HDEW / PortusDigital / Validhurst. A Bit of a tangled web??

VickyMids

VickyMids

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Vicky
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I was looking online to buy a new body.

I have dealt with HDEW Before and never had a problem with them, they have supplied VAT Receipts and I have been able to register the item for warranty in the UK.

The item I was looking at was £1999 on HDEW.

I then came across the same item from PortusDigital for £1799 all looked legit UK Address etc etc.

Checking back on the 2 companies you get

VALIDHURST Ltd T/A HDEW Cameras

PortusDigital dont manetion any links but the Credit Card transaction comes up as

VALIDHURST Ltd T/A Portus Digital

So HDEW Gives a VAT Receipt, But when asked Portus gave a fluff answer that they were an Australian Company and not VAT Registered in the UK so could not provide a VAT Receipt although claiming all import duties are paid on the items arrival in the UK. (Although would not supply proof)

I just find it very odd that the same company is punting products under 2 different outlets. (1 claiming to be offshore, yet with a UK adresss and telephone)

Anyway have decided to avoid Portus as I need UK VAT Receipt for tax and warranty.

But wondered if anyone had any info on the linking of these two..
 
It's not that surprising. One outlet is VAT registered, one is not (hence the price difference). If you don't need a VAT receipt, they can charge you less.

However, if they're operating both trades out of the same Ltd company (as the c/c receipt suggests) I'm not sure that their tax planning is all that robust... ;)
 
It's even more tangled than you think.

Validhirst Ltd (NB note spelling) is registered at an address in Ashtead, Surrey, with company number 02975584. It is 100% owned (50/50) by the two directors, Paul Clementis and Jacqueline Clementis. Meanwhile HDEW Cameras Ltd is registered at the same address, with company number 07412635, and is also 100% owned by the same two people. Neither campany has any subsidiaries, i.e. neither owns the other.

It's an odd arrangement, to be sure, especially if you see Validhirst trading as HDEW Cameras.

The complicated arrangement is probably something to do with tax planning. They certainly have some clever scheme because HDEW's prices are so consistently cheaper than other retailers. For example, making a quick survey of some of my most popular lenses:
  • Canon 70-200mm f/2.8 L IS II ... mainstream £1699, HDEW £1550 (9% cheaper)
  • Canon 24-70mm f/2.8 L II ... mainstream £1549, HDEW £1305 (16% cheaper)
  • Canon 100-400mm ... mainstream £1239, HDEW £1035 (16% cheaper)
  • Nikon 24-70mm f/2.8 ... mainstream £1235, HDEW £999 (19% cheaper)
  • Nikon 14-24mm f/2.8 ... mainstream £1315, HDEW £989 (25% cheaper)
HDEW's prices are exactly what you'd expect to see if they were selling illegal imports on which VAT had not been paid. And yet they issue VAT receipts. Whatever they're doing and however they're doing it, it's very clever.
 
Yes Stewart it all seems very dubious

HDew actually have
Validhirst t/a Hdew cameras on their website

But Portus Digital have no reference to anyone they claim to be an Australian company "at least according to the gentleman that emailed me "Paul" coincidence ;-). And trading from a Welsh address and phone number

I challenged him on the fact that the credit card transaction came up as validhirst t/a Portus Digita and he gave me a line that it was just a 3rd party company in the uk that dealt with their credit card transactions here

All seems very suss

I
 
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Right i got sucked in by all the over the top comments saying how good portus was and soft arse here has paid 389 for a d5300. Been speaking to the lad and he seems confident enough im going to get my camera next week. I didn't no anything about all the tax business stuff. I just want my bloody camera. 7 days he's said from when I placed the order that's Wednesday although he might say Friday a because they don't count weekends. Rest assured ill be back on to update because to be honest my message is about the only one i can believe right now.. i can live the warranty thing if i get my camera in working order. My nerves are shot!!
 
ashgas said:
Right i got sucked in by all the over the top comments saying how good portus was and soft arse here has paid 389 for a d5300. Been speaking to the lad and he seems confident enough im going to get my camera next week. I didn't no anything about all the tax business stuff. I just want my bloody camera. 7 days he's said from when I placed the order that's Wednesday although he might say Friday a because they don't count weekends. Rest assured ill be back on to update because to be honest my message is about the only one i can believe right now.. i can live the warranty thing if i get my camera in working order. My nerves are shot!!
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I doubt you'll have any issues getting the camera, it's more the business practices of the firms that are under the spotlight here.
 
Oh an Hi to everyone.. maybe I'll use this site again.. if I ever get my camera! Thanks. :)
 
ashgas said:
Right i got sucked in by all the over the top comments saying how good portus was and soft arse here has paid 389 for a d5300. Been speaking to the lad and he seems confident enough im going to get my camera next week. I didn't no anything about all the tax business stuff. I just want my bloody camera. 7 days he's said from when I placed the order that's Wednesday although he might say Friday a because they don't count weekends. Rest assured ill be back on to update because to be honest my message is about the only one i can believe right now.. i can live the warranty thing if i get my camera in working order. My nerves are shot!!
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If it is linked to HDEW then I'm sure you'll get it fairly quickly as HDEW have a great reputation.

I'll be interested in when you receive etc as might consider Portus going forwards if they deliver
 
ashgas said:
Right i got sucked in by all the over the top comments saying how good portus was and soft arse here has paid 389 for a d5300. Been speaking to the lad and he seems confident enough im going to get my camera next week. I didn't no anything about all the tax business stuff. I just want my bloody camera. 7 days he's said from when I placed the order that's Wednesday although he might say Friday a because they don't count weekends. Rest assured ill be back on to update because to be honest my message is about the only one i can believe right now.. i can live the warranty thing if i get my camera in working order. My nerves are shot!!
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I have purchased from Portus last xmas and didn't have a problem.
It arrived in the time that they said.
 
Like others have said

I am not questioning items arriving I am sure they will and paying by credit card gives protection anyway

For me it's the lack of vat invoice and claiming to be an overseas company when it's clear they are uk based and just bucking the system that got my back up
 
If the company is below the VAT threshold it's perfectly legal for them to not charge VAT.

Although if it's the same company as HDEW, I'm not convinced that it works - my understanding is that the registration threshold is per company, not per trade.
 
Llamaman said:
If the company is below the VAT threshold it's perfectly legal for them to not charge VAT.

Although if it's the same company as HDEW, I'm not convinced that it works - my understanding is that the registration threshold is per company, not per trade.
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But a small UK company not legitimately charging VAT would have had to pay input VAT when they bought the goods to sell to you in the first place. That they are not differentiating such on an invoice doesn't mean you are not paying it.

For example, say said company make 20% gp on an item. They pay £100+VAT for the item from their supplier. Then add 20% on top. You pay £144 flat, without VAT showing.

A VAT registered company will pay £100+VAT to their supplier, and charge you 20% on top = £120+VAT, which is oddly the same amount.....

As an end user, you are also not VAT registered - but you pay the VAT on everything you buy....

Further, to confirm - if a company is below the VAT registration threshold, and still chooses to register, they can do so - but the limit of the threshold is the company annual turnover - not per trade.

EDIT to add : I would be very interested to know from both a professional and an intrigue perspective how Portus are able to offer such lower prices if they are taking payment in the UK, in gbp. Unless the transaction is actually performed off-shore - or they are able to offer much larger discounts via Portus than anywhere else, including HDEW.
 
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If you buy from Portus then you are the importer of the goods, not them. Their Terms makes this clear: http://www.portusdigital.com/terms-and-conditions

By making a purchase on our website you are acting as the importer of the product and agree to Portus Digital making all delivery arrangements to your door, including customs clearance into the UK or other EU countries.
 
They take payment via world pay.. never heard of it either... payment method seem legit. ?
 
ashgas said:
They take payment via world pay.. never heard of it either... payment method seem legit. ?
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Worldpay is an online card transaction handling service that's been around for donkey's years. I used it for some web sites I built and ran for clients in the mid-late 1990s. They were bought by RBS not long after, I think.
 
Peter B said:
If you buy from Portus then you are the importer of the goods, not them. Their Terms makes this clear: http://www.portusdigital.com/terms-and-conditions

By making a purchase on our website you are acting as the importer of the product and agree to Portus Digital making all delivery arrangements to your door, including customs clearance into the UK or other EU countries.
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Thanks for the clarification Peter. Had not noticed that on the website - I did however notice this...

"There are so many websites these days that pretend to be in the UK but then you find that your phone call is transferred to Hong Kong or the USA. Our sales office is here in the UK with a proper UK phone number where you will be able to speak to one of our experienced sales people who will give you down to earth information to help you make your purchase."

Which, given that the T&C's state "you are acting as the importer" gives a strange slant to things. So, is Portus a UK company, or a foreign one? Is it just the sales office that is UK based? If so, who do you make the transaction with? When you pay by WorldPay, who receives the money, and in which country?
 
Panamoz works a similar way. Office in the uk but you act as the importer.

Three lenses from them delivered in under a week each time.
 
braddersmd said:
Which, given that the T&C's state "you are acting as the importer" gives a strange slant to things. So, is Portus a UK company, or a foreign one? Is it just the sales office that is UK based? If so, who do you make the transaction with? When you pay by WorldPay, who receives the money, and in which country?
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According to the OP, Portus is a trading title of Validhirst (or Validhurst?) Ltd which is a British company registered at Companies House. This doesn''t necessarily mean a huge amount as you can buy a registered company for very little money, say a couple of hundred pounds or maybe less. It looks like they will either sell you a bit of kit with vat paid or else they will act as your agent for you to import the same bit of kit where you may or may not be caught for vat and possibly import duty.

Things get a bit less clear when you look at some of their other terms such as:
When you buy a product on our site you recognise that Portus Digital is sourcing the product on your behalf and making it available for you to import directly from the country of origin.

then compare it with the following which suggests they are actually the seller:
However, we accept that the customer has the right to return the product to Portus Digital in the event of a genuine fault within the guarantee period.

Just buy from HDEW and you'll get your VAT invoice and a 3 year guarantee without any apparent worries and enjoy your kit! ;)
 
Indeed Peter. Much simpler to buy from HDEW and know you are buying from the vendor.

Via Portus, Validhirst are effectively acting as a sales agent, but offering terms on top as well (return during guarantee period) - wonder if thats a legal angle being a UK vendor? Are they the vendor or simply a sales agent? It all kind of suggests a tie in with a separate supplier elsewhere (HK, or wherever the goods originate). Wonder who they are?

The money angle is still puzzling though. If the payment is made to, and taken by Portus, who are simply a trading name for Validhirst, and Validhirst are indeed above the VAT threshold (not checked t/o figures etc on them, as I am more interested in the business model than the company itself), then any invoice from Portus should by nature of it being a trading name for Validhirst, include VAT.... (whether stated or not)

Unless the payment is actually made to their trading partner overseas (Worldpay payment goes directly overseas), and that's where the sales contract lies? In which case I'd rather know that in advance of purchase.

I agree with you - buying from HDEW cuts out all the unknowns. Interesting business model it is though.
 
Peter B said:
According to the OP, Portus is a trading title of Validhirst (or Validhurst?) Ltd which is a British company registered at Companies House. This doesn''t necessarily mean a huge amount as you can buy a registered company for very little money, say a couple of hundred pounds or maybe less. It looks like they will either sell you a bit of kit with vat paid or else they will act as your agent for you to import the same bit of kit where you may or may not be caught for vat and possibly import duty.

Things get a bit less clear when you look at some of their other terms such as:
When you buy a product on our site you recognise that Portus Digital is sourcing the product on your behalf and making it available for you to import directly from the country of origin.

then compare it with the following which suggests they are actually the seller:
However, we accept that the customer has the right to return the product to Portus Digital in the event of a genuine fault within the guarantee period.

Just buy from HDEW and you'll get your VAT invoice and a 3 year guarantee without any apparent worries and enjoy your kit! ;)
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Personally think I will avoid both from now
 
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Just a question to @VickyMids , where is the link behind Portus and HDEW?

You've said:
PortusDigital dont manetion any links but the Credit Card transaction comes up as

VALIDHURST Ltd T/A Portus Digital
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My credit card statement tells a different story:

PORTUS DIGITAL INTERNET GBR

and HDEW appears as:

WWW.HDEWCAMERAS.COM WALLINGTON GBR

In fact the only link i can find between PORTUS and HDEW is this thread and the OP's statement of which other posters are making judgement calls on their business practices on the say so of the OP.

J Clements appears only as a director on Validhirst and HDEW which is perfectly normal.

http://companycheck.co.uk/director/904156500/MRS-JACQUELINE-CLEMENTIS

Companies house doesn't have any information about Portus, nor any relationship between Validhirst and them. Doesn't mean they don't have one obviously!

I'm happy to be proven wrong but i think some posters may need to check their facts before leaping to assumptions.
 
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Sharky said:
Just a question to @VickyMids , where is the link behind Portus and HDEW?
You've said:

In fact the only link i can find between PORTUS and HDEW is this thread and the OP's statement of which other posters are appear to be making judgement calls on their business practices on the say so of the OP.
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I have clearly based my assumptions on the OP and the link they stated - which I certainly did not intend to come over as judgement calls on business practices in any way. That is if you meant my posts.

If the original information on the link to Validhirst is incorrect, I am still very intrigued to find out how Portus (link to Validhirst or not), a seemingly UK operation, are able to act as a sales agent for parties unknown overseas, where and how payments are made and taken, and who the sales contract is with.

Why you may rightly ask? Well, I own and run a business that imports well in excess of 10m usd of products from SE Asia every year , and if I could add another string to my bow, I would certainly take it!
 
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What I find odd is that the OP has stated:

VickyMids said:
PortusDigital dont manetion any links but the Credit Card transaction comes up as

VALIDHURST Ltd T/A Portus Digital


Anyway have decided to avoid Portus as I need UK VAT Receipt for tax and warranty.
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How would they know that the credit card transaction states this is they haven't purchased from there? Unless of course they were in the process of ordering and this came up during the process?
 
mike_6480 said:
What I find odd is that the OP has stated:



How would they know that the credit card transaction states this is they haven't purchased from there? Unless of course they were in the process of ordering and this came up during the process?
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I did place an order, then when Ifound ou they would not supply a VAT Receipt I requested a refund and cancellation as I need a VAT Receipted purchase, was my fault as they were UK Based I made the incorrect assumption it would be VATd

It was when the CC Refund Receipt came through online it showed Validhirst T/A Portus Digital




When I challenged Portus on the link to Validhirst and HDew, this was the reply I got

Portus Digital is an overseas company and therefore unable to issue VAT invoices. Validhirst is a UK Third party agent in the UK that we use to process refunds. We don't know how HDEW transact business as they are nothing to do with Portus but as they are a UK company we expect they supply VAT invoices.


Thanks for your email and we are sorry we couldn't help you in this instance.


Which seems to fly in the face of the known facts that Validhirst are HDEW!!!
 
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Al1944 said:
Who cares!
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Actually I do, most of my family work for HMRC and I really dont fancy being stiffed buying an item that has been imported without tax being paid on it. (Or being declared as $10 of Toy parts as per Panamoz!).. Serial numbers do get checked coming back into the UK from time to time,
 
I've bought from HDEW many a time and in most cases turned up myself and they've been going for years.

If they want to have another company and work (probably under correct, legal, advice) to take advantage of the various opportunities that HMRC (legally) gives companies to reduce their tax burden then there is nothing wrong with that. Being a Cassandra and damaging a trustworthy UK based supplier (who offers VAT receipts) can be considered slanderous which in effect IS a violation of the law.

If you feel they are violating a law somewhere contact your local tax office for assistance.
 
Gel said:
I've bought from HDEW many a time and in most cases turned up myself and they've been going for years.

If they want to have another company and work (probably under correct, legal, advice) to take advantage of the various opportunities that HMRC (legally) gives companies to reduce their tax burden then there is nothing wrong with that. Being a Cassandra and damaging a trustworthy UK based supplier (who offers VAT receipts) can be considered slanderous which in effect IS a violation of the law.

If you feel they are violating a law somewhere contact your local tax office for assistance.
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I would very much like to take advantage of these tax opportunities that you indicate, so discussion surrounding how it works is neither libellous nor against the law. Slander btw, is a verbal construct. The discussion has given a little more information to approach my accountants to shed light on exactly how it operates. If there is a benefit, I do hope to find it. The more information I have before that approach, the better, I would say.

Is it wrong to discuss this? How can the discussion damage the supplier (I am now assuming you mean HDEW)? I even advocated buying from HDEW rather than Portus in post #20 to cut out all the unknowns. I cannot see anything libellous nor illegal in anything the OP has posted either, although granted the OP has a differing final stance on the discussion.
 
Agreed.

Some folk get a bit too touchy about some discussions & points highlighted, which surely helps us all make an informed choice.
 
braddersmd said:
I would very much like to take advantage of these tax opportunities that you indicate, so discussion surrounding how it works is neither libellous nor against the law. Slander btw, is a verbal construct. The discussion has given a little more information to approach my accountants to shed light on exactly how it operates. If there is a benefit, I do hope to find it. The more information I have before that approach, the better, I would say.

Is it wrong to discuss this? How can the discussion damage the supplier (I am now assuming you mean HDEW)? I even advocated buying from HDEW rather than Portus in post #20 to cut out all the unknowns. I cannot see anything libellous nor illegal in anything the OP has posted either, although granted the OP has a differing final stance on the discussion.
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I was responding to comment #26 and 28 - It's a bit Daily Express IMO
 
Gel said:
......
If you feel they are violating a law somewhere contact your local tax office for assistance.
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Local tax office! What are they? lol
The OP appears to have family contacts within HMRC, but for anyone else who suspects evasion/fraud/dodgy dealings, by any individual or business, it's fairly easy to use this link;
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/reportingfraud/online.htm
 
Gel said:
I was responding to comment #26 and 28 - It's a bit Daily Express IMO
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Well, post #26 did shed a little light - it confirmed that Portus are indeed an Australian company, and given that Portus pty used to be called HDEW pty, also confirms that there is a definite link between the two companies there and here. So for me, that one was useful. Perhaps there is a trade agreement between the UK and AU that I'm unaware of.

I can see what you mean about #28, but we are all entitled to our opinions on import duty/VAT and HMRC in general. For what it's worth, I would do anything to mitigate tax as long as it's legal. HMRC do not have a divine right to take tax that you are not obligated to pay.
 
So slightly off topic, the kit these type of companies get in is it genuine?
 
ashgas said:
So slightly off topic, the kit these type of companies get in is it genuine?
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Yes, they buy from a local distributor or the local subsidiary. When you factor in the local currency (vs $ usually), taxes, business rates, wages etc. it just means they 'usually' end up paying less for the same kit a UK retailer will buy and also due to lower overheads can work to small margins.
 
VickyMids said:
Actually I do, most of my family work for HMRC and I really dont fancy being stiffed buying an item that has been imported without tax being paid on it. (Or being declared as $10 of Toy parts as per Panamoz!).. Serial numbers do get checked coming back into the UK from time to time,
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As someone has already said buy UK stock from an UK shop if your so worried :confused:
 
Bought a nikon d7100, and speedlight from them earlier this year, after speaking to their very friendly staff on the phone. I can't remember dealing with a better company than these guys. I was informed all the way, and sent an email telling me the time of delivery, within a 2hr window. Thay both arrived in that time, and both have english manuals, unlike Amazon have sometimes done, with their's being German for the same speedlight. I'll certainly be using them again

Staff Edit: We take a pretty dim view of personal attacks on this forum, please refrain from such comments
 
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