A couple of remote triggered camera questions

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Tim
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I've used a remote camera a few times with wireless trigger and fixed focus and it's worked well.

My first question is whether anyone has tried AF and shallower depth of field to get more separation of the subject from the background? I'm thinking of using the Canon R say with face tracking and seeing what happens.

A second question, inspired by a thread on the wildlife area, has anyone used PIR triggered remotes like the camtraptions one for sport? How did it work out?
 
Remote cameras are Hail Mary shots in the first place.

Using AF and a wide aperture would make them pretty much pointless IMO.

You could possibly pre-focus a wide aperture if you had a specific frame in mind AND a fixed point of capture (ie a finish line) but other than that...
 
Remote cameras are Hail Mary shots in the first place.

Using AF and a wide aperture would make them pretty much pointless IMO.

You could possibly pre-focus a wide aperture if you had a specific frame in mind AND a fixed point of capture (ie a finish line) but other than that...
Right, this is the current situation. The new cameras’ AF is so good and so quick it’s making me wonder if it opens up a new possibility. Time to experiment in the garden.
 
Results from some testing at the weekend with Canon R and Camtraptions:
- Wide zone AF with tracking works, seems to pick up the closest subject
- Camtraptions PIR works great as a set-and-forget trigger, noting that it takes a fraction of a second to activate so could miss something very fast if it's next to the camera. Placing it upstream with enough distance so there is time to start the shutter should work.

Also realized during testing that Canon's Electronic Shutter on the R5 does not trigger the flash hot shoe meaning the normal method of remote triggers doesn't work in that shutter mode.

Used it on Sunday, it was fast action so used the e-shutter for the main camera and handheld the trigger. For something slower like a running race finishing line, camtraptions would work well.
 
Also realized during testing that Canon's Electronic Shutter on the R5 does not trigger the flash hot shoe meaning the normal method of remote triggers doesn't work in that shutter mode.
This might mean having a cable in both the remote camera, and the trigger camera in your hand. I spoke with PockerWizard recently and they actually suggest this.


Used it on Sunday, it was fast action so used the e-shutter for the main camera and handheld the trigger. For something slower like a running race finishing line, camtraptions would work well.
I had considered getting a set up like this recently for the cross country champs as something I could stick down and leave for a race. Ended up going the old fashioned route. I think as I couldn't think of any other situations/sports where I could use it I decided against it.


Would certainly be interested to see results from your other experiments with the face tracker and shallow DOF.
 
Hi @Seba,
This might mean having a cable in both the remote camera, and the trigger camera in your hand. I spoke with PockerWizard recently and they actually suggest this.
Please could you explain this a bit more? Is there a way to get the shutter signal output by wire from the trigger camera? Holding the remote trigger in my hand supporting the main camera was awkward. Taping the trigger where I hold it was better but still need to program pressing it at the right moment into the muscle memory.

I had considered getting a set up like this recently for the cross country champs as something I could stick down and leave for a race. Ended up going the old fashioned route. I think as I couldn't think of any other situations/sports where I could use it I decided against it.


Would certainly be interested to see results from your other experiments with the face tracker and shallow DOF.
I think I would use the PIR another time after some more testing. For example, to place a remote out of range from the transmitter and get a greater range of images.

Would certainly be interested to see results from your other experiments with the face tracker and shallow DOF.
On Sunday I hedged my bets with two remotes, one with manual focus and the other with AF, but still an f-stop giving a generous DOF. Here is my favourite from the Canon R using wide zone, and it was not distracted by the debris being thrown around.

full
 
Please could you explain this a bit more? Is there a way to get the shutter signal output by wire from the trigger camera? Holding the remote trigger in my hand supporting the main camera was awkward. Taping the trigger where I hold it was better but still need to program pressing it at the right moment into the muscle memory.
So you have your remote camera set-up away from you, which has a trigger, and a cable plugged in. I was told that using that same set-up will help improve results.

This is what pocketwizard told me.... (I read this a while ago, can't remember it all, but there might be something of use in there!)

"Here's a little background on why you should use a cable on both the hand held and remote, other than the fact the electronic shutter usually disables the hot shoe:

Going from a handheld radio is easy, you just press the test button. The Plus IIIe radios have a special half press function and are our best products for remotely triggering cameras. When you half press the test button on the radio, it's just like half pressing the shutter button on your camera. This makes the camera ready to fire as soon as you press all the way down. the Plus IIIe is the only camera that can both send and receive half press signals but the Plus IVe can receive them from a transmitting Plus IIIe.

If you want to trigger from one camera to another, that can be a little tricky and there are a couple things to know. When a camera gets a signal to fire, it has to say to itself, "am I focused? check! is my exposure ok? check! ok, fire now!", even if everything is set manually. When a flash gets a signal to fire, it says to itself, "oh, fire? Ok, BOOM!"

When you press the test button in your hand, the radio sends out hundreds of packets of information. The physical act of pressing is quite a lot longer than a hot shoe trigger. When you have a radio in a camera's hot shoe, it thinks the radio is a flash. When you are triggering a radio from the camera's hot shoe, it thinks it's just triggering a flash, so it doesn't need very many packets to get the signal out.

That means that the radio on the camera can't always send trigger signals long enough for the camera to focus, confirm exposure, and fire. By the time the camera is ready, the radio is done sending information. That's why manual focus and exposure works best. And honestly, that's what we suggest for remote cameras, plus YOU choose what it focuses on.

There is a slight delay before the remote camera triggers and that is a simple explanation as well. You press the shutter button on the camera in your hand. When the shutter goes, it sends a signal to the receiving radio. That radio then tells the camera to focus and fire. Not quite at the same time, as you can see.

The best solutions is to use a remote camera cable on both cameras with Plus IIIe radios. Normally the transmitting radio doesn't send the trigger till the shutter moves, which is why there's a delay between cameras. With a cable connected to the transmitting Plus IIIe, the radio sends a half press signal to the remote radio while you are half pressing the transmitting camera's shutter button. This "half presses" and pre triggers the remote camera. It's just like half pressing both shutter buttons at once. Then when you fully press, they're firing at (almost) the same time.

This page was created for the Olympics and actually might be helpful, as it's got a lot of tips. You probably know a lot of them already:
https://wiki.pocketwizard.com/index...of_Remote_Camera_Triggering_-_Tips_from_Shawn

END
 
So you have your remote camera set-up away from you, which has a trigger, and a cable plugged in. I was told that using that same set-up will help improve results.

This is what pocketwizard told me.... (I read this a while ago, can't remember it all, but there might be something of use in there!)

"Here's a little background on why you should use a cable on both the hand held and remote, other than the fact the electronic shutter usually disables the hot shoe:

Going from a handheld radio is easy, you just press the test button. The Plus IIIe radios have a special half press function and are our best products for remotely triggering cameras. When you half press the test button on the radio, it's just like half pressing the shutter button on your camera. This makes the camera ready to fire as soon as you press all the way down. the Plus IIIe is the only camera that can both send and receive half press signals but the Plus IVe can receive them from a transmitting Plus IIIe.

If you want to trigger from one camera to another, that can be a little tricky and there are a couple things to know. When a camera gets a signal to fire, it has to say to itself, "am I focused? check! is my exposure ok? check! ok, fire now!", even if everything is set manually. When a flash gets a signal to fire, it says to itself, "oh, fire? Ok, BOOM!"

When you press the test button in your hand, the radio sends out hundreds of packets of information. The physical act of pressing is quite a lot longer than a hot shoe trigger. When you have a radio in a camera's hot shoe, it thinks the radio is a flash. When you are triggering a radio from the camera's hot shoe, it thinks it's just triggering a flash, so it doesn't need very many packets to get the signal out.

That means that the radio on the camera can't always send trigger signals long enough for the camera to focus, confirm exposure, and fire. By the time the camera is ready, the radio is done sending information. That's why manual focus and exposure works best. And honestly, that's what we suggest for remote cameras, plus YOU choose what it focuses on.

There is a slight delay before the remote camera triggers and that is a simple explanation as well. You press the shutter button on the camera in your hand. When the shutter goes, it sends a signal to the receiving radio. That radio then tells the camera to focus and fire. Not quite at the same time, as you can see.

The best solutions is to use a remote camera cable on both cameras with Plus IIIe radios. Normally the transmitting radio doesn't send the trigger till the shutter moves, which is why there's a delay between cameras. With a cable connected to the transmitting Plus IIIe, the radio sends a half press signal to the remote radio while you are half pressing the transmitting camera's shutter button. This "half presses" and pre triggers the remote camera. It's just like half pressing both shutter buttons at once. Then when you fully press, they're firing at (almost) the same time.

This page was created for the Olympics and actually might be helpful, as it's got a lot of tips. You probably know a lot of them already:
https://wiki.pocketwizard.com/index...of_Remote_Camera_Triggering_-_Tips_from_Shawn

END
Thank you, that's really helpful.

I'm using Yongnuo RF605s which have been reliable with a good range. I've wired the trigger camera as described for the Pocket Wizard and in electronic shutter mode with the Canon R, it's not sending a signal. I'll have a look at switching to PW.
 
So you have your remote camera set-up away from you, which has a trigger, and a cable plugged in. I was told that using that same set-up will help improve results.

This is what pocketwizard told me.... (I read this a while ago, can't remember it all, but there might be something of use in there!)

"Here's a little background on why you should use a cable on both the hand held and remote, other than the fact the electronic shutter usually disables the hot shoe:

Going from a handheld radio is easy, you just press the test button. The Plus IIIe radios have a special half press function and are our best products for remotely triggering cameras. When you half press the test button on the radio, it's just like half pressing the shutter button on your camera. This makes the camera ready to fire as soon as you press all the way down. the Plus IIIe is the only camera that can both send and receive half press signals but the Plus IVe can receive them from a transmitting Plus IIIe.

If you want to trigger from one camera to another, that can be a little tricky and there are a couple things to know. When a camera gets a signal to fire, it has to say to itself, "am I focused? check! is my exposure ok? check! ok, fire now!", even if everything is set manually. When a flash gets a signal to fire, it says to itself, "oh, fire? Ok, BOOM!"

When you press the test button in your hand, the radio sends out hundreds of packets of information. The physical act of pressing is quite a lot longer than a hot shoe trigger. When you have a radio in a camera's hot shoe, it thinks the radio is a flash. When you are triggering a radio from the camera's hot shoe, it thinks it's just triggering a flash, so it doesn't need very many packets to get the signal out.

That means that the radio on the camera can't always send trigger signals long enough for the camera to focus, confirm exposure, and fire. By the time the camera is ready, the radio is done sending information. That's why manual focus and exposure works best. And honestly, that's what we suggest for remote cameras, plus YOU choose what it focuses on.

There is a slight delay before the remote camera triggers and that is a simple explanation as well. You press the shutter button on the camera in your hand. When the shutter goes, it sends a signal to the receiving radio. That radio then tells the camera to focus and fire. Not quite at the same time, as you can see.

The best solutions is to use a remote camera cable on both cameras with Plus IIIe radios. Normally the transmitting radio doesn't send the trigger till the shutter moves, which is why there's a delay between cameras. With a cable connected to the transmitting Plus IIIe, the radio sends a half press signal to the remote radio while you are half pressing the transmitting camera's shutter button. This "half presses" and pre triggers the remote camera. It's just like half pressing both shutter buttons at once. Then when you fully press, they're firing at (almost) the same time.

This page was created for the Olympics and actually might be helpful, as it's got a lot of tips. You probably know a lot of them already:
https://wiki.pocketwizard.com/index...of_Remote_Camera_Triggering_-_Tips_from_Shawn

END


I've been preaching the same for a few years but explained differently (and a lot quicker :p )...

The hotshoe mount send out pulse signals to trigger what it thinks is a flash, whereas the N3/Sync port sends out a continuous signal as long as the shutter is depressed.

You can easily see this if you hold a disconnected Rx unit in your hand and trigger the unit with a Tx firstly connected just via the hotshoe and then cabled.

In the first case the Rx receive signal will pulse. In the second it will a a solid signal.

This becomes absolutely vital when you are using cameras with different FPS because if you just use the hotshoe, the cameras will be out of sync and you will droop frames.
 
Yeah, it's a bit of a long winded explanation, but makes sense.

Sorry Tim, I just assumed you were on PWs.

I have the slightly older PW Plus 3's, and have undated the firmware to the 'E Release' version, but strangely this doesn't let me shoot with Plus 3e versions. I don't know why.

I shoot on the RxLR mode, and have seen big improvements. I do not use the trigger cable in my handheld camera.
 
I've been preaching the same for a few years but explained differently (and a lot quicker :p )...

The hotshoe mount send out pulse signals to trigger what it thinks is a flash, whereas the N3/Sync port sends out a continuous signal as long as the shutter is depressed.

You can easily see this if you hold a disconnected Rx unit in your hand and trigger the unit with a Tx firstly connected just via the hotshoe and then cabled.

In the first case the Rx receive signal will pulse. In the second it will a a solid signal.

This becomes absolutely vital when you are using cameras with different FPS because if you just use the hotshoe, the cameras will be out of sync and you will droop frames.
Yeah, it's a bit of a long winded explanation, but makes sense.

Sorry Tim, I just assumed you were on PWs.

I have the slightly older PW Plus 3's, and have undated the firmware to the 'E Release' version, but strangely this doesn't let me shoot with Plus 3e versions. I don't know why.

I shoot on the RxLR mode, and have seen big improvements. I do not use the trigger cable in my handheld camera.
Thanks both, I'll look again through my box of cables, I think I understand now.
 
I'm slightly confused. Like you I'm still on PWIIIs but they definitely transmit 'half-press'.

What's different about the PWIIIe?
 
I'm slightly confused. Like you I'm still on PWIIIs but they definitely transmit 'half-press'.

What's different about the PWIIIe?

I think, or was lead to believe, the 3e version just had the updated firmware, 'E Release' already built in.

Have to say the battery life of the triggers is MUCH better with the new firmware. That, and the RxLR mode have been the biggest/best differences.
 
PS my problem could be the cable for the trigger camera - I don't have a sync cable with a 2.5mm end so attaching an adapter might be the issue. I'll try getting the proper cable.
 
I think, or was lead to believe, the 3e version just had the updated firmware, 'E Release' already built in.

Have to say the battery life of the triggers is MUCH better with the new firmware. That, and the RxLR mode have been the biggest/best differences.


Hmmm. Maybe I have got the 'e' version then because mine already has the Long Range Rx? Any idea how I can tell?
 
With the Sony's and electronic shutter you need a cable in both cameras and it won't shoot from the hot shoe as you can't use flash with electronic shutter. The cable gets a signal from the multiport and sends it to the PW. Works with Plus 3s and cheap cables from ebay but I ended up just getting a foot trigger. With the foot trigger you only need a modern pocketwizard for the camera and can use an old one for the foot trigger. Wish I had worked that out as I have about 8 old Calumet triggers that work on the same frequencies as PWs and can be used with them.

You need a special cable with the Sonys for half press. Not sure for other brands
 
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Hmmm. Maybe I have got the 'e' version then because mine already has the Long Range Rx? Any idea how I can tell?
Connect your PW to your computer and then run the PW Utility program from their website. Seems like a 1.x firmware is the "legacy" version, with 2.x the E release.

(Though testing my own comment above, I'm not sure how my firmware is 2.700 whereas the latest firmware for 3e is 2.505......... :oops: :$)
 
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