View Full Version : My new business website
digitalmaniac
14-09-2008, 18:41
Its not actually live yet-but genarally finished-so this is a link to the design server and you wont find it at its url yet.
It might have a few wee faults-with a tiny bit to add but nothing special.
What do you think
http://www.photopia-school-photography.co.uk/index.php
The text in the box on the right hand side extends out of the box, I am using Safari.
digitalmaniac
14-09-2008, 18:48
The text in the box on the right hand side extends out of the box, I am using Safari.
Thanks for that-ill get my designer onto it. Did you like the design and stuff though?
Thanks for that-ill get my designer onto it. Did you like the design and stuff though?
Sorry, yes otherwise it looks good, good luck !
That is a VERY original layout and perfect for your purpose!
It loads well, and in this instance I think the 'enter site' page is wholly appropriate.
You must be very happy with that :)
Nice one,
Neil
digitalmaniac
14-09-2008, 18:53
That is a VERY original layout and perfect for your purpose!
It loads well, and in this instance I think the 'enter site' page is wholly appropriate.
You must be very happy with that :)
Nice one,
Neil
Yes thankyou-took a great deal of thought-my daughter helped with concept-I am well happy and hope the customers like it too.:woot:
Badger UK
14-09-2008, 19:20
Good looking site that. It worked very well for me.
How do you get to the part of the site that customers will order from? Will the customers pay for the photos on the site or through the school?
digitalmaniac
14-09-2008, 19:25
Good looking site that. It worked very well for me.
How do you get to the part of the site that customers will order from? Will the customers pay for the photos on the site or through the school?
You click on your pictures badger and they can order online or from the proofcard at school
Badger UK
14-09-2008, 19:27
You click on your pictures badger and they can order online or from the proofcard at school
Excellent.
Will each school have a url that they log on to for their photos and look through for photos of their own child?
digitalmaniac
14-09-2008, 19:30
Excellent.
Will each school have a url that they log on to for their photos and look through for photos of their own child?
No when you click on your pictures it goesto my lab site and they put in their school and their individual proofcard number and then order whatever they want for free delivery back to the school within a given time -then pay postage after a while
Badger UK
14-09-2008, 19:32
I've just had a look at your other website and I see that there is a log in facility. I imagine that your customers will really like to be able to log in and look at their images. I really like that. A good marketing tool.
digitalmaniac
14-09-2008, 19:34
Thanks badger-yes. Just have to get it paid for now lol-well the remainder and i can let it go live.
You have some nice ideas there:thumbs:.
Personally, I don't like music of any sort and always rush to turn it off-but maybe that is just me...
I did find an extra apostrophe in the second paragraph of the nursery section-to do with the "parent's" choice.
digitalmaniac
14-09-2008, 20:58
It is only music on the landing page though. I feel it adds a certain atmosphere to the stage scene and works well and i chose the music at great length of searching.
But I think to the audience it is inteded for-teachers will find it interesting.
I like the site but one thing I notice and is the lack of contact options and details of where your company is based etc. The 1st thing I and many others do is check to see if a company site lists an address and telephone number (edit- I see your address on the form images but its not obvious) overall I like the design, it fits the bill. (in my limited opinion :) ) Not keen on the entry page either for a business site.
Fire your designer :)
http://www.vanilladays.com/images/Fullscreen-20080914-232043.jpg
Tables, iframes, issues scrolling, bad compatability, splash page, a second splash page, music, etc. Why are the kids floating? You've got a splash page that leads you into another splash page. They serve no purpose other than to show you can do pretty animations. People want to get right to the content. Imagine if you walked into a store, only to have to wait, then shown a movie and then lead to the real store. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. Its why if you look at most major commercial websites they don't do any of this.
digitalmaniac
14-09-2008, 22:38
Fire your designer :)
http://www.vanilladays.com/images/Fullscreen-20080914-232043.jpg
Tables, iframes, issues scrolling, bad compatability, splash page, a second splash page, music, etc. Why are the kids floating? You've got a splash page that leads you into another splash page. They serve no purpose other than to show you can do pretty animations. People want to get right to the content. Imagine if you walked into a store, only to have to wait, then shown a movie and then lead to the real store. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. Its why if you look at most major commercial websites they don't do any of this.
Think we have already established it doesnt work on safari hamster.
In my opinion many have said it works well-the landing page has a menu which then offers content.
Why have we got the subjects floating-*** it is a fun idea instead of having static content.
My web designers are one of the largest in the uk-not mentioning any names because its not important-but anyway-you dont like it thats fine-many more do and I love it. Im not sure what you mean with issues scrolling-well maybe in safari not on my screen in firefox.
Always has to be one doesnt there.
Think we have already established it doesnt work on safari hamster.
In my opinion many have said it works well-the landing page has a menu which then offers content.
Hamster? You could go straight to the "home" page which has the menu and offers content. Right now its enter, pick page and then you get content. One of the biggest companies but still uses tables, iframes, no real thought to SEO, and can't design cross browser. PC World are a big company too, they're still rubbish at what they do.
Always has to be one doesnt there.
Yup. Ask around, I try to do my best to be that one.
digitalmaniac
14-09-2008, 22:49
Hamster? You could go straight to the "home" page which has the menu and offers content. Right now its enter, pick page and then you get content. One of the biggest companies but still uses tables, iframes, no real thought to SEO, and can't design cross browser. PC World are a big company too, they're still rubbish at what they do.
Well seo hasnt been done yet as it isnt live so isnt important yet. as for the other things you say i dont know im not a web designer-but it works ok for me and safari having a massive market share of say 3%-im sure it wont hurt-even though having told them im sure it will be sorted out.
The choice of the splash page was mine and mine alone-I designed it-they built it. Its about creating a company image not just blasting them with info.IMHO and thats all that counts really.
SEO hasn't been done, you're right there. Using tables and iframes isn't the best way to do SEO. SEO is done from the ground up using XHTML and CSS. Separate content from code so search engines can read the content better. I'm not sure who at Pom Design told you they were one of the top companies in the UK but thats just marketing nonsense. Oh and btw, the current number of internet users is around 1,463,632,361. So 3% of that is 43,908,970. Ignoring 43 million people, yer thats nothing :)
I get the same text issue as Pete does only in chrome.
Over a megagabyte for the splash page. Does it matter? Yes, I think so.
The pages don't validate: http://validator.w3.org/ -- This doesn't mean the pages won't work as intended, but it does reflect on the care of the designer.
I find the text to be too full of superlatives. See: http://www.useit.com/alertbox/9710a.html
Good luck with your venture!
I get the same text issue as Pete does only in chrome.
That'll be because its based on the same engine. Makes you think too. I imagine Chrome will be popular as its a Google product and they usually are.
I imagine chrome will grow to be one of the major players simple because google is behind it.
Deja vu, this thread is heading the same way as the DM's previous thread on a similar topic. In the former thread, the range of services offered included weddings and portraits as I remember. A lot of people provided a lot of advice and not a lot changed on the web site.
It was my view then, that this is a poor way to improve a web site. Asking thousands of experts to give expert advice in series, which it has to be on a forum, is doomed to failure. The only way to succeed is to get a small number of experts (no more than six) in a small room and stay in the room until they all agree what is the best way forward.
A quick scan of this site shows the text to contain errors, the structure to be awkward, the content to include needless repetitions, the screens to be too long, the images not to be strong enough and the marketing proposition to be confused. DF can fix all of these should he wish, I just think asking this forum won't help in the long run. It didn't last time.
richmond
15-09-2008, 06:43
I like it, and I'm sure many others will do too. However I have to agree with those that warn against seeking advise on an open forum.
Wishing you luck on your venture. :)
digitalmaniac
15-09-2008, 07:02
I like it, and I'm sure many others will do too. However I have to agree with those that warn against seeking advise on an open forum.
Wishing you luck on your venture. :)
simple as-didnt ask for advice did i-was just showing it to people.
Superlatives-what. It is intended for uk use-so 45 million as you say isnt an issue is it.
RH taking advice from others when building one myself was different-this is a site built by a designer which i and countless others think looks great-if you all want to take it the same route as the other thread well-then your all a bit sad imho.
It is a leading design within the school photography world and thats all that matters to me.
make it a slanging match if you want-I dont believe you lot sometimes:bonk:
simple as-didnt ask for advice did i-was just showing it to people.
Superlatives-what. It is intended for uk use-so 45 million as you say isnt an issue is it.
RH taking advice from others when building one myself was different-this is a site built by a designer which i and countless others think looks great-if you all want to take it the same route as the other thread well-then your all a bit sad imho.
It is a leading design within the school photography world and thats all that matters to me.
make it a slanging match if you want-I dont believe you lot sometimes:bonk:
I am neither making it a slanging match nor expressing views on behalf of others. I understand that there are a number of forums, on this site, where the content is not subject to review. A Mod was kind enough to move one of my threads, which was for information, when an unwanted review arrived. If you don't want comment, then ask the Mods to move the thread and that will stop the reviews.
digitalmaniac
15-09-2008, 08:01
I am happy for people to say dont like it or dont think it loads well or any normal stuff rh-but I dont need a run down of oh thats bad webmaking protocol-or flash doesnt work on some systems and the purile defacing in general that happens on these forums.
Its boring when i know full well this website is a good website imho and advice isnt going to change the fact i paid good money to build it and am not just gona bin it because a few people say otherwise.
I have been a surfer for years now and generally unless a site takes 5 minutes to load i couldnt care less about some of the things people say are wrong with them.
Nitpicking-like most of the threads now on this forum.
It was a bit slow to load initially but otherwise fine until I got to the your pictures page and links when I scroll both sideways (as about a third of the content shows) and up and down in the scroll boxes and scroll the whole page to see it. Might be better to condense the information into the boxes so side to side scrolling is not required - not everyone has very large screens :)
Edit: I see there has been quite a lot of conversation going on while I have been looking at your site and posting
ShawWellPete
15-09-2008, 08:05
Hi, I opened it at work, and for the few seconds I looked at it it looked quite neat on ie6. However the music attracted attention and there was no obvious mute button so I closed it.
Good luck with your venture
digitalmaniac
15-09-2008, 08:07
Hi, I opened it at work, and for the few seconds I looked at it it looked quite neat on ie6. However the music attracted attention and there was no obvious mute button so I switched it off.
Yes i will get them to add a mute button-only thing is really it will be headteachers looking for the site and i dont suppose anyone will tell them off for playing music whilst at work:)
digitalmaniac
15-09-2008, 08:10
It was a bit slow to load initially but otherwise fine until I got to the your pictures page and links when I scroll both sideways (as about a third of the content shows) and up and down in the scroll boxes and scroll the whole page to see it. Might be better to condense the information into the boxes so side to side scrolling is not required - not everyone has very large screens :)
Edit: I see there has been quite a lot of conversation going on while I have been looking at your site and posting
Sorry did you mean the ordering of pictures page-yes its about all we can do with it at the moment-sorry. I might get them to make it full page eventually though.
When you say slow to load-were you on firefox as ive noticed this a bit too.
I am happy for people to say dont like it or dont think it loads well or any normal stuff rh-but I dont need a run down of oh thats bad webmaking protocol-or flash doesnt work on some systems and the purile defacing in general that happens on these forums.
Its boring when i know full well this website is a good website imho and advice isnt going to change the fact i paid good money to build it and am not just gona bin it because a few people say otherwise.
I have been a surfer for years now and generally unless a site takes 5 minutes to load i couldnt care less about some of the things people say are wrong with them.
Nitpicking-like most of the threads now on this forum.
I am unconcerned about the merits of the technology that the web site uses. If you believe that the technology works the way you want it to for your business, then that is fine.
My concerns are about the messages, structure, content and correctness of the text. I can spot 70, or so, areas where the text is either incorrect or poorly expressed. If you put the site's text into Word (or a word processor of your choice) then it will indicate a number of errors that might have been corrected prior to launching the site. I am not a teacher of English, but I am passionate about the use of the language.
You've spent good money to build the web site: I believe that you need to spend some more money on getting your marketing messages across in the strongest way possible. I would like you to succeed in this venture; you must give yourself the best possible chance of doing so. You're not quite there yet, in my view.
I think the bottom line is Do you like it? and Does it generate business? if the answer to the second question is no then you'll know you need to go back to the drawing board.
digitalmaniac
15-09-2008, 08:53
I think the bottom line is Do you like it? and Does it generate business? if the answer to the second question is no then you'll know you need to go back to the drawing board.
good point Karen-ill let you know when it goes live.
Martin
Yes i love it btw
digitalmaniac
15-09-2008, 08:56
I am unconcerned about the merits of the technology that the web site uses. If you believe that the technology works the way you want it to for your business, then that is fine.
My concerns are about the messages, structure, content and correctness of the text. I can spot 70, or so, areas where the text is either incorrect or poorly expressed. If you put the site's text into Word (or a word processor of your choice) then it will indicate a number of errors that might have been corrected prior to launching the site. I am not a teacher of English, but I am passionate about the use of the language.
You've spent good money to build the web site: I believe that you need to spend some more money on getting your marketing messages across in the strongest way possible. I would like you to succeed in this venture; you must give yourself the best possible chance of doing so. You're not quite there yet, in my view.
It was written in word RH and we had this before I think. Im no english lit major-but I dont think i am illiterate by any stretch of the imagination.
I appreciate your concerns but i have seen some sites with written word being so much worse.
As i said tinkering can be done with time to make it 100%
Moving to the correct forum :)
digitalmaniac
15-09-2008, 09:03
Moving to the correct forum :)
Sorry marcel didnt realise there was a website forum-must learn to read more lol
... the purile defacing in general that happens on these forums.
What do you think
First post. You asked. I used to be a professional web designer and I've been building websites since 1995. So don't get yer knickers in a twist when someone posts what they actually think :p
It was written in word RH and we had this before I think. Im no english lit major-but I dont think i am illiterate by any stretch of the imagination.
I appreciate your concerns but i have seen some sites with written word being so much worse.
As i said tinkering can be done with time to make it 100%
That's fine. I think that it's not a question of whether there are better or worse sites out there. My view is that the question is "How will an educated audience (Head Teachers) view this text?" My advice is spend money on getting a professional marketeer to make it better. You spent money on a professional web site developer, shame to sink the ship for six pennyworth of tar.
I've offered some advice that I think would help. It's your business and you know what you want to do to make it a success. You (and probably every one else) will be glad to read that I've written all I'm going to write on the topic.
alexkidd
15-09-2008, 09:53
if they're one of the largest in the uk they shouldn't be making school boy errors.
i'd agree it's a bit scrappy, the design is reasonably good but you're wasting a whole load of space at the top next to your logo and the custom scroll bars and frames and all other manner of stuff could do with being looked at.
it's not boring when people tell you it's got bad points, it must just be a kick in the teeth to know you've paid for it and you have asked people what they think :/
or was it "please tell me my new site is ace" ?
apart from the bits that annoy me regarding web standards etc i'd say the only thing that puts me off is the background colour, i'd switch to something else if most of the website is also going to go with the dark terracotta stylee :)
digitalmaniac
15-09-2008, 10:01
First post. You asked. I used to be a professional web designer and I've been building websites since 1995. So don't get yer knickers in a twist when someone posts what they actually think :p
Yes ok mate but i was asking a general do you like it -not asking all web designers tofind fault in the semantics of how one is built:thinking:
Im sure you can see my point-as i can yours. There are loads of designers out there and choosing one is hard at the best of times-so i chose one which is found on every web search-which showed sites I liked in their portfolio and didnt want to charge me £3000 just to make a basic website.
Rh-your thoughts are taken in but i mean other websites ran by market leaders in this business-school photography. Iif you wanted to discuss how something is written it would be suggested to actually make it snappy-punchy-cut out the waffle. this too would be seen as bad prose in the eyes of a tutor.
Maybe I will employ the services of some pro writer one day-but if you had any idea how much this has cost me already before ive earnt a red cent-you'll appreciate i will save that until later.
A business evolves and grows-it doesn't wake up one morning as a fully grown oak tree.:naughty:
digitalmaniac
15-09-2008, 10:07
if they're one of the largest in the uk they shouldn't be making school boy errors.
i'd agree it's a bit scrappy, the design is reasonably good but you're wasting a whole load of space at the top next to your logo and the custom scroll bars and frames and all other manner of stuff could do with being looked at.
it's not boring when people tell you it's got bad points, it must just be a kick in the teeth to know you've paid for it and you have asked people what they think :/
or was it "please tell me my new site is ace" ?
apart from the bits that annoy me regarding web standards etc i'd say the only thing that puts me off is the background colour, i'd switch to something else if most of the website is also going to go with the dark terracotta stylee :)
No-its a colour to go with the surrounds of a stage. What's more ive said it before I didnt want a web designers viewpoint on it-but the general public. Who wouldnt have a single idea about wether it was cs3 friendly or any of the other boring-Yes to us non designers-stuff.
Its not a kick in the teeth really as I dont think its shabby or any other things said.
viewpoints are taken in-but that doesnt mean everyone feels that way about it.
Far from it from some posts on here and other forums.
You cant please all of the people all of the time.
Yes ok mate but i was asking a general do you like it -not asking all web designers tofind fault in the semantics of how one is built:thinking:
That wasn't clear :p
digitalmaniac
15-09-2008, 10:15
That wasn't clear :p
Well to be honest i didn't think for one minute a photography forum would be full of web designers so it wasn't part of my thoughts when posting.:clap:
Hi DigitalManiac
The site design is nice and does fit with the theme of your business.
But I do have to agree with some of the other opinions expressed that the use of iFrames, Tables and bad cross compatibility are very poor and old hat for a Web design company that "are one of the largest in the uk" and the fact that it doesn't validate is just unacceptable from a "professional" web design company.
As Pete has pointed out, Websites which are coded using XHTML and CSS are much better crawled by web search engines and Proper Validated sites rank higher then sites that are poorly coded (not designed) - Surely for a Business website, your going to what your site ranked as high as possible?
I have also attached a screenshot of the Your Pictures iFrame part - I think that just lets down the nice and clean design you have with the site - http://www.jorobplace.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/image1.gif
Please don't see what people have offered as a slur on you - you asked for Feed back on your Site, expect to have some Good and Bad comments (all good as long as the bad also offers some construction).
Good luck with your venture
Rob :thumbs:
digitalmaniac
15-09-2008, 10:22
This thing you say about validating-doesnt the site have to be live on the web to be validated from what i read.
The your pictures page-the only other thing i could have done is have a full page link and it then takes them away from my site to the labs site which i didnt want.
digitalmaniac
15-09-2008, 10:29
It is live on the web.
Is it? I thought it was just a design server.
Maybe its my fault to some degree-I asked them to build it in flash-does this mean it then wouldnt be done in css. The way i see it a search engine would struggle to pick it up because it has no text on first page anyway-but then with my other websites it seems topick other pages up anyway and lists them instead.
I will mention it to them if it should validate as it is!
Is it? I thought it was just a design server.
Maybe its my fault to some degree-I asked them to build it in flash-does this mean it then wouldnt be done in css. The way i see it a search engine would struggle to pick it up because it has no text on first page anyway-but then with my other websites it seems topick other pages up anyway and lists them instead.
I will mention it to them if it should validate as it is!
We can all see it. Its live on the web. It hasn't been made your home page yet though, as in from accessible from your url but its on the web. Flash is now searchable by Google but tbh I doubt your designers even know that. According to them they write a 35 page document on how you should do your own SEO. Thats hilarious because its their job to build your site from the ground up with SEO in mind.
Our report comprises a 35 page document detailing exactly what work you need to carry out to boost your presence on all the major search engines and can be invaluable if you are serious about getting noticed in this highly competitive marketplace.
Or you can pay them £499 to get your site submitted to search engines. Ooooh what a complex task.
digitalmaniac
15-09-2008, 10:37
We can all see it. Its live on the web. It hasn't been made your home page yet though, as in from accessible from your url but its on the web. Flash is now searchable by Google but tbh I doubt your designers even know that. According to them they write a 35 page document on how you should do your own SEO. Thats hilarious because its their job to build your site from the ground up with SEO in mind.
Or you can pay them £499 to get your site submitted to search engines. Ooooh what a complex task.
Sorry pete-I think youll find thats a detailed report-they are supposed to do the basic seo.
Also why doesnt it validate-worked for me.
http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=www.photopia-school-photography.co.uk&charset=(detect+automatically)&doctype=Inline&group=0
Also-yes for the complete moron they may pay to have search engine listed-but ive been doing this long enough to get a site noticed-each of my own i have built even with basic site software have come up on google page 1.
This one will be there too I hasten to think as there are not many sites with this keyword-which makes it easier.
Sorry pete-I think youll find thats a detailed report-they are supposed to do the basic seo.
I think their detailed report is going to be a huge truck of horse doodie :) By basic SEO, metatags aren't really that important these days. Its just something people know about and thus think is SEO. Its so easy to put in what you want people to search for and essentially trick search engines. They're a lot cleverer these days and read your content to know what your site is about. Which brings us back to XHTML & CSS.
Also why doesnt it validate-worked for me.
http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=www.photopia-school-photography.co.uk&charset=(detect+automatically)&doctype=Inline&group=0
Did you look at that url? Its a blank page. Of course it'll validate. Put in an actual page of your site and it breaks (http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.photopia-school-photography.co.uk%2Fhome.php&charset=%28detect+automatically%29&doctype=Inline&group=0&user-agent=W3C_Validator%2F1.591).
Also-yes for the complete moron they may pay to have search engine listed-but ive been doing this long enough to get a site noticed-each of my own i have built even with basic site software have come up on google page 1.
Just to point out, a hyphen doesn't do the job of a comma. Sorry but that's just been bugging me :p
This one will be there too I hasten to think as there are not many sites with this keyword-which makes it easier.
Which keyword? There are over 7 million sites for "school photography" and that is what you're competing against.
digitalmaniac
15-09-2008, 10:55
well i will ask them about the validation.
alexkidd
15-09-2008, 14:09
i think people are just trying to say that if they'd have bought that site they'd expect it to be up to date with standards and accessible in the same way you'd expect someone you've paid to take photos to have them in focus.
digitalmaniac
15-09-2008, 14:11
i think people are just trying to say that if they'd have bought that site they'd expect it to be up to date with standards and accessible in the same way you'd expect someone you've paid to take photos to have them in focus.
But then we dont all know the difference until its pointed out-to me it looks professional and works good for me. Apart from the obvious things like contact which i already knew about and stuff.
alexkidd
15-09-2008, 14:18
which is great but it should work well for everybody as if i buy a business website i'm wanting everyone to access it rather than just myself.
digitalmaniac
15-09-2008, 14:25
which is great but it should work well for everybody as if i buy a business website i'm wanting everyone to access it rather than just myself.
And I will endeavour to rectify any problems with other browsers
It seems the OP has taken a dim view of having his site critiqued. The most important and most neglected aspect of creating a website is testing it. Just the same as any software. It doesn't matter how professional it looks because after the first visit, the looks are abstract. Your visitors become blind to the actual graphical design. Most of them anyway.
By posting here you've been given free use of a team of testers; to berate their feedback isn't wise at all and will cost you either money, business or both. Swallow your pride and accept that no one is trying to take the **** out of you.
You want this site tested by as wide a demographic as possible because people of all types will work in schools and are your chosen market. Some will be experienced web users, some won't. Some will be of a highly irritable nature and won't like some of the things that people have pointed out to you on here. Some will be short sighted. If you don't take all of these things into account then you're neglecting your business. You appear to not care about 3% of safari users but if someone offered you a 3% increase in turnover would you reject it? Add to that 3% the number of visitors you just turned away because they use screan readers. Then add the number you justed turned away because they don't like the music, the extra clicks, the fact that the internal *******ized scroll bar doesn't work with a mouse wheel and anything else I never saw within the first 10 posts, and my 2 minutes on your site and you just turned away a decent amount of potential visitors/customers.
If I seem arsey then, don't take it that way. I'm just presenting you with an alternative view that a bit of a *******ing down the phone to your designers, who should have advised you on all this, might actually turn out to greatly reduce the chances of you turning away potential custom.
They just built you a shop with a doorway that a lot of people can't fit through.
digitalmaniac
15-09-2008, 15:14
It seems the OP has taken a dim view of having his site critiqued. The most important and most neglected aspect of creating a website is testing it. Just the same as any software. It doesn't matter how professional it looks because after the first visit, the looks are abstract. Your visitors become blind to the actual graphical design. Most of them anyway.
By posting here you've been given free use of a team of testers; to berate their feedback isn't wise at all and will cost you either money, business or both. Swallow your pride and accept that no one is trying to take the **** out of you.
You want this site tested by as wide a demographic as possible because people of all types will work in schools and are your chosen market. Some will be experienced web users, some won't. Some will be of a highly irritable nature and won't like some of the things that people have pointed out to you on here. Some will be short sighted. If you don't take all of these things into account then you're neglecting your business. You appear to not care about 3% of safari users but if someone offered you a 3% increase in turnover would you reject it? Add to that 3% the number of visitors you just turned away because they use screan readers. Then add the number you justed turned away because they don't like the music, the extra clicks, the fact that the internal *******ized scroll bar doesn't work with a mouse wheel and anything else I never saw within the first 10 posts, and my 2 minutes on your site and you just turned away a decent amount of potential visitors/customers.
If I seem arsey then, don't take it that way. I'm just presenting you with an alternative view that a bit of a *******ing down the phone to your designers, who should have advised you on all this, might actually turn out to greatly reduce the chances of you turning away potential custom.
They just built you a shop with a doorway that a lot of people can't fit through.
Not at all-but to get a true representation of what people do or dont like would take at least say 10000 people to view it and give their say on it.
I cant base an expensive website design choice too much on a handful of peoples advice-only use it to try and decide what to do.
Safari should be fixed hopefully. I didnt mean i don't care about it-just there isnt 45million people in this country looking at it is what I meant.
Wording is very important if you ask me when offering crit.
Starting it out with sack your web designer is imho not being constructive and is just being bolshy-which if im not mistaken is supposed to be against forum rules. As it doesnt help unless I want to loose the money ive spent on it and makes one feel that he wasted his time trying to get it done pro in the first place.
Im not being bolshy-just stating facts as i see it.
Starting it out with sack your web designer is imho not being constructive and is just being bolshy-which if im not mistaken is supposed to be against forum rules.
I'm not being bolshy either when I say that there was a god damn smiley face at the end of my sentence.
Not at all-but to get a true representation of what people do or dont like would take at least say 10000 people to view it and give their say on it.
I cant base an expensive website design choice too much on a handful of peoples advice-only use it to try and decide what to do.
Safari should be fixed hopefully. I didnt mean i don't care about it-just there isnt 45million people in this country looking at it is what I meant.
Wording is very important if you ask me when offering crit.
Starting it out with sack your web designer is imho not being constructive and is just being bolshy-which if im not mistaken is supposed to be against forum rules. As it doesnt help unless I want to loose the money ive spent on it and makes one feel that he wasted his time trying to get it done pro in the first place.
Im not being bolshy-just stating facts as i see it.
Yeah that's fair enough mate and reading back I can see my tone was a bit negative and could have made anyone see their arse a bit. You certainly can't please all the people all the time when you create a website unless you have the resources to really put a lot of hands and eyes on it, and yeah sack the web designer isn't very constructive, even if it was said as a joke.
It does have a bit of truth behind it though; they do deserve a bit of an ear-bashing because as professionals they should have advised you of all the pros and cons of your choices. That is their responsibility. I personally, would expect some kind of compensory action on their part, as a goodwill gesture if nothing else. Their model should be built around happy customers as every web designer has a lot of competition.
I don't know about anyone else's background on here but I've built more sites than there are pages on this thread, admittedly never for a photographer before but that vast majority have been commercial and for high profile clients in competitive markets.
I wasn't just trying to **** on your chips and there are genuine points that need to be taken from this thread and fed back to your deisgner because they aren't representing you in every way they'll be claiming to on your final invoice.
digitalmaniac
15-09-2008, 15:31
I don't intend to neglect my business. Usually stats can show if people are bouncing or not. if they do then i will address some issues.
that is my preffered way of judging if a site meets the customers needs-doesn't that make sense.
digitalmaniac
15-09-2008, 15:33
Yeah that's fair enough mate and reading back I can see my tone was a bit negative and could have made anyone see their arse a bit. You certainly can't please all the people all the time when you create a website unless you have the resources to really put a lot of hands and eyes on it, and yeah sack the web designer isn't very constructive, even if it was said as a joke.
It does have a bit of truth behind it though; they do deserve a bit of an ear-bashing because as professionals they should have advised you of all the pros and cons of your choices. That is their responsibility. I personally, would expect some kind of compensory action on their part, as a goodwill gesture if nothing else. Their model should be built around happy customers as every web designer has a lot of competition.
I don't know about anyone else's background on here but I've built more sites than there are pages on this thread, admittedly never for a photographer before but that vast majority have been commercial and for high profile clients in competitive markets.
I wasn't just trying to **** on your chips and there are genuine points that need to be taken from this thread and fed back to your deisgner because they aren't representing you in every way they'll be claiming to on your final invoice.
I will slowly grind their balls-thanks to some of the advice on here. But I have found from experience-just being an assy customer often backfires on you. I don't want to burn my bridges.
alexkidd
15-09-2008, 15:42
have you paid in full for the unfinished site and did you give them a brief/and or sign any documentation regarding what work will be done and when and to what standard?
if not they're probably not as big a company as you think.
I don't intend to neglect my business. Usually stats can show if people are bouncing or not. if they do then i will address some issues.
that is my preffered way of judging if a site meets the customers needs-doesn't that make sense.
Yeah stats can show bounce rates but they're much more helpful when there are clearly defined goals are targets within the sites, such as how many go through and make an actual purchase.
What they don't tell you though is how many were so far down the line of ordering that they finished anyway but didn't enjoy the experience so wouldn't use it again.
I see your point about not burning the bridges but the rollicking only really needs to come after you ask them politely why they never made things clear and if they aren't forthcoming with options for you. You don't need to jump all over them if they're going to make amends for their mistakes voluntarily.
There's something confusing me. The site is photopia so why, in the "your pictures" bit, does it have another website address? Are you using an existing shopping cart or something?
digitalmaniac
15-09-2008, 19:02
There's something confusing me. The site is photopia so why, in the "your pictures" bit, does it have another website address? Are you using an existing shopping cart or something?
No-its the lab who handle the orders-its easier to get it through their online system rather than administration twice.
digitalmaniac
15-09-2008, 21:13
have you paid in full for the unfinished site and did you give them a brief/and or sign any documentation regarding what work will be done and when and to what standard?
if not they're probably not as big a company as you think.
Payed for half up front-half on completion and there was a brief form.
digitalmaniac
15-09-2008, 21:39
Form? Did you meet them?
No didnt meet them they are in somerset. But they worked to my brief.
digitalmaniac
25-09-2008, 02:46
Website is now css and w3c compliant on all pages and there is a shut off for the music and seo is done. Also the scroll bar now works on a tog wheel and doesnt jump. The reference to flash-only the first page is done in flash and all other pages are done in xhtml and a sitemap has been rendered with google so they should index ok.:bonk:
A few non confrontational words with designer seemed to work.
BenMottram
25-09-2008, 06:34
"... an 8 digit pass number which will make it impossible..."
I feel your confidence is misplaced.
"How many pictures are you ordering from?"
English would be nice, but worse "Microsoft VBScript runtime error '800a0006'
Overflow: 'cint'
/includes/pageContent.asp, line 38 "
When a random 8 digit number is entered in the non centred form.
I know that bit is the store for the people doing your prints, but it appears on your site and will be associated with you.
and finally a comment on something you said earlier in the thread - "to me it looks professional and works good for me"
The point is that it the website doesn't really have to please you does it? It has to please your potential customers.
If your customers are head teachers of primary schools, then I suspect they will cringe at all the primary school errors. Your choice, as always.
I won't bother with anything else, because we have had this conversation before.
B.
digitalmaniac
25-09-2008, 07:09
"... an 8 digit pass number which will make it impossible..."
I feel your confidence is misplaced.
"How many pictures are you ordering from?"
English would be nice, but worse "Microsoft VBScript runtime error '800a0006'
Overflow: 'cint'
/includes/pageContent.asp, line 38 "
When a random 8 digit number is entered in the non centred form.
I know that bit is the store for the people doing your prints, but it appears on your site and will be associated with you.
and finally a comment on something you said earlier in the thread - "to me it looks professional and works good for me"
The point is that it the website doesn't really have to please you does it? It has to please your potential customers.
If your customers are head teachers of primary schools, then I suspect they will cringe at all the primary school errors. Your choice, as always.
I won't bother with anything else, because we have had this conversation before.
B.
Primary school errors-what. Im sick and tired of idiots like you passing judgment like im a complete idiot or something. What are you going on about entering a random 8 digit number in the non centred form. you have to be given a number not just enter whatever you want and it says order from how many prints and then goes into another screen.
What is more why have you gone back to previous posts to use against me-when i have posted fresh-what a pratt.
seems this forum is filling up with people who just want to have a digg at others in a non constructive way-which isn't being policed by the mods imho and i think i will be leaving the forums-as i suspect many others will. there ahs been many threads on this recently about people not being happy with people snubbing and all sorts else.
Well I don't need to be made to feel like crap everytime i come to what used to be my faivourite forum.
Cheers guys.
Sorry just one more thing confidence misplaced with the 8 digit number. the lottery has only 6 and it is near on impossible to get that number right-let alone with another 2 digits. but why the hell am i explaining myself to you anyway.
Raymond Lin
25-09-2008, 18:51
The bell noise when you hover over the icons on the home page needs to go.
Music needs to go, even if you can turn it off, it's best that its not there. If your customers is a school then the chances are they are looking at it in the school office, you don't want music.
The your pictures section is far too big for the little box, having to scroll sideways is a pain and put customers off.
In your pictures, the first landing page is Ordering, surely Home should be the landing page.
In products and services, those photos/scan of your leaflets are far too small and low res, all pixelated and hard to see. Rather than a scan, you need to design something similar but for web use.
I feel that 99% of the problems comes from that original design of the tiny box, get rid of that and have a normal screen size and the site will be better for it and your customer will enjoy it more.
oh, your text are FAR too small, its smaller than the text used on the forums.
no need to go name calling is there. the man raised issues with the ordering form, dont call him an idiot.
Primary school errors-what. Im sick and tired of idiots like you passing judgment like im a complete idiot or something. What are you going on about entering a random 8 digit number in the non centred form. you have to be given a number not just enter whatever you want and it says order from how many prints and then goes into another screen.
What is more why have you gone back to previous posts to use against me-when i have posted fresh-what a pratt.
seems this forum is filling up with people who just want to have a digg at others in a non constructive way-which isn't being policed by the mods imho and i think i will be leaving the forums-as i suspect many others will. there ahs been many threads on this recently about people not being happy with people snubbing and all sorts else.
Well I don't need to be made to feel like crap everytime i come to what used to be my faivourite forum.
Cheers guys.
Sorry just one more thing confidence misplaced with the 8 digit number. the lottery has only 6 and it is near on impossible to get that number right-let alone with another 2 digits. but why the hell am i explaining myself to you anyway.
Well, the forum is policed and whenever the rules are broken they will be enforced. Ironically, the only post in this thread which is probably breaking the rules is the one I've quoted, yours.
There's a lot of opinion in this thread, some of it you like, some of it you don't. Granted, it's not all worded in the most constructive manner, but it has been given in an effort to allow you to discuss certain aspects of the design with your designers in order to improve the sites overall performance. I'd consider that to be generally positive and useful.
If you don't like the comments you receive, ignore them, or even better, put the poster on your ignore list. That's what it's there for.
digitalmaniac
25-09-2008, 21:34
Well, the forum is policed and whenever the rules are broken they will be enforced. Ironically, the only post in this thread which is probably breaking the rules is the one I've quoted, yours.
There's a lot of opinion in this thread, some of it you like, some of it you don't. Granted, it's not all worded in the most constructive manner, but it has been given in an effort to allow you to discuss certain aspects of the design with your designers in order to improve the sites overall performance. I'd consider that to be generally positive and useful.
If you don't like the comments you receive, ignore them, or even better, put the poster on your ignore list. That's what it's there for.
Im sorry but I have never posted one answer to a thread that wasn't worded in a way that was fair and not meant to sound like i was berrating someone in a primary school playground( To which i mean when reading others threads)To which many others do not care whatsoever about others feelings. It is MY SITE and I will be the last one to finally decide what goes in it. i have listened to many things said on this forum and decided to change it to suit and thank those people for their input.
But i will not please everyone all the time that is for sure. No business plan works 100% from the off-tweaks and prods will be inevitable to make a company image exactly what you want it to be in the end.
Comments saying it has primary school errors imho is an insult to my person. I may not be shakespear but i know i can write well enough to not be told I have an iq of an 8 year old:cuckoo:
There may still be issues as some of you see it-possibly small ones i can still see too, but it is a theme i have worked hard to achieve and will stick to it until i feel it doesnt work. yes I have to please my customer but also have to be true to myself in the process.
Noone even answered to this thread for days until i showed a few changes and straight away the onslaught starts again.
This site is now typical of this with photos too. Someone posts some pretty shoddy work, through no fault than they are new to it and people go well done wonderful. others post brilliant work and get either no replies or berrated.
This seems true of my site. It is a professional site imho. There has been some design limitations perhaps. But funnily enough the pro togs on other forums;especially within the school photography area have welcomed it with open arms.
I stand by my choice to leave the forum as it is filled with petty people. Which Im sure most of you don't care about and i look for no sympathy.
Sorry Matty and marcel-this place is getting no better than DP Review.:bonk:
Im sorry but I have never posted one answer to a thread that wasn't worded in a way that was fair and not meant to sound like i was berrating someone in a primary school playground( To which i mean when reading others threads)To which many others do not care whatsoever about others feelings. It is MY SITE and I will be the last one to finally decide what goes in it. i have listened to many things said on this forum and decided to change it to suit and thank those people for their input.
But i will not please everyone all the time that is for sure. No business plan works 100% from the off-tweaks and prods will be inevitable to make a company image exactly what you want it to be in the end.
Comments saying it has primary school errors imho is an insult to my person. I may not be shakespear but i know i can write well enough to not be told I have an iq of an 8 year old:cuckoo:
There may still be issues as some of you see it-possibly small ones i can still see too, but it is a theme i have worked hard to achieve and will stick to it until i feel it doesnt work. yes I have to please my customer but also have to be true to myself in the process.
Noone even answered to this thread for days until i showed a few changes and straight away the onslaught starts again.
This site is now typical of this with photos too. Someone posts some pretty shoddy work, through no fault than they are new to it and people go well done wonderful. others post brilliant work and get either no replies or berrated.
This seems true of my site. It is a professional site imho. There has been some design limitations perhaps. But funnily enough the pro togs on other forums;especially within the school photography area have welcomed it with open arms.
I stand by my choice to leave the forum as it is filled with petty people. Which Im sure most of you don't care about and i look for no sympathy.
Sorry Matty and marcel-this place is getting no better than DP Review.:bonk:
DP Review??
nice
Deja vu. We had a longer version of this debate at the end of June when the topic was a site for selling weddings, glamour and school photography and not just school photography. Many of the suggestions from that thread went unheeded at the time and were not incorporated into the latest rendition.
Raymond Lin
26-09-2008, 13:39
Im sorry but I have never posted one answer to a thread that wasn't worded in a way that was fair and not meant to sound like i was berrating someone in a primary school playground( To which i mean when reading others threads)To which many others do not care whatsoever about others feelings. It is MY SITE and I will be the last one to finally decide what goes in it. i have listened to many things said on this forum and decided to change it to suit and thank those people for their input.
But i will not please everyone all the time that is for sure. No business plan works 100% from the off-tweaks and prods will be inevitable to make a company image exactly what you want it to be in the end.
Comments saying it has primary school errors imho is an insult to my person. I may not be shakespear but i know i can write well enough to not be told I have an iq of an 8 year old:cuckoo:
There may still be issues as some of you see it-possibly small ones i can still see too, but it is a theme i have worked hard to achieve and will stick to it until i feel it doesnt work. yes I have to please my customer but also have to be true to myself in the process.
Noone even answered to this thread for days until i showed a few changes and straight away the onslaught starts again.
This site is now typical of this with photos too. Someone posts some pretty shoddy work, through no fault than they are new to it and people go well done wonderful. others post brilliant work and get either no replies or berrated.
This seems true of my site. It is a professional site imho. There has been some design limitations perhaps. But funnily enough the pro togs on other forums;especially within the school photography area have welcomed it with open arms.
I stand by my choice to leave the forum as it is filled with petty people. Which Im sure most of you don't care about and i look for no sympathy.
Sorry Matty and marcel-this place is getting no better than DP Review.:bonk:
The people who voice opinion here could be and is the very same people you are trying to attract. In a way it is more important that people here give you a thumbs up as they are more computer savvy which it has shown already the bugs your site had. Not to mention they would have seen more sites than your average school teacher and knows what works and what doesn't.
If the majority of people here says the same thing about the same problems regarding your site, wouldn't you agree that there is a very high chance that your potential client would too? You don't have to agree or happy with it, the fact that it's your site really shouldn't come into it, and you design it how you want should not 100% dictate how it should be, you are not the client.
What do you think
Why ask for people's views when you don't want to hear them?
Getting good genuine critical feedback from an assortment of people for free is a great help to anyone's business.
Throwing your toys out of the pram because you don't want to hear some of the replies is probably not the smartest of moves. You never know when someone's assistance might be really helpful to you but will be unforthcoming due to previous attitudes.
BenMottram
26-09-2008, 16:20
Primary school errors-what
The site was/is littered with errors in coding, errors in style and errors in simple English.
What are you going on about entering a random 8 digit number in the non centred form.
The form is/was not centred on FF3, when displayed on a 1280x1024 screen, so that to see all of the page concerned I have/had to scroll sideways.
you have to be given a number not just enter whatever you want and it says order from how many prints and then goes into another screen.
A random code was used to simulate someone just mistyping their order code.
Validating input is an essential part of forms processing. Never assume what you expect is what you get. Do you know exactly what your orders database does when it gets an unexpected input?
What is more why have you gone back to previous posts to use against me
Everything I posted was from a fresh visit to the site. Nothing was being "used against you". I was commenting on the website.
Well I don't need to be made to feel like crap
All my comments are directed at your website. In my opinion it doesn't/didn't pass muster. You appear to be taking things rather personally.
Sorry just one more thing confidence misplaced with the 8 digit number. the lottery has only 6 and it is near on impossible to get that number right-let alone with another 2 digits.
The lottery costs £1 per guess. Trying to break a website costs a few CPU cycles, and a few milliseconds of elapsed time, per guess. Saying that an 8 digit pass code makes it impossible for someone else to see a particular photo is disingenuous.
but why the hell am i explaining myself to you anyway.
The question works both ways; the answer is, in both cases, "Dunno"
B.
Raymond Lin
26-09-2008, 17:21
I am also lost as to why the site is designed to look like it wants to attract an audience of the age of 10, when clearly the people who are going to be your clients are teachers, principles who are in their 20's, 30's, 40's+.
i shouldnt bother now guys, hes flounced off, possibly never to be seen agaian, with that in mind, closing. if he comes back and wants to update on the site or anything else, i can reopen it.
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