Indoor sports event settings

hewhoknows · 11-11-2010, 06:40

Hi all, ive posted this in the basics forum but have been recommended to post here too so hope you all dont mind a duplicated thread.

Am going to a martial arts event this coming weekend and am looking forward to trying to get some good shots, however ive never shot an indoor sports event before and am a bit uncertiain of setting to use.

Ive got a Nikon D60 and have a sigma 70-300mm lens and a 18-55mm kit lens to use (might try some wide angled shots with my sigma 10-20mm too) and will probabaly opt to shoot in either shutter priority or manual.

Done a bit of research at lighting conditions at the venue which is the nottingham arena and was thinking of using the following settings:

ISO around 400 - 1600
Fast shutter, say 1000th
widest aperture my lens will go to
Auto white balance (depending on lightings as i havent been there yet)
Shooting in RAW

Ive also got a 360AFD Jessops flash i could use but am a complete novice with it and would have to totally guess on setting if i used it.

Has anyone shot in the Nottingham arena and could give me some advice as to conditions and best settings to use??

Thanks guys

crashtestmac · 11-11-2010, 07:18

Are you the official tog or are you just taking pictures....?

With your camera i would say that 1000th of a second it way over the top.

You need to check in the arena, try and set white balance and shoot in jpeg, if you are shooting in RAW you will not be able to use burst mode fully.

I shoot the British International Taekwondo Championships a few months ago in Manchesters Sports City to the best of my memory, i shot at 500th second, ISO 1000 then adjusted the aperture to as high as posible.

Crash

Natalie_B · 11-11-2010, 08:06

i dont use 1/1000th of a second for indoor showjumping so i thing you could get away with a much lower SS !

However i doubt you'll get 1/1000th indoors with a kit lens so do you know anyone you could beg steal or borrow a prime lens from ? Say a 50mm or 85mm ??

crashtestmac · 11-11-2010, 08:18

I think you mean a 1000th Natalie_B.

Also forgot to add that i was using a 70-200 F/2.8 so you may struggle even more..! And you will not be able to use flash unless you are back in the crown at which point it will be useless..!

Natalie_B · 11-11-2010, 08:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by crashtestmac

I think you mean a 1000th Natalie_B.

Also forgot to add that i was using a 70-200 F/2.8 so you may struggle even more..! And you will not be able to use flash unless you are back in the crown at which point it will be useless..!

I did indeed, whoops

KIPAX · 11-11-2010, 09:20

Pretty much the same response I gave in talk basic.but not having been to nottingham arena I was guessing a bit.. I am almost sure someone on here has shot there so lets see today

Dman · 11-11-2010, 09:50

Let me just clarify how hard this is.

Last night i shot an indoor netball game, this was well out of my comfort zone as I'm not a sports tog and I will never try it again. Thankfully this was a favour to a good client of mine, the group shots were more important which were easy, but they wanted me to try a few action shots as well. I'll make money on the groups, but not a lot on the action ones.....

D700 - ISO 2000/2500 - 1/125 and below - f/2.8 with an 80-200mm

Having owned a D60 I know how much it struggles above ISO400 and with the kit you've got, I think you're going to really struggle, even if the lighting is good.

Oh, and shoot RAW, as your white balance will be over the place and you'll need to do a batch WB adjustment in the post.

niv2 · 11-11-2010, 10:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dman

Let me just clarify how hard this is.

Can't agree more. I have been learning to take photos of horses jumping indoors. I have had to upgrade my camera to get decent results. I found that I have to use very high ISO (3200 or 6400) to get a shutter speed of around 1/500 at max aperture of f2.8.

From my own experience, I think the OP proposed camera settings are very optimistic.....anyway, worht trying and see what happens..

Try jpeg as well as raw...you may be surprised at the result with jpeg

KIPAX · 11-11-2010, 10:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by niv2

Try jpeg as well as raw...you may be surprised at the result with jpeg

A jpg will be less noisy than a raw..(unless you want to get real techie about it) . a jpg is compressed and as anyone knows the more you compress the less noise shows...

Dman · 11-11-2010, 10:54

If you're going to shoot JPEG, just make sure you nail the WB before you start shooting.

crashtestmac · 11-11-2010, 11:20

If you are shooting in RAW forget the white balance as it can all be fixed after.

Dman · 11-11-2010, 14:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by crashtestmac

If you are shooting in RAW forget the white balance as it can all be fixed after.

Yeah, that's what I meant

hewhoknows · 11-11-2010, 16:03 **Thread Starter**

thanks for all your feedback and advice guys, very much appreciated. Having NEVER shot at an indoor sports event before im a bit nieve about settings so what has been posted above really helps.

Sounds like im going to really struggle with the kit ive got but ill still give it a go and hopefully get a few decent images. Doubt ill be able to get a fast lens before the weekend, mainly due to finances but ill struggle along with my kit lens and my 70-300 and see what i get.

Can see the camera bag going back into the car within an hour though lol!!!

Photodiva · 11-11-2010, 17:07

Hi. I've shot martial arts competition at 'typical' sports hall. Nightmare, really. I've used slow sync flash (looking at exif data, 1/60th, f.3.5, iso 400 using my 24-70L. Depends on what you are trying to achieve. Freeze frame will be quite hard, flash may not be appreciated. I ended up lying or sitting on the floor for the example.

Kids dad is in the background (with the camera).

KIPAX · 11-11-2010, 17:37

surprised you where allowed flash... and isnt that the best dressed ref

Photodiva · 11-11-2010, 21:21

All the refs are smart at these events. It was agreed flash was ok.

hewhoknows · 13-11-2010, 14:29 **Thread Starter**

Got myself a Nikkor 50mm f1.8D to take with me, hopefully be able to get some decent shots with it. Ill post some up early next week.

Thanks for all the advice

odd jim · 14-11-2010, 06:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Photodiva

Hi. I've shot martial arts competition at 'typical' sports hall. Nightmare, really. I've used slow sync flash (looking at exif data, 1/60th, f.3.5, iso 400 using my 24-70L. Depends on what you are trying to achieve. Freeze frame will be quite hard, flash may not be appreciated. I ended up lying or sitting on the floor for the example.

Kids dad is in the background (with the camera).

Nice shot, but just curious as to why you didnt up the ISO? The 50D can shoot easily at 1600 iso before you see noticeable noise, and that would have given you a very usable shutter speed! I shoot indoor equestrian at 2500 iso without any real image degradation and these can be cleaned in PP.

Photodiva · 14-11-2010, 08:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by odd jim

Nice shot, but just curious as to why you didnt up the ISO? The 50D can shoot easily at 1600 iso before you see noticeable noise, and that would have given you a very usable shutter speed! I shoot indoor equestrian at 2500 iso without any real image degradation and these can be cleaned in PP.

I probably could have, perhaps did later on. I'm not enormously impressed with the 50D's noise, though. I didn't have noise ninja back then, either.

odd jim · 14-11-2010, 15:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Photodiva

I probably could have, perhaps did later on. I'm not enormously impressed with the 50D's noise, though. I didn't have noise ninja back then, either.

Really? I think the 50D handles high ISO very well, particularly when processed with DPP.

Photodiva · 15-11-2010, 11:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by odd jim

Really? I think the 50D handles high ISO very well, particularly when processed with DPP.

May be my expectations were too high. Mind you, speaking to some of the press boys at the footie, sometimes they give up under the floodlights and they've got 1DMs or Nikons.

KIPAX · 15-11-2010, 11:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Photodiva

Mind you, speaking to some of the press boys at the footie, sometimes they give up under the floodlights and they've got 1DMs or Nikons.

Seriously..? then they shouldnt be doing the job. I have been to the darkest poorest lit places in the country and have always come away with something.. If its got floodlights then it can be photogrpahed.. simple as that.

Anyone who is on a press assignment and gives up shouldnt even be working in the industry IMHO

SimonTALM · 15-11-2010, 12:21

If you are inside at an event you probably get the best results shooting completely manual (both exposure and W/B) as the lighting won't be changing during the day.

Assuming flash is banned as it is for most events, the key is for sports is to fix the shutter speed first by working out how much movement you want (if any), keeping in mind that a kid with lower skill levels won't move as quick as an adult who has higher levels of skill, so with low skill kids you can get away with a lower shutter speed. Once you've chosen your shutter speed put the lens to the widest aperture (smallest f number) you can and then use the ISO to get the right exposure.

To give examples:

I've just done 2 weekends of Shooting Gymnastics using my D3s and 70-200 f2.8

Week 1) Regional Finals (age range 7-17 with most early teens IIRC) the lighting was quite good lighting as it was a regional centre of excellence for gymnastics and I was shooting ISO4000, 1/500 @ f3.2. This just about froze all the action in all but the fastest of moves by the oldest of kids.

Week 2) Local Club Open Tournament (age range 7-15 with most pre-teen) but the lighting was a typical sports hall with quite low levels of light so I ended up shooting at ISO6400 1/250 @ f3.2 (Looking on the back of the camera all looked good but on the computer screen I was getting small amounts of movement in some shots; in reflection I probably should have upped the shutter speed to 1/320 or even 1/400 and adjusted the ISO up to give the same exposure).

In both venues I fixed the W/B using an Expodisc and shot the same settings through the day. Just be careful not to do this too early as most hall lights need time to warm up (at least 1hr) and change both light levels and colour temperature whilst they do.

Photodiva · 15-11-2010, 13:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by KIPAX

Seriously..? then they shouldnt be doing the job. I have been to the darkest poorest lit places in the country and have always come away with something.. If its got floodlights then it can be photogrpahed.. simple as that.

Anyone who is on a press assignment and gives up shouldnt even be working in the industry IMHO

Well, I've no idea if he meant it, but that was the conversation. We were talking about the Port Vale match, and by half time the lights were on. The daylight did fade pretty quick, but even I managed to get some reasonable pics under the floodlights. Mind you, the chap is a general press photog for local press, so maybe sport isn't his forte! Or maybe he got enough pics not to have to worry about it. I'm always glad I don't have to spend ages battling with the Saturday traffic trundling from one local football ground to another, parking, gaining admittance, lugging equipment only to spend 15 mins trying to grab some shots when the action is down t'other end of pitch.
Sometimes these guys seem glad to make a quick visit, grab some shots and go home at 4 p.m.!

Photodiva · 15-11-2010, 13:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by SimonTALM

If you are inside at an event you probably get the best results shooting completely manual (both exposure and W/B) as the lighting won't be changing during the day.

Assuming flash is banned as it is for most events, the key is for sports is to fix the shutter speed first by working out how much movement you want (if any), keeping in mind that a kid with lower skill levels won't move as quick as an adult who has higher levels of skill, so with low skill kids you can get away with a lower shutter speed. Once you've chosen your shutter speed put the lens to the widest aperture (smallest f number) you can and then use the ISO to get the right exposure.
..edit..
In both venues I fixed the W/B using an Expodisc and shot the same settings through the day. Just be careful not to do this too early as most hall lights need time to warm up (at least 1hr) and change both light levels and colour temperature whilst they do.

Very useful stuff. I shoot raw, so tend not to bother too much about WB. I've found under fluorescent that it can change dramatically when you shoot continuous, something to do with phasing of the fluorescent tube? That really annoys!

KIPAX · 15-11-2010, 13:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Photodiva

Well, I've no idea if he meant it, but that was the conversation. We were talking about the Port Vale match, and by half time the lights were on. The daylight did fade pretty quick, but even I managed to get some reasonable pics under the floodlights. Mind you, the chap is a general press photog for local press, so maybe sport isn't his forte! Or maybe he got enough pics not to have to worry about it. I'm always glad I don't have to spend ages battling with the Saturday traffic trundling from one local football ground to another, parking, gaining admittance, lugging equipment only to spend 15 mins trying to grab some shots when they action is down t'other end of pitch.
Sometimes these guys seem glad to make a quick visit, grab some shots and go home at 4 p.m.!

Thats not giving up........... thats how a press photogrpaher works. giving up is what you said and thats not how a press photographer works... I replied on the giving up comment

Photodiva · 15-11-2010, 13:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by KIPAX

Thats not giving up........... thats how a press photogrpaher works. giving up is what you said and thats not how a press photographer works... I replied on the giving up comment

Well, he said "gave up". I don't envy them at all

hewhoknows · 15-11-2010, 21:57 **Thread Starter**

EDIT: photos removed for better PP

miajanehallam · 25-02-2012, 08:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Natalie_B

i dont use 1/1000th of a second for indoor showjumping so i thing you could get away with a much lower SS !

However i doubt you'll get 1/1000th indoors with a kit lens so do you know anyone you could beg steal or borrow a prime lens from ? Say a 50mm or 85mm ??

Hi Natalie,
I'm shooting an indoor show tomorrow (for a bit o experience) at a local yard and thought you may be able to help?
I've got a Canon eos 400d with standard, telephoto and fisheye lens.
The arena is pretty dark so I didn't know of you would be able to give me a few tips on settings etc.
I usually use manual mode wit high aperture and an ISO of 800. I'm confused on whether to shoot in raw or jpeg. And what sort of shutter speed. Last time my pictures were pretty dark and fuzzy in places and I don't want that to happen again
The show general so showing and showjumping.
Thanks so much and hope to here from you!

niv2 · 25-02-2012, 12:08

Perhaps I can help....

Having used a 400d for indoor equestrian, you will struggle to get good results unless the lighting is very good.

You will need to set the ISO for the highest acceptable (from memory, I think ISO1600 is about the highest you can realistically go with the camera...even then the results will be noisy.

I use aperture priority and set the lens to the highest aperture possible. Indoors unless you can go to f2.8 you will struggle to get an acceptable shutter speed. I also try and over expose by about 1/3 stop which seems to help reduce noise a bit. You need to monitor the shutter speed to make sure that it is sufficient to stop the action. 1/250 is a bare minimum; even then you will get variable results unless you are skilled.

The camera should be set to AI servo and you should use center point focusing only. You will need to pick up the horse on its approach to a jump and pan with it carefully (either use back button focus or you will need to press the shutter halfway to activate focus) Then fire shutter just as the horse is leaving the ground. It takes time and practice to get the fence and horse all in the ideal position.

Jepg or raw....raw will necessitate more work when you get home but you may be able to manipulate exposure somewhat. Most pros shoot jpeg but that is mainly so that the photos can be displayed for sale immediately.

A lot of equestrian photographers will use a 70-200mm zoom...I have also used a 24-70mm where I can get closer.

Showing above all applies. Again look for a minimum of 1/250 shutter speed.

I found it easy to get disheartened when I started taking equestrian photos indoors...it is technically quite demanding. Far better to start outdoors where the light is so much better and hone your technique / timing there.

Finally, a good noise reduction programme will certainly help tidy up your photos.

11-11-2010, 06:40	#1
hewhoknows Forum Regular Real name : Matt Location: Shropshire Posts: 882 Camera: Nikon D3 & D7000	Indoor sports event settings Hi all, ive posted this in the basics forum but have been recommended to post here too so hope you all dont mind a duplicated thread. Am going to a martial arts event this coming weekend and am looking forward to trying to get some good shots, however ive never shot an indoor sports event before and am a bit uncertiain of setting to use. Ive got a Nikon D60 and have a sigma 70-300mm lens and a 18-55mm kit lens to use (might try some wide angled shots with my sigma 10-20mm too) and will probabaly opt to shoot in either shutter priority or manual. Done a bit of research at lighting conditions at the venue which is the nottingham arena and was thinking of using the following settings: ISO around 400 - 1600 Fast shutter, say 1000th widest aperture my lens will go to Auto white balance (depending on lightings as i havent been there yet) Shooting in RAW Ive also got a 360AFD Jessops flash i could use but am a complete novice with it and would have to totally guess on setting if i used it. Has anyone shot in the Nottingham arena and could give me some advice as to conditions and best settings to use?? Thanks guys __________________ flickr \| Website \| Facebook \| 500px OCA Learning Log

11-11-2010, 08:06	#3
Natalie_B Forum Regular Location: UK Posts: 790 Camera: Canon 7d	i dont use 1/1000th of a second for indoor showjumping so i thing you could get away with a much lower SS ! However i doubt you'll get 1/1000th indoors with a kit lens so do you know anyone you could beg steal or borrow a prime lens from ? Say a 50mm or 85mm ?? __________________ WWW.JUMPORAMIC.CO.UK Last edited by Natalie_B; 11-11-2010 at 08:26.

11-11-2010, 09:20	#6
KIPAX Waldorf Real name : Waldorf Location: Accrington Posts: 11,678 Camera: Canon	Pretty much the same response I gave in talk basic.but not having been to nottingham arena I was guessing a bit.. I am almost sure someone on here has shot there so lets see today __________________ Freelance Sports Photographer : www.kipax.com Facebook.... http://www.facebook.com/KIPAX Twitter.... https://twitter.com/KIPAX_dot_com

11-11-2010, 09:50	#7
Dman Feet under the table Real name : Dave Posts: 3,256 Camera: D3s x 2, X100	Let me just clarify how hard this is. Last night i shot an indoor netball game, this was well out of my comfort zone as I'm not a sports tog and I will never try it again. Thankfully this was a favour to a good client of mine, the group shots were more important which were easy, but they wanted me to try a few action shots as well. I'll make money on the groups, but not a lot on the action ones..... D700 - ISO 2000/2500 - 1/125 and below - f/2.8 with an 80-200mm Having owned a D60 I know how much it struggles above ISO400 and with the kit you've got, I think you're going to really struggle, even if the lighting is good. Oh, and shoot RAW, as your white balance will be over the place and you'll need to do a batch WB adjustment in the post. Last edited by Dman; 11-11-2010 at 09:52.

11-11-2010, 10:54	#10
Dman Feet under the table Real name : Dave Posts: 3,256 Camera: D3s x 2, X100	If you're going to shoot JPEG, just make sure you nail the WB before you start shooting. Last edited by Dman; 11-11-2010 at 14:23.

11-11-2010, 07:18	#2
crashtestmac Forum Regular Real name : Mac Location: Huddersfield Posts: 589 Camera: D3	Are you the official tog or are you just taking pictures....? With your camera i would say that 1000th of a second it way over the top. You need to check in the arena, try and set white balance and shoot in jpeg, if you are shooting in RAW you will not be able to use burst mode fully. I shoot the British International Taekwondo Championships a few months ago in Manchesters Sports City to the best of my memory, i shot at 500th second, ISO 1000 then adjusted the aperture to as high as posible. Crash

11-11-2010, 08:18	#4
crashtestmac Forum Regular Real name : Mac Location: Huddersfield Posts: 589 Camera: D3	I think you mean a 1000th Natalie_B. Also forgot to add that i was using a 70-200 F/2.8 so you may struggle even more..! And you will not be able to use flash unless you are back in the crown at which point it will be useless..!

11-11-2010, 11:20	#11
crashtestmac Forum Regular Real name : Mac Location: Huddersfield Posts: 589 Camera: D3	If you are shooting in RAW forget the white balance as it can all be fixed after.

11-11-2010, 16:03 Thread Starter	#13
hewhoknows Forum Regular Real name : Matt Location: Shropshire Posts: 882 Camera: Nikon D3 & D7000	thanks for all your feedback and advice guys, very much appreciated. Having NEVER shot at an indoor sports event before im a bit nieve about settings so what has been posted above really helps. Sounds like im going to really struggle with the kit ive got but ill still give it a go and hopefully get a few decent images. Doubt ill be able to get a fast lens before the weekend, mainly due to finances but ill struggle along with my kit lens and my 70-300 and see what i get. Can see the camera bag going back into the car within an hour though lol!!!

11-11-2010, 17:07	#14
Photodiva Foot elevated on the stool Real name : Carol Location: London Posts: 3,491 Camera: Canon 1DMkIII and Canon 50D	Hi. I've shot martial arts competition at 'typical' sports hall. Nightmare, really. I've used slow sync flash (looking at exif data, 1/60th, f.3.5, iso 400 using my 24-70L. Depends on what you are trying to achieve. Freeze frame will be quite hard, flash may not be appreciated. I ended up lying or sitting on the floor for the example. Kids dad is in the background (with the camera). __________________ Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm. Sir Winston Churchill The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Albert Einstein Last edited by Photodiva; 11-11-2010 at 17:11.

11-11-2010, 17:37	#15
KIPAX Waldorf Real name : Waldorf Location: Accrington Posts: 11,678 Camera: Canon	surprised you where allowed flash... and isnt that the best dressed ref

11-11-2010, 21:21	#16
Photodiva Foot elevated on the stool Real name : Carol Location: London Posts: 3,491 Camera: Canon 1DMkIII and Canon 50D	All the refs are smart at these events. It was agreed flash was ok.

13-11-2010, 14:29 Thread Starter	#17
hewhoknows Forum Regular Real name : Matt Location: Shropshire Posts: 882 Camera: Nikon D3 & D7000	Got myself a Nikkor 50mm f1.8D to take with me, hopefully be able to get some decent shots with it. Ill post some up early next week. Thanks for all the advice

15-11-2010, 12:21	#23
SimonTALM Linford Christie Real name : Simon Location: North Cheshire Posts: 3,216 Camera: Nikon D3s, Nikon D700, Nikon D300 & Fuji S5 Pro	If you are inside at an event you probably get the best results shooting completely manual (both exposure and W/B) as the lighting won't be changing during the day. Assuming flash is banned as it is for most events, the key is for sports is to fix the shutter speed first by working out how much movement you want (if any), keeping in mind that a kid with lower skill levels won't move as quick as an adult who has higher levels of skill, so with low skill kids you can get away with a lower shutter speed. Once you've chosen your shutter speed put the lens to the widest aperture (smallest f number) you can and then use the ISO to get the right exposure. To give examples: I've just done 2 weekends of Shooting Gymnastics using my D3s and 70-200 f2.8 Week 1) Regional Finals (age range 7-17 with most early teens IIRC) the lighting was quite good lighting as it was a regional centre of excellence for gymnastics and I was shooting ISO4000, 1/500 @ f3.2. This just about froze all the action in all but the fastest of moves by the oldest of kids. Week 2) Local Club Open Tournament (age range 7-15 with most pre-teen) but the lighting was a typical sports hall with quite low levels of light so I ended up shooting at ISO6400 1/250 @ f3.2 (Looking on the back of the camera all looked good but on the computer screen I was getting small amounts of movement in some shots; in reflection I probably should have upped the shutter speed to 1/320 or even 1/400 and adjusted the ISO up to give the same exposure). In both venues I fixed the W/B using an Expodisc and shot the same settings through the day. Just be careful not to do this too early as most hall lights need time to warm up (at least 1hr) and change both light levels and colour temperature whilst they do. __________________ My Flickr pages Photography by Simon H - Wilmslow, Wedding Photographer Cheshire Cheshire Baby Photographer Find us on Facebook

15-11-2010, 21:57 Thread Starter	#28
hewhoknows Forum Regular Real name : Matt Location: Shropshire Posts: 882 Camera: Nikon D3 & D7000	EDIT: photos removed for better PP Last edited by hewhoknows; 17-11-2010 at 18:55.

25-02-2012, 12:08	#30
niv2 Been here a while Real name : David Posts: 317 Camera: Canon 7d	Perhaps I can help.... Having used a 400d for indoor equestrian, you will struggle to get good results unless the lighting is very good. You will need to set the ISO for the highest acceptable (from memory, I think ISO1600 is about the highest you can realistically go with the camera...even then the results will be noisy. I use aperture priority and set the lens to the highest aperture possible. Indoors unless you can go to f2.8 you will struggle to get an acceptable shutter speed. I also try and over expose by about 1/3 stop which seems to help reduce noise a bit. You need to monitor the shutter speed to make sure that it is sufficient to stop the action. 1/250 is a bare minimum; even then you will get variable results unless you are skilled. The camera should be set to AI servo and you should use center point focusing only. You will need to pick up the horse on its approach to a jump and pan with it carefully (either use back button focus or you will need to press the shutter halfway to activate focus) Then fire shutter just as the horse is leaving the ground. It takes time and practice to get the fence and horse all in the ideal position. Jepg or raw....raw will necessitate more work when you get home but you may be able to manipulate exposure somewhat. Most pros shoot jpeg but that is mainly so that the photos can be displayed for sale immediately. A lot of equestrian photographers will use a 70-200mm zoom...I have also used a 24-70mm where I can get closer. Showing above all applies. Again look for a minimum of 1/250 shutter speed. I found it easy to get disheartened when I started taking equestrian photos indoors...it is technically quite demanding. Far better to start outdoors where the light is so much better and hone your technique / timing there. Finally, a good noise reduction programme will certainly help tidy up your photos.