Drum scan

AJQS

AJQS

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Alan
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Quite simply, where can I get a drum scan from some 1960s MF negatives? Although my flatbed can scan them, it does a terrible job of it!
 
Well Alan surely if the 60's negs were taken on a cheap camera a drum scanner wont improve them....I've had no problem using a flatbed scanner on my 60's negs and pos.
 
Gosh, it's a bit frightening! I looked at Cheap Drum Scanning, and they charge £12 per medium format picture! I think it's Tim Parkin of On Landscape fame...

I guess if you've gone through the stuff yourself and worked out that These Are The Ones, then it might be worth it to get a really good scan.

What is the problem with your current flatbed scans? Maybe a software solution like ColorPerfect (although IIRC most of your stuff is b&w)?
 
excalibur2 said:
Well Alan surely if the 60's negs were taken on a cheap camera a drum scanner wont improve them....I've had no problem using a flatbed scanner on my 60's negs and pos.
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What makes you think it was shot on a cheap camera?
 
A dedicated film scanner like the Minolta multi pro or the nikon thingies would also do a good job. If you have a lot to scan then it might work out cheaper to buy one, use it and sell it again.

Braun do one like the reflecta for £1200 as well if you don't want to risk an old second hand one. It does around 3000 dpi so it is realistic in its specifications unlike the pricier plustek which isn't much better but costs half as much again nearly.
 
RaglanSurf said:
What makes you think it was shot on a cheap camera?
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Those were the times as many people couldn't afford Rolleis, Blads and so on... for top quality, which would be excellent for drum scanning....and would think Yashicas and similar, a non drum scan would be good enough.
 
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You might be as well getting a pro flatbed scan rather than a drum scan at least in the first instance.
 
excalibur2 said:
Those were the times as many people couldn't afford Rolleis, Blads and so on... for top quality, which would be excellent for drum scanning....and would think Yashicas and similar, a non drum scan would be good enough.
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Brian, you're offering a lot of advice based on nothing other than pure speculation. The original post is asking about drum scanning and you're stating what camera was likely used in the old negatives? Keep in mind that drum scans are not simply about extracting sharpness, but also other details (e.g., shadow detail in slides) that will apply to Yashicas as much as Rolleiflexes or Hasselblads.

Alan Clogwyn said:
Quite simply, where can I get a drum scan from some 1960s MF negatives? Although my flatbed can scan them, it does a terrible job of it!
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I haven't used them, but Better Drum Scanning seems like the best place for drum scans with regard to cost and performance.

The only thing that I would say though is that problems I had previously attributed to my scanner were often due to human errors that arose during the exposure, developing, or scanning stages, and not actually anything to do with the hardware itself. Before seeking out any other hardware or software solutions, perhaps it'd be worth posting a photo or two to see if we can narrow down what's going on?
 
Scanner can't even produce a reasonable contact print size image, yet the real wet printed contact prints can be scanned on the same scanner and enlarge to a reasonable A4. I am not interested in purchasing a scanner, I am only interested in making the highest possible quality scan I can of these for archival reasons, there are only 2 negatives.
 
skysh4rk said:
Brian, you're offering a lot of advice based on nothing other than pure speculation. The original post is asking about drum scanning and you're stating what camera was likely used in the old negatives? Keep in mind that drum scans are not simply about extracting sharpness, but also other details (e.g., shadow detail in slides) that will apply to Yashicas as much as Rolleiflexes or Hasselblads.



I haven't used them, but Better Drum Scanning seems like the best place for drum scans with regard to cost and performance.

The only thing that I would say though is that problems I had previously attributed to my scanner were often due to human errors that arose during the exposure, developing, or scanning stages, and not actually anything to do with the hardware itself. Before seeking out any other hardware or software solutions, perhaps it'd be worth posting a photo or two to see if we can narrow down what's going on?
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...but Alan said "Although my flatbed can scan them, it does a terrible job of it!"...Well I've scanned pos and negs 35mm and 120 from 1960 onwards and some results are crap because the neg is in poor condition, so a drum scanner would not improve on those.
 
excalibur2 said:
...but Alan said "Although my flatbed can scan them, it does a terrible job of it!"...Well I've scanned pos and negs 35mm and 120 from 1960 onwards and some results are crap because the neg is in poor condition, so a drum scanner would not improve on those.
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So now you're assuming because his flatbed didn't do a good job that his negs are rubbish?
 
PMN said:
So now you're assuming because his flatbed didn't do a good job that his negs are rubbish?
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Well you should know that even an Epson 2140 can show what a neg is like of course it might show more noise etc but the subject would still be sharp with a good neg or pos...unless the scanner is faulty. My first use with this 2140 was with fussy Kodachrome and got some great results, but can't remember if it did 120.
Maybe Alan has some prints from his negs which would prove the negs are good....so end of story (y)
 
excalibur2 said:
Well you should know that even an Epson 2140 can show what a neg is like of course it might show more noise etc but the subject would still be sharp with a good neg or pos...unless the scanner is faulty. My first use with this 2140 was with fussy Kodachrome and got some great results, but can't remember if it did 120.
Maybe Alan has some prints from his negs which would prove the negs are good....so end of story (y)
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I'm very much aware of how little can be pulled out of a poor quality neg, Brian. I'm just puzzled as to why you made the assumption that Alan's negs were rubbish quality just because his flatbed didn't do too good a job. I'd rather not make such assumptions before I know for certain personally...
 
PMN said:
I'm very much aware of how little can be pulled out of a poor quality neg, Brian. I'm just puzzled as to why you made the assumption that Alan's negs were rubbish quality just because his flatbed didn't do too good a job. I'd rather not make such assumptions before I know for certain personally...
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Well I never said they were rubbish, but to have something drum scanned I would find out what the quality of negs were and they would have to be top class, as I'm sure you would agree that a Noritisu or Fuji scanner would do.
 
excalibur2 said:
Well I never said they were rubbish, but to have something drum scanned I would find out what the quality of negs were and they would have to be top class, as I'm sure you would agree that a Noritisu or Fuji scanner would do.
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Let's not turn this into a high street scan thread Brian. I know you really, really want to, but let's not. ;)
 
PMN said:
Let's not turn this into a high street scan thread Brian. I know you really, really want to, but let's not. ;)
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:D It should be when to drum scan and when not to.........but if a good lab is in the hight street using excellent scanners (not drum scanners) it would save some money and probably you wouldn't see much difference as you your self said the difference between your drum scanner and flatbed is small.
 
excalibur2 said:
:D It should be when to drum scan and when not to.........but if a good lab is in the hight street using excellent scanners (not drum scanners) it would save some money and probably you wouldn't see much difference as you your self said the difference between your drum scanner and flatbed is small.
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I KNEW it would happen! Actually it hasn't quite happened yet, almost. I could see you there, right there, perched on the edge of your seat like a tightly coiled leopard waiting to pounce on your first opportunity to use the words 'high street', 'Fuji Frontier' and 'bootie' all in the same paragraph... :p

As for to drum scan or not to drum scan, we don't know the condition of the negs so we shouldn't even be moving the conversation into that territory. Alan has asked specifically about drum scanning, nothing more, nothing less
 
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I think Brian that Alan has made it pretty clear that he wants a drum scan so to get the best quality possible for archival reasons, and it's practically impossible to beat a good drum scan for sheer quality. If they are medium format then I doubt that practically any high street photo shops will touch them anyway as they probably won't be set-up for 120 at all.
 
All knowledge is useful whether straight to the point or not as it helps in decisions...Ok then, have the negs drum scanned and it costs what it costs from "better drum scanning" or any other places that would help Alan.
 
Alan Clogwyn said:
Scanner can't even produce a reasonable contact print size image, yet the real wet printed contact prints can be scanned on the same scanner and enlarge to a reasonable A4. I am not interested in purchasing a scanner, I am only interested in making the highest possible quality scan I can of these for archival reasons, there are only 2 negatives.
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Scans aren't archival. The original negatives are though.


Steve.
 
I largely agree with Brian, yes a drum scan might be worth investment and it might be the single solution but asking questions might be able to offer other suggestions, is it worth spending £30+ on the frames if they were taken on a cheap camera for example.
 
s162216 said:
I think Brian that Alan has made it pretty clear that he wants a drum scan so to get the best quality possible for archival reasons, and it's practically impossible to beat a good drum scan for sheer quality. If they are medium format then I doubt that practically any high street photo shops will touch them anyway as they probably won't be set-up for 120 at all.
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Well ok, but in other things like gear, film or whatever we post ideas or alternatives and it probably saves the person money or making a mistake.
 
We don't know if they were taken on a cheap camera! Jeez, why do some people have such a difficult time just answering such a simple question? The guy asked where to have his photos drum scanned, that's it! Why do we have to sit here bringing all kinds of other stuff into the discussion complicating things? It's absolutely infuriating. I don't know the OP but he doesn't exactly seem like a beginner in photography, if he says he wants a drum scan then it's fairly safe to assume that's actually what he wants.
 
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PMN said:
We don't know if they were taken on a cheap camera! Jeez, why do some people have such a difficult time just answering such a simple question? The guy asked where to have his photos drum scanned, that's it! Why do we have to sit here bringing all kinds of other stuff into the discussion complicating things? It's absolutely infuriating. I don't know the OP but he doesn't exactly seem like a beginner in photography, if he says he wants a drum scan then it's fairly safe to assume that's actually what he wants.
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Something to talk about as once a few posts of where to get drum scanning done that's the end ;)Also Alan and members are not the only ones reading this thread (he has probably dozed off or turned to drink ;)) and is general info for lurkers and newbies.
 
PMN said:
We don't know if they were taken on a cheap camera! Jeez, why do some people have such a difficult time just answering such a simple question? The guy asked where to have his photos drum scanned, that's it! Why do we have to sit here bringing all kinds of other stuff into the discussion complicating things? It's absolutely infuriating. I don't know the OP but he doesn't exactly seem like a beginner in photography, if he says he wants a drum scan then it's fairly safe to assume that's actually what he wants.
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Where to get the scan done is resolved pretty quickly, why is still worth asking. Seriously forums go off on tangent, this one especially.
 
Well to get on track, where are all the places to get a neg drum scanned., if no one knows because they haven't personally had it done then the thread ends very quickly. My son had one of my negs professionally done (could have used a drum scanner), enlarged to a print about 12" X 16" fitted to ordinary frame plus a few 10" X 8" thrown in...and the cost was £150, you can have that address in expensive Nottinghill gate, London..... if you like. :eek:
 
excalibur2 said:
Well to get on track, where are all the places to get a neg drum scanned., if no one knows because they haven't personally had it done then the thread ends very quickly. My son had one of my negs professionally done (could have used a drum scanner), enlarged to a print about 12" X 16" fitted to ordinary frame plus a few 10" X 8" thrown in...and the cost was £150, you can have that address in expensive Nottinghill gate, London..... if you like. :eek:
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Abbandon has already kindly offered to scan the frames for Alan. Our drum scanner is still in need of a little attention at the moment so I can't offer to drum scan them, I'll happily scan them on the Screen Cezanne (which I think performs slightly better on neg film than the drum scanner) when I'm back from my holiday in around a month though if needed.
 
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Well I don't know what scanner abbandon has but that's the best idea as he would know, by results, whether to go further for drum scanning. But the thread is confusing as Alan wants the scans for archival reasons, and someone has all ready said "Scans aren't archival. The original negatives are though." so we could go off track by debating which is better film or digital for archival :D:D:D:D
 
excalibur2 said:
someone has all ready said "Scans aren't archival. The original negatives are though."
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That was me. My reason for saying this was based on countless posts on another forums along the lines of "I need to scam my collection of 4,000 slides and negatives....."

My usual response is "Why do you need to scan them?"

By all means have a scan made when you want to do something with it such as have a print made, but scanning just for the sake of having the scans is silly.

Now the OP doesn't mention how many negatives he has so this might be irrelevant if it's just a few, but my views on trying to scan lots of negatives are that given the time it takes, you will quickly get bored with it and probably not do it to the best of your ability. Plus, depending on how many negatives there are and how much spare time you have, it could take years.

I think it's much better to keep the originals as safely as possible and when you need a scan for whatever purpose, do it to the best of your ability or get a good scan done for you on an image by image basis. Doing them as a bulk lot, it will just end up as a chore which you resent doing.

excalibur2 said:
so we could go off track by debating which is better film or digital for archival
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It's digital - but only when recorded as 1s and 0s carved into granite blocks!


Steve.
 
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Well I have a Crossfield Celsis 240 as well but as with most Howtek's that is currently sulking and while the Color Getter II Pro is a beautifully machine I only have the 8 bit software for that as until dongle comes my way it would cost 850 or so for the 16 bit software
 
PMN said:
You're not kidding...
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Look at it this way, you of all people know that a drum scan isn't the only way to get a high quality scan. A couple of questions confirms the op knows that too. Every one is happy, no?
 
Steve Smith said:
That was me. My reason for saying this was based on countless posts on another forums along the lines of "I need to scam my collection of 4,000 slides and negatives....."

My usual response is "Why do you need to scan them?"

By all means have a scan made when you want to do something with it such as have a print made, but scanning just for the sake of having the scans is silly.

Now the OP doesn't mention how many negatives he has so this might be irrelevant if it's just a few, but my views on trying to scan lots of negatives are that given the time it takes, you will quickly get bored with it and probably not do it to the best of your ability. Plus, depending on how many negatives there are and how much spare time you have, it could take years.

I think it's much better to keep the originals as safely as possible and when you need a scan for whatever purpose, do it to the best of your ability or get a good scan done for you on an image by image basis. Doing them as a bulk lot, it will just end up as a chore which you resent doing.



It's digital - but only when recorded as 1s and 0s carved into granite blocks!


Steve.
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Well if you keep the neg as the master then you don't need a drum scan, as the 2nd best scan would be good enough for viewing on a computer, sending emails or posting A4 prints or whatever
 
Steve Smith said:
By all means have a scan made when you want to do something with it such as have a print made, but scanning just for the sake of having the scans is silly.

Now the OP doesn't mention how many negatives he has so this might be irrelevant if it's just a few, but my views on trying to scan lots of negatives are that given the time it takes, you will quickly get bored with it and probably not do it to the best of your ability. Plus, depending on how many negatives there are and how much spare time you have, it could take years.

I think it's much better to keep the originals as safely as possible and when you need a scan for whatever purpose, do it to the best of your ability or get a good scan done for you on an image by image basis. Doing them as a bulk lot, it will just end up as a chore which you resent doing.
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Alan did say (not in the original post) that there were only two negatives that he wanted to get drum scanned, so I think we can assume these are important to him.

Having worked in digital curation and preservation, I take the view that preservation includes access. Partly on that basis (but for other reasons as well, including the sort of interest in one's own past that comes in later life), I undertook a mammoth scanning process of all my early negatives and slides, which worked out at about 150 rolls. There's probably a similar amount not yet done, including a lot of the children growing up ones, that are generally a bit less interesting to me than slides from our NZ tour in 1974, for example. In the process, the original negative and slide packs all got labelled and collected together in one place. I found the process quite an amazing experience, and found out things about my own past that I had completely forgotten. I could certainly never have found some of those things if I had kept the originals in their packets, since I didn't really remember what was there.

I also found that some of the original negatives were in pretty poor condition. I've just looked at a nice shot of my wife (then fiancee) taken in 1973 on Plus-X where the emulsion is cracking in a "patina-like" way. That convinced me that scanning the really old stuff WAS a good idea! I now have an alternative should the negatives deteriorate even further. (We lived in Australia with annual extremes of temperature and humidity, and I didn't take any precautions to look after these negatives at all; I suspect most folk are unlikely to suffer from this sort of damage.)

I agree it isn't for everyone, and it certainly wasn't what the OP was suggesting, but it worked for me. Perhaps you need to be a tiny bit OCD for it to appeal ;)
 
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