Something to think about

dellipher

dellipher

Messages
4,747
Name
Adele
Edit My Images
Yes
Partly tied in with Dee's Real Beauty Project which can be found Here or Here


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What are your views on this image?
If you saw this image in magazine.
A fashion magazine.
A bridal magazine.
What would you think?
Would you hate her for being so skinny?
Look at yourself in the mirror and wish that you could be like that?
Would you suddenly be so envious of her – because “you’ll never look that good in that dress”?

Now this isn’t about looking at the picture for all its technical faults, flaws, this is looking at it as an image an image that depicts everything that society is today.

“A real beauty project” but pick up a magazine today – and how many “real beauties” do you actually see?

With Anorexia rates on the increase – women are still lead to believe that beauty is only in the achievement that you are thin. Because thin equals everything. You don’t see a “fat” pop star – not a “fat” model. Everyone is impeccably groomed and has flawless skin. We wish.

The average woman is a dress size 14.
David Rowlinson, who co-ordinated the survey, [by M&S] said: "Modern women are taller, with bigger frames, larger hips and breasts. There's nothing wrong with being a size 14, it's just the way most women are."

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Because a size 14 is actually what this model is.
Gorgeous and Curvy – she relishes her curves.
Yet wants to be slimmer – to fit in with the society beliefs that to be skinny – means you can have the world at your feet. When really it doesn’t mean that you are going to be anymore.
Many magazines will not print a picture of an untouched model. Even this picture of the model in black and white could be seen as being touched up in some way.
I decided to do this before Dee started her “Real Beauty Project” but having discussed this with Dee – I decided to show this as it goes hand in hand with what she is doing.

So let’s compare the two images.

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If you look at the images side by side – taken from a Curvy Size 14 to what… a size 8? A size 6?
And all this took was 5 minutes in photoshop and the warp tool [ Its also easily do-able with the liqufy tool also] yet if you had viewed the image on the left – as the only image – then you wouldn’t have even possibly known it was as touched up as it was.

And this is what happens these days in magazines – the celebrities that our younger generation try to look up to. There aren’t enough people campaigning for real beauty…or magazines and the media promoting and supporting it.



So here’s the next time you think to “airbrush” an image – just ask – do they really need it?​
 
First thing I did was ignore the text and look at the first photo and I thought she looked quite uncomfortable and a bit stiff in that pose. You duped me with the editing. I wasn't going to comment on the model as it's not the done thing round here but I thought she had a bit of a manly jaw. I'm saying that now as I can see it's been exaggerated in photoshop and not really her (or is it:thinking:)

Just one point to add to all of this as I think the arguments all seem to be coming from one direction at the moment. While being stick thin is not good, being fat is not good either and although none of you are saying it, it can come across as though you're saying 'fat is good' if you're not careful. I see a lot more obese people than I do anorexic and I see obesity as a bigger problem in today's society. We (men included) really need to aim at being healthy rather than whether we look fat or thin.
 
I'm fat - and I dont care


I'm not saying that its a good thing - I'm just stating that its "normal" to be bigger - than the first image - yet the media portrays thats to be "normal" and its not.

re her "manly" jaw - the second picture has had VERY limited work done. So she must have.
 
Its not jealously but i don't like skinny women, i'm a size 14 and proud of it!!!!!!!!!
 
I am a size 14, well top half is anyway, 12 the other half [buying two piece suits is a bloody nuisance], but at 5'2", that makes me fat, though not obese, but I have reached an age where I am not particularly bothered anymore generally, though romping around on a beach in a bikini probably won't feature too highly in my list of things I should be doing these days, but then a natural ability to fry lobster red in even the mildest of sunshine means it never did feature that highly anyway.

Its all about being comfortable in your skin as it were, we can all get self conscious, wish we were slimmer/taller/shorter/fatter/curvier/bigger breasted/more well endowed/prettier/more handsome/etc, [I know I do] but there is little point in being obsessive about it, life is way too short and spending your lunch hour reading Cosmo/OK/Hello/Vogue/the sun and deciding that yet again you are going to diet and achieve Madonna-esque levels of physique and fitness is more often than not a complete waste of mental capacity. Big is also cuddly :D
 
first no too skinny I think second yes beautiful
 
Thats some impressive editing there Del, and Ill admit, you duped me as well. I didnt think the first shot had any work done. How gorgeous is she in real life? A stunning figure and a pair of boobs to die for!!!! :D

Thanks for the links too, we're gonna take over the world :p
 
I think someone has used the liquify tool on me - but the other way round to you here Adele :LOL:

I did think she looked 'stretched' before reading the text, but maybe that's just because I saw her recently and no diet is that fast!!!

Even as a kid I always preferred hour-glass figures but on smaller women, so I have to say I prefer the thinner version here (aside from the stretch bit which looks odd I think)

Should we have a Male version of these recent 'Natural beauty' threads methinks??? After all, moi excepted ;), few of us blokes look like our new 007 do we :shake:

So come on girls, be honest, who'd you rather wake up to :thinking::thinking::thinking:

Craig Daniel from James Bond, or Johnny Vegas from Brook Bond :D

DD
 
macros said:
Its not jealously but i don't like skinny women, i'm a size 14 and proud of it!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...

:clap::clap:

Just Dave said:
size 14 for me, if you got it flaunt it
Click to expand...

Curvier girls have boobs....men seem to like those...lol

Yv said:
I am a size 14, well top half is anyway, 12 the other half [buying two piece suits is a bloody nuisance], but at 5'2", that makes me fat, though not obese, but I have reached an age where I am not particularly bothered anymore generally, though romping around on a beach in a bikini probably won't feature too highly in my list of things I should be doing these days, but then a natural ability to fry lobster red in even the mildest of sunshine means it never did feature that highly anyway.

Its all about being comfortable in your skin as it were, we can all get self conscious, wish we were slimmer/taller/shorter/fatter/curvier/bigger breasted/more well endowed/prettier/more handsome/etc, [I know I do] but there is little point in being obsessive about it, life is way too short and spending your lunch hour reading Cosmo/OK/Hello/Vogue/the sun and deciding that yet again you are going to diet and achieve Madonna-esque levels of physique and fitness is more often than not a complete waste of mental capacity. Big is also cuddly
Click to expand...


:D Good on you Yv! I know what its like, at one point I was a size 14 on bottom, and a size 20 jacket, just to fit my boobs in it! - Now I put a little bit of weight back on and a comfy size 16 on bottom, and whatever fits around the boobs on top! :LOL: But I did used to be a full size 22 - and lost the weight for me.

markf said:
first no too skinny I think second yes beautiful
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What we have to remmeber is this is also about the media exploiting the people who appear in their magazines - rather than naturally skinny people. One of my friends is a natural size 6/8 and she eats like a horse, but she does also get backlash from people that think she is just conforming to the media.

Betty said:
Thats some impressive editing there Del, and Ill admit, you duped me as well. I didnt think the first shot had any work done. How gorgeous is she in real life? A stunning figure and a pair of boobs to die for!!!

Thanks for the links too, we're gonna take over the world :p
Click to expand...


I was origiionally just going to post the first shot - and not bother with the text, get people's views and then just post the other one, and show how much of a big impact 5mins in photoshop has.

Del and Dee on a rampage!

DiddyDave said:
I think someone has used the liquify tool on me - but the other way round to you here Adele lol

I did think she looked 'stretched' before reading the text, but maybe that's just because I saw her recently and no diet is that fast!!!

Even as a kid I always preferred hour-glass figures but on smaller women, so I have to say I prefer the thinner version here (aside from the stretch bit which looks odd I think)

Should we have a Male version of these recent 'Natural beauty' threads methinks??? After all, moi excepted ;), few of us blokes look like our new 007 do we :shake:
Click to expand...


Yeah I think if you were the first person to see this, and I hadnt put any text on, then you would have figured it out first hand - No diet is that fast....Oh Yes DD - you definately look like 007 - infact I think you should take over from Daniel Craig ;)
 
I would only say Daniel Craig because I cant bloody stand Johnny Vegas, his weight has nothing to do with it :D

Come on then DD, join the revolution!!!! :D
 
Holy freaking crap! You look nothing like your avatar!!!!

:D
 
Jayst84 said:
I assume you all realise this works both ways. All this 'real beauty' stuff that's all the rage these days, such as that carp from Dove, can have a pretty negative effect on a lot of naturally smaller / skinny people. Not to mention anorexics, bulimics, etc. I'm sure it just makes them feel heaps better.
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Whilst I agree with you to a point [my OH really struggles to put weight on], isn't it the modern society of 'thin is wonderful' that has created the bulk of those anorexics and bulimics in the first place?

We live in a world where extremes are created out of fear and paranoia, whether that is the obese kids who's parents would prefer they were sat in front of computer game for hours and driven to school rather then risk falling prey to paedophiles, or the glossy magazine images of 'perfect' models that young girls and boys feel they should emulate or risk not being accepted. Either way, I think Del and Betty are trying to make the point that whilst being too far one way or the other is not good health wise, being a happy medium, and not feeling guilty or somehow second rate because of it is absolutely fine.
 
If i had to choose i would say the retouch has a better figure, but do not find either version attractive, i would not try to pick her up in a bar. you can all call me shallow and misogynistic now.

The truth is like ever other person in the world who I find visually attractive is biological more then cultural. Being of European descent, my eyes look for traits that allow for survival and breeding in that climate. this is taller, slender women with lean muscles, middle to small sized breasts, and some shape to their hips. This is what is attractive to most men of my biology, and appears in the fashion magazines targeted and men and women of simalar dissents, or in areas controlled by them. The reason what you see in a fashion magazine is hard to achieve is that these magazines are by nature aspirational, they do not sell you cloths, they sell you a lifestyle, albeit one you will never have.

Also a thin body is a sign of a healthy metabolism, which means more energy, and a longer healthier life. As i am an active person, finding an active mate is important, and most people do not aspire to sit on the couch watch hollyoaks and eat chips, so fashion magazines sell the aspiration of having a healthy active body.

I have not even touched on the social problems caused by obesity, and the accompanying diet, but explained biologically that there is a real beauty, and that is why it is sold in magazines.

of course I am as biased as any one, as I work in fashion, so I don't have a problem with the indrustry
 
Chris Reed said:
If i had to choose i would say the retouch has a better figure, but do not find either version attractive, i would not try to pick her up in a bar. you can all call me shallow and misogynistic now.

The truth is like ever other person in the world who I find visually attractive is biological more then cultural. Being of European descent, my eyes look for traits that allow for survival and breeding in that climate. this is taller, slender women with lean muscles, middle to small sized breasts, and some shape to their hips. This is what is attractive to most men of my biology, and appears in the fashion magazines targeted and men and women of simalar dissents, or in areas controlled by them. The reason what you see in a fashion magazine is hard to achieve is that these magazines are by nature aspirational, they do not sell you cloths, they sell you a lifestyle, albeit one you will never have.

Also a thin body is a sign of a healthy metabolism, which means more energy, and a longer healthier life. As i am an active person, finding an active mate is important, and most people do not aspire to sit on the couch watch hollyoaks and eat chips, so fashion magazines sell the aspiration of having a healthy active body.

I have not even touched on the social problems caused by obesity, and the accompanying diet, but explained biologically that there is a real beauty, and that is why it is sold in magazines.

of course I am as biased as any one, as I work in fashion, so I don't have a problem with the indrustry
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As you work in fashion, your opinions really do not surprise me, and my first thoughts after reading this post, I would unfortunately not be able to air as I would probably be banned from the forum. :D

Being a size 16 - then luckily I would never be attractive to you - I have an active lifestyle also - and have plenty of energy - it doesnt bother me. I'm happy with my curves, and my lumps and bumps, and we should embrace them.

The fashion industry tries to sell us a lifestyle, that not many people can achieve healthily in one way or another - and this then tends to be why rates such as anorexia and bulimia are rising.
"Real Beauty" sold by magazines is debatable. An average woman is a size 14 - that is not huge. Just think back to days gone by - the women were larger, more plump, they had fat, they had hips, the had boobs and they were embraced. They were healthy, they were wanted, and they were loved - and thats where we've come from!
 
misogynistic - isn't that someone with a hatred of women???

So are you a gay chap who hates women?

Or just someone who doesn't fancy either version of THIS woman?

The latter is not a sign of being a misogynist, you just don't fancy her

I also have to disagree with some of your comments, a healthy body is not necessarily a thin one; and especially not the scrawny ones common in fashion

Nor is being overweight necessarily a sign of being a couch potato and unfit (though obesity usually means you aren't able to exercise to a great enough extent to be fit)

All I can add is that I'm glad I'm not a man of 'your biology' - whatever that means :shrug:

DD
 
Misogynistic is just what people often call some one who brings biology into a debate about beauty, not that i think I am a misogynist, but i felt i would probably be called one an I am ok with that.

I don't think anorexia is healthy (though it is healthier then obesity, and less wide spread). I do however believe that the quite intelligent people who do long and expensive studies on what is biologically attractive have produced replicable results of trends, and the trend of in white European males is to find lean women with medium to small boobs, and some definition around their hips attractive. I happen to be "on trend", obviously not every one will be.

Also a lot of people have made a lot of money, and possibly defined modern society by exploiting this, and a few other biological astectic trends. They will continue to do so, as long as it remains profitable.

I don't think no one is hurt by my the fashion industry, but I don't believe that it is some monster leading millions of women to their deaths, I think this can be proven by the fact that Obesity is much more prevalent, and growing at a faster rate then Anorexia.

It would be nice if every one could be a healthy happy middle, but that is not, and will not be the world we live in, and ill though out, reactionary, overly-pc ideas about body shapes are not going to get us their any quicker then encouraging size zero for all*.

*which I am not in favor of either.
 
You can, and you will be wrong.
The Guardian 2008

"Nearly one in four children starting primary school are either overweight or obese, according to government figures which also show that by the time they leave aged 11 the proportion has risen to one in three.

The scale of the epidemic is made clear by yesterday's release of the latest results of the National Child Measurement Programme, which showed that 22.9% of four and five-year-olds are either overweight or obese, indicating that there is a serious problem before children even reach school.

By year 6, it has got worse, with 31.6% of children overweight or obese. In both age groups, boys are more likely than girls to be overweight."

BBC 2001

"The number of people who are obese has tripled over the last 20 years, and is still rising say experts.

Figures to be presented to Parliament in a National Audit Office (NAO) report on Thursday, show most adults in England are overweight, and one in five is obese.

The report 'Tackling Obesity In England', showed obesity caused 30,000 premature deaths in 1998 alone.

The NHS spends at least £500m a year on treating obesity, which could also be costing the economy over £2bn a year.

If the rise continues, it could cost the economy £3.5bn a year by 2010. "


Anorexia Nervosa Statistics
"Clinical Knowledge Summaries (CKS) Service:
Approximately 10 percent of cases of anorexia arise in men.

On average, anorexia occurs between the ages of 16 and 17.

The highest rates of anorexia are seen in female teenagers aged between 13 and 19, with 51 per 100,000 cases being seen each year.

Per year, 19 in 1000,000 females will have anorexia, while 2 per 100,000 males will have the disease.

Anorexia is also sometimes seen in older people.

Around 1 percent of schoolgirls and females have anorexia.

An identical twin has a 50 percent chance of developing anorexia if their twin has it.

A history of sexual abuse is seen in 3 out of 10 people with anorexia.

Around 5 percent of cases of anorexia will be fatal."


Lets sum up.

Obesity 1 in 5 people or more, 30,000 or more deaths per year.

Anorexia 1 in 100 people (1%), 5% fatality rate. 0.2% of the population will die of Anorexia in the UK in their life times.

additional source: http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/8243.php
 
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I will still argue the case from a mental health point of view - the fact that its obsessive and secretive, where as obesity isnt, therefore generally means that they have a much higher risk of going along with a controlling addiction - most that do recover from anorexia/bulimia tend to go onto another form of controlling addiciton which is generally secretive because they have lost that form of "control"

You almost come across that all people who are obese are so because their slobs, who sit infront of the TV all day and do nothing with their lives.....how many are obese due to ill health, medication etc etc....obesity isnt something that you can hide....so from a meantal health point of view, its a lot healthier to be fat IMO
 
From a mental health prospective, what about addiction, particularly food addiction? which is considered the hardest to treat, as you need food to survive so you can never avoid the substance you are addicted to. Also how about the depression and low self esteem that goes hand in hand with obesity?

You talk about being secretive (with out providing any evidence), again I will bring up food addicts, who like any addicts will steal, and lie to support their addiction.

your seccond paragraph is a fine example of Arugmentum Ad Hominem and unless I am mistaken in assuming you are not a qualified mental health professional, your opinion on what is better for our mental state has no baring on the facts.

Also I would like to note at this point that Anorexia is a particularly white European condition, that mainly effects the middle class, and there is therefore more research into the mental effects of it then that of Obesity which effects all races, but is more prevalent in the poor.
 
Chris - mental health isnt all about fact - it isnt all about being a trained mental health professional and it takes a lot to break down stigma's.

Ive delivered training in mental health aspects to various organisations as a survivor of mental health aspects - not saying that I have dealt with anorexia, but in the class of secrative addictions which a person can face.

A lot of mental health professionals in these days, especially the ones I know who work for the NHS, will admit that if they've not been there - they dont understand - nothing conforms to textbook.

I would like that we either get back onto the media aspects of how photoshopping can be over-done in the media or I will ask admin to close this thread.

Thank you.
 
Well said Del.

Chris, I think you have read too much into this, and just like in my thread, you seem to have missed the point of the message we are trying to get across. I am not interested in a debate here, I have other forums I frequent for that.
 
I've read both threads with interest, and one thing I did notice Chris, is that you are debating and comparing two different things. Dellipher: I apologise for continuing this thread, but I thought the point was important enough to mention.

Anorexia and Bulimia are disorders. Binge Eating Disorder is classified (by the NHS) as an Eating Disorder, and so uses the same budget as Anorexia and Bulimia. The description in this report compiled by the Royal College of Psychiatrists (London, 2000) states that current measures to help those suffering, are "woefully inadequate". That may well have changed since 2000, but it does illustrate the lack of NHS resource directed at people with an ED (whatever form it may take)

Obesity is a condition. It is caused by many many different things. NHS direct tells us that it is caused by lack of exercise and poor diet. The Office of National statistics tends to back that up. One cause of obesity might well be Binge Eating Disorder, and I can guarantee that that £500bn is not being spent on that.

Personally, I despise the marketing ploys used by all the glossies to sell their lifestyles (as well as that rubbish on the TV). My 13 year old daughter lavishes over them, and desires that lifestyle. I agree that whilst "it sells", there is no danger of it ever being removed, but I can do my bit, and the OP can do her bit. You are, of course, entitled to your opinion, but I feel that you are comparing apples to "people who eat pears" in your posts.

Hauling the topic back, and apologies once again to Dellipher for continuing the debate, I have been spending some time showing my daughter this site (not work safe sometimes) where photoshop disasters are posted daily.

To be honest, it's not too difficult to find photoshop errors in any glossy these days. Cosmo is the absolute worst, and it certainly opened my daughters' eyes when I went through it with her and circled all the errors (including, on one occasion, a six fingered model!). She delights in pointing them out to me now, and I believe that reality may well be snaking its way back into her life. Good luck to you Dellipher (and Betty) with your work. Every little helps!

As a side note, if anyone does require more information about anorexia or bulimia, feel free to contact me via PM.

-H
 
Chris Reed said:
If i had to choose i would say the retouch has a better figure, but do not find either version attractive, i would not try to pick her up in a bar. you can all call me shallow and misogynistic now.

The truth is like ever other person in the world who I find visually attractive is biological more then cultural. Being of European descent, my eyes look for traits that allow for survival and breeding in that climate. this is taller, slender women with lean muscles, middle to small sized breasts, and some shape to their hips. This is what is attractive to most men of my biology, and appears in the fashion magazines targeted and men and women of simalar dissents, or in areas controlled by them. The reason what you see in a fashion magazine is hard to achieve is that these magazines are by nature aspirational, they do not sell you cloths, they sell you a lifestyle, albeit one you will never have.

Also a thin body is a sign of a healthy metabolism, which means more energy, and a longer healthier life. As i am an active person, finding an active mate is important, and most people do not aspire to sit on the couch watch hollyoaks and eat chips, so fashion magazines sell the aspiration of having a healthy active body.

I have not even touched on the social problems caused by obesity, and the accompanying diet, but explained biologically that there is a real beauty, and that is why it is sold in magazines.

of course I am as biased as any one, as I work in fashion, so I don't have a problem with the indrustry
Click to expand...

I've been studying the ethics of photography in fashion and advertising so this is quite an interesting and relevant subject to me at the moment.

From my research, fashion magazines certainly do not promote the aspiration of a healthy active body, but one of an under-nourished, anorexic and waif-like body. To give an example, in the latter part of 2006 to early 2007, 4 South American models died from causes related to anorexia, two of those girls being sister who died within 6 months of each other.

Madrid Fashion Week have done the decent thing and banned models who's BMI is below 18 but London Fashion Week have refused to do this. Why is this, exactly? It took a model agency to specifically ban their own model, Charlotte Carter, until she gets to a healthy size. As far as I'm concerned, the fashion industry is completely irresponsible and while I'm not saying they should start using size 18-20+ models, because that's irresponsibility in the opposite direction, but simply using models of a healthy size is all that people are asking for.
 
Just to add my 2p worth into this.

Although I agree that people try and achieve the unobtainable when it comes to weight, I have direct experience of how being overweight can seriously affect your health.

My father died 2 years ago this Sunday. He was overwieght for most of his adult life. This caused him a multitude of health problems. He had heart problems and had a heart bypass and needed another one by the time he died. He had a hip and two knee replacements which he never recovered from, partly due to him being unfit and partly due to still being overweight while he was recouperating. Ultimately, being overweight killed him.

My mother had put on a lot of weight while she was caring for my Father. She had a major stroke in January this year and this has been directly attributed to her weight problem. Ultimately, being overweight caused my Mothers stroke.
 
Harlequin565 said:
I've read both threads with interest, and one thing I did notice Chris, is that you are debating and comparing two different things. Dellipher: I apologise for continuing this thread, but I thought the point was important enough to mention.

Anorexia and Bulimia are disorders. Binge Eating Disorder is classified (by the NHS) as an Eating Disorder, and so uses the same budget as Anorexia and Bulimia. The description in this report compiled by the Royal College of Psychiatrists (London, 2000) states that current measures to help those suffering, are "woefully inadequate". That may well have changed since 2000, but it does illustrate the lack of NHS resource directed at people with an ED (whatever form it may take)

Obesity is a condition. It is caused by many many different things. NHS direct tells us that it is caused by lack of exercise and poor diet. The Office of National statistics tends to back that up. One cause of obesity might well be Binge Eating Disorder, and I can guarantee that that £500bn is not being spent on that.

Personally, I despise the marketing ploys used by all the glossies to sell their lifestyles (as well as that rubbish on the TV). My 13 year old daughter lavishes over them, and desires that lifestyle. I agree that whilst "it sells", there is no danger of it ever being removed, but I can do my bit, and the OP can do her bit. You are, of course, entitled to your opinion, but I feel that you are comparing apples to "people who eat pears" in your posts.

Hauling the topic back, and apologies once again to Dellipher for continuing the debate, I have been spending some time showing my daughter this site (not work safe sometimes) where photoshop disasters are posted daily.

To be honest, it's not too difficult to find photoshop errors in any glossy these days. Cosmo is the absolute worst, and it certainly opened my daughters' eyes when I went through it with her and circled all the errors (including, on one occasion, a six fingered model!). She delights in pointing them out to me now, and I believe that reality may well be snaking its way back into her life. Good luck to you Dellipher (and Betty) with your work. Every little helps!

As a side note, if anyone does require more information about anorexia or bulimia, feel free to contact me via PM.

-H
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Harlequin Thank you for that...being classed as obese myself, I personally dont care. I know it is probably the wrong attitude to have. I'm a happy and comfortable in myself size 16/18 but having Endometriosis and other hormonal issues that I cannot [nor my weight] cannot control, but unfortunately it does mean losing weight is very hard for me. Eating healthily which I do - and even at one point going to the gym 4-times a week for well over 6months - and I didnt even drop a dress size...My gym instructor was just baffled!!!

I have done plenty of research on the condition, as well as other self-harming behaviours, and almost "obsessive" disorders. As I used to battle with Self-Harm and then developed awareness days, based from a "survivors" point of view. The fact that its all about "control" and they tend to be also quite secretivie things....which I pointed out in my previous post.

I just have to say thanks for posting your part of the "debate" :D

welly said:
I've been studying the ethics of photography in fashion and advertising so this is quite an interesting and relevant subject to me at the moment.

From my research, fashion magazines certainly do not promote the aspiration of a healthy active body, but one of an under-nourished, anorexic and waif-like body. To give an example, in the latter part of 2006 to early 2007, 4 South American models died from causes related to anorexia, two of those girls being sister who died within 6 months of each other.

Madrid Fashion Week have done the decent thing and banned models who's BMI is below 18 but London Fashion Week have refused to do this. Why is this, exactly? It took a model agency to specifically ban their own model, Charlotte Carter, until she gets to a healthy size. As far as I'm concerned, the fashion industry is completely irresponsible and while I'm not saying they should start using size 18-20+ models, because that's irresponsibility in the opposite direction, but simply using models of a healthy size is all that people are asking for.
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Welly I do think that they need more "normal" models, definately. Someone who is healthy. So what if people are "overweight" and a size 18/20 - as long as they are healthy in themselves, and confident, then the beauty shines through.

I know a lot more confident, happy and "fat" people, than I do "Skinny" ones. Because the skinner ones find that the pressure is on them just as much to stay skinny.
 
JimLin1965 said:
Just to add my 2p worth into this.

Although I agree that people try and achieve the unobtainable when it comes to weight, I have direct experience of how being overweight can seriously affect your health.

My father died 2 years ago this Sunday. He was overwieght for most of his adult life. This caused him a multitude of health problems. He had heart problems and had a heart bypass and needed another one by the time he died. He had a hip and two knee replacements which he never recovered from, partly due to him being unfit and partly due to still being overweight while he was recouperating. Ultimately, being overweight killed him.

My mother had put on a lot of weight while she was caring for my Father. She had a major stroke in January this year and this has been directly attributed to her weight problem. Ultimately, being overweight caused my Mothers stroke.
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I'm sorry about your loss of your father, and your mothers stroke. A lot of it though can be all genetic make-up. My Father had a heart attack last september, mainly down to drink and smoking - to which he has now cut down on the drink and given up smoking. However - he was more "at risk" because his dad had, had one too.

My nan on the other hand, who we have just recently lost due to terminal cancer, had a stroke at the age of 35 - which was not due to her being overweight at all.

Ive never been skinny. And found I had a lot more health problems after I lost weight - than I did with it.

I have hypermobility in my joints, which cannot be helped. I got signed off all weight bearing excercise at school due to this, because my bones were rubbing against each other. Not cos I was over-weight, but that was just the condition.

Its the media that has also made out that all obese people eat junk and are lazy...and that in all cases is not always true
 
If you hadnt shown both shots i would never have worked out what you had done. from a brides point of view the shopped one is the look they would like. For me though i dont like skinny. Size 14 is normal. As a parent of three one is a size 10 always reading labels skipping meals. she is 33 married with kids we have murder its NOT normal. Our 27 year old again as pre but a size 14 diets before holidays. 25 year old size 24 couldnt give a monkeys take it or leave, great personality thats natural. son just shakes head at 3 of them
 
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dellipher said:
Welly I do think that they need more "normal" models, definately. Someone who is healthy. So what if people are "overweight" and a size 18/20 - as long as they are healthy in themselves, and confident, then the beauty shines through.

I know a lot more confident, happy and "fat" people, than I do "Skinny" ones. Because the skinner ones find that the pressure is on them just as much to stay skinny.
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If everything is in proportion, there's no reason why size 18/20 people can't be healthy but I'd suspect that someone who is size 18/20 and anything less than about 6'6 is unlikely to be in proportion and thus healthy.

The key word is "overweight". You're carrying around too much weight which is obviously not healthy. Your heart is working far harder than it should do. Happiness and confidence isn't healthiness although obviously it contributes towards. This is probably getting a bit off topic though. I'm certainly guilty enough of being overweight but it's something I'm addressing.

Point being that the fashion industry is in a position of great influence and with that comes responsibility and it's irresponsible to be promoting underweight and overweight models. Whether models are happy, ecstatic or whatever else, to continue to be using models who are simply unhealthy and there's no way a size zero model can be anything other than unhealthy - unless they're 7 years old - is simply wrong in my opinion.
 
I much prefer the second one, as i think a woman with an hour glass figure is far more attractive, i think it's generally accepted that most guys do, having said that i wouldn't try and chat her up in a bar but only for the fact i know i would have no chance :LOL: but maybe if i was 20 years younger :love:
 
I wont disclose my weight on the internet, but at a 16/18 I weigh about 2 stone more than my friend does, and she's a size 22. She hates me for it. I've always carried my "weight" well...and I am quite in proportion for me. My friend on the other hand is small on top and carries all the weight around the bottom/hips and she just looks odd. She did once suffer with anorexic behaviour to get her down to her "target" weight.

Id rather be happy in my head, and "unhealthy" in my body...than "healthy" in my body and unhappy in my head.
 
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