elinchrom

nomi

nomi

Messages
27
Edit My Images
No
hello everybody...i am new to photography and have a question...

i am thinking of buying a set of elinchrom lights,for portrait photography.

what i want to know is ,which one is better ???
Elinchrom 400/400 D-Lite 4 RX Softbox Kit or
Elinchrom D-Lite One RX Softbox Kit......

thanks in advance...
 
D-Lite 400 has 400Ws of power - ample for most things. D-Lite One has 100Ws, one quarter the power (two stops less, similar to a big speedlite) and usually enough for home portraiture, but marginal for small groups. Otherwise identical kits.
 
Thanks for the info....i will probably go with the Elinchrom 400/400 D-Lite 4 RX ...Thanks
 
I know it's not what you asked, but if you're going with Elinchrom just because they're available from the major retailers, you might consider looking at the alternatives first.

That's a large chunk of money just for a bit of home portraiture, and there are other brands that'd be a much better buy.

Just like cameras though, putting most of your cash into the lights themselves is a mistake. I'd say about 50% of your budget on the lights, the rest will get you some interesting modifiers. It's the modifiers that give you real control (control is the reason we buy studio lights).

For £600 I'd go with a couple of 200Ws heads, decent stands, (a boom if you have space) a large octobox with grid, medium softbox with grid, a snoot, and std reflectors with honeycomb grids. A couple of brollies and reflector, reflector holder on a cheap stand.

Not as easy as clicking 'buy now' at WEX, but much more fun, much more useful, and a lot better use of cash.
 
Thanks Phil..i still havent decided yet,but still edging towards Elinchom....
 
The Elinchrom kit is decent but expensive, at their price you can pretty much consider most other brands. I do think they should include better softboxes.

It's worth considering that the stuff Phil recommends you'll eventually want so if your whole budget goes into that kit you're going to be limiting yourself, fortunately everything is pretty cheap besides softboxes.
 
While Elinchrom is ok kit I still consider it pretty average for the money and no better than any of the other cheaper brands. I've never seen the atraction of it personally so try not to get hung up on the brand and have a good look around at the alternatives.
 
So, what are reasonable alternatives.mive been looking at Lencarta and Interfit abd confused
 
gmb033 said:
So, what are reasonable alternatives.mive been looking at Lencarta and Interfit abd confused
Click to expand...

There's a lot of decent kit about, but I've yet to find anything better than Lencarta and Elinchrom, unless you can stretch to Profoto.
 
Thanks, somewhat surprised re Lencarta but recognise I'm as green as grass. I was in Jessops today and they offer Interfix, how does this rate. I suppose im wanting to do home portraits and family, full body, what would be reasonable kit/ requirements.

Secondly understand the light stands aren't universal, is that correct?
 
Light stands ARE universal, in the sense that they all have the standard 16mm/5/8" spiggot. But there are some light stands that can only support the weight of a hotshoe flashgun, not a studio head complete with a heavy modifier.
But to go back to the other bit of your question, a good start for portraits is a 2 head kit with one softbox and 1 umbrella, such as this one (there are of course other makes available) and kits include suitable stands
 
gmb033 said:
Thanks, somewhat surprised re Lencarta but recognise I'm as green as grass. I was in Jessops today and they offer Interfix, how does this rate. I suppose im wanting to do home portraits and family, full body, what would be reasonable kit/ requirements.
Click to expand...

Interfit are... cheap! Which is both good and bad, a lot of their accessories are actually pretty decent (some decent bags, light duty booms etc) but the lights are on the generic side although they're bare bulbs and use standard fitting types (same as Elinchrom on their newer models). You'll pay about £200 to £400 new depending on which kit you're buying from them, I think they represent good value second hand where you can buy a kit for less than the cost of a single head from another brand.

Up from there you can look at Bowens, Elinchrom, Lencarta etc they all provide heads in the 100 - 400 range which are aimed at the sort of requirements we're discussing. Doesn't really matter which brand you buy in a sense, as long as you're not buying one of those £30 Chinese units which have questionable quality control you'll find all the heads ultimately do the same job of producing light and unless you're demanding even the 'best' stuff won't add a massive deal.

Regardless of which brand you opt for follow Phil's advice above and get the right modifiers to help what you're trying to achieve, you don't need to have every modifier but for portraits you'll probably really appreciate an octagonal softbox, a 5 in 1 reflector etc.

gmb033 said:
Secondly understand the light stands aren't universal, is that correct?
Click to expand...

You may find some odd spigots on some really old stands or something from Broncolor but that's probably it. Try to avoid the cheapest plastic ones as they're not long for the world and it really doesn't cost much to get a decent one.
 
Crap stands are a tenner, decent ones are thirty quid, the crap ones will do for a reflector stand. But the extra £40 is well spent for your actual lights.

As I said before, something like Lencarta Smartflashes, will leave you a load of money to spend on interesting stuff. I'd recommend you have access to a square softbox, an octagonal softbox, a shoot through and a reflective brolly. And if you want to, a beauty dish. You can try other makes, but if you call Garry, he'll probably help you with a custom kit based on a twin Smartflash kit.

Add the cheap light stand, and reflector holder and 5in 1 reflector from ebay. (You could do ebay brollies too but don't tell Garry I said).

Smartflashes are easily powerful enough for a home studio, you might need 400 ISO for small groups.
 
Maybe you could go for one head. It is much easier to exhaust one head and then add a second head when/if you need to. By doing this you can get more kit to use with that light and better quality.

a 60" convertible umbrella is a great starting modifier as you can do a lot with it, even mimic a basic softbox look by partially collapsing it. In my opinion by having too many modifier too quickly, you run the risk of playing with all and knowing the limitations of none. Invest in a good stand, one head and one modifier. Get to know it and then when you know why you need a different modifier, get one. Add a reflector and you can do a hell of a lot. You can then add another light later on.

In terms of brands I have Elinchrom BRX. Couldn't be happier with them. Changing power remotely is a massive bonus for me. By going this route you could invest in a 250 Brx head, add a decent stand, a trigger that allows remote power changing of the head, a 60 inch umbrella and a reflector for the same money. Higher quality gear on the same budget.

In my opinion buying limited but better kit will serve you longer, it will also save the problems that comes with trying to learn to use two lights when mastering one is a very difficult thing.
 
ding76uk said:
Maybe you could go for one head. It is much easier to exhaust one head and then add a second head when/if you need to. By doing this you can get more kit to use with that light and better quality.

a 60" convertible umbrella is a great starting modifier as you can do a lot with it, even mimic a basic softbox look by partially collapsing it. In my opinion by having too many modifier too quickly, you run the risk of playing with all and knowing the limitations of none. Invest in a good stand, one head and one modifier. Get to know it and then when you know why you need a different modifier, get one. Add a reflector and you can do a hell of a lot. You can then add another light later on.

In terms of brands I have Elinchrom BRX. Couldn't be happier with them. Changing power remotely is a massive bonus for me. By going this route you could invest in a 250 Brx head, add a decent stand, a trigger that allows remote power changing of the head, a 60 inch umbrella and a reflector for the same money. Higher quality gear on the same budget.

In my opinion buying limited but better kit will serve you longer, it will also save the problems that comes with trying to learn to use two lights when mastering one is a very difficult thing.
Click to expand...
In theory yes. But (with most manufacturers at least) there are massive discounts when you buy a two head kit, so it makes economic sense to do that and to then do what you suggest, i.e. use just a single flash head until all the possibilities with just one head - and there are many - have been fully explored
 
Garry Edwards said:
In theory yes. But (with most manufacturers at least) there are massive discounts when you buy a two head kit, so it makes economic sense to do that and to then do what you suggest, i.e. use just a single flash head until all the possibilities with just one head - and there are many - have been fully explored
Click to expand...

Not that much really.

Based on the DLit 400 kit above.

Single head is £245
Lastolite Air Stand £45
Elinchrom Speed Transmitter£44
Westcott 60 inch white/black umbrella £36
Reflector £25

Total £395

Kit price is £639

All prices from WEX

To me my recommendation offers massive savings and a massive amount of opportunity to learn. IMHO you would not need to add to this for months as a beginner. If you wanted for the budget you could add a 135cm Octa soft box for £239 have a beautiful modifier and still be under the OP original budget. I know where my money would go and which offers the most in terms of quality light.

You could add a second head and still be at the kit price (OK you would need another stand and modifier) but most of those bundled are not the greatest.
 
ding76uk said:
Not that much really.
Click to expand...


You're comparing the softbox kit to separate pieces without, a more sensible comparison would be the 4/2 umbrella kit which is £529 vs £395.

In other words by buying the kit you spend £159 more (adding in the reflector cost) but in addition you get a 200w head, a stand, another umbrella, 2 umbrella reflectors and storage/carry bags for heads and stands.

You could make the argument that the buyer might be wiser buying just one head but you can't really argue that you don't get good discounts buying a kit.
 
simonbarker said:
You're comparing the softbox kit to separate pieces without, a more sensible comparison would be the 4/2 umbrella kit which is £529 vs £395.

In other words by buying the kit you spend £159 more (adding in the reflector cost) but in addition you get a 200w head, a stand, another umbrella, 2 umbrella reflectors and storage/carry bags for heads and stands.

You could make the argument that the buyer might be wiser buying just one head but you can't really argue that you don't get good discounts buying a kit.
Click to expand...

You get a discount, but on what? You are getting some stands, a cheap pair of sofboxes and a bag thrown in. Is that really better from a photographic perspective?

You (IMHO) get better value for money by investing in the kit I listed than you would for the 2 light kit.
 
ding76uk said:
You get a discount, but on what? You are getting some stands, a cheap pair of sofboxes and a bag thrown in. Is that really better from a photographic perspective?

You (IMHO) get better value for money by investing in the kit I listed than you would for the 2 light kit.
Click to expand...

I see your point but if we're going to argue from a photographic perspective eventually the extra head will win out, in a home environment I also see the stand and tube bags being very useful for storage or transport and one lighting stand is not enough.

I'm totally in agreement with the start with one head to learn approach but if you're spending that much I do think you'll get better value out of spending another £150 given how much extra kit you'll get. To illustrate my point, if you were to sell those extra bits second hand you'd get at least £180.
 
Some manufacturers may include goods of dubious value and/or quality in kits, others do not.
With most, the kit contents are of standard quality and are both very useful and heavily discounted.
For example, and mentioning no names..
Single flash head £110
Single stand £30
Single standard reflector £10
Radio trigger/remote set £50
Umbrella £15
That's a total of £215

Twin head kit including 2 of everything except the radio trigger set, as you only need one of those, + an extra receiver for the second head, total cost £300
 
simonbarker said:
I see your point but if we're going to argue from a photographic perspective eventually the extra head will win out, in a home environment I also see the stand and tube bags being very useful for storage or transport and one lighting stand is not enough.

I'm totally in agreement with the start with one head to learn approach but if you're spending that much I do think you'll get better value out of spending another £150 given how much extra kit you'll get. To illustrate my point, if you were to sell those extra bits second hand you'd get at least £180.
Click to expand...

Looking at the kit I showed you save £244. Which is the price on one beautiful modifier.

I went this approach when I bought my lighting. I only have on Brx and a 100 Deep Octa. I couldn't afford the 2 light kit in the Brx and so went this route. Yes I am looking to add another head (two in fact now) but can get 2 heads and stands separately for the same money (I want more Manfrotto master stands). To me I get better kit for the same price. I don't want softboxes, I want strip banks so the extras are not worth it.

It boils down to horses for courses. For some it is the better modifiers, for some it will be more kit and add modifiers later.

Just because you save vs. buying it separately it does not always offer the best value.
 
I'm also an advocate of the one-light-for-learning route, but the savings when buying a two-head kit are undeniable - typically 20-25% off, like £100 and more. So maybe the best way is to buy a two-head kit but just leave one of them in the box until you're ready?

So long as you don't end up buying stuff you don't actually want just because it's in the kit, you'll not go far wrong. Which reminds me of a very advantageous service offered by Lencarta - the option to swap stuff out of a standard kit, and retain the savings. For example, you want a couple of softboxes, but not the cheaper ones in the kit that (I find ;)) are such a PITA to put up and down for every session. So choose a nice push-up ProFold octa or whatever, and just pay the extra difference in price (y)

I think that's how it works, and maybe other manufacturers offer the same kind of service. I know Elinchrom doesn't though - they can't as the kits are already pre-packed and boxed, presumably from the factory. With Lencarta, each order is individually picked from the warehouse.

Edit: just to be fair when comparing prices, Elinchrom kits include a semi-hard case for the heads and bag for stands. Lencarta does not.
 
Last edited:
HoppyUK said:
I'm also an advocate of the one-light-for-learning route, but the savings when buying a two-head kit are undeniable - typically 20-25% off, like £100 and more. So maybe the best way is to buy a two-head kit but just leave one of them in the box until you're ready?

So long as you don't end up buying stuff you don't actually want just because it's in the kit, you'll not go far wrong. Which reminds me of a very advantageous service offered by Lencarta - the option to swap stuff out of a standard kit, and retain the savings. For example, you want a couple of softboxes, but not the cheaper ones in the kit that (I find ;)) are such a PITA to put up and down for every session. So choose a nice push-up ProFold octa or whatever, and just pay the extra difference in price (y)

I think that's how it works, and maybe other manufacturers offer the same kind of service. I know Elinchrom doesn't though - they can't as the kits are already pre-packed and boxed, presumably from the factory. With Lencarta, each order is individually picked from the warehouse.

Edit: just to be fair when comparing prices, Elinchrom kits include a semi-hard case for the heads and bag for stands. Lencarta does not.
Click to expand...
We're trying to get a 'kit builder' module for the website that allows people to swap out kit accessories, but it's complicated and it may not be possible to do it with the existing website. Meanwhile yes, we can and do custom-build kits for customers, it just needs a phone call or email.

There was a time when we used to bundle things like bags, but now we don't simply because doing so forces people to buy items that they may not even have a use for. And leaving out 'optional extras' so that people buy them only if they actually need them allows us to keep kit prices down. Obviously I'm not critical of the choices that other manufacturers make, that's their business, but we try to keep to essentials in our own kits.
 
Garry Edwards said:
We're trying to get a 'kit builder' module for the website that allows people to swap out kit accessories, but it's complicated and it may not be possible to do it with the existing website. Meanwhile yes, we can and do custom-build kits for customers, it just needs a phone call or email.

There was a time when we used to bundle things like bags, but now we don't simply because doing so forces people to buy items that they may not even have a use for. And leaving out 'optional extras' so that people buy them only if they actually need them allows us to keep kit prices down. Obviously I'm not critical of the choices that other manufacturers make, that's their business, but we try to keep to essentials in our own kits.
Click to expand...

I imagine a software programme to build a custom kit and incorporate all the discounts could be quite complicated, but the bottom line is it's pretty much just a kind of bulk discount. Could you simply offer something like, 'build a two-light kit and save 20%' or 'build a three-light kit and save 25%'? That kind of thing? Sorry to go on, but I think it's such a good idea; everyone likes a discount but I've yet to see a bundled kit from any manufacturer that has exactly what I'd want in a starter outfit :)
 
HoppyUK said:
I imagine a software programme to build a custom kit and incorporate all the discounts could be quite complicated, but the bottom line is it's pretty much just a kind of bulk discount. Could you simply offer something like, 'build a two-light kit and save 20%' or 'build a three-light kit and save 25%'? That kind of thing? Sorry to go on, but I think it's such a good idea; everyone likes a discount but I've yet to see a bundled kit from any manufacturer that has exactly what I'd want in a starter outfit :)
Click to expand...

It's not complicated, you'd either have it as an item with components and the components dictate the price or a base price and being able to choose which features you'd like to add (e.g. no softbox, profold etc). I'm assuming the additional items have a fixed price when being included in a kit rather than a variable discount.

In software the complexity usually comes because the requirements weren't fully understood/known so you design something to do job a but then you want job b done. Most off the shelf ecommerce systems are pretty well rounded now though and I'm guessing the Lencarta site isn't bespoke so it shouldn't pose a problem?
 
brucegill said:
Interesting thread! I'm in much the same position as the OP.

dumb question? Do all of these have a modelling lamp?
Click to expand...
Yes. Though that gets complicated in itself.

Some modelling lamps are proportional some go out at the point of exposure and come back on when the flash us 'ready' some aren't very bright etc.
 
One thing to consider with the modelling lamp, does the protective cap fit with the lamp in place ?
Our bigger Elinchrom Style RX heads have a "normal" type modelling lamp which fits with the protective cap on but the D Lite 4 RX has a different smaller wattage bulb that has to be removed to fit the cap. Then you have to find it a safe storage location that it wont get broken, therefore the modelling lamp on the D lite never gets used. A small thing I know but a pita all the same.
 
brucegill said:
Thanks Phil V! Coming from flash guns and not being able to see what I'm shooting, or auto focus being rubbish in bad light (fujix). Modelling lamp would be a must for me.
Click to expand...
Ignore me if I'm teaching my gran to suck eggs, but I'll repeat it as it's often misunderstood.

If you're setting up a temporary studio at home, you can keep the room lights on so you can see what you're doing and focus ok. The flash exposure should be higher enough than the ambient for the lights for them to not register on your exposure.
 
Thanks Testbloke, thats something id never have thought about until I went to put the cap back for the first time!

Thanks Phil, not at all, thanks for the help. Its really only on certain subjects and a mirror less Fuji thing. I have to go into the menus to turn "show exposure in EVF" off so I get to frame the subject. Some lighting conditions leave the Auto focus useless if the image will be underexposed (camera obviously doesn't realise light WILL be on the subject once the flash's fire).

Flash/lighting is all very new to me, so ANY help and advise is great. I'll happily be told how to suck an egg :)
 
brucegill said:
Thanks Testbloke, thats something id never have thought about until I went to put the cap back for the first time!

Thanks Phil, not at all, thanks for the help. Its really only on certain subjects and a mirror less Fuji thing. I have to go into the menus to turn "show exposure in EVF" off so I get to frame the subject. Some lighting conditions leave the Auto focus useless if the image will be underexposed (camera obviously doesn't realise light WILL be on the subject once the flash's fire).

Flash/lighting is all very new to me, so ANY help and advise is great. I'll happily be told how to suck an egg :)
Click to expand...
Is there a programmable custom function?
Because it strikes me it's a great case for one. C1; turn off show exposure in EVF, set Manual 1/200 f5.6 iso100.
 
testbloke said:
One thing to consider with the modelling lamp, does the protective cap fit with the lamp in place ?
Our bigger Elinchrom Style RX heads have a "normal" type modelling lamp which fits with the protective cap on but the D Lite 4 RX has a different smaller wattage bulb that has to be removed to fit the cap. Then you have to find it a safe storage location that it wont get broken, therefore the modelling lamp on the D lite never gets used. A small thing I know but a pita all the same.
Click to expand...

Modelling bulb should fit inside the protective cap no problem. Have you screwed the bulb in fully? Either that or the bulb is non-standard.
 
Last edited:
Phil V said:
Yes. Though that gets complicated in itself.

Some modelling lamps are proportional some go out at the point of exposure and come back on when the flash us 'ready' some aren't very bright etc.
Click to expand...
Modelling lamps are enormously useful.
Their main function is to show you where the shadows will fall, although of course they're also useful as a focusing aid.
BUT although they do show the effect of the lighting and where the shadows will fall, they DON'T give an accurate indication of the depth of those shadows, and the reason for this is that, in normal room lighting, they aren't bright enough to overwhelm the ambient light. As a result, the shadows appear to be a lot lighter than they actually are because ambient light is getting into the shadow areas and making them appear less dark than they are.

The only real solution to this is to set up the lighting in complete darkness, other than with the light from the modelling lamps.

Modelling lamps need to be pretty bright to be useful, typically at least 150 watts, and 250 watts is better. The really cheap flash heads with something like a 75 watt modelling lamp are pretty useless, especially when a softbox or other diffuser is fitted.

Because of the need for a powerful modelling lamp, my usual approach is to use the modelling lamp at full power, and to then switch it off (for my model's comfort) once I'm done with it.
 
HoppyUK said:
Modelling bulb should fit inside the protective cap no problem. Have you screwed the bulb in fully? Either that or the bulb is non-standard.
Click to expand...

Yup that's my experience too, the mushroom shaped Leuci bulbs should fit without issue even on the older D-lite heads.
 
simonbarker said:
Yup that's my experience too, the mushroom shaped Leuci bulbs should fit without issue even on the older D-lite heads.
Click to expand...
This is the latest RX 4 head, bought from UK supplier. Can remember when we bought it there was small print about removing the modelling lamp before fitting the protective cap but cant find the reference now. Also cant find the modelling lamp now to re confirm.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top