View Full Version : B+W 10 Stop ND
Snake Man
23-06-2008, 12:36
Looking for a 77mm 10 stop ND screw filter. Only found one place so far and that's Robert White @ £65 + VAT. Anyone know of anywhere cheaper?
Have you tried Warehouseexpress?
http://www.warehouseexpress.com/category/basecategory.aspx?cat03=3072
Snake Man
23-06-2008, 13:44
^^^ Yeah, it's out of stock and has been for quite a while. Might give them a ring though - more likely to get them in if they know someone is waiting.
Yup, sorry about that ... have you looked at the alternatives "heliopan" ?
http://www.teamworkphoto.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=79_237
Snake Man
23-06-2008, 18:28
Yup, sorry about that ... have you looked at the alternatives "heliopan" ?
http://www.teamworkphoto.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=79_237
I wanted to stick to one the main brands, B+W or Hoya, as I've used Kood in the past and the quality wasn't good, so I steer clear of unknown brands.
But... funny thing. I went back onto the warehouse site and the filter was showing as in stock so I snapped it up.
Good for you :), which spefic one did you end up with? I seem to find too many options that gets me confused :shrug:
As for heliopan, they are supposed to be just as good as B+W, while Kood is at the other end of the "food-chain"
Snake Man
23-06-2008, 18:53
Went for the B+W 77mm ND-110. Filter factor of 1000x!
Messiah Khan
24-06-2008, 10:10
Went for the B+W 77mm ND-110. Filter factor of 1000x!
Its a good filter (Ive got one.):thumbs: As for quality brands, all my filters are B&W, but apparently Heliopan and Singh-Ray are equally as good. Ps. Have you got a remote shutter, as you'll need one for the lenght of exposures you'll be getting with that 10 stop ND. :)
Just a quicky involving maths!
A "1000x" filter reduces the incoming light to 1/1000th of it's original power.
Exposure values work in "stops" of light, which as you may know are exponential. Double the light = +1 to the EV.
Therefore we can use logarithms to work backwards. We want to do log_2, but most calculators have either a log_e or a log_10 button. To do log_2(x), we can do log(x)/log(2)
log(8)/log(2) = 3, so NDx8 takes 3 stops of light.
log(1000)/log(2) = 10, so NDx1000 takes away 10 stops of light.
Not meaning to teach anyone to suck eggs, but I've spoken to quite a few people recently who thought that NDx8 blocked 8 stops of light, or just worked out the relationship by testing it with their meter. It also helps if your in camera meter isn't accurate with the ND filter on. Just take the reading with it off, then apply the filter and set the exposure manually.
PD_BARBS
24-06-2008, 10:45
Just a quicky involving maths!
A "1000x" filter reduces the incoming light to 1/1000th of it's original power.
Exposure values work in "stops" of light, which as you may know are exponential. Double the light = +1 to the EV.
Therefore we can use logarithms to work backwards. We want to do log_2, but most calculators have either a log_e or a log_10 button. To do log_2(x), we can do log(x)/log(2)
log(8)/log(2) = 3, so NDx8 takes 3 stops of light.
log(1000)/log(2) = 10, so NDx1000 takes away 10 stops of light.
Not meaning to teach anyone to suck eggs, but I've spoken to quite a few people recently who thought that NDx8 blocked 8 stops of light, or just worked out the relationship by testing it with their meter. It also helps if your in camera meter isn't accurate with the ND filter on. Just take the reading with it off, then apply the filter and set the exposure manually.
Great post, thanks for this, I was totally clueless as to what is required.
Snake Man
24-06-2008, 10:50
Ps. Have you got a remote shutter, as you'll need one for the lenght of exposures you'll be getting with that 10 stop ND. :)
Yep. Ordered one at the same time:thumbs:
Just take the reading with it off, then apply the filter and set the exposure manually.
That is exactly what I was planning on doing. I'm sure there will be some trial and error at first but hopefully I will get the hang of it soon enough.
Snake Man
24-06-2008, 11:04
Grrr. Just had an email from warehouse saying the filter is actually out of stock. Hopefully won't have to wait too long.
Just a quicky involving maths!
A "1000x" filter reduces the incoming light to 1/1000th of it's original power.
Exposure values work in "stops" of light, which as you may know are exponential. Double the light = +1 to the EV.
Therefore we can use logarithms to work backwards. We want to do log_2, but most calculators have either a log_e or a log_10 button. To do log_2(x), we can do log(x)/log(2)
log(8)/log(2) = 3, so NDx8 takes 3 stops of light.
log(1000)/log(2) = 10, so NDx1000 takes away 10 stops of light.
Not meaning to teach anyone to suck eggs, but I've spoken to quite a few people recently who thought that NDx8 blocked 8 stops of light, or just worked out the relationship by testing it with their meter. It also helps if your in camera meter isn't accurate with the ND filter on. Just take the reading with it off, then apply the filter and set the exposure manually.
This is great :thumbs:, I always love it when someone jumps in and explains the science behind all this art! It sure adds a lot. Thank you so much for taking the time and effort to explain this.
......
Just take the reading with it off, then apply the filter and set the exposure manually.
Why would you do this? Would this not yield a darkened photo? Where-as most would use an ND to get "creamy-water" effect?!?
I hve always been tempted at one of these filters. Investing in lenses at the moment.
Why would you do this? Would this not yield a darkened photo? Where-as most would use an ND to get "creamy-water" effect?!?
I meant it more along the lines of setting the exposure and manually compensating for the affect of the ND filter.
Along the lines of:
Camera meter suggests 1/60 seconds at f/16 at ISO100 (EV15). Your ND filter is 10 stops, so you can calculate that you need 30 seconds at f/16 at ISO100 (EV5) to have the same exposure.
After a while you'll start to work it out in your head quite quickly, but you can always use the knowledge that a "click" on your dial is either 1, 1/2 or 1/3 stops, depending on how you have your camera set up.
At EV5, your camera meter will probably cope quite well, but I know that my D300 won't meter accurately below EV0 or EV2 for spot metering. That's basically at night in the countryside, or exposures of over 2 seconds at f/2. I just tend to manually meter very set-up shots like this.
OK, that sounds logical .. thanks for the clarification :)
Messiah Khan
25-06-2008, 12:40
Grrr. Just had an email from warehouse saying the filter is actually out of stock. Hopefully won't have to wait too long.
Probably about a month im afraid. I think most of these filters are ordered directly from B&W/Shneider. I ordered mine for Jessops and it took a month to arrive.
Snake Man
28-06-2008, 10:58
WooHoo. It arrived today. Was definitely not expecting that. Off to buy a stop watch in a bit as I've only got a generic cable release.
Snake Man
28-06-2008, 14:57
Just a quick snap shot with it. Was a bit too bright for a very long exposure.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3174/2617716049_826fea705e_o.jpg
1DMARKII
20-08-2008, 14:06
Just in case anyone is interested:
Robert White does not have the 77mm in stock - E.T.A was 6-8 weeks.
I have found some on ebay from Germany.
Cost is £73 shipped.
Link (German) http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140257866356
Did not have any problems following the engrish checkout system :)
Fingers crossed :)
Aufwidersen :D
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