Mentoring

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steve2109

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Steve
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Hi all

Not sure if this is the right area to post but looking for some advise on mentoring. Have been looking at mentoring for a while now to try to help me advance in photography and look at getting a business started but it's no small outlay and I am trying to gauge how other people have found it and if you think it's beneficial ? Any feedback is appreciated

Steve
 
OK, 44 views and no replies, so very much FWIW here's my thoughts on this, speaking as one of many who turned a hobby into a full-time job as a documentary wedding photographer.

I honestly can't see why you might need a mentor to "advance in photography" when there is the internet. Everything you can ever want to know about the technicalities is there online, at no cost. As to the application of techniques, much of that is simply down to trial and error, and after that it's just practice, practice and more practice. One thing I would suggest though is that at some stage you swallow any pride you have, thicken your skin if it's on the thin side, and put up pictures for critique. Bear in mind though that many of the responses will come from enthusiastic amateurs who are perhaps more concerned with technicalities than how a picture might be improved so it's more appealing to potential customers.

As to mentoring on the business side of things, if you're the sort of person who likes to buy lots of kit, who has no problem with the concept of going into debt, who is not particularly hot on people skills and who has no experience of self-employment, it's perhaps worthwhile if the mentor is recommended by something like the FSB. Personally I'd be very wary of spending any significant amount of money on mentoring, but then again I'm inherently cynical. That's what comes of many years of being self-employed :cool:
 
Serendipitous Sid said:
OK, 44 views and no replies, so very much FWIW here's my thoughts on this, speaking as one of many who turned a hobby into a full-time job as a documentary wedding photographer.

I honestly can't see why you might need a mentor to "advance in photography" when there is the internet. Everything you can ever want to know about the technicalities is there online, at no cost. As to the application of techniques, much of that is simply down to trial and error, and after that it's just practice, practice and more practice. One thing I would suggest though is that at some stage you swallow any pride you have, thicken your skin if it's on the thin side, and put up pictures for critique. Bear in mind though that many of the responses will come from enthusiastic amateurs who are perhaps more concerned with technicalities than how a picture might be improved so it's more appealing to potential customers.

As to mentoring on the business side of things, if you're the sort of person who likes to buy lots of kit, who has no problem with the concept of going into debt, who is not particularly hot on people skills and who has no experience of self-employment, it's perhaps worthwhile if the mentor is recommended by something like the FSB. Personally I'd be very wary of spending any significant amount of money on mentoring, but then again I'm inherently cynical. That's what comes of many years of being self-employed :cool:
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:agree:
It seems to me the biggest challenge for most is the business part. IMO An average photographer with good business skills will do a lot better than a brilliant photographer with no business skills and experience. You need to look at your own strengths and weaknesses, plan to correct your weaknesses and exploit your strengths, do a detailed business plan complete with actions and not only numbers. You may need to 'buy in' some business expertise in terms of training etc. It is very hit and miss trying to get a good business consultant, most in my experience 'just use your watch to tell you the time'. You will need to know how to market your business, basic accounting and the pros and cons of being a sole trader vs ltd company, be aware of what insurance you need, etc etc.
 
Thanks for the replies, food for thought, the photography side doesn't worry me its more the business side and how to advertise and win work, I guess a descent portfolio is a big part of it but at present I have done 1 wedding and a few portrait sittings so variation of shots is limited ! I don't believe in just buying the best kit for buying sake, I am currently using a Canon 40D with 17-40L, 50 1.8 and a 55-250 which has so far been more than adequate, its just the progression side that I am worried about


Steve
 
BBR said:
An average photographer with good business skills will do a lot better than a brilliant photographer with no business skills and experience.
Click to expand...

Indeed - but I'd actually go one step further and say that for a social photographer, people skills are just as important as business skills (which ATEOTD aren't exactly rocket science). There's a lot of truth in the old saying that "people buy people" ...

Anyhow, have you checked out this thread?
 
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I can't believe I'm writing this, but how about joining SWPP?

They might have just what you're looking for. Although if I'm being honest, people who struggle to make a start in people photography rarely have what it takes to succeed.
 
I think he's saying that people who struggle to get started in people photography are usually lacking in people skills - which is why they struggle.

and people skills aka being able to remain likeable and freindly whilst getting people to do what you want them to do , are really down to character so while its possible to learn techniques and methods to improve to an extent , those who don't have these skills intially are going to be lacking the inherent thing they need to suceed in their chosen field
 
thanks, but could the person who put it please explain, i posted on here for some positive advise not cryptic comments ! I never stated I have people issues, I was hoping to get some ideas and pointers on getting of the ground. Thanks for the SWPP suggestion, that is one I have been looking at

Steve
 
I have a name and I wasn't being cryptic.

Read through the 'how I got started in wedding photography' thread, read up any forum for 12 months. Most people with a 'decent camera' generally get approached by colleagues, relatives, friends of friends, basically many photographers have to spend time telling people why they don't shoot weddings, rather than finding someone who wants one shooting. It gets tough to find customers when your prices get to mid range and higher, because you can't throw a stone up the high street without hitting 5 people who 'shoot weddings'.

If you're not being approached to shoot weddings for free, why do you think that is?

The other point I picked up? A 40d and a couple of lenses doesn't even begin to make a start on sufficient gear to shoot professionally. None of us believes in frivolous buying, but this is a business you want to open, you need the gear to do the job and you need backups for that gear. Standing up mid ceremony and announcing you'll have to refund your customers because your camera is borked, that's not a strategy. Explaining why you can't do those head and shoulders shots with the dreamy background because you don't frivolously buy gear, that'll not fly either.

If you posted for 'positive advice' you never made it clear. I thought you'd simply posted for advice.
 
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The main pointer I'd give you on getting off the ground is to stop trying to run before you can walk

if you need to develop your portfolio , because basically you don't have one , then hire some models and take some pictures (or if money is really tight find some photogenic friends) - you need to get to the point where you have a decent and convincing portfolio before you start looking at selling your services.

and while your kit is just about adequate for portraits , if you are going to do weddings I'd strongly suggest a faster long lens as the 55-250 is really not up to it, and get a second body (50Ds are under 300 quid now on places like MPB), also you don't mention lighting, but at a minimum I'd get a couple of flash guns

spending your money on essential kit , and on models - plus maybe buying some key books, dvds or even a course or two ( DG phototraining - a member here- is supposed to be good on the business of wedding photography though I've no personal experience of his course) , will be a far better investment than paying for mentoring
 
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Phil, no offense I should have said your name, apologies .. As for kit, I am about to invest in a 5D mark 2.. I was asking what people thought about mentoring that's all, the wedding thread is very good and full of good tips
 
The issue with 'mentoring' is complex and falls into a few camps:
Training courses, the good ones, will teach you one way of doing something, it might work for you if you follow it well.

Work for someone else, this is the tricky one, people don't want to train up the competition, so it means you have to travel, you have to commit something in return, and it also helps if you're bringing something more than dumb labour. So learn about how to set up lights and stuff to save the main photographer time.

Joining organisations will open up a world of training opportunities, seminars, etc, this will give you maybe too much information, you'll still have to work out what'll work for you.

Do it Yourself. There is loads of information on the internet, on forums, in Facebook groups etc. Not just information but inspiration too, there are loads of people who's learning has been almost exclusively this.

All of the above still requires most of the work to come from you, people with drive succeed, show me a rich photographer and I'll show you someone driven with great marketing skills. Look through the work in the people and portraits section here, there's as much good work done by amateurs as pros. There are hundreds of quite successful people photographers who's work is boring at best. Decent photography skills and great business skills beats great photography skills and decent business skills every time.

You can't learn 'drive' though, and whilst business skills are a personality thing, there are still things you can learn, and like everything, practice and determination will pay off.

The short answer though: no-one is going to mentor you as in 'sit next to me and listen and I'll give you the keys to the castle requiring no effort from you'. It'll all require research, effort and practice.
 
Thanks Phil, I have decided against the mentoring as I don't feel the costs are justified. Took your advise and have been having a good look round the web and think i will join the SWPP and use the resources there. I think I will be on a long learning curve !!

Thanks again

Steve
 
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