Nikon D810 - thermal noise issue

Gary Coyle said:
So we all accept there is an issue
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I don't.

I've not seen anything so far that my D800 or D610 doesn't do. You will always get a few spots on very long exposures. At 30 seconds though I'm not seeing anything from a D810 so far that I could even begin to describe as a fault. Longer exposures will have some thermal noise... All cameras do this... why else is there a long exposure noise reduction feature? LOL If you could just expose the sensor for as long as you want with impunity, what exactly is the point on long exposure NR? What's it for if not to map out the thermal noise from long exposures? Seems like a stupid feature if thermal noise is a "fault" you have to return it to Nikon for.

The ONLY thing Nikon can do when you return it is map out the hot pixels. Sensors develop more of those as they age though, so what's the point?

Dave Semmens said:
This is still a valid concern



Right - tried it @ 30 seconds with NR off and iso100- until my one and only lens arrives later this week it is about the only type of photo I could take :)


Blacker than a really black thing. I cannot see anything even if I ramp up clarity, sharpening etc.

So no problem here :)
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So that's two "afflicted" cameras behaving normally.
 
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Bored with this whole scenario now so i tried mine. Sigma 50mm F1.4 art @30 seconds, LENR off, iso 100. Can't find anything that I can't replicate on my D4s if I look really hard.
I'm not sending mine back as I don't believe there's anything wrong.
This whole thing has been blown out of proportion by people who want to find fault.
Just enjoy your photography
 
Cowleystjames said:
Bored with this whole scenario now so i tried mine. Sigma 50mm F1.4 art @30 seconds, LENR off, iso 100. Can't find anything that I can't replicate on my D4s if I look really hard.
I'm not sending mine back as I don't believe there's anything wrong.
This whole thing has been blown out of proportion by people who want to find fault.
Just enjoy your photography
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Amen
 
the annoying thing is that people will latch onto this nonsense and then it will affect sell on prices when people thing its a real fault. "thermal noise" the latest in a long line of internet phrases knocked up from people who think they know what theyre looking at.
 
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essexash said:
the annoying thing is that people will latch onto this nonsense and then it will affect sell on prices when people thing its a real fault.
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Which will more than likely mean they buy a newer model instead. Win for Nikon.
 
I've just done exactly the same thing again, but this time two minutes. Guess what? Both Nikons exhibit almost identical noise. Perhaps the D810 is ahead marginally, but it's nothing.
A colleague of mine is going to come over later with his 5dIII and 1Dx and we're going to try those as well.
I'll post results later this evening.
 
Pookeyhead said:
I don't.
.
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But youre not just anybody David, when anyone on this forum refers to "anyone, everyone, normal folk" etc, etc, its a given you dont fall into any group because youre "special needs"

However, there IS an issue, wether or not its an issue that gives you or anyone else cause for concern was what i was alluding to in my post, but then you knew that.

At some level it must concern you because you have taken it upon yourself to waste your time in trying to prove others wrong.
 
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Its an issue in the same way that getting an image when you press the shutter button is an issue.

What exactly is wrong with correcting misinformation? Surely that's a good thing to do?
 
essexash said:
Its an issue in the same way that getting an image when you press the shutter button is an issue.

What exactly is wrong with correcting misinformation? Surely that's a good thing to do?
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Misinformation is something which is wrong, this issue exists. i fully agree with David that its actually a "non issue" per say to many many photographers but even Nikon themselves say theres an issue of some sorts so is it them who are now giving misinformation????

I dont think theres been any misinformation, OK one website has been bloody stupid in trying to replicate the issue with some outlandish post processing but to be fair, if anyone tries what they did and got the same results then they need to give up photography.

Theres no right or wrong here, some users have reported an "issue" when shooting under certain conditions and Nikon are trying to reslove it for them, theyre dammed if they do or dammed if they dont

Photographers are their own worst enemies, they go looking for problems and arent happy until they find one (i dont mean you David)
 
i must admit i only knew about this from a facebook post from wex. it did upset me as although i havent noticed a problem (havent done any long exposures yet) i f i was to do so and the results were poor i'd be seriously annoyed having paid so much for a camera.
my thinking is there must be a genuine issue here otherwise Nikon wouldnt have offered a free fix so quickly. i contacted Nikon who advised they are treating the issue as priority, and turnaround time is 3-5 days.
 
Gary Coyle said:
But youre not just anybody David, when anyone on this forum refers to "anyone, everyone, normal folk" etc, etc, its a given you dont fall into any group because youre "special needs"
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:)

I bet the people in this thread who own one and have tested it don't agree there's an issue either.

The camera just seems to behave exactly as every other camera does. You can replicate the "fault" with any camera.

Just saying.


Gary Coyle said:
Misinformation is something which is wrong, this issue exists. i fully agree with David that its actually a "non issue" per say to many many photographers but even Nikon themselves say theres an issue of some sorts so is it them who are now giving misinformation????
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If it's actually a "non issue" then it's surely not an issue :)

Nikon kind of have to do what they've done, otherwise there will be camera geeks baying for their blood.
 
LOL, you took the comment as it was meant David.

Im not disagreeing with you David but obviously others do see it as an issue, to most its a non issue but to some it is, even those who say its not an issue nor something theyve come across are sending their cameras in for the fix, go figure that one if you can, can you imagine these poor folk trying to sell their used cameras in a years time. "hey buddy, has your camera had the fix" sure has, "OK ill steer clear then, dont want to buy a faulty camera"
 
I never understood why it's resale value is a factor in buying a camera either. Either it's the camera you want, or it isn't. Why are you planning to sell it before you've even bought it? LOL

Oh well... looks like they'll be some bargains around soon for those who realise there's nothing wrong with the damned thing. May pick one up myself. :)
 
I would really like to know the specifics of "the fix."
As I had assumed, and Nikon has indicated, some of "the issue" is just due to trying to deliver the maximum resolution possible (i.e. a "rawer" raw file). Mapping the pixels out would/could be "a negative" in every other use; so that doesn't seem ideal. I would suspect the firmware revision affects primarily jpegs. And even after the fix there may be more evidence of it "than with previous cameras." Maybe early models without the fix will be worth more in the future? ;) (especially considering that LR/ACR has automatic hot pixel mapping).

TBH, I'm not seeing anything I would attribute to greater IQ of the camera, but Ive been shooting hummingbirds in flight and the lens is probably the limiting factor (400 2.8 +TC's). But it sure feels like a better camera than previous D8xx's. And I'm having fewer AF misses.
 
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sk66 said:
I would really like to know the specifics of "the fix."
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They'll just remap the hot pixels. Can't imagine what else would improve anything. Utterly pointless of course as sensors develop more and more thermal noise as they age. Fact.
 
Pookeyhead said:
They'll just remap the hot pixels. Can't imagine what else would improve anything. Utterly pointless of course as sensors develop more and more thermal noise as they age. Fact.
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In that case I'll wait a couple of years for the fix....
 
Nikon certainly aren't just doing a firmware update.
After contact with Nikon UK, they have one technician trained to go through the re calibration process (their words). Note the words 're calibration process'
After talking to said tech regarding being unable to replicate the error found by photography life, he stated that all cameras produce these hot pixels when pushed as stated, and sure enough, I can make my D4s produce similar results to my D810 when set to ISO 100, Lenr off, and an exposure of two minutes,
However, with Lenr on as he suggested, I have no problems with so called hot pixels in either camera.
So may I suggest, part of the process undertaken is an enhancement of Lenr along with sensor calibration?
I am going in to Nikon UK on Tuesday for mine to be 'fixed'. The tech reckons he can get it done within 25 minutes, but wouldn't elaborate on the fix any further.
 
they'll remap it's thermal noise pattern (hot pixels). No harm in it if you are able to take it in yourself and have it done while you wait, but really not worth posting it away for 2 to 4 weeks.
 
Pookeyhead said:
they'll remap it's thermal noise pattern (hot pixels). No harm in it if you are able to take it in yourself and have it done while you wait, but really not worth posting it away for 2 to 4 weeks.
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Agreed, I'm actually going to be close to Richmond on Tuesday which is why I'm going in. I wouldn't post it off to them and trust Royal Mail, between their incompetence and theft record, I'd rather use a bit of petrol!
 
The whole process took 20 minutes and the techy told me he'd remapped the sensor and updated the firmware. Only two techs are qualified to do it at Nikon UK.

I talked to him regarding my inability to replicate the problem causing this furore and he did state that Nikon are jumping on the so called problem to avoid another D600 fiasco, and the recall involves all builds up until the second week of the third quarter (July then!)

Seeing as he seemed chatty, I pushed him on why I couldn't replicate the issue. His answer was that a few builds seem to have had an issue with sensor mapping out of the factory and Nikon have pulled al builds in up to that date. However, not all bodies will be affected only the ones off of one build line, unfortunately serial numbers don't equate with a particular build line.

He was amazingly forthright and perhaps this explains the inability for some owners to replicate the issue.
 
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