Dance Show photography.....need a few pointers please

LASTOLITE

LASTOLITE

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Bill
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I am just not getting what I want.......what? a well balanced photography of youngsters dancing! The drama aspect of performances I am happy with, Generally well evenly lit slow moving subjects that are relatively simple to shoot nice low ISO and enough shutter speed to stop any movement along with F4, 5.6 for some reasonable dof that still oof's the background (well on some stages) But then comes the dancers.....Lighting - changeable, Fast to Very Fast movement and I am getting maybe 1 in 5 as a keeper......I am suffering with Over exposed images and loss of detail in the shots that I have some decent exposure in - mainly due to harsh lighting, either on face or fabric of costumes - often bright white or a reflective fabric. I have read tutorials agog and the more I try the less keepers I seem to get.

I have a D3 and D3s - I must say that I have only just started to shoot these and they have been free shoots for the experience.

Some pointers from those with experience would be great!
 
LASTOLITE said:
But then comes the dancers.....Lighting - changeable, Fast to Very Fast movement and I am getting maybe 1 in 5 as a keeper......I am suffering with Over exposed images and loss of detail in the shots that I have some decent exposure in - mainly due to harsh lighting, either on face or fabric of costumes - often bright white or a reflective fabric. I have read tutorials agog and the more I try the less keepers I seem to get.
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I can't think of a more difficult environment in which to take photos - fast moving & highly variable (but ultimately fairly low) light. I'm really not an expert in this genre but I'd think you'll have to be shooting largely in manual, shutter speed at 1/125 or faster, spot metering, fixed fairly wide (f1.8-4.0 ish) aperture and adjusting the iso to get the exposure right.

I'm not sure how the D3 behaves but you may find that auto ISO does the job in conjunction with spot metering.

I'd probably use a single central focus point and lock & recompose as required.

Alternatively .. does the D3 have a fully auto 'sport' mode? That would set a minimum shutter speed. You could dial in some exposure compensation once you'd get the measure of how evaluative metering is working and then just leave the camera to it.

Lastly - if all else fails try bracketing. Rapid fire 3 shots, one under exposed, one exposed normally and one over exposed by a stop.

Depending on what you mean by 'keepers', 1 in 5 isn't all that bad, actually!
 
I have covered an opera production, including lots of rehearsals (where you get to know the subject, including "moments", and performances under similar shooting conditions. I also cover classical music concerrts
I mostly use aperture priority with my thumb on the exposure compensation dial. Use what ever metering mode you are happy and familiar with, I use matrix (area) metering.
I mostly shoot at maximum, or near maximum aperture and near maximum or maximum ISO and take what ever shutter speed I can get. If you have more light than you may need consider reducing the ISO or closing down a bit to give you a bit more DOF
Fast lenses help a lot - I use 35mm f2, 85mm f1.8 and a 135mm f2 on both crop and full frame bodies.
I shoot centre focus point only active and always shoot RAW (to give me a bit more control when PPing).

Make the most of dress rehearsals where you should be able to move around a lot (although the lighting director may be playing around with the lighting - a major headache) because during the performance you may not be able to move around or do anything that distracts the audience from the performance.
 
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I'll add my 2 pennorth.

1, get a meter reading for the lights in Manual and stick to it, chasing the metering about is a fools errand

2, a 1 in 5 keeper rate for this kind of work doesn't sound that far out, but I have no idea what your expectations are, what you'd call a keeper etc.

3, I've never done this but I'd not expect to get a clean shot of every cast member 'performing' it could be too much to ask (though I'm free to be wrong) if it was my gig, i'd ensure I got a shot of everyone in each costume in a 'clean' environment set up off stage.
 
Phil V said:
I'll add my 2 pennorth.

1, get a meter reading for the lights in Manual and stick to it, chasing the metering about is a fools errand

2, a 1 in 5 keeper rate for this kind of work doesn't sound that far out, but I have no idea what your expectations are, what you'd call a keeper etc.

3, I've never done this but I'd not expect to get a clean shot of every cast member 'performing' it could be too much to ask (though I'm free to be wrong) if it was my gig, i'd ensure I got a shot of everyone in each costume in a 'clean' environment set up off stage.
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I'd never shot any kind of show until I did my daughters' tap and ballet show last year.

I quickly worked out that manual was the way to go! I shot mainly at f4 but occasionally at f2.8. ISO was 1600 or more to maintain a fast shutter speed. Personally not being in manual mode would have resulted in less keepers - in my hands!

Lighting was changing but read the in camera meter to adjust shutter speed or ISO as needed.

Focus wise I think it was af-c and single point on the d800.

Biggest thing for me was having a fixed position and not being able to move

I would have loved to try a D3s as I hear the af and ISO capability is amazing, not that the d800 is bad!
 
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OK Thanks so much for the responses to this, this has to be the biggest issue I have come across in my experience I am getting the hang of it now after 2 more sessions and I am setting my aperture fixing the shutter to freeze action and setting the iso to Auto - and exp comp is my fine tune - I am under exposing the shot and shooting raw to give me more options later....I am getting better results this way - although in this heat its a hard job made harder.......

Thanks again for the pointers!! everyone!
 
Based on the guy that was shooting the dance school that I ran the sound for a few weeks back:

-Shoot at the dress rehearsal. There is more likely to be a base level of white light so that the creative lighting can be worked on without plunging everyone into darkness. There won't be any audience allowing you to move and many numbers will be danced more than once.
-Volume. I was in my box at the back of the auditorium, but the guy seemed to be shooting constantly for the best part of a 10 hour rehearsal day. I spotted him changing cards on a fairly regular basis!

The company had a booth set up at the actual show, and they had hundreds of shots, filling 6*9ft of exhibitions boards, with probably 2-3" square proofs for parents & family to choose. Most of the shots were close-ups, aiming to isolate one dancer, rather than going for the drama/mood. Remember most dance school shows are not productions per se, but a chance for mum, dad, brother, sister, nan, grandad, uncle tom, auntie sue, the school teacher and the next door neighbours to see 'their' dancer on stage. To that end, the main thing is getting their face rather than a creative masterpiece!
 
LASTOLITE said:
I am just not getting what I want.......what? a well balanced photography of youngsters dancing! The drama aspect of performances I am happy with, Generally well evenly lit slow moving subjects that are relatively simple to shoot nice low ISO and enough shutter speed to stop any movement along with F4, 5.6 for some reasonable dof that still oof's the background (well on some stages) But then comes the dancers.....Lighting - changeable, Fast to Very Fast movement and I am getting maybe 1 in 5 as a keeper......I am suffering with Over exposed images and loss of detail in the shots that I have some decent exposure in - mainly due to harsh lighting, either on face or fabric of costumes - often bright white or a reflective fabric. I have read tutorials agog and the more I try the less keepers I seem to get.

I have a D3 and D3s - I must say that I have only just started to shoot these and they have been free shoots for the experience.

Some pointers from those with experience would be great!
Click to expand...

I shoot stage. Fix your ISO as high as you can and still get a decent shot. I use ISO 3200. Just leave your ISO where it is, you don't have time to change it, if you try you'll miss a lot of shots. Set your aperture at F4 and leave it there. Gain greater depth of field when you need it by shooting wide. Think about your dof as a plane in front of you, you have 3 subject you want in focus then get flat on with the 3 subjects. Shoot wide and crop later. I expect you are shooting for web, so you don't need large images.

I just read you are setting auto ISO, that definitely does not work for me. If you shoot dark and pull the shots out, you'll get more noise.

Never shoot at a live performance unless you have no choice. Dress rehearsals is what you need. Get interesting pov's by doing things such as lying down, running up the auditorium, what ever it takes, don't just stand there and snap.

Use centre spot metering only. Meter off middle weighted colours, not black/white. You need to get spot on with exposure to avoid noise in pp.

You cannot be expected to perform miracles. If the lighting is crap and the dancing is fast there is nothing you can do about it. Tell someone, don't just sit there worrying, they might be able to help you. Talk to the director/dsm/lighting guy, whoever.

If I take 600 shots for a 2 hour performance I get around 100 shots as keepers. On my first shoots this would have taken 1000 shots. Keep shooting, keep one eye in your viewer and one eye on the stage - it takes practise. When you arrive and before they perform walk around the stage area and take light readings so you know what to expect. Look at interesting shot opportunities and plan for "if X stands here it will be a great shot".

Read the choreography in advance, plan as much as you possibly can. For stage plays I always get at least a synopsis, and I research the play on Youtube, etc.

It is not easy, but it is amazing fun.

Check out my stuff, it might give you some ideas for what works.

I hope this helps, best of luck!

Oh, and get it right before you take a paid gig or you will be so, so screwed :)


(P.S. not looking for critique, please don't give it, I won't read it ;) )
 
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Thanks Jenny - Well after looking at several other dance school shoots by others - Not yours Jenny:D I see my stuff is not as bad as I thought - many have issues with the fast motion dancing / low light NO flash - who wouldn't anyway not feeling as bad I was and my shots are being used and have have my first feedback and its good so moving forward and feeling a little more comfortable with the progress all be it at what seems like a snails pace.....How we live in the instant success era! Practice practice and a little more Practice:rolleyes:

My teacher used to say Success only comes before work in the dictionary Boy! So true.......
 
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