Colour cast with Cokin ND filters

Byker28i

Byker28i

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Yes
OK, so first weekend with playing with ND filters and I have a set of Cokin ones.

The thing is - they seem to leave a very noticeable warming colour cast effect, which has spoilt a few of my shots.

Is this normal?
 
Yes !!!
It still amazes me after having read about this on so many forums over the years that people are so surprised when they see a colour cast.

Having reread this I apologise if it seems a bit blunt.
C
 
Ceejay said:
Yes !!!
It still amazes me after having read about this on so many forums over the years that people are so surprised when they see a colour cast.

Having reread this I apologise if it seems a bit blunt.
C
Click to expand...

I have seen this mentioned on this forum before.

Anyone know if it is purely a Cokin characteristic?
 
arclight said:
I have seen this mentioned on this forum before.

Anyone know if it is purely a Cokin characteristic?
Click to expand...

I have a ND grad and used it for a while... I just hand hold it in front of my lens and never had a colour cast issue...

Although that said... I maybe just dont know what im looking for...

My biggest headache with filters is constantly cleaning them!
 
Cokin ND's aren't strictly ND unfortunately.....they ave a very definite magenta tint to them.

Bob
 
If the filters are ND rather than ND Grads, just set a custom white balance and shoot using that setting. Grads are a bit harder to correct for!

The current Cokin ND grads are a lot better than the older Grey grads - are you sure you have NDs rather than Greys?
 
arclight said:
I have seen this mentioned on this forum before.

Anyone know if it is purely a Cokin characteristic?
Click to expand...

It does appear to be. Having only tried a Cokin ND? many years ago and finding everybody who told me about it was right I threw it away and have only used LEE N/D since. The only other filters I use are B/W since Lee do not make a 10 stop N/D. No experience of any other make.
C
 
There was an article in Amateur Photographer a week or two back about colour casts from grey graduated I think but it pointed out the casts of different manufacturers.
 
animal168 said:
i bought a cokin nd8 grad in error...turned out i already had one :bang:.
i used them last week in wales. one has a magenta cast the other is perfect. looks like its pot luck.
p.s. anyone want to buy a cokin p nd8 grad filter? :)
Click to expand...

That's because supposidly Cokin can rectifid the colour cast issues so never ones are meant to be neutral.

There's still of the issue of some shops having old stock out back rather than new ones
 
One thing worth mentioning is if you are unhappy with a Lee filter, return it to the Lee factory where they will check it for you and send a report if it is in spec. or replace it.
I was unhappy with one of my Extra Hard N/D filters they had made for me so returned it and had it checked out. Not having a densitometer i could not do it myself. anyway they remade with a slightly different spec. so am happy now.
Hmm sounds like a Lee advert, hope not, just a very satified customer.
C
 
Ceejay said:
Yes !!!
It still amazes me after having read about this on so many forums over the years that people are so surprised when they see a colour cast.

Having reread this I apologise if it seems a bit blunt.
C
Click to expand...

Sorry new to this. Thought I'd buy a set of Grads and a ND 8 and was really surprised when they came out pink.

113823525.jpg



So I reverted back to the polariser and a warming filter
113823528.jpg
 
Uneducated_Rick said:
That's because supposidly Cokin can rectifid the colour cast issues so never ones are meant to be neutral.

There's still of the issue of some shops having old stock out back rather than new ones
Click to expand...

Just bought from Warehouse Express last week. Maybe I'll take it up with them. I really wanted them for doing rig photography on the car so I can take longer exposures but it'll be useless if they are pink.
 
Just spoken to Warehouse Express.

Apparently it's my cameras fault because it's digital and the sensor doesn't work well with these filters, especially at low light, i.e. dawn/dusk when there's a lot of red in the sky.

I suppose it's all in the description - notice the bit I've bolded.
"This ND plain filter reduces the amount of light reaching the film, but without affecting the colour balance. Suitable for a 3 stop Shutter speed/Aperture decrease."

I guess it's onto Cokin next then but all I can say is don't buy these filters for digital cameras.

Bit of a suprise though all of this because I did read the Cokin website that didn't make any mention of a colour cast. They have a specific section for digital cameras:
http://www.cokin.co.uk/pages/digital.htm
 
The Cokin colour cast issue has been known for years, in fact I can recall several threads about it here alone. And myriads on other fourms - it comes up almost as much as the "What UV filtler?" question :)

The solution is to return them, and buy HiTech, excellent, and no colour cast :)
 
fatal mistake. I read the advertising blurb on their website rather than ask real photographers then:

From the link above
"Cokin filters are digital compatible . . . . . "

Even their special page for ND filters show a digital camera attached to a laptop using their filters:

http://www.cokin.co.uk/pages/ndfilters.htm
camcomp.jpg
 
From what I've read, it's not exactly a colour cast issue, if you define colour as the colours available in the visible light spectrum.

The issue (apparently, I haven't tested it myself) is that the Cokin filters transmit IR light more than visible light. Very long exposures will allow a much greater proportion of IR to visible light through, so the images are tinged with IR light, which the sensor will tend to render as red.

This is why some people have the issue and some people don't. Some cameras have stronger IR filters at the sensor than others, and it would appear that different batches from Cokin have different transmission properties.

I'll ask a mate who has access to all sorts of research equipment if he can test this for us. It'll probably be a couple of months before I find out though.
 
I've contacted the uk distributor, who have passed on my comments to Cokin.

£75 down the drain though as they are useless really. Oh well.
 
Byker28i said:
Just spoken to Warehouse Express.

Apparently it's my cameras fault because it's digital and the sensor doesn't work well with these filters, especially at low light, i.e. dawn/dusk when there's a lot of red in the sky.

I suppose it's all in the description - notice the bit I've bolded.
"This ND plain filter reduces the amount of light reaching the film, but without affecting the colour balance. Suitable for a 3 stop Shutter speed/Aperture decrease."

I guess it's onto Cokin next then but all I can say is don't buy these filters for digital cameras.

Bit of a suprise though all of this because I did read the Cokin website that didn't make any mention of a colour cast. They have a specific section for digital cameras:
http://www.cokin.co.uk/pages/digital.htm
Click to expand...

Warehouse Express seem to have told you a porkie here. Cokin filters are not well known for their neutrality.....

The pic you have posted is awful. But why use a warming filter instead? Did it really need it?

I would have thought you can return the filter and get a refund. If its not giving neutral results, it's not as advertised.
 
I had a thread about this a few weeks ago..basically bought Cokin Z PRO ND filters and they are not ND but are magenta ...the colour cast is poor, especially against white water. I am currently in discussion with Fotosense about returning these but they say they sell loads and have no problems...and it seems i may have to pay a restocking fee whatever that is...

Whatever I will be saving for some Lee filters...

500
 
Byker28i said:
OK, so first weekend with playing with ND filters and I have a set of Cokin ones.

The thing is - they seem to leave a very noticeable warming colour cast effect, which has spoilt a few of my shots.

Is this normal?
Click to expand...

Just white light correct them its not that hard as it all over with a ND filter
 
Been trying, but it's really hard in PP to get rid of the magenta cast.

That was the best of the shots by the way. Imagine how bad the grad filter was, turning the sky purple but the sea OK.
 
I have had success with auto colour correction but it does not really help on skies...lwevels has not been as effective - this is in Elements 6
 
Byker28i said:
I've contacted the uk distributor, who have passed on my comments to Cokin.

£75 down the drain though as they are useless really. Oh well.
Click to expand...

what did you buy???
http://www.teamworkphoto.com/
3 hitech ND's for 30 quid
will pair them up with a cheapy cokin holder until I get my feet wet
 
DizMatt said:
what did you buy???
http://www.teamworkphoto.com/
3 hitech ND's for 30 quid
will pair them up with a cheapy cokin holder until I get my feet wet
Click to expand...

I bought the 3 nd grad filter kit plus holder for £50, the 77mm ring and ND x8

I bought Cokin as I have a set of other filters I used in my old film days. Mind you, at least they have waht they are embossed on the cases. I even had to use tape and write on the case what these filters were.

Oh well, live and learn. Just hope others don't make the same mistake.

Thanks for the link - very helpful.
 
puddleduck said:
Yeah, these are the one to go for.

I never understand why folks buy Cokin... shows you the power of a brand folks have heard off.. even though strangely, comments are mostly negative :thinking:
Click to expand...

I have Cokin Grey Grads, 1 over 20 years old and one recent one.
No colour casts, no problems at all.
 
This was the image i tried to load to illustrate the problem I have had...:bang:


Cokin1.jpg
 
Blapto said:
From what I've read, it's not exactly a colour cast issue, if you define colour as the colours available in the visible light spectrum.

The issue (apparently, I haven't tested it myself) is that the Cokin filters transmit IR light more than visible light. Very long exposures will allow a much greater proportion of IR to visible light through, so the images are tinged with IR light, which the sensor will tend to render as red.

This is why some people have the issue and some people don't. Some cameras have stronger IR filters at the sensor than others, and it would appear that different batches from Cokin have different transmission properties.

I'll ask a mate who has access to all sorts of research equipment if he can test this for us. It'll probably be a couple of months before I find out though.
Click to expand...

OK, that's a no-go, but I've devised a quick experiment.

Can somebody who owns both Cokin and non-Cokin ND filters, is seeing a colour cast with Cokin filters, has 5 minutes and is feeling helpful do the following:

Attach Cokin ND filter.

Take exposures of:
1s, 5s, 10s, 20s, 40s with a constant aperture and ISO. Select an aperture that gives you a reasonably well exposed image at the 5, 10 or 20s exposures, this will depend on ambient light.
For the duration of the exposure, hold a television remote in the frame, pointed at the camera, with the volume up button held down.

Remove Cokin ND filter, attach any other brand filter of the same strength

Take exposures of:
1s, 5s, 10s, 20s, 40s with the same aperture and ISO as above.
For the duration of the exposure, hold a television remote in the frame, pointed at the camera, with the volume up button held down.

If what I think is happening is happening we'll see the TV remote in the first set of exposures, but not in the second set of exposures, or not at the same intensity.
 
Interesting test and I may have a go at that as I'll probably by the hitech kit as mentioned above. £30 for 3 grads & the same for 3 ND's.
 
Suvv said:
A120
A121M
Nikon D40

I used the A120 on film SLRs for many years.
Click to expand...

According to Warehouse Express it doesn't affect film, just the cmos of digital cameras, the higher res ones more. I have A series filters (although not ND's) from my old film days, but they don't fit a 77mm lens

I bought the kit with the P121L NDx2 Filter, P121M NDx4 Filter, P121S NDx8 Filter and the P154 Grey ND8x

All come out badly purple
 
Byker28i said:
According to Warehouse Express it doesn't affect film, just the cmos of digital cameras, the higher res ones more. I have A series filters (although not ND's) from my old film days, but they don't fit a 77mm lens

I bought the kit with the P121L NDx2 Filter, P121M NDx4 Filter, P121S NDx8 Filter and the P154 Grey ND8x

All come out badly purple
Click to expand...

A good retailer/manufacturer would refund you if your new kit was not to your satisfaction, and the ghastly magenta cast you got from the Cokin filters is definitely unsatisfactory. I would insist!

When I got strange colour casts with a Lee filter a few years back they exchanged it no problem.

I don't buy the line about these filters being fine with film, but not digital. Though I could be wrong about that.

Anyway, who buys filters for film these days?
 
The older cokin filters are designed to be used with film. They have released a new series ("for digital", funnily enough) that are predominantly designed to be used with digital cameras.

From what I've seen in side by side comparisons, the digital ones don't look as strong :shrug:

I've never had an issue with my cokin nd-grad, but my kenko nd cools the image.
 
jerry12953 said:
A good retailer/manufacturer would refund you if your new kit was not to your satisfaction, and the ghastly magenta cast you got from the Cokin filters is definitely unsatisfactory. I would insist!

When I got strange colour casts with a Lee filter a few years back they exchanged it no problem.

I don't buy the line about these filters being fine with film, but not digital. Though I could be wrong about that.

Anyway, who buys filters for film these days?
Click to expand...

The option wasn't offered and to be honest I threw the plastic packaging away.
Hence why I've contacted cokin direct.
 
Nikon D40 is 6Mp against the 15mp of the canon 50D. Plus A series filters are smaller so I'm wondering which lens you used.

Would the pixel count have an impact?
 
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