View Full Version : Mono Millie ... V's First Portrait !
Venomator
28-07-2006, 21:18
Hiya all ... my first attempt at a portrait ... and mono at that ... :eek:
This not at all set up ... just an impromptu pose as she pretended to protest at being photographed ...
Mono Millie ... :love:
http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/gallery/data/631/RLG4953_4.jpg
I would like to understand what is right and what is wrong with this and why ... :D
Spare me not guys & gals ... tell it like it is ... :p
I don't know much about portraits so take all this with a pinch of salt.
First impressions are it's really good, great eye contact, natural, unposed. Her face is maybe a tiny bit dark through being in the shadow and the highlight on her elbow is slightly distracting. But good:thumbs:
OOh what a gorgeous little face ... she is lovely!
I agree with the above comments on the arm too.
Have you thought of lightening the whites of her eyes just a touch so as to take the distraction of the highlight on her arm awayand draw you straight to her eyes more.
Just a thought... look forward to what the others have to say too.
Marianne
28-07-2006, 22:05
aww...Millie's are a bit special aren't they?
I love her coy pose and the eye contact but have to agree about it looking a bit on the dark side. A darling little girl!
It's a lovely shot but a little (well a lot actually :)) on the dark side. As others have said it's a shame about the arm, but it's a natural kid's pose.
There's so many ways you could process this shot. I lightened the overall gamma and brightness, then lightened the whites of the eyes selectively. Finally I ran it through a diffusing filter then sharpened the eyes and brows to make them stand out. I think the diffuse high key approach suits the shot, you could go quite a bit lighter if you wanted to.
http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/gallery/data/500/millie2.jpg
Sterling job CT ..... beautiful!!!!
Hope 'Mr Green' thinks so too :thumbs:
Venomator
28-07-2006, 22:23
Wow ... thanks guys 'n gals already ... so much input to cope with (drama kween mop of brow ... :lol:) ... :D
She is a little cutie isn't she ... like her mother a bit of a poser on the sly ... :p
Cedric ... I like some of what you've done and it would be really useful if I could see it, sort of blow by blow to mimic on the original ... I did quite a bit of stuff just messing to get what I posted ... :thinking:
Should really go back and start over with the Neff ... no ... :shrug:
selective doing of stuff sort of blows me away at the moment ... :eek:
Thanks for all your comments (and compliments !) so far peeps ... :thumbs:
Thinking about it Rog, I prefer the Full Monty high key job.
http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/gallery/data/500/millie31.jpg
If you need any help with it just sing out, but do get it framed. :)
Venomator
28-07-2006, 22:48
Hmmm ... I can appreciate what you have done and why ... just not sure if I like the full monty Cedric ... she is quite tanned and darkish skinned ... even if she is a true blonde ... :shrug:
Not sure what her mother will go for either ... another 'true' blonde ... :p
Would like to understand the selective lightening and sharpening thing though CT ... :thumbs:
Venomator
28-07-2006, 22:53
Sterling job CT ..... beautiful!!!!
Hope 'Mr Green' thinks so too :thumbs:
I certainly do Glo ... :lol: ... just not sure if it is a tad too much ... :shrug:
CT has certainly done a better job on her eyes than I could ... :shake:
Practice, practice ... trouble is when her mum sees it she is gonna want a print like, yesterday to frame up and hang ... :eek:
:p
... she is quite tanned and darkish skinned ... even if she is a true blonde ...
So what was wrong with a colour version?
Venomator
28-07-2006, 22:56
So what was wrong with a colour version?
Now you've done it ... hang on here ... :D
Would like to understand the selective lightening and sharpening thing though CT ... :thumbs:
Well you have brushes you can use to paint areas lighter or darker etc, but I find them unpredictable and it's difficult to get an even effect on large areas. I prefer to use freehand masks and it really is a doddle with a bit of practice. To lighten the white of the eye you simply outline the white with the mask tool and then whatever tool or filter you apply it will only be applied within the mask. In this case, I just upped the gamma a little.
You can apply the same technique to any area of a pic, but if you need a soft edge to the effect then you need to feather the mask for a gradual fade. In the case of the eyes, I just drew a circle around the complete eye and brow, then feathered the mask by about 15 pixels, before applying sharpening.
Hope that helps mate. I'll try to post a pic of a freehand mask.
Venomator
28-07-2006, 23:06
Tanned Millie ... :D
http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/gallery/data/631/RLG4953_3.jpg
Freehand mask applied to the white of the eye Rog.
http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/gallery/data/530/mask.jpg
Then you just lighten the area using gamma or brightness. These freehand masks are really powerful tools and you can use them to apply virtually any filter or effect to a specific area. :)
Venomator
28-07-2006, 23:13
I prefer to use freehand masks and it really is a doddle with a bit of practice. To lighten the white of the eye you simply outline the white with the mask tool and then whatever tool or filter you apply it will only be applied with the mask. In this case, I just upped the gamma a little.
I'll try to post a pic of a freehand mask.
Thanks for that CT ... :thumbs:
Now me being a dipstik ... :amstupid: Mask = Lasso tool ... :thinking:
Don't think I'll ever get the appeal of mono :) I can understand the high key if you like the effect or mono to bring out texture in things but this sort of shot l think just looks better in colour. (though it may still need a tweak from the PS wizards)
The lasso tool will sometimes select an area like that if you play with the tolerance level, but on other areas it would never work if there was too much detail. The beauty of the freehand mask is that you draw it by hand anywhere you like. I use PSP and the mask tool allows you to just click around an area - a bit like joining up the dots. Surely CS2 has a similar mask tool?
I don't have CS2 installed at the moment to check for you.
Venomator
28-07-2006, 23:19
Don't think I'll ever get the appeal of mono :) I can understand the high key if you like the effect or mono to bring out texture in things but this sort of shot l think just looks better in colour. (though it may still need a tweak from the PS wizards)
I can see your point Robert ... for me though I do like mono but have not done much since going digi ... :p
Thanks for looking ... and taking the time to comment all the same ... appreciate it much, I do ... ;)
As for Ps wizzes ... Oh no ... not gotta do it all over for the colour one ... :eek:
:lol: :D
:p
Venomator
28-07-2006, 23:21
Surely CS2 has a similar mask tool?
I don't have CS2 installed at the moment to check for you.
I cannot see one yet... but then that means nothing ... imo ... :lol:
Sure there is one just gotta find him ... :D
LOL. The colour version is nice too, but again a bit dark Rog.
http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/gallery/data/530/millie4.jpg
Venomator
28-07-2006, 23:35
LOL. The colour version is nice too, but again a bit dark Rog.
HeHe ... fart oo kwik for me Cedric ... :lol:
I was still looking for me masks ... :p
Thanks for that ... sort out what you did in the a.m. ... :shrug:
Have to wait for tomorrow now ... I'm bushed and off to bobos ... :eek:
minimeeze
29-07-2006, 07:56
What an adorable little girl! The shot is lovely - you have captured the moment perfectly. Out of all of them, I like CT's high key version the best. I guess you either like this stuff or you don't, and I think the portrait suits it rather well!
Venomator
29-07-2006, 08:38
What an adorable little girl! The shot is lovely - you have captured the moment perfectly. Out of all of them, I like CT's high key version the best. I guess you either like this stuff or you don't, and I think the portrait suits it rather well!
Thanks Min ... just like her mother's father then really ... :D
The hi key is growing on me ... but I think some of the character is lost ... still not entirely sure about it ... :p
Keltic Ice Man
29-07-2006, 20:33
V thats an excellent shot - Great eye contact - a kid with a clean nose :) and such a brilliant non pose-pose
As to which I like - well post 21 - CT's version of the colour is my fav but I can see it might be more than 1 pic you print :)
Do tell - how did you take it, what sort of lens, distance etc.
Thanks
Allan
Venomator
29-07-2006, 22:02
Do tell - how did you take it, what sort of lens, distance etc.
Thanks for the kind comments Allan ... :thumbs:
I just pulled the camera as it was from the car to mess about a bit at my Sister's place last Wednesday.
It had the 18 - 200mm fitted and I didn't bother much as my daughter said she (Millie) does not like having her pic done ... work that out ... :lol:
Anyway - it was in an enclosed courtyard, under a clear roofed lean to in shade and ... at 123mm / F5.0 / Fill Flash and Millie was only a few feet away not sure quite how far 8 to 10 maybe ... :shrug:
Hope that is some use ... :thinking:
Thanks again for looking and commenting ... :p
Not sure if this is what you were looking for but have posted a quick mask thingy in case it helps :shrug: .
I will allow you to select only certain areas of an image using your brushes, gradients, paint bucket, etc.
Just take a look at masking in the Photoshop help & it should answer anything I havn't.
Good luck & great photo by the way :thumbs: - you've inspired me to post my "Millie" picture (although my ones a Milly).
Mike.
http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/gallery/data/500/Quick_masking.jpg
Super Picture - Prefer the lighter colour version or Hi-key. Well posted as once again an interesting and informative thread. Would recomment Quick-mask and can be used in "Select" menu and by colour - then view in quick mask.
Venomator
31-07-2006, 16:29
Not sure if this is what you were looking for but have posted a quick mask thingy in case it helps :shrug:
Thanks a lot Mike ... looks like it might be useful ... I shall give it a shot to check it out ... :thumbs: ... appreciate you taking the time to post it ... :thankyou:
Look forward to seeing your Milly at some stage then ... :D
Venomator
31-07-2006, 16:31
Super Picture - Prefer the lighter colour version or Hi-key. Well posted as once again an interesting and informative thread. Would recomment Quick-mask and can be used in "Select" menu and by colour - then view in quick mask.
You are so right Fangman ... only way to learn ... :D
Thank you for your input too ... will have a look at that one as well ... :thumbs:
No problem Venomator, just let me know if theres anything I missed off/any problems.
Have posted my Milly pic in the photo viewing forum (no one has replied yet though so it'll probably be on the second page) Still think this is an awesome pic for your 1st portrait, very nicely done :clap: .
Mike.
Surely CS2 has a similar mask tool?
Think it's the magnetic mask tool.
Venomator
31-07-2006, 22:21
Think it's the magnetic mask tool.
Thanks for your help Dod ... would this be the Magnetic Lasso Tool you mean ... :thinking:
Forbiddenbiker
02-08-2006, 15:58
Can’t offer any much Critique Ven, Lovely shot though.
I do find the full high key version loses some of the detail over the original, although the effect works well with your image. :shrug: I prefer CT's soft colour version overall and your first mono second.
:)
nightfire
05-08-2006, 14:17
Had an attempt at the mono version. Some selective dodging and burning followed by some selective sharpening. Finished of with a curves layer eith a fairly large s curve.
http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/gallery/data/500/RLG4953_41.jpg
Venomator
05-08-2006, 22:46
FB - Thanks for the comments m8 ... appreciated much ... :thumbs:
NightFire - Not a bad re-work ... like it better than some as it has kept more true to the subject ... imo ... thanks ... :p
But the selected bit of the eye you have shown us, couldnt that just be done with the lassoo tool, as a lot of people have asked?
PS...Gorgeous portrait of a gorgeous girl! ;)
But the selected bit of the eye you have shown us, couldnt that just be done with the lassoo tool, as a lot of people have asked?
;)
Yes - the lasso tool would select a clean single tone like the whites of those eyes pretty easily. What it wouldn't select is an area encompassing just the eyes and brows for selective sharpening, which is why I try to get people to use freehand masks, they're the key to being able to do so much more. I simply couldn't do some of the photo restoration stuff I do without freehand masks. :shrug:
oops, sorry for the double post :D
Blast, I should learn to type faster CT :thumbs:
Selection with the lasso, magnetic lasso, etc is very touch & go as it relys upon a direct selection wheras selections via masks can be cusomised more easily & adjusted using precision tools such as the brush & pencil tools as well as larger area tools such as the gradients, pen tools & paint bucket.
That is not to say that selection using the former is not useful, I do use them, for example if I am outlining a selection between a black & white object (or other objects with high contrast differences) I will use the magnetic lasso & then enter quick masking to ensure I get the exact selection I need by adding/subtracting, etc.
One of the main benefits that I find for this technique is being able to correctly & precisely control the amount of feathering/sharpness via the use of feathered or hard edged brushes.
It's all down to personal preference but learning to use of quick masks & incorporating the other tools has vastly improved my workflow & I now find the lasso tools a little clumsy :( (even though I am using a graphics tablet).
If anyone wants any extra advice about quick masking techniques just ask & I'll see what I can do & if enough people ask the same questions, I'll put together a tutorial too (won't be a fancy video one like some of the others here :p but hopefully should cover it).
I understand now..............so you are let off the video tutorial!!! ;)
Venomator
08-08-2006, 02:13
PS...Gorgeous portrait of a gorgeous girl! ;)
Aw ... jeeze thanks Janice ... :notworthy: ... guess she can't help it really ... taking after her mum's father an' all ... :D
Venomator
08-08-2006, 02:28
I understand now..............so you are let off the video tutorial!!! ;)
Well ... I am not so sure ... still ...:amstupid: :amstupid:
I can select an area with lasso ... and this seems like a bit freehand to me ... so I am unclear where CT's 'freehand' bit comes in and what ... precisely such masks are ... :shrug: ... guess I need to do some more reading ... and practising ... :eek:
But thanks all once more for all your kind words and constructive input ... :thanks: ... even if I still don't grasped the concept yet ... :gag:
BTB ... Millie's mum likes all the versions shown ... and thanks you all too ... :thumbs: ... but still prefers her the way she truly is ... :thinking:
Sean_Mcr
13-08-2006, 16:48
I'm not in to the elbow to be honest and her armpit is on show, armpits are not very aesthetic even on a pretty little girl, as she undoubtedly is. The light is quite flat (that can be a problem with fill flash) looking in both b&w and colour. so the light wasn't really good enough to get what you wanted. for a bw Shot to really work you have to have contrasting light. That last tweak on the colour, the whites of her eyes look grey
Flash can't compete with natural light, i can't have more then two shots in my space that was used with flash. It's so important to have the right light to create the right mood for a portrait, on camera flash is just rarely subtle enough to create it
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