Canon 7d11

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tray271 said:
as I said I already owned a 1dx and yes it was fast so I know what im talking about...all im getting a cross is everyone is getting milked .small upgrades..for god sake how old is the cmos bayer sensor ..and as for the uk price of £1519 crazy..i bet any money the dynamic range will be average at best ..the sensor will still have artifacts ..big deal if its got less noise at high iso ..just get a 6d..and to phil v im not saying im an expert im just pointing out the facts...SAME OLD SENSOR TECH ...
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cmos sensor cmos sensor cmos sensor. That seems to be all you talk about in your posting history too. Sorry you're so bored of the cmos sensor. You could just enjoy taking photos instead of whinging about the cmos sensor?

There's a lot more to upgrade on a camera than the sensor and a lot more to judge a camera by. It's the last thing i wanted upgraded from my 7D.

No one suggested they are giving us a new type of tech, just astounded that YOU expected it. Especially in a camera that's not the top of Canon's range.
No one is getting milked. The 7D mk2 is the camera i've had in my head since i owned a 20D

You'd do well to try and get over this sensor obsession you have...
 
you go ahead and get one and enjoy old sensor tech...and make sure you buy from the uk and you will be getting milked again..end of conversation
 
For comparison, can you show a picture from your phase one compared to one you have taken on your old tech canon?
 
tray271 said:
you go ahead and get one and enjoy old sensor tech...and make sure you buy from the uk and you will be getting milked again..end of conversation
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Thankyou, i will. Maybe 2 bodies, or 3 - one for the bathroom too :)
Enjoy your new sensor tech! Just be careful about it becoming old again :eek: :runaway:
 
Have you seen the price of the phase one?
Differrent to that of a 7D 2.
 
tray271 said:
hi everyone,am I the only one who thinks the Quattro is a tiny bit disappointing...ive downloaded most of the raw files off the web and none of them seem to have the pop and micro contrast of the dp2 Merrill and dp 3...I was tempted to get it but I think I will just wait until canon announcement in September..sigma Im disappointed
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Well I guess there's just no pleasing some folks. I believe the word is 'Doh'.
 
I'm sure Canon know their market for the 7d2 and it'll appeal to many but the new features don't jump out at me - although I'm interested in how the new sensor and AF system perform.

I kinda know what tray271 means though. I've got a 7d and 5d2 but added a sigma dp3 merrill not that long ago and if I could combine the detail of that merrill sensor (and I'm also disappointed with the quattro in comparison) with the usability of my 7d or 5d2 (and still use the lenses I already have..) then I'd do it without hesitation. It wouldn't suit everyone but it would appeal more to me (and maybe only me) than the new 7d2 has so far.
 
stu.artd said:
I'm sure Canon know their market for the 7d2 and it'll appeal to many but the new features don't jump out at me - although I'm interested in how the new sensor and AF system perform.

I kinda know what tray271 means though. I've got a 7d and 5d2 but added a sigma dp3 merrill not that long ago and if I could combine the detail of that merrill sensor (and I'm also disappointed with the quattro in comparison) with the usability of my 7d or 5d2 (and still use the lenses I already have..) then I'd do it without hesitation. It wouldn't suit everyone but it would appeal more to me (and maybe only me) than the new 7d2 has so far.
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Ironically, you could argue it's Sigma that has robbed Foveon of any chance of success. Sigma owns all the key patents, blocking the likes of Canon and others from developing it, but Sigma lacks sufficient resources to realise Foveon's full potential on its own.

And it's not as if Foveon is some kind of miracle sensor. It has one fundamental advantage - higher effective pixel count, and therefore greater potential resolution. And one fundamental disadvantage - poor high ISO performance. They're two sides of the same coin.

But given that we're hardly short of megapixels with Bayer/CMOS sensors these days, I know which I prefer.
 
Jackwow said:
Well I want a 7D Mk 2, to replace my 7D Mk 1. Does anyone know when they will actually be generally available to buy without pre-ordering.
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I've seen November 17th mentioned in a couple of articles and several just said "November". In time for Christmas anyway (not that anyone is going to drop £1500 on my Xmas present, except perhaps myself).
 
Michael D Beckwith said:
Talking about CMOS sensor cameras, aren't Hasselblad now releasing a CMOS based camera?
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Sony has released a medium format CMOS sensor that all manufacturers are jumping on, replacing the old Kodak CCDs that are almost as old as digital itself. Much better ISO performance.

But to call it medium format is a bit of a misnomer. Medium format film is roughly 3x the area of full-frame (round figures), whereas the Sony sensor is only about half that.
 
mipevo6 said:
Some image samples and a comparison engine to compare your faveorite camera including the 7D2

http://www.imaging-resource.com/new...shots-let-the-image-quality-comparisons-begin
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Some good comparisons there, though I do wish they'd resize everything the same. As it is, cameras with higher pixel counts are shown larger and therefore tend to look worse. Also, the images are all SOOC jpgs so subject to any changes there, eg default contrast and sharpening can skew things.

Only looked at a few, but it seems to me that the 7D2 has made some very modest progress over the 7D and 70D, but it's tiny, maybe third-stop max. But they all compare reasonably well to Nikon APS-C (I'd say the 7D2 is nip and tuck with Nikon D7100) so I don't think Canon is anything like as far behind the curve as some seem to think.

Then if you want to see a real jump forward, load up some full-frame cameras for comparison - sharper, less noise, as you'd expect. Nikon D750 is not up yet though.
 
Was just about to post that link - definite big improvement over the Mk1 7D!

Even compared to 1dx/5D3 it's not that much worse. Better than 1D4 too I'd say - still great for 20mp APS-C imo
 
WilliamC said:
I've seen November 17th mentioned in a couple of articles and several just said "November". In time for Christmas anyway (not that anyone is going to drop £1500 on my Xmas present, except perhaps myself).
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Thanks, I'll mention it to Santa. :)
 
Jackwow said:
Well I want a 7D Mk 2, to replace my 7D Mk 1. Does anyone know when they will actually be generally available to buy without pre-ordering.
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I emailed HDEW:

Unfortunately we will not get supply of the 7D MKII for a 3-4 weeks after it's release date as initial batches would have been pre-sold many months ago. We will be putting them on the website as soon as we can get them. Unfortunately we have no idea at this stage at what price as we do not know the costs.
 
dolina said:
Sony A7s, Panasonic GH4 and Panasonic FZ1000 to name a few has WiFi, 4K resolution video and even NFC. Although they do it using lower quality with on-board memory or through an external recorder.
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Who wants to shoot, let alone store 4k video?! I can understand broadcast cameras needing it, but i can't see the need even with 'pro' DSLRs!
 
tray271 said:
unrealistic in nature ive just noticed that comment..let me wipe the mug off your forehead if you think canon are givin us a new type of tech that is at an affordable price..how long has the cmos bayer sensor been going...atleast sigma tried something new with the foveon sensor..
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Oh dear.

Do you not think there's a reason the Bayer / CMOS is still in use?

A Canon 6d will wipe the floor with any of the Sigma Foveons.

Oh, and let's see some clean ISO 3200 shots from a Foveon. In fact, let's see clean shots above ISO 200. Oh, hang on...
 
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tray271 said:
you go ahead and get one and enjoy old sensor tech...and make sure you buy from the uk and you will be getting milked again..end of conversation
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What if cats could buy cameras? Would they also get milked?

>.>
 
the reason they still use cmos and bayer is price .they are cheap to manufacture..a canon 6d is a nice camera and has some nice features and I think is a very good price ...but for image quality at iso 100 to 200 the sigma foveon destroys any camera for pixel sharpness and detail ...yes it can be fiddly and it has bad battery life but the results are stunning ..I personally don't use any higher than iso 400 so my opinion is based on what I use the sytems for.....I had a 6d for a bit aswell as the 5dmk 3 and for usability ,battery life and ease of use they were great...for image quality to me and what I use now they were very poor ..and the speca sheet on Nikon and say sony are allways better than canon..canon is easy to use and the menu structure is nice ,easy handling etc etc..but as far as image quality sharpness and improvement they are not bringing anything new to the game ...why do you think they have patens for 5 layer sensors ...what is the point ..they will release the 5 layer sensor say in 5 years...I want to take a photo and I want it to be what my eyes see,foveon is the closest yet to what my eyes see
 
tray271 said:
the reason they still use cmos and bayer is price .they are cheap to manufacture..a canon 6d is a nice camera and has some nice features and I think is a very good price ...but for image quality at iso 100 to 200 the sigma foveon destroys any camera for pixel sharpness and detail ...yes it can be fiddly and it has bad battery life but the results are stunning ..I personally don't use any higher than iso 400 so my opinion is based on what I use the sytems for.....I had a 6d for a bit aswell as the 5dmk 3 and for usability ,battery life and ease of use they were great...for image quality to me and what I use now they were very poor ..and the speca sheet on Nikon and say sony are allways better than canon..canon is easy to use and the menu structure is nice ,easy handling etc etc..but as far as image quality sharpness and improvement they are not bringing anything new to the game ...why do you think they have patens for 5 layer sensors ...what is the point ..they will release the 5 layer sensor say in 5 years...I want to take a photo and I want it to be what my eyes see,foveon is the closest yet to what my eyes see
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You seem to have owned a lot of expensive, top end Canon cameras (1dx, 5d3 and now a 6d???)

Clearly, you've got some very big pockets! ;)

To say you found a 5d3 and 6d to have poor image quality is pure BS.

Obviously you haven't owned or even used the top end Canons you claim to have. Perhaps you 'upgraded' from an old tired DSLR to a Merryl and are justifying your purchase but you really are digging a very ugly hole with your comments, which TBH simply don't make sense or have any bearing in the real world.

And having downloaded a full res Foveon file (albeit JPEG as I don't have the raw viewer for the Sigma Foveon files) there's nothing there I couldn't blitz with a 6d.

Sigma have released their technology too soon to try and get a hold on this sector, which unless they improve soon (which technically they can't) it'll die.

As a stand alone system, it's far too restrictive. There are a lot of occasions where the Foveon will fall flat on its face (over ISO 200 for a start) and people will get over the novelty factor and soon get fed up.
 
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tray271 said:
you go ahead and get one and enjoy old sensor tech...and make sure you buy from the uk and you will be getting milked again..end of conversation
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This 'old sensor tech' is still the 'best sensor tech' for 90% of users.

You appear to have this narrow world view where images shot of stationary subjects at 100ISO is the only measurement that counts. Well the 7dII and most other DSLR's are not for you then. You have the perfect camera for that, but then it's useless for the rest of us, who want to shoot moving objects in less than ideal conditions. Now I'm hoping that the 7dII improves it's IQ, but if it doesn't I'll just have to buy a different Canon that has better IQ (there's plenty to choose from). However, that doesn't make this camera useless, just not what I'm looking for.
 
tray271 said:
the reason they still use cmos and bayer is price .they are cheap to manufacture..a canon 6d is a nice camera and has some nice features and I think is a very good price ...but for image quality at iso 100 to 200 the sigma foveon destroys any camera for pixel sharpness and detail ...
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And you have no understanding how simply insignificant that is... even if it's true.

Every complaint about the current 7d is around high ISO performance, and you think Foveon is the answer to those complaints? That's an awesome intellect you have there :notworthy:
 
His comment is also factually incorrect but we won't let that get in the way :)
 
Anyway, now this could be the 'go to' Canon action body, I really would like to see some fast, long EFS primes, 400mm and above. Sports shooters should be crying out for this, long fast lenses, but light, and far less expensive than long EF 'L' primes, and only paying for glass that's used!
 
odd jim said:
Anyway, now this could be the 'go to' Canon action body, I really would like to see some fast, long EFS primes, 400mm and above. Sports shooters should be crying out for this, long fast lenses, but light, and far less expensive than long EF 'L' primes, and only paying for glass that's used!
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Long, fast, cheaper EF-S primes are unlikely. There's very little saving on size/weight/cost with smaller formats at long focal lengths. Eg Olympus 300/2.8 for 4/3rds is actually longer, heavier and more expensive than Canon 300/2.8 for full-frame. Canon's new 400/4 DO is as compact as it's going to get. And the MTF sharpness graphs for that are absolutely fantastic, even with a telecon attached. Could be a very potent combo on a 7D2, but not cheap. Tamron and Sigma seem to be filling the gap for more affordable long lenses of decent quality.
 
HoppyUK said:
Long, fast, cheaper EF-S primes are unlikely. There's very little saving on size/weight/cost with smaller formats at long focal lengths. Eg Olympus 300/2.8 for 4/3rds is actually longer, heavier and more expensive than Canon 300/2.8 for full-frame. Canon's new 400/4 DO is as compact as it's going to get. And the MTF sharpness graphs for that are absolutely fantastic, even with a telecon attached. Could be a very potent combo on a 7D2, but not cheap. Tamron and Sigma seem to be filling the gap for more affordable long lenses of decent quality.
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Indeed, I'm certainly going down (and have gone down) the Sigma route for long fast lenses.
 
tray271 said:
you go ahead and get one and enjoy old sensor tech...and make sure you buy from the uk and you will be getting milked again..end of conversation
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foveon sensor technology isn't exactly new it was developed in the 90's
it's a good idea with not a great deal of development behind it and if sigma don't get there skates on it will be left exactly where it is a niche market

canon are a business they know their market and release cameras to suite their target audience and do this very well as do nikon

when i buy a camera i want to be able to take a photo under almost any circumstance cameras with foveon sensors will not allow me to do that
the 7d mk2 is aimed at a particular audience like it's predecessor the mk1 was and from what iv'e seen n read it improves on quite a lot if the ISO is up to the hype in real life use then the camera is going to be a winner
the fact it uses a cmos sensor isn't going to put any one off most people are not interested in sensor tech
 
I always fancied getting the now discontinued Sigma 50-150 OS for my 7D. Well reviewed and one of the sharpest lens tested on that body. Any reason that it would have any compatibility issues with the 7D mkii if I'm swayed by one instead of my planned FF purchase?
 
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Whippet said:
I always fancied getting the now discontinued Sigma 50-150 OS for my 7D. Well reviewed and one of the sharpest lens tested on that body. Any reason that it would have any compatibility issues with the 7D mkii if I'm swayed by one instead of my planned FF purchase?
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I considered that as a replacement for my canon 200 2.8 which doesnt af any more, i cant imagine a compatibility issue, but you never know of course :)
 
odd jim said:
......, long fast lenses, but light, and far less expensive than long EF 'L' primes, and only paying for glass that's used!
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If it's going to be as fast as the EF version then it needs to have the same apparent aperture and hence the same size optics (for the most part) irrespective of whether or not you use a sensor that fills the projected image circle. An EF-S 600/4 will still need a 150mm diameter front element.

Bob
 
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