a 98-280 f4 IS with the 1.4x and if you have the 300f4L IS you get a 420mm f5.6 IS....
Means chanhing lenses a bit more although with 2 bodies I don't have that problem,.
The 100-400L I ordered arrived on Friday - and it hasn't stoped raining since! :-( The images that I've taken so far though I'm quite impressed with. The 'trombone' action of the lense is a lot better than I expected, and for airshows will be really useful. Looks like this lens needs a decent amount of light though. The weight of it isn't as bad as I expected either (makes all my other lenses feel like feathers!
Overall I'm really pleased with it so far, so thanks for everyones advice :thumbs:
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