Nikon D810

sk66 said:
One last attempt:
A crop doesn't change the performance of the sensor in any way... it doesn't matter if it's done in camera or in post. What DOES change is the resulting IQ of the final image and what you can do with it. This should be obvious to anyone.

This is the problem with "the ratings" etc... You have to understand that the performance ratings (DR/ISO/everything) are relative to every other camera when using the *entire image* to do *exactly the same thing.* The D800 is rated much better than the D7000 because you are using 36MP to generate an 8x10 compared to using 16MP to generate it. If you crop the D800 image down to 16MP (DX) you would then be comparing 16MP vs 16MP to create an 8x10... the D800 would perform/rate much worse in the comparison because you've thrown away 1/2 the image/data and you've removed a large portion of it's advantage. It would rate/perform very much the same as the D7000.

The performance ratings of the sensor are for the entire sensor combined... they are not for a portion of the sensor nor "per pixel."
Not understanding this leads people to think they don't have to worry about composition or using a longer lens. They think they can just crop the image and still get the same performance from the sensor, but you can't. (at a pixel level you can, at a final image level you can't)

The D800E/810 have an additional "advantage" in that they've modified/removed the AA filter which can allow the camera to resolve finer detail assuming the AA filter is the limiting factor in the image taking process. This advantage is more significant when displaying the image at closer to 1:1 and it is less significant when downsampling.

When comparing the same generation of technology a FF sensor will always win over a smaller sensor because it is using a larger area to collect more "information." And in low light larger pixels on the same size sensor will always win because each pixel can collect more "information."
There are both advantages and disadvantages to using a larger number of smaller pixels... There are reasons why the top cameras for action/low light (1Dx/D4s) are under 20MP and it's not because they couldn't have given them more. And there are reasons why one would choose a D800 over a D4 irrespective of cost.
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If I have understood you this time and your posts are really confusing me. You are talking about downsising / sampling or reducing the image quality Yes ?

In my opinion, there is absolutely no need to do this. What's the point in downsising and why are you doing this ?

I'm advocating sticking to full frame and don't crop for maximum quality !
 
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Gary Coyle said:
I know mate, however ive never seen the point in 2 different card slots, especially when they are of massivly different speed formats, when using the SD as a back up you can only write to the CF card as fast as the slower SD card, pretty pointless in some respect
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Fully agree mate, was it a space issue that stopped Nikon using the 2 cf slots?
 
Gary Coyle said:
Dont think so as theyve employed a silly 2 different card format on the D4/4S with QXD and CF
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D3/s seemed the best option to me, running two cf slots.
 
I've sent it back and cancelled the finance as they don't have any in store only at their distribution center as they haven't sent them to the stores yet (apart from pre orders) so will be nearly a week to replace..Stuff that.

Bought another one from local camera shop. So am happy again.

It looks like the "curtain" got stuck down.

But I'm happy again now and wow. Only taken some indoor shots but everything looks soo much nicer than the D7000. And wide so very wide.
 
mattyg said:
I've sent it back and cancelled the finance as they don't have any in store only at their distribution center as they haven't sent them to the stores yet (apart from pre orders) so will be nearly a week to replace..Stuff that.

Bought another one from local camera shop. So am happy again.

It looks like the "curtain" got stuck down.

But I'm happy again now and wow. Only taken some indoor shots but everything looks soo much nicer than the D7000. And wide so very wide.
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All's well that ends well, hope you enjoy your holiday and get some good shots. It's good that your local store helped you out.

OK folks, the grey imports appear to be a bargain but it's a case of buyer beware. When things do go wrong as in this case it can be a real pain returning them to china. I'm not taking the morale high ground here but there are pros and cons..,.........
 
Blank_Canvas said:
OK folks, the grey imports appear to be a bargain but it's a case of buyer beware. When things do go wrong as in this case it can be a real pain returning them to china. I'm not taking the morale high ground here but there are pros and cons..,.........
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Which 'grey' suppliers of cameras force you to return them to "China", (or Hong Kong)?
 
Blank_Canvas said:
If I have understood you this time and your posts are really confusing me. You are talking about downsising / sampling or reducing the image quality Yes ?
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Not exactly... anytime you use a larger MP camera to do the same thing as you would do with a smaller MP camera you are "downsizing" (or enlarging less). It's not a process, it's a result. And it's the result (downsizing/less enlarging) that creates the performance characteristics associated with the camera (i.e. ratings).

I'm advocating sticking to full frame and don't crop for maximum quality !
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Absolutely. Because if you do crop you are giving up performance capability (ratings). But sometimes (often?), with something like a D8xx, you have a lot more capability than you actually need/use.
 
Gary Coyle said:
Dont think so as theyve employed a silly 2 different card format on the D4/4S with QXD and CF
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I agree it's silly to have the two card format. Personally I wish they had just gone w/ dual XQD's In the D4/s and CF's in the D8xx.
But I have to admit that I like using the SD cards as my Mac has a reader built in.
 
sk66 said:
Absolutely. Because if you do crop you are giving up performance capability (ratings). But sometimes (often?), with something like a D8xx, you have a lot more capability than you actually need/use.
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Great, thank you, I thought so. Everything else is superfluous as far as I am concerned.
 
gramps said:
Which 'grey' suppliers of cameras force you to return them to "China", (or Hong Kong)?
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I can't remember exactly, but some non Nikon UK items have had to be sent back to Hong Kong. Trouble is there are pages on this debate, not just on this forum but others too. I would like to clarify that for my own knowledge. The Panamoz deal is looking very tempting at £1,928.50
Compare and contrast that to the average UK price of £2,669 !
 
QXD is so fast that I wish they'd just gone with those in both the D4s and D810. Instead of splitting card types, especially using the SD card. What a waste of time.
 
XQD ;) looked like a great format, a cross between SD and CF, but when the originators of the format, Sony don't use it, and afaik, no other devices use it apart from the D4 and D4S, then it may be an expensive dead format which D4/S users may have to buy.
 
It does look dead in the water as far as still cameras go, but a friend of mind who heads up an outsourcing video recording company uses Sony PXW-Z100 4k recorders and they're extremely popular. Just wish they'd gone more mainstream as it's an amazingly quick format, in the right conditions 180mb/s.
 
Ady N said:
Anyone?
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Just use anything capable of 45MB/sec or so, as that seems to be the maximum the D800 can write to the cards anyway if my experience is anything to go by. If you use slot B to back up slot A, then it's slower still as the files are written sequentially, not simultaneously. There's no need to put stupid squillion MB/sec cards in it. I just use normal Sandisk Extreme.. the 45MB/sec SD ones, and 65MB/sec CF ones. The camera seems to clear the buffer every bit as fast as when using faster cards, and they have no problem recording maximum quality 1080P video. The only advantage of buying faster cards is faster transfer times at home if you use a card reader... but ONLY if you have USB 3.0 in your computer, otherwise that's at a paltry 12MB/sec max.
 
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gramps said:
Which 'grey' suppliers of cameras force you to return them to "China", (or Hong Kong)?
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Panamoz return stuff to HK often from what I've read. HDew do not. Returning to HK isn't the end of the world though. When I bought my D800E it arrived from HK within 48 hours.
 
My understanding is that Panamoz items can be returned/repaired via the UK, DigitalRev and HDEW both use Lehmann for repairs I believe.
 
Pookeyhead said:
Panamoz return stuff to HK often from what I've read. HDew do not. Returning to HK isn't the end of the world though. When I bought my D800E it arrived from HK within 48 hours.
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I just bought a D7100 from Panamoz last week as i need a crop camera for a while, it wont focus properly with any of my lenses, it arrived yesterday and TNT are picking it up from my home on Monday morning to return it direct to Hong Kong, probably banged about in transit, it arrived only in its original box and some paper wrapping, no bubble wrap or anything, Panamoz were great though and accepted the return request with no issues and even emailed me all the pre paid documentation.
 
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Gary Coyle said:
I just bought a D7100 from Panamoz last week ...... probably banged about in transit, it arrived only in its original box and some paper wrapping, no bubble wrap or anything.....
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Shipping a camera box wrapped only in paper is madness. Did Panamoz say why they hadn't used proper packaging?
 
Ozei said:
Shipping a camera box wrapped only in paper is madness. Did Panamoz say why they hadn't used proper packaging?
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Nope, i ordered a camera and lens, they were sent by different couriers, lens was perfct and packaged with great care. Cant complain, Tina has been great with the return.
 
Possibly posted from different destinations. (Asia & UK `warehouse` stock?)
 
So some bad news on the D810 reliability front, #2 D810 which arrived yesterday started playing up within 100 shots today. The autofocus works intermittently, is perfect then starts hunting, locks on what it thinks is focus (but isn't), focus spot flashes then its off hunting again. While its doing this I've turned the camera on and off, but to no avail. Taking the lens off made no odds, I've tried a few different lenses on it all with the same result, indoors, outside, after a few dozen pics it starts doing the same thing again.

Its being collected on Monday, should have a replacement by Thursday, still not good, guess I'll being hanging onto my D3s for a while longer. I was shooting a wedding when this happened, thankfully had the sense for switch it out at the first sign of trouble.
 
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psenior1 said:
So some bad news on the D810 reliability front, #2 D810 which arrived yesterday started playing up within 100 shots today. The autofocus works intermittently, is perfect then starts hunting, locks on what it thinks is focus (but isn't), focus spot flashes then its off hunting again. While its doing this I've turned the camera on and off, but to no avail. Taking the lens off made no odds, I've tried a few different lenses on it all with the same result, indoors, outside, after a few dozen pics it starts doing the same thing again.

Its being collected on Monday, should have a replacement by Thursday, still not good, guess I'll being hanging onto my D3s for a while longer. I was shooting a wedding when this happened, thankfully had the sense for switch it out at the first sign of trouble.
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That's not at all good. Sorry to hear that. I wonder what the problem is.
 
I wonder why they ditched the LCD auto brightness control on the D810.
 
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Gary Coyle said:
when using the SD as a back up you can only write to the CF card as fast as the slower SD card, pretty pointless in some respect
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They are not written simultaneously, but sequentially, so it would still massively slow down the writing even if it had 2x CF slots when backing up A to B.
 
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Pookeyhead said:
A load of low resolution images, yeah.. all processed... which tell you nothing whatsoever.


Full res real world images and un-edited images here (high quality JPG).....

http://www.dpreview.com/previews/nikon-d810/11

comparative test image raw files available here...

http://www.dpreview.com/previews/nikon-d810/9
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He asked for images taken with the d810 not set up studio test samples, which you have posted multiple times.
People actually want to see images that others have produced with certain equipment not just test images.
 
pmac said:
He asked for images taken with the d810 not set up studio test samples, which you have posted multiple times.
People actually want to see images that others have produced with certain equipment not just test images.
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Yes, would love to see photos taken by anyone here that actually has the D810 not the review websites if possible :)
 
pmac said:
He asked for images taken with the d810 not set up studio test samples, which you have posted multiple times.
People actually want to see images that others have produced with certain equipment not just test images.
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If it's not to evaluate anything... then why? I'm not on about studio test shots either. I've just posted links to real life images... just full res ones that can be evaluated properly. Low res, processed images are useless... they may as well have been taken with anything for all the use they are.
 
IQ quality is near identical to D800e, just search for pics from that, there are plenty around. I've not had chance to shoot anything for fun yet with the D810 and don't post clients images on public forums...
 
tracybradbury said:
Yes, would love to see photos taken by anyone here that actually has the D810 not the review websites if possible :)
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Does it matter who shot the image? If all you're doing is evaluating technical quality, surely it makes no difference. Why assume the images taken by someone on here would be any different?

I've looked at so many raws from both cameras now, that I can confidently say there's absolutely no difference in image quality between the 800E and the 810... nada... zip. It woudl be impossible to tell them apart in a blind test.
 
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Pookeyhead said:
Does it matter who shot the image? If all you're doing is evaluating technical quality, surely it makes no difference. Why assume the images taken by someone on here would be any different?

I've looked at so many raws from both cameras now, that I can confidently say there's absolutely no difference in image quality between the 800E and the 810... nada... zip. It woudl be impossible to tell them apart in a blind test.
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Is there even supposed to be any improvement, ive not followed Nikons blurb on this other than the supposed better AF, other than the AF i really dont see how the D800/800E could have been improved anyway (forget video)
 
Gary Coyle said:
Is there even supposed to be any improvement, ive not followed Nikons blurb on this other than the supposed better AF, other than the AF i really dont see how the D800/800E could have been improved anyway (forget video)
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They reckoned an extra stop in ISO performance, but in reality, that turned out to be the ISO64 "native" ISO and not an extra stop of high ISO performance that everyone was expecting. Other than that, no... they've not really made any claims that it's superior in terms of image quality. Seems to be frame rates, AF, and video features.. and a few minor cosmetic tweaks.
 
OOI, can anyone here recommend a decent third-party grip for the D810/D800/D800e ?

Meike/Pixel seem to get ok reviews but are there any other good options out there ?
 
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