Nikon AMP Glow / Noise .... Some may be interested

bbg404

bbg404

Messages
1,302
Name
Ben
Edit My Images
Yes
Morning all I've spent hours searching the internet for answers to what I thought was a fault with my camera and even started a different thread on this forum about it.

I'm more in to day time photography but been edging to stars and Astro stuff and for normal photography I love my Nikon d5200 really rate the camera but for Astro and night time .... Higher ISO and longer shutter speeds im not happy..... anyway I've noticed it a few times but just ignored it but as im pretty much house bound at the moment with 3 slipped disks I was processing some images from a night out photographing the Milky way and it caught my eye again so ive set about getting to the bottom of it as it really did spoil one of my images.

any way done a few tests and tried a couple different combinations and some PP and still wasn't really happy so I set about asking on forums and Facebook about this problem I got an email off Nikon Owners Magazine saying they'd be happy to help in any way they could so...... I sent them a list of combinations I used on the night out and in the house and they replicated them with a new out the box d5200 and also I asked them to do the same with the d7100 ... (the reason I chose that camera was I believe its the best before stepping up to FF)

the difference is actually amazing
Lens cap on
ISO3200
F22
30 Seconds
Then in Photoshop I've just increased the Highlights and Shadows +100 and the Whites and Blacks +50 just to emphasize the AMP glow without going ott.

So D5200 the AMP glow is prominently in the bottom left of the image spreading to the middle and fading, the D7100 is so much less but evenly spread across the image making it less of an issue.

D5200 by Ben Irving Photography, on Flickr

D7100 by Ben Irving Photography, on Flickr

I found it interesting hopefully some of you do as well, and if anyone is thinking of upgrading to the d5200 for Astro DONT, go one step further and get the d7100, my self ill be waiting till the new d7*** comes out hoping it has the tilt and shift screen.

Thanks for reading hope some of you find it interesting.
 
Last edited:
Maybe increase your aperture and decrease your ISO setting and expose the pictures properly? The sensor may have problem with high ISO...also why is d5200 specifically better for astro than other bodies? I take it you have the long exposure noise reduction turned on for the d5200 and d7100 in the tests?
 
increasing the aperture and decreasing the ISO would be completely counterproductive for astro photography. Not sure what you mean be expose properly those settings mentioned are a good base for starting to shoot stars but seen as the d5200 is rated higher than a coupe of my friends camera and there's is capable of those settings I stick with it all ive done is find out why some of my images are pink in the corner and now I've found out why. also turning on the noise reduction would also be counter productive as the Nikons are know by astronomers as "star eaters" because of Nikons noise reduction.

I don't think I once mentioned the d5200 being specifically better at anything
 
ricky1980, generally speaking for astrophotography you always use the widest aperture possible and the highest ISO possible to maximise the amount of light captured from what are incredibly faint objects. In camera noise reduction is also not feasible for 2 reasons, firstly because you will usually want to set up for multiple exposures which will thence stacked, and a 5 minute exposure for example will then take 10 minutes. Secondly as in camera noise reduction can remove stars which are effectively single pixels and so NR is usually done in post. So a "proper" exposure is exactly what the OP has done with the exception of the aperture, and in this case this was done as a test to identify a problem he had noticed in "proper" exposures.
 
Gary Coyle said:
You, who else, sure you dont want to start a rumour about this also being an issue on the new D750, after all it seems to be pretty glitch free for now.
Click to expand...
Not quite sure what you're seeing here Gary. Has Ben made D750 comments somewhere else?

This thread seems to just be saying that a D5200 has some amp glow while the d7100 doesn't. Though I think it'll vary from body to body.

Though a missing comma in the OP does make it look like you SHOULDN'T buy the D7100.
 
Last edited:
DBT85 said:
Not quite sure what you're seeing here Gary. Has Ben made D750 comments somewhere else?

This thread seems to just be saying that a D5200 has some amp glow while the d7100 doesn't. Though I think it'll vary from body to body.

Though a missing comma in the OP does make it look like you SHOULDN'T buy the D7100.
Click to expand...

No mention at all of any other camera other than the one I own and the one I thought of getting! Both tested and all I've presented is the results!

In not sure it will vary ... As the amp glow comes from how they are made my guess would be all d5200 would make this amp glow as I've found other people using them for Astro having the same trouble

Yes point taken it does read exactly like that!
English literature has and never will be my strong point!! I have amended my mistake
 
Last edited:
Favorisio said:
ricky1980, generally speaking for astrophotography you always use the widest aperture possible and the highest ISO possible
Click to expand...
That's what I am saying. Maybe 3200 is too high for 5200 also f22 is madness...so going back to the OP's original setting those test shots could have been done at f5.6 and ISO 600. And I suspect you will not find the exposure having the same issue.

Also still not seen any proof or reasons why 5200 is specifically good for astro.

I understand the HR eating stars but at 30s+ exposure so you want extra constellations and galaxies???

Also I think I will get similar issues on my d610 if I push the ISO to 6400+...so what I am saying is OP may have too high expectations of the 5200 sensor rather it having issues. I think the generally advice for astro is to get the sensor that is most sensitive and produces least amount of noise, end of.

Lastly the original test isn't definitive at all. It mixed so many variables into the same sweeping conclusion. The setting used as I have said has something to do with ISO setting as it has a lot to do with noise. But more importantly is this also attributed to long exposures. I would imagine if the latter is dictating then you would have problems getting decent astro photos.

So a more scientific approach please :)
 
Last edited:
ricky1980 said:
That's what I am saying. Maybe 3200 is too high for 5200 also f22 is madness...so going back to the OP's original setting those test shots could have been done at f5.6 and ISO 600. And I suspect you will not find the exposure having the same issue.

Also still not seen any proof or reasons why 5200 is specifically good for astro.

I understand the HR eating stars but at 30s+ exposure so you want extra constellations and galaxies???

Also I think I will get similar issues on my d610 if I push the ISO to 6400+...so what I am saying is OP may have too high expectations of the 5200 sensor rather it having issues. I think the generally advice for astro is to get the sensor that is most sensitive and produces least amount of noise, end of.

Lastly the original test isn't definitive at all. It mixed so many variables into the same sweeping conclusion. The setting used as I have said has something to do with ISO setting as it has a lot to do with noise. But more importantly is this also attributed to long exposures. I would imagine if the latter is dictating then you would have problems getting decent astro photos.

So a more scientific approach please :)
Click to expand...

Yes it Cleary is but as I’ve mentioned as I know people with lower rated cameras I’ve stuck with 3200 and wanted to know what the pink was now that’s been established i know that its just the 5200 cant handle 3200iso …. The tests I done were at 2.8 and get the same results as f22 as the lens cap was fitted.
Again not once have I mentioned that the 5200 is specifically good for astro I bought the 5200 cause I liked it and love it for day time photography and as I’ve mentioned only started moving over to astro I didn’t choose this camera for astro. I’m just using it as its what I’ve got.
Not necessarily just the milkyway and its f2.8 at 1600-3200 the exposure time is 20-30 seconds at 11mm to get no star trailing and record as many stars as possible.
Yes but you could say that about any camera but I’m not cause I’ve never used one and only done the test on the camera I own and the camera I wanted to own.
How is it not definitive??? It shows at iso 3200 at 3seconds the amp glow of a d5200 would spoil an image as its all in the bottom corner yet at the same setting on a d7100 it wouldn’t is its spread all over and a lot more faint so my point is if anyone is having this issue which I’ve found a number of people are when using it for astro and if anyone was thinking of upgrading to the d5200 for astro or milkyway shots my advice would be hold out and get the d7100
 
Sorry, I am not being pendantic or anything but your OP sayings 30s @ f22 not 3s @ f2.8. What you are saying its the same but so far you would be appearing to make the presumption. I would be interested in seeing the f2.8 3s raw file exposure with the adjustment you have made I.e. highlights and shadows.

I assumed the problem will be associated with high ISO and long exposure. I would be extremely concerned if this is the same for 1/30s or even 3s exposure for ISO 1600 and below. Which means the images procured would be unusable.

Also from your original post you specifically mentioned "people thinking of going to 5200 for astro and stop". I am on mobile can't quote exactly but the way it read was that the 5200 had a specific function that was fit for purpose of astro photography. So much like to know how and how that's all.

It is not conclusive either until you can isolate if 1) it is the way you like to expose pictures I.e. seriously pushing the bounds of capabilities of the camera 2) the problem you experience is due to sensor sensitivities 3) if it is generally to do with high exposure 4) if it has anything to do with the fact that you have NR turned off due to the long exposures. 5) if it is a common issue among d5200 as you only tested your body...currently I cannot think of 6th or 7th or 11th point but I am sure that there are other factors involved which affects the phenomenon you have experienced.

I will wait till be corrected if there is a general feeling that d5200 does have a flaw, as you said it yourself that you couldn't find anything in the intra web relating to your issue. Which to me sounds like user error as opposed to hardware issues.
 
Last edited:
Wouldn't be better to cover the camera with a blackout fabric. Is the bottom left pink no due to the lens cap letting a bit of light through from this corner?
 
Lemaildetom said:
Wouldn't be better to cover the camera with a blackout fabric. Is the bottom left pink no due to the lens cap letting a bit of light through from this corner?
Click to expand...
That was 6th...thank you!
 
Last edited:
Lemaildetom said:
Wouldn't be better to cover the camera with a blackout fabric. Is the bottom left pink no due to the lens cap letting a bit of light through from this corner?
Click to expand...

I had similar thoughts, light leak from bottom left corner.
 
Yes sorry cause those test results are not from my camera they were done by Nikon owners magazine …. I found this problem shooting the milkyway at 3200, f2.8, 30s I’ve never mentioned a 3s exposure 20-30s I said.
No only at night with high iso and 20s+ the only reason I done this Is cause I wanted to know if it was a fault or just the 5200 characteristics as a friends d60 doesn’t have this problem.
It reads to stop people going for the 5200 if they intend to shoot astro as a good set of setting its 3200iso, f2.8, 20-30. And 2 d5200s have proved they cant cope with these settings so I’m saying save and go for the d7100.
There’s no other way to expose wide field astro images you need to gather as much light from faith stars as mentioned above by favorisio. Again as favorisio mentioned turning the NR off is more beneficial in astro as it would have to repeat every exposure you take which would spoil any star trails. Well maybe I’ve found the issue using it for what I use it for and found its not capable of being used for astro but also as mention I didn’t choose this camera for its capability’s in astro imaging this is a new rout I’m taking having already had the camera.
Oh and one other thing light leak???? I really don’t think so considering I found the issue as stated taking photos of the milkyway originally and the only way to replicate that is by covering the lens with the cap so if its there in the darkness of night without the lens cap on it has nothing to do with light leak
 
Doubt it's a light leak, my Sony A7R did the same but it would also show it in normal exposures if there was shadow in that patch of frame.
 
Aperture has no meaning in this test, there is no lens fitted.

And I very much doubt light leak from the lens cap, they go inside the camera and around the lens fitting. If it's light leak then its from the VF. Frankly the images look just like amp noise from any camera that is showing it.
 
DBT85 said:
Aperture has no meaning in this test, there is no lens fitted.

And I very much doubt light leak from the lens cap, they go inside the camera and around the lens fitting. If it's light leak then its from the VF. Frankly the images look just like amp noise from any camera that is showing it.
Click to expand...

Sorry I didn't get the fact that there wasn't a lens fitted! In which case there should not be a F stop... Neither a lens cap...
But yeah that first picture is horrible there's something wrong there.
 
Favorisio said:
ricky1980, generally speaking for astrophotography you always use the widest aperture possible and the highest ISO possible to maximise the amount of light captured from what are incredibly faint objects. In camera noise reduction is also not feasible for 2 reasons, firstly because you will usually want to set up for multiple exposures which will thence stacked, and a 5 minute exposure for example will then take 10 minutes. Secondly as in camera noise reduction can remove stars which are effectively single pixels and so NR is usually done in post. So a "proper" exposure is exactly what the OP has done with the exception of the aperture, and in this case this was done as a test to identify a problem he had noticed in "proper" exposures.
Click to expand...

Widest aperture perhaps but I have seen some stunning results taken with 100 ISO. I'm not convinced a high ISO is the way to go!
 
Light leak is also caused when its from the ports, eg USB port, card door etc. Thats my understanding of the subject, the light gets into the camera and onto the sensor due to poor sealing of the camera and ports.
 
Swanseajack said:
Light leak is also caused when its from the ports, eg USB port, card door etc. Thats my understanding of the subject, the light gets into the camera and onto the sensor due to poor sealing of the camera and ports.
Click to expand...

Correct. Like the X-T1 initial batch.
 
bbg404 said:
No mention at all of any other camera other than the one I own and the one I thought of getting! Both tested and all I've presented is the results!

In not sure it will vary ... As the amp glow comes from how they are made my guess would be all d5200 would make this amp glow as I've found other people using them for Astro having the same trouble

Yes point taken it does read exactly like that!
English literature has and never will be my strong point!! I have amended my mistake
Click to expand...


I have it too with my D5200. Only found out this was the problem today I thought at first it was my first efforts at astrophotography.. I was told it was from not using a viewfinder cover which I did......was the lens which it wasnt.......it could be totally fixed with editing which it isnt.......was atmospheric light contamination which it wasnt.

Then over the weekend I tried out my Lee Big Stopper for the first time. Then I saw it again. I realised then it was to do with the slow shutter and camera heating up. I have discovered from the weekend using the 10 stop filter that it wasnt the high ISO that caused it. It seems it was just from slow shutter & heating up. It does seem to be a problem with this model. It doesnt seem to do it when its a one off and the camera is cold

Im really disappointed as I really wanted to do milky way shots and use my big stopper.
You can see in the shot below it didnt happen with a 9 stop filter because it was very cold and I only took this one slow shutter shot



CASCADING STREAM FROM MT COOK-1 by traceyfd, on Flickr
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top