Advice needed on which head, please?....

RedRobin

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Needs to be lightweight because I'm a walkabout type of wildlife photographer rather than sitting in a hide all day. Might be mounting it on a Gitzo Systematic carbon tripod. I'm a Canon DSLR user, amateur wildlife stills only, no video.

Regarding gimbals, I prefer the open 'L' rather than the 'U' type. Not side mounting. It needs to be able to lock solid.

So far, the contenders are....

1) - Sirui PH-20.

2) - Jobu Jr.3.

3) - Wimberley?

Thanks for any advice

EDIT :
This thread develops into a discussion about which ball head to use on a monopod and consequently offers some good advice from experienced TP members.

:)
 
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Unless you are using one of the big white primes I would suggest not and either a monopod or handheld.
Very restrictive and can be more hassle than help IMHO of course.
 
Lensmaster would probably be the lightest, made in the UK, and get good reports ... good price as well

LINK

I have the Jobu Black Widow LW, well made has served me well for years, however if I replaced it I would think of getting the Lensmaster
 
Thanks, Neil. I already use a Manfrotto monopod but think I would benefit from a more 'fluid' head. I can handhold 1,865 g white lens + 7D2 but not for long periods.

I think you may be right about the potential hassle (not to mention the major expense of a Gitzo Systematic tripod) which is why I have been thinking of just getting a Gimbal head first and seeing how that is on my very robust monopod.

If I do get a Gimbal it must be able to lock down so I can also use it on my lightweight tripod with my macro lens. My insect subjects move around quickly.

I found a camera shop not too far away which has a Sirui PH-20 in stock so I could take my gear in and see how it might work on my monopod but I do see your point about how a tripod can be restrictive and walking around with the tripod legs extended but folded tends to scare dragonflies away and also get snagged in undergrowth.
 
Lensmaster would probably be the lightest, made in the UK, and get good reports ... good price as well

LINK

I have the Jobu Black Widow LW, well made has served me well for years, however if I replaced it I would think of getting the Lensmaster

....Thanks, Martyn - I looked at the Lensmaster (online) and it doesn't lock down and I would need a gimbal to lock solid on some occasions (such as close-ups).

The Jobu's have an excellent reputation and their Jr.3 would suit my purposes - I need to double check it locks down but I know the Sirui does.

Btw, I noticed an excellent dragonfly in flight shot in another thread while searching TP about gimbals before starting this thread. With over 1,700 members I don't know if you are already a member on the facebook group which I admin:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/561222590593478/
 
Unless you are using one of the big white primes I would suggest not and either a monopod or handheld.
Very restrictive and can be more hassle than help IMHO of course.

Agreed, I use my 400mm f/2.8 with my D800 90% of the time now handheld even for birds in flight etc. The tripods and heads are very restrictive, I would say stick with a monopod at the most if anything...
 
I went through the same thing a few months ago. Tried a couple (from Amazon) and ended up going for the Wimberley Mk2. It's very expensive but compared to the Benro and Manfrotto it is better (but it should be at the price)
You can try and return on Amazon quite easily ;)

Agree with Neil that a tripod can be hard to manage and I have happily handheld my old 300 F2.8 and would probably not have thought of getting a tripod before upgrading to my 500mm.

It takes time to get used to carrying the camera / lens on a tripod - I am just starting to get used to it. If you do a lot of shooting from fixed locations then they are great but if you mainly wander around and see what pops up then they are fiddly. Not easy to use in a hide either (the bigger public hides).

I don't get on with monopods - I find that if I stand in a location for more than 5 minutes then my lower back gives me some real grief. I have problems with my back anyway - so it may not be a problem for others.

Dave.
 
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....Thanks, Martyn - I looked at the Lensmaster (online) and it doesn't lock down and I would need a gimbal to lock solid on some occasions (such as close-ups).

The Jobu's have an excellent reputation and their Jr.3 would suit my purposes - I need to double check it locks down but I know the Sirui does.

Btw, I noticed an excellent dragonfly in flight shot in another thread while searching TP about gimbals before starting this thread. With over 1,700 members I don't know if you are already a member on the facebook group which I admin:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/561222590593478/

I don't do facebook Robin ... was that one of my Dragonfly shots ?

My Jobu Blackwidow will lock down, not that I ever do when I am doing close ups of Dragonflies and Butterflies
 
I don't do facebook Robin ... was that one of my Dragonfly shots ?

My Jobu Blackwidow will lock down, not that I ever do when I am doing close ups of Dragonflies and Butterflies

....Yes, was one of your dragons in flight shots - A Hawker but don't remember right now if Southern or Migrant or another Hawker.

Must dash.... Off to Lodmoor RSPB as the weather is looking promising. Thanks everyone - I'll reply tonight.

:)
 
I'd agree with Neil and the others that a tripod and gimbal for lenses other than the big heavy primes can be more trouble than they're worth. For the big primes then they are worth using in some situations. If i don't have my gimbal and tripod I use a light monopod and waist belt with my 500 and find that this set up is a decent compromise.

I'd rather use a decent ballhead for close ups and macro and for lighter lenses like the 100-400 MkII.
 
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I find using a tripod over-shoulder with kit attached works well for me, I've tried a number of different gimbals and all had there problems until I picked up a 2nd hand Wimberley Mk1 (with Arca head) for around £100 and it meets my needs perfectly.
 
It's only one of the side mount ones, but I've never had a moments issue with my Benro gimbal head. My dad has one of the LensMasters, and it definitely comes across as clunky by comparison.
 
I use a Benro GH-2 the few times I actually use the big tripod/gimbal. I use the UniqBall head most other times I've got a tripod or clamp out in the field.
But I mostly *handhold* using my SharpShooter Camera Mount (rifle stock)... sometimes (rarely) mounting it on a monopod or tripod.
 
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One thing to point out. When it comes to gimbal heads for heavy lenses there's the best ( wimberley) and then the rest which while being cheaper aren't as good.
 
I have a Benro GH2 and a Wimberley - maybe I got lucky but there's not much between them in quality, the Wimberley does "glide" a bit smoother.
 
I went from a Manfrotto 393 to a Wimberley, and my keeper rate shot up straight away. I wont knock the 393, its value for money and does its job, but the difference is clear when you use the Wimberley, its clear why it costs more, its all down to quality, you get what you pay for.
 
I'd rather use a decent ballhead for close ups and macro and for lighter lenses like the 100-400 MkII.


....I generally don't get on with ballheads as I find that they are either too loose or too tight. But I have a Manfrotto 324RC2 which is a 'grip ballhead' giving much better leverage and control, on a lightweight carbon Manfrotto MT293C4 which is only suitable for mounting my 100mm Macro on. But even this 'grip ballhead' isn't ideal and hence my interest in a gimbal - I need to try one out in a shop and also on my monopod.
 
I went from a Manfrotto 393 to a Wimberley, and my keeper rate shot up straight away. I wont knock the 393, its value for money and does its job, but the difference is clear when you use the Wimberley, its clear why it costs more, its all down to quality, you get what you pay for.

....A friend has the Manfrotto 393 and I don't like the 'U' type as it's more awkward getting the lens+camera on and off the tripod.

If gimbal cost equates to quality, then the Sirui PH-20 is going to be as good as a Wimberley but Wimberley are much better established. The Sirui has a 6-year guarantee which bodes well.

SIRUI PH-20: http://en.zssirui.com/productseries.php?productclassid=44
 
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I would like to thank everybody for all the helpful info they have posted so far :)

I spent about 5 hrs out yesterday photographing birds and shot just over 690 images, mostly on my monopod, and while out and armed with the info I read here I imagined how or IF a gimbal would be an improvement or not. I'm not sure until I visit a shop and try things out but theoretically the gimbal will be smoother.

I use a Manfrotto 804RC2 stubby lever 3-way head on my monopod and it works well enough with my Canon 400mm F/5.6 L which weighs 1,250 g but the new 100-400mm II weighs 1,640 g and so until I get one I don't know how it will balance. Hence my early consideration of gimbals on my monopod.

One thing is clear at this stage - I don't need to buy a sturdier tripod yet, if indeed I ever will need to.
 
I have a Benro GH2 and a Wimberley - maybe I got lucky but there's not much between them in quality, the Wimberley does "glide" a bit smoother.

I also went with a Benro GH2 for my 200-400 and haven't regretted it. I'm sure the Wimberleys are better but £400/500 better? Not sure :\

So far my experience with it has been great if you're sure about where you'll be shooting towards but you can get caught out if there's a sudden need to shoot much higher or lower or far left/right from how you're setup.
 
For the 100-400 MkII handheld is definitely the best option. I wouldn't even bother sticking it on a monopod unless I were shooting video.

You want a good ballhead. Those pistol-grippy things are total rubbish. A decent ballhead shouldn't be too tight or too loose, you should be able to set the friction to enable smooth movement with no droop when you get on target.

A gimbal is great for big lenses. But even my 300 f2.8 is handheld more often that on the tripod. And a gimbal on a monopod is just totally unbalanced. The whole point of a gimbal is so that you can position the lens with the lightest of touches and the lens stays there. That ain't gonna happen unless the base is stable - not a property one associates with monopods.
 
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I would like to thank everybody for all the helpful info they have posted so far :)

I spent about 5 hrs out yesterday photographing birds and shot just over 690 images, mostly on my monopod, and while out and armed with the info I read here I imagined how or IF a gimbal would be an improvement or not. I'm not sure until I visit a shop and try things out but theoretically the gimbal will be smoother.

I use a Manfrotto 804RC2 stubby lever 3-way head on my monopod and it works well enough with my Canon 400mm F/5.6 L which weighs 1,250 g but the new 100-400mm II weighs 1,640 g and so until I get one I don't know how it will balance. Hence my early consideration of gimbals on my monopod.

One thing is clear at this stage - I don't need to buy a sturdier tripod yet, if indeed I ever will need to.

My Sigma 120-300 2.8 weighs in at double that @ 3,390g and on a blackrapid strap and you hardly know it's there, i do have a arca plate on the bottom as well so the monopod is just a walking stick most of the time.
Best thing i did was to stop using my tripod, i also find it a whole lot better for using binoculars with both hands free whilst walking.
 
For the 100-400 MkII handheld is definitely the best option. I wouldn't even bother sticking it on a monopod unless I were shooting video.

You want a good ballhead. Those pistol-grippy things are total rubbish. A decent ballhead shouldn't be too tight or too loose, you should be able to set the friction to enable smooth movement with no droop when you get on target.

A gimbal is great for big lenses. But even my 300 f2.8 is handheld more often that on the tripod. And a gimbal on a monopod is just totally unbalanced. The whole point of a gimbal is so that you can position the lens with the lightest of touches and the lens stays there. That ain't gonna happen unless the base is stable - not a property one associates with monopods.

Excellent post from Frank - agree 100%. M'frotto pistol grips are very fast at getting approximate positioning, but have no other virtues. A gimbal on a monopod is a contradiction - IMHO, don't go there.

There are good monopod heads about (RRS, Hejnar, SunwayFoto, Custom Brackets) but TBH I prefer a good ball head. Have a look at Feisol CB-40D (deceptively strong, light, great value); Manfrotto 468MG Hydrostatic (superb, very solid and with excellent fine friction adjustment, but getting heavy). Then there's my favourite and the one I use, Arca-Swiss P0, that's amazingly good for small size/weight, has excellent friction control, works particularly well on a monopod (you really need to try it) but a bit pricey and for normal lenses, ie without a tripod collar, it works better with an L-bracket on the camera (y)
 
Monopod - ball head definitely...

On my Manfrotto 55 I have the Benro GH2 and it is excellent for birding - I use Pentax gear with Sigma 150-500 or DA*300 +1.4 or Nikon with 300f4 +1.7.

I echo Hoppy UK. Gimbal on monopod is a recipe for disaaaster.
 
I personally use the Kirk BH-1 with wimberley sidekick,i find this suits me fine, getting used to the sidemount comes easy..
Also more flexible and easy to remove the sidemount,leaving the ballhead..
 
Yes, I'm going to take everyone's advice not to use a gimbal on a monopod. < Following subsequent posts I am now going back to the idea of combining the right monopod with the right gimbal head.

I really don't like conventional ballheads though and like my Manfrotto 'joystick grip' ballhead - It's much faster to find a position to lock which is critical when shooting close-ups of dragonflies etc which move and are often at low level as the example...



70DManfrotto_00936.jpg


^ I now know that it's best not to use the centre column up unless I can't achieve the height any other way, but sometimes it's the quickest way to gain height.

On my monopod I'll stick with my Manfrotto 3-way stubby lever Manfrotto 804RC2 head.
 
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FWIW I shelled out on a Whimberley Sidemount and have used it on a monopod (even considering getting a Neotec 685B to improve overall handling). My reasoning for getting it was because I also wander around looking for the subjects and sometimes when I find one I will acquire focus and wait for the "moment" and depending on my level of fatigue I started to lose muscle tone :( The Gimbal & monopod combo allows for standing and waiting with much reduced stress on the joints and muscles IMO.

Incidently, I found this article over at LuLa that echoes in general terms my so far limited experience http://www.luminous-landscape.com/techniques/gimbal___monopod.shtml and I recommend you watch the video ;)

Oh and the Whimberley locks down solid when/if required.......such as when you rest the lens on your shoulder when moving locations.

PS ~ @robin - nice capture of the Damsel :)
 
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Hi Robin
clear.png

agree with you about the pistol grip head for macro I use mine for tripod macro stuff
it's great I can easily make small adjustments to framing and its very stable
I think mine is called the RC2
I use a monopod with my 300 2.8 its much easier to use that way especially after a few hours
I use a quick release head that moves two ways forward and backwards
its an eBay cheapie made by kiwiphoto its not quite up to the weight of the big lens tho and am looking for something more heavy duty
 
I got the bento gh2, we added or replaced the lubrication, and its smoother now :D
 
Nice Damsel image Robin ... whatever works for you mate, everyone is different :)
 
On my Gitzo monopod, I use this RRS head, and find it really quick to use and adjust.

http://www.reallyrightstuff.com/Sho...R-head-with-standard-lever-release-clamp.html

I have Arca style plates on all my longer lenses and have modified my gimbal (Wimberly) on a Gitzo tripod to have the lever type clamp as shown in the link above, for me it gives a quick positive lock instead of the fiddly screw, and I find the RRS gear to be superbly built.

I realise it's expensive, but it is a one off purchase and I hope never to have to replace it....and a good support makes all the difference!

George.
 
Hi Robin
clear.png

agree with you about the pistol grip head for macro I use mine for tripod macro stuff
it's great I can easily make small adjustments to framing and its very stable
I think mine is called the RC2


....Hi Pete,
'RC2' refers to the removable plate. All Manfrotto heads which that plate fits, have 'RC2' in their product code.

I have attached my cable release to my small lightweight tripod with a cable-tie so that it's constantly accessible - You can see it in my posted pic earlier. Although that was when I had a Canon 70D and I now have a 7D Mark II which takes a different cable release. But it's all the same principle.
 
For the 100-400 MkII handheld is definitely the best option. I wouldn't even bother sticking it on a monopod unless I were shooting video.

You want a good ballhead. Those pistol-grippy things are total rubbish. A decent ballhead shouldn't be too tight or too loose, you should be able to set the friction to enable smooth movement with no droop when you get on target.

A gimbal is great for big lenses. But even my 300 f2.8 is handheld more often that on the tripod. And a gimbal on a monopod is just totally unbalanced. The whole point of a gimbal is so that you can position the lens with the lightest of touches and the lens stays there. That ain't gonna happen unless the base is stable - not a property one associates with monopods.

....I don't entirely agree with everything you are saying I'm afraid, but I am very grateful for your input, Frank :)

Personally, I have used conventional ballheads and only like Manfrotto's joystick-grip version which I find to be very helpful on a low tripod for macro and close-ups - I don't like it on my monopod. I use my Macro lens and small tripod almost exclusively for close-ups of dragonflies and insects etc.

I agree that the ideal for the 100-400mm will be handheld but there are many occasions when being able to quickly mount such a lens on a monopod will get you the shot. For example, on Monday when out with my Canon 400mm F/5.6 L I came across a Grey Heron taking an afternoon snooze and so his head was mostly buried in his plumage and partly hidden. Consequently I had to wait for him (or her) to present a better view for me and the monopod took all the weight and maintained my composition while I patiently waited quite some time.

Usually you do see gimbals only with big lenses but if you use a lightweight one such as the carbon Sirui or Jobu, there is no reason why it shouldn't work well on a good monopod, as @Box Brownie reports and his posted link supports.

One-finger control of a gimbal on a fixed tripod base is only one use and a gimbal has additional potential due to its fluidity and balance.
 
FWIW I shelled out on a Whimberley Sidemount and have used it on a monopod (even considering getting a Neotec 685B to improve overall handling). My reasoning for getting it was because I also wander around looking for the subjects and sometimes when I find one I will acquire focus and wait for the "moment" and depending on my level of fatigue I started to lose muscle tone :( The Gimbal & monopod combo allows for standing and waiting with much reduced stress on the joints and muscles IMO.

Incidently, I found this article over at LuLa that echoes in general terms my so far limited experience http://www.luminous-landscape.com/techniques/gimbal___monopod.shtml and I recommend you watch the video ;)

Oh and the Whimberley locks down solid when/if required.......such as when you rest the lens on your shoulder when moving locations.

PS ~ @robin - nice capture of the Damsel :)

....You have described perfectly and exactly how I most often shoot and why I usually take a monopod with me. The link you posted also now convinces me that a gimbal is likely to be very helpful to me. With most wildlife it's all about speed and the only time I want to be twisting/turning knobs or levers is when locking down.

But, it is all as gramps says:

... whatever works for you mate, everyone is different :)
 

....Hi Pete,
'RC2' refers to the removable plate. All Manfrotto heads which that plate fits, have 'RC2' in their product code.

I have attached my cable release to my small lightweight tripod with a cable-tie so that it's constantly accessible - You can see it in my posted pic earlier. Although that was when I had a Canon 70D and I now have a 7D Mark II which takes a different cable release. But it's all the same principle.


Ahh I see thanks Robin , brain isn't functioning I'm on nights!
I bought my pistol grip head on here second hand it did come with a remote trigger built in, your idea of attaching it to the tripod is a great idea
 
On my Gitzo monopod, I use this RRS head, and find it really quick to use and adjust.

http://www.reallyrightstuff.com/Sho...R-head-with-standard-lever-release-clamp.html

I have Arca style plates on all my longer lenses and have modified my gimbal (Wimberly) on a Gitzo tripod to have the lever type clamp as shown in the link above, for me it gives a quick positive lock instead of the fiddly screw, and I find the RRS gear to be superbly built.

I realise it's expensive, but it is a one off purchase and I hope never to have to replace it....and a good support makes all the difference!

George.

....Thanks, George - You have just convinced me as a first step to think of selling my Manfrotto monopod which weighs more than a Gitzo carbon GM5561T which only weighs 1.7 lbs. Carbon is also much warmer to the touch as I wear fingerless gloves in the winter. Gitzo are a brand I feel one can rely on. I best pay for my 100-400mm new lens first though!
 
I really don't see the benefit of a gimbal on a monopod. IMHO, there's not a lot of benefit to a head at all. Panning is achieved by the monopod pivoting on it's foot and tilt/roll is achieved by leaning the monopod (just put your foot against the monopod's foot to stabilize it if needed).
I don't even like a 3way/or ballhead on a monopod... if it's set loose enough to allow it to reposition for fast work, it quickly gets all out of whack. And if it's locked down what is it really doing for you? I do have a Sirui L-10 tilt head that I use on the monopod; but IMO it is a pretty significant expense for little benefit in most situations.
 
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I really don't see the benefit of a gimbal on a monopod. IMHO, there's not a lot of benefit to a head at all. Panning is achieved by the monopod pivoting on it's foot and tilt/roll is achieved by leaning the monopod (just put your foot against the monopod's foot to stabilize it if needed).

:agree:
 
I use a Feisol monopod CM-1471(i think) and a Kirk 2" quick release clamp works perfectly and very light set up
 
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