High speed sync - canon

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rcr-photography

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By experts on high speed sync around this forum I want to master it will my off camera flash attached .

I understand that the the shutter controls the ambient light and the aperture controls the flash power but against my friends Nikon with his FP mode which is equivalent to canons high speed sync he can really make the back ground dark and a great light in the model but my doesn't seem to match it.
 
rcr-photography said:
By experts on high speed sync around this forum I want to master it will my off camera flash attached .

I understand that the the shutter controls the ambient light and the aperture controls the flash power but against my friends Nikon with his FP mode which is equivalent to canons high speed sync he can really make the back ground dark and a great light in the model but my doesn't seem to match it.
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If you want to learn about Canon flash, you're in luck. Get this book by Syl Arena - The Speedliter's Handbook. Excellent, comprehensive, easy to read and up to date :) http://www.amazon.co.uk/Speedliters...1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1334077040&sr=1-1-catcorr

For high speed sync, all you need is a HSS enabled gun. All Canon guns have it, and some of the top-end third party ones. But you'll struggle to over-power daylight with it, unless you're either very close or the sun is going down, or both.

HSS is inherantly weak, because of the way it works, but very useful indeed for things like fill-in flash in bright sun.
 
Not only is HSS weak, but the higher you raise the shutter speed the weaker it becomes. If you have power to spare that may not be an issue, but eventually the flash gun will run out of puff. If your subject is distant, or you need to cover a wide angle, or you are using a light modifier such as a softbox then the available power is going to be increasingly limited.

Here's a quick and dirty series of shots with my 5D2 and 580EX II. The first shot is without flash. The second shot is with flash at the sync speed. After that I progressively raise the shutter speed until it becomes clear that the flash no longer has sufficient power to light the subject properly.

20120411_131059_.JPG


You can see that at this range and spread, with a bare flash aimed straight at the subject, that the flash is hanging on in there until 1/1250. At 1/2500 it's clearly falling short and at 1/5000 it is weaker still. Of course, at this point I've almost turned day into night as far as the ambient is concerned, and if I'd moved a little closer or zoomed the flash head into a narrower beam I might even have managed to illuminate the subject fully with just the one flash.

If the ambient light had been less bright then instead of shooting at f/5.6 I could have opened up the aperture a bit and that would have increased the effectiveness of the flash. All in all it's a big juggling act between the ambient light levels, the power of your flash, distance, modifiers and artistic vision. If you go off camera with the flash then you can potentially get the flash much closer to the subject and help the flash out, maybe even with enough in reserve to use a softbox too.

Another approach, rather than using HSS, is to use an ND filter to reduce the strength of the ambient light. It will reduce the flash power too, but if it means you can open up the aperture and remain within sync speed it will give the flash a better chance of delivering what you need. This can be especially handy when going with off camera flash and probably losing the option to use HSS altogether.

As for the comparison between your friend's Nikon gear and your own, unless the setup was identical in all important respects (e.g. flash power (Guide Number), flash head zoom setting, flash distance, aperture value, ISO, ambient light levels etc.) it is hard to make valid comparisons.
 
Hi tdodd,

Thanks for your test shots and explanation, what was the manual power setting of your flash, or was it ettl with maximum, or no Flash compensation ?
 
Ah thanks for your quick reply, did you use FEL on the bag ?
 
Mitch38 said:
Ah thanks for your quick reply, did you use FEL on the bag ?
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No. As I didn't have a human subject handy I chose the bag for its largish size and tonal values broadly similar to flesh tones. Ambient exposure was manual. The flash was left to do entirely its own thing with no input from me. I left the flash several seconds between shots in order to hopefully let it fully recharge between shots.

EDIT : For those who don't understand HSS, here's the simple explanation why the effective power reduces as the shutter speed increases.....

When you shoot at or below sync speed the shutter curtains are fully open at the moment the flash fires. That means the sensor receives the full power of the reflected light from the flash. As soon as you increase shutter speed above the sync speed the shutter curtains are not fully open when the flash fires. Instead the two curtains move with a slit between them rather than a gap wide enough to expose the whole sensor at once. The higher the shutter speed the smaller the slit. This means that when shooting with HSS some of the light reflected back from the flash is now hitting the curtain(s) instead of the sensor and is thus wasted. The smaller the slit the more light hits the curtains and the less reaches the sensor. Ultimately the flash is firing at max power, but so much light is wasted on the curtains that there is simply not enough left to expose the subject correctly.
 
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No. As I didn't have a human subject handy I chose the bag for its largish size and tonal values broadly similar to flesh tones. Ambient exposure was manual. The flash was left to do entirely its own thing with no input from me. I left the flash several seconds between shots in order to hopefully let it fully recharge between shots.
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The default ettl flash metering is evaluative, I personally think when using evaluative, you should be prepared to add or minus flash compensation. Using FEL changes the flash metering mode to something closer to spot metering – this would be preferable once you decide you’re not going to use FEC. Using FEL on a non human subject is actually an advantage, as one of its drawbacks is that people think you’ve taken the shot when you hit the FEL button.

I’m not wholesale disagreeing with your explanation or methodology, just flagging up that maybe your test conditions didn’t allow the system to perform to it’s optimum.

HSS has strengths and weakness, you can’t say fairer that that. (y)
 
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Mitch38 said:
The default ettl flash metering is evaluative, I personally think when using evaluative, you should be prepared to add or minus flash compensation. Using FEL changes the flash metering mode to something closer to spot metering – this would be preferable once you decide you’re not going to use FEC. Using FEL on a non human subject is actually an advantage, as one of its drawbacks is that people think you’ve taken the shot when you hit the FEL button.

I’m not wholesale disagreeing with your explanation or methodology, just flagging up that maybe your test conditions didn’t allow the system to perform to it’s optimum.

HSS has strengths and weakness, you can’t say fairer that that. (y)
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What's wrong with it? Looks like an excellent test to me.
 
What's wrong with it? Looks like an excellent test to me.
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I think I've explained my points fully in my previous post, have a read and if you have any questions I'll do my best to explain again.
 
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LOl I'm double posting not sure what's happening :)
 
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Mitch38 said:
I think I've explained my points fully in my previous post, have a read and if you have any questions I'll do my best to explain again.
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Just wondering how the "test conditions didn’t allow the system to perform to it’s optimum" when clearly they did, and it shows the effect of HSS working perfectly until it runs out of puff... :thinking:
 
I'll adjust one of my my previous answers to hopefully keep everyone happy. I was using FEC. I chose to set it to 0.

Why? Because it was just fine that way. I was not shooting a frame filling Scandinavian bride in white, nor a frame filling Nigerian groom in black. I had a pretty average scene with the roughly neutrally toned subject well separated from the background by distance. ETTL II should have been quite capable of sorting out the subject from the background and working out a suitable flash exposure for the subject, and to me it looks like it did just fine. If I had observed an unusual result from the flash I might well have tweaked FEC. Since I didn't see a problem I saw no reason to fiddle about for the sake of it.

Everything was locked down - camera on tripod, static subject, background unaltered in the minute or so it took to shoot the series. For the purposes of this demo, which was all about HSS, and not about perfect flash exposures of difficult subjects, the settings used (and the results obtained) were, IMHO, completely reasonable. If I had set a non-zero value for FEC it would have remained that way throughout the series since the subject was identical throughout. The playing field would have remained level from shot to shot. So all in all, no material difference one way or the other other than at which shutter speed the flash ran out of puff.

Mitch, since my efforts are supposedly sub-optimal perhaps you'd be kind enough to shoot a similar series using your optimal flash exposure techniques and showing how it should have been done. I'd be very interested in seeing the improvement you are able to obtain.
 
This is a very interesting thread,after reading through it all yesterday i had a mess about with HSS.
Never tried that before so can i ask is it any help using this with a high shutter sync for freezing any slight movement in shots.
Hope i have explained what i mean there,is it really any use for amateur photography to use a higher shutter speed,cheers.:)(y)
 
jockwav said:
This is a very interesting thread,after reading through it all yesterday i had a mess about with HSS.
Never tried that before so can i ask is it any help using this with a high shutter sync for freezing any slight movement in shots.
Hope i have explained what i mean there,is it really any use for amateur photography to use a higher shutter speed,cheers.:)(y)
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Well yes and no. In HSS mode, the flash duration is the same as your shutter speed.

With HSS (Nikon's FP-Sync mode) the gun fires very differently. Instead of one big, bright flash, the power output is divided up into lots of much less bright flashes which it fires in a constant stream. For a very brief period of time, say about 10ms which is roughly the time a focal plane shutter takes to complete its full cycle, the flash effectively becomes continuous light.

That is why it reacts to exposure just like continuous light, as Tim's shots of the orange bag show. He's used E-TTL, so the camera automatically increases the flash output as much as it can, and it does that successfully up to 1/1,250sec. But that's where it maxes out so at 1/2,500sec and 1/5,000sec it underexposes just like the daylight.

Generally speaking, if you want to freeze movement, you will be better off using normal flash sync and letting the very brief duration of the standard flash output do the job. In round numbers, it will never be longer than about 1/1000sec (full power) and can go down to something like 1/30,000sec at minimum power.

Edit: the main problem with HSS is the loss of effective flash power. Just by switching it on, you will lose about 2-3 stops of potential output, and that reduces pro-rata as shutter speed increases. Basically, it runs out of range much more quickly than normal x-sync and because it's always working pretty hard, recycle times are longer. And it eats batteries ;) But when you need it and you're within range, typically for fill-in when shooting portraits and small groups in bright sun, it's brilliantly effective and fully automated (y)
 
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When you use HSS the flash fires as a continuous stream of pulses rather than one brief, powerful pulse. Effectively it becomes a continuous light source, albeit very briefly.

If you shoot at or below the sync speed the pulse is very short and has great stopping power for motion. I'm not sure of the exact stats but at full power the pulse will last for around 1/1000 and as you reduce the power it shortens further until at its fastest the pulse may last only around 1/50000. If the ambient light contribution is low and the flash power is the only significant source of light for the shot then regardless of your chosen shutter speed the flash pulse itself is what governs the power to freeze action.

Once you move into HSS territory the flash pulses last for as long as the shutter is open, so a shot at 1/800 with HSS will potentially have less stopping power than a shot at the sync speed using full power or less. Even at something like 1/2000 for the shutter, that may still have less stopping power than shooting at the sync speed with the flash on 1/4 power or so.

Which one wins depends on how much ambient is getting through to the sensor. If you can kill the ambient light at the sync speed (e.g. indoors or when shooting macro at small apertures) then go for sync speed and a short flash pulse. If the ambient is too strong then go for a high shutter speed to kill the ambient and choose a speed fast enough for your action stopping needs. But be aware that your flash power is diminished as you turn up the wick on the shutter speed.

EDIT : Just did a quick Google and found some stats for the 580EX - http://www.photosbykev.com/wordpress/2008/07/12/canon-580ex-flash-duration/
 
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Thanks Richard & Tim,so i think overall not really to be used a lot in everyday use i take it.
I was just curious about how it all works,cheers for that.:)(y)
 
Probably one of the more common reasons to use it is when you want a shallow DOF for outdoor portraits and you need some fill flash. If the conditions are bright and you're at f/2.8 or something like that then even at 100 ISO you'll need a shutter speed well above the sync speed - maybe up to 1/3200 or so - in order to expose for the ambient light correctly. If you want to creatively reduce the ambient exposure further you may need to push the shutter speed even higher (or use an ND filter). That's when HSS can be so convenient.

There was a video by Adorama TV recently, which I think covered this topic. I'll try to dig it out.

This isn't the one I was thinking about, but it explains the HSS process and why it is necessary - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-BD_xD43oA
 
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jockwav said:
Thanks Richard & Tim,so i think overall not really to be used a lot in everyday use i take it.
I was just curious about how it all works,cheers for that.:)(y)
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I wouldn't say that. I use HSS a lot, and wouldn't buy a flash gun without it.

I frequently use flash outdoors for fill-in, or as Tim says when you want a low f/number for shallow DoF effects. In both situations, the shutter speed will naturally need to rise above the normal x-sync threshold, so you're stuffed without HSS. Or forced to attempt a much more complicated workaround with ND filters.

HSS is so easy. It's fully automated, just like normal TTL flash, and you simply switch it on and leave it on. It switches itself in and out of HSS mode as and when the shutter speed demands.
 
Mitch, since my efforts are supposedly sub-optimal perhaps you'd be kind enough to shoot a similar series using your optimal flash exposure techniques and showing how it should have been done. I'd be very interested in seeing the improvement you are able to obtain..
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Tim, I think I need to make it clear I’m not being negative when I wrote:

I’m not wholesale disagreeing with your explanation or methodology, just flagging up that maybe your test conditions didn’t allow the system to perform to it’s optimum.
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Soz, I will check my comments more carefully in future, especially late at night. I’m here to make friends, not to be a pain. :)

As it happens I do have some time on my hands right now I will go out and take those shots, I have the same kit and the ambient light look about the same I may be able to use the same lens and distance from the bag, what were these ?
 
Well explained,thanks guys.:)(y)
 
Mitch38 said:
As it happens I do have some time on my hands right now I will go out and take those shots, I have the same kit and the ambient light look about the same I may be able to use the same lens and distance from the bag, what were these ?
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The lens was my 24-70 at 50mm. The bag was probably a smidge under 2m from the focal plane, maybe 190cm. The subject was a 17Kg empty dog food bag.

The subject was in the shade of my house, although conditions, as you can no doubt tell from the exposure and appearance, were light overcast, so the difference between shade and stronger lighting was not huge.
 
Mitch38 said:
Tim, I think I need to make it clear I’m not being negative when I wrote:



Soz, I will check my comments more carefully in future, especially late at night. I’m here to make friends, not to be a pain. :)

As it happens I do have some time on my hands right now I will go out and take those shots, I have the same kit and the ambient light look about the same I may be able to use the same lens and distance from the bag, what were these ?
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No worries Mitch. I could use a little late-night/early-hours company around here :)
 
No worries Mitch. I could use a little late-night/early-hours company around here
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I really should be in bed by 10.30 pm most nights :) I usually have my late nights tues and wed :)

BTW I went out and did those test shots earlier. When I first said I’d do them there was blue skies with 50% cloud cover and the sun was out, by the time I ran about finding a bag, the light levels were falling a bit. When I got to my final shots it was almost overcast with light rain.. Because the ambient wasn’t constant I can't be 100% sure of the value of the test.
I haven't worked out what the results are telling me.

Plus, I went into manual flash mode and started halving the distance to the subject I forgot to record what I did. :wacky:
 
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Mitch38 said:
I really should be in bed by 10.30 pm most nights :) I usually have my late nights tues and wed :)

BTW I went out and did those test shots earlier. When I first said I’d do them there was blue skies with 50% cloud cover and the sun was out, by the time I ran about finding a bag, the light levels were falling a bit. When I got to my final shots it was almost overcast with light rain.. Because the ambient wasn’t constant I can't be 100% sure of the value of the test.
I haven't worked out what the results are telling me.

Plus, I went into manual flash mode and started halving the distance to the subject I forgot to record what I did. :wacky:
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It's always good to try these things out for yourself, but in terms of demonstrating how HSS works in relation to ambient light and shutter speeds, you'll stuggle to better Tim's example.

Apart from the bag of dog food of course, and Tim usually finds more attractive subjects than that (often well fed dogs) but it illustrates the point very well.
 
Apart from the bag of dog food of course, and Tim usually finds more attractive subjects than that (often well fed dogs) but it illustrates the point very well.
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Hmm, I've snapped my fair share of old bags in my time. :D

The question is still about how the OPs mate got better results, if the equipment and some other variables is equal, what had his mate done different. Is Nikon FP more efficient than Canon HSS or do they suffer from the same drawbacks, and have the same advantages ?
 
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Obviously we can't speak for the Nikon setup, but regarding the Canon side of things....

The 580EX has a guide number of 42 when zoomed to 50mm. Shooting at f/5.6 and 100 ISO, as I was, the range for effective illumination would be up to 42/5.6 = 7.5m when fired at or within the sync speed.

There is a distance scale on the back of the 580EX II, which isn't exactly precise, but it will change its range indication as you raise the shutter speed. Here are the points at which the reading alters with the 5D2 and 580EX II at 100 ISO and f/5.6 with lens and zoom at 50mm....

1/200 (sync speed) gives up to 9m of flash range (should be 7.5m in theory, but the scale is imprecise)
1/250 gives up to 4m of range (that's a loss of ~2 stops)
1/320 gives up to 3m of range (that's another stop, for a total of 3)
1/640 gives up to 2m of range (and another, for a total of 4)
1/1250 gives up to 1.5m of range (and another, for a total of 5)
1/2500 gives up to 1m of range (and another, for a total of 6)
1/5000 gives up to 0.7m of range (and another, for a total of 7)

Now this doesn't quite tally up with my results, although it's not miles off, but the trend is very clear. The instant you stick a toe into the HSS waters, even by just 1/3 stop, you quickly lose effective power and it continues to drop off at quite a pace the higher you set the shutter speed.

Now let's say you wanted to shoot a portrait with the 5D2 at 1/400 in order to control ambient. If you choose to use HSS you will lose at least 3 stops of flash power. If instead you were to use an ND 2 filter (1 stop) you could still shoot at the 1/200 sync speed, you'd have got ambient where you wanted it and you'd only have lost 1 stop of power from the flash. That gives a 2 stop advantage over HSS. With that kind of extra power availalbe you could shoot at twice the distance or even throw in a softbox and be no worse off.

Certainly HSS works with the Canon system, but you can see its limitations. I can't think why the Nikon performance should differ significantly when using HSS unless the playing field was not very level.

It's also worth a note that having a camera with a high sync speed can definitely help when shooting outdoors and wanting to crush ambient. At 1/200 the 5D2 (and the Rebel line) is a little on the slow side, slower still with some wireless triggers - I only get 1/160 with mine. The 7D and many others can sync at 1/250, giving a 2 stop advantage over the 5D2 when wishing to shoot at 1/250 with flash and the 1D3 can sync at 1/300, which can pretty much knock off another 1/3 stop from the ambient without losing flash power. There are a few bodies knocking around (Nikon D40 for one) with electronic shutters which can sync at even higher speeds.
 
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This thread has turned into a great and knowledgable discussion thanks guys for your expertise .
 
You're welcome. :)

There is one more trick you can use to achieve shutter speeds above the sync speed, without using HSS, although you can't go too far with it. You need to take the flash off camera so that the camera does not know you are using a flash. Then you set the shutter speed above sync, by a little, and fire your shot. You will get a normal exposure for the ambient, but part of the flash exposure will be obscured by the second curtain dragging across the sensor at the moment the flash fires.

If you shoot a little wide then you can crop this part of the image out. The faster you go with the shutter speed the more of the frame you will lose, which is why you can't go crazy with the shutter speed.

Alternatively, depending how you frame your scene, you can potentially place the shutter shadow over a part of the scene from which there will be no flash light returned. This might be the sky above your subject (need to invert the camera) or anywhere in the distance that will simply not register the flash.

Here is a series of shots to attempt to demonstrate this technique....

20120413_101740_.JPG


The flash is off camera and being triggered wirelessly so the camera is unaware of the flash and is not limiting the shutter speed to the sync speed of 1/200.

The first shot is at 1/160 to keep safely within sync speed when using the wireless triggers.

The second shot is at 1/200 - the sync speed - and appears OK as well, probably due to the close proximity of the trigger and receiver.

The third shot is at 1/250 and we are just above the sync speed. Now you should see a narrow dark band appearing across the bottom of the frame. This is because part of the light reflected from the flash is hitting the second curtain instead of the sensor.

The fourth shot is at 1/320 and the dark band has become thicker, covering about 1/3 of the frame.

The fifth shot is at 1/400 and now we have lost about 1/2 of the frame to curtain shadow.

The sixth shot is at 1/500 and now we have lost at least 2/3 of the frame to curtain shadow.

The seventh shot is also at 1/500 but now I have changed orientation and framed the subject off to one side. You can see that the curtain shadow is over the subject, so this is no good.

In the eighth shot I've dropped the shutter speed back down to 1/400 and now the curtain shadow does not touch the subject at all. We could crop the shadow out and still have a well illuminated subject at twice the sync speed. However, if the scene did not have a foreground (e.g. a half length portrait) and the background was a distant sky instead of a nearby wall there would have been no light returned from the flash by these areas and thus no curtain shadow to be seen at all. We could have achieved a well lit shot at twice the sync speed without resorting to HSS or ND filters and the flash power available for the subject would have been anything up to full strength.

EDIT : and in case it helps the visualisation, I've rotated that last picture through 90 degrees so perhaps it can be more easily seen how you can place the curtain shadow above the subject and over the (imaginary) sky where it would have absolutely no visibility.

20120413_091434_1575_LR.jpg
 
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rcr-photography said:
This thread has turned into a great and knowledgable discussion thanks guys for your expertise .
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:plus1: But a little confusing for the likes of me :thinking: I have a friends wedding to attend at the weekend and thought I would try some outdoor fill flash. So armed with flash bracket and off camera cord I am geared up with my 580EX :D In the past I have used the flash on top the camera and have played with manual settings, ending up with results I was quite happy with, but!! From what I have read online one person is saying leave it on HSS & ETTL for outdoor and the camera will try to ballance out ambient and flash, any other slight adjustments can be made with FEC. If what I understand is correct from reading this thread HSS is nothing but a drain on your batteries. Perhaps reading different articles online is not the thing to do :shrug: So Tim or anyone else, which would be the best method for me to dabble about with fill flash and at the same time save me energy :D
 
To try to put it simply, enabling HSS gives you the freedom to shoot at any shutter speed you like, while using flash, and not be constrained by your sync speed. So long as the subject is within range it requires no thought to use and your creative freedom is unleashed.

The downside is that it is inefficient so your range is reduced. There are alternative approaches which can improve efficiency, but for run and gun shooting they are a hindrance you really don't need. I'm sure you don't want to be fiddling about fitting different strength ND filters or turning the camera upside down for every shot. So let HSS take the strain for you and feel free to worry about something more important. If it means having a few extra sets of batteries then that is a small price to pay for the freedom.

Now, if you were on a photoshoot and taking time to set things up rather than running and gunning then using ND filters and/or other tricks might well be worthwhile to save your flashes and give them more power. A friend's wedding will probably not be like that and I think simplicity will be the order of the day.

In any case, you won't be needing HSS indoors and possibly not outdoors if it is overcast and miserable. However, in bright light you may want to use it if you want larger apertures, Consider Sunny 16 as a starting point. With your sync speed of 1/250 you would need roughly f/10 for a correct exposure of sunlit areas. If you can shoot in open shade you might be able to drop 3 stops or so off that figure, taking you down to f/3.5, which with a 70-200 should get you some nice, shallow DOF without risking a focus faux pas.

The thing is, if you enable HSS it is there when you need it and when you don't the camera/flash will operate in the ordinary way, with the maximum efficiency possible. There isn't really anything to lose by enabling it.

EDIT : Here's a little example at 1/1600, f/4, 100 ISO in sunny conditions with the sun coming from behind. It's no masterpiece, just a snap, and I didn't actually need f/4, but HSS stepped in and did a great job of filling the shadows. You can see the contribution it made by looking at the shadow cast by Dave's camera against his vest. No edits on this.

20110414_111410_4135_LR.jpg


Here's another, this time at 1/6400 and f/2 at 100 ISO. I did boob on the exposure so I've had to tweak it, but even at 1/6400 the flash added some fill and put a sparkle in the eyes, with the sun coming over her shoulder from behind.

20110414_103304_4108_LR.jpg


p.s. Unless you really want to use a flash bracket I'd do without. I have two and I use neither. But it's your choice. :)
 
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tdodd said:
There isn't really anything to lose by enabling it
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That was the bit I was unsure of Tim, thanks for the example (y)
 
Even better example :D
 
u8myufo said:
:plus1: But a little confusing for the likes of me :thinking: I have a friends wedding to attend at the weekend and thought I would try some outdoor fill flash. So armed with flash bracket and off camera cord I am geared up with my 580EX :D In the past I have used the flash on top the camera and have played with manual settings, ending up with results I was quite happy with, but!! From what I have read online one person is saying leave it on HSS & ETTL for outdoor and the camera will try to ballance out ambient and flash, any other slight adjustments can be made with FEC. If what I understand is correct from reading this thread HSS is nothing but a drain on your batteries. Perhaps reading different articles online is not the thing to do :shrug: So Tim or anyone else, which would be the best method for me to dabble about with fill flash and at the same time save me energy :D
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In addition to Tim's excellent replies, you have two questions here.

The one about eTTL and compensation or manual or whatever is just a way of operating, depending mainly on preference and the situation. The result should be the same.

As Tim says, you can't lose with HSS. Once enabled, it will switch itself in and out as necessary and you can carry on shooting as normal.

Almost...! You just need to be aware that HSS uses a lot of power, so range is reduced, recycle times increased, and it will eat batteries at something like a wedding.

So, if you don't need HSS and the shutter speed has just drifted above the normal x-sync ceiling because the light has changed a bit, then raise the f/number or drop ISO to pull it back down again, and you will not suffer any of the downsides.

HSS on a 580EX will be fine for couples and small groups of maybe 4-6 people. Anything larger and with HSS you must group them tightly (as you should anyway really) so you can stay close.

Don't use HSS for bouncing, as it just won't cope, but you'll almost certainly be inside for that so the problem won't arise.
 
During the test shots I did yesterday I found +3 Exposure compensation
made a big difference up to about around 1/1000

And full power on manual gave a touch more power than ettl +3

Here some HSS snaps of mine shot for 4 hours on 2 sets of enloops.
Second set never died. Not very challenging conditions, I should say.

http://s675.photobucket.com/albums/vv117/tm-photos/zombies/
 
tdodd said:
You mean because it's at 1/6400? :D :naughty:
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No because you said you tweaked her Boobs :thinking: Sorry your Boobs :puke: Tim I have just noticed the bit about not using your bracket. So where do you suggest I stick the flashgun? No!! Not there Tim :nono::p Or what is your method?
 
HoppyUK said:
In addition to Tim's excellent replies, you have two questions here.

The one about eTTL and compensation or manual or whatever is just a way of operating, depending mainly on preference and the situation. The result should be the same.

As Tim says, you can't lose with HSS. Once enabled, it will switch itself in and out as necessary and you can carry on shooting as normal.

Almost...! You just need to be aware that HSS uses a lot of power, so range is reduced, recycle times increased, and it will eat batteries at something like a wedding.

So, if you don't need HSS and the shutter speed has just drifted above the normal x-sync ceiling because the light has changed a bit, then raise the f/number or drop ISO to pull it back down again, and you will not suffer any of the downsides.

HSS on a 580EX will be fine for couples and small groups of maybe 4-6 people. Anything larger and with HSS you must group them tightly (as you should anyway really) so you can stay close.

Don't use HSS for bouncing, as it just won't cope, but you'll almost certainly be inside for that so the problem won't arise.
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Cheers Richard I shall keep that in mind also (y)
 
The main purpose of the flash bracket is to keep the flash above the lens so that any shadows cast by the flash fall (almost) invisibly behind the subject and do not make hideous dark patches beside them on the scenery behind. It can also help reduce/eliminate redeye when shooting from a bit of a distance, if you are aiming the flash directly at the subject in dim conditions.

Outdoors you'll be using flash aimed directly at your subjects (since there is usually nothing to bounce from) and it should be subtle enough and blended with the ambient sufficiently that flash shadows ought not to be an issue so it really shouldn't be a big drama where they fall. Ambient ought to be bright enough that redeye will not be a concern.

Indoors I would expect to bounce off something (ceiling/wall) and use a bounce card to throw a little light forward for eye-socket fill and sparkly eyes. See this website for some ideas on how to make a bounce card and how to orient the flash for bouncing....

http://abetterbouncecard.com/

Also check out this website for some great flash tips....

http://neilvn.com/tangents/

If it is impossible to bounce from the environment - ceiling too high or ghastly colours or just too dark to bounce - then a flash bracket could help hide the shadows, but you will still have a hard (small) light source and I think you'd do as well or better with a bounce card. Richard recommends a Lumiquest model. I'm sure he'll chip in with the exact model.

Of course you're perfectly entitled to use a bracket if you wish. I did once think they were a good idea, which is why I have two. I just find they add weight and an extra point of failure (the lead) and you need three hands to support and operate the camera, support/operate the bracket and adjust the zoom. A simple camera and flash is also a lot more compact and you can easily slip the flash in your pocket and leave the camera hanging from the strap when you aren't taking pictures. With a flash bracket you're kind of stuck holding onto the thing or finding somewhere safe to put it down and leave it.
 
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You are right about the awkwardness of the Bracket Tim, I just thought that having it off the top of the camera was the choice most seem to advice on with just one external flash. Another good link as well (y)
 
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