Nikon D810

redhed17 said:
The camera manufacturers, and Nikon especially in the DSLR segment, are killing the market by releasing too many cameras too quickly imho. They confuse the chap in the street with too many cameras with relatively minor differences, they have old stock still in shops and warehouses adding to the confusion. Do I get a D3100/3200/3300 or a D5100/5200/5300, because they are all still available. :confused: :rolleyes: And because of depreciation, all pretty similar in price.

Bringing out cameras so close to each other depreciates cameras quicker. You would hope that they think they know what they are doing, (doubt it) and they are getting a sales boost from each new release, but at a certain point even 'Joe Ignorant in the street' will catch on about buying any camera new, when they depreciate so quickly. At that point what happens when they don't get the expected sales kick? :thinking:

Only Nikon can say whether D800 sales had dropped to a point where there was a need for a new model, but I didn't hear many longing for an upgrade. Most D800 users were happy with their cameras as far as I could see. Yes there would always be minor gripes with any camera, but nothing major bar the initial manufacturing faults. For many it is still better than the 5DIII, its only competitor, and there doesn't seem to be a 5DIV on the horizon to try and better it anytime soon. Leave it a bit longer and there could have been more significant new features to entice more D800 users to upgrade, or even better a 5DIV should it appear.

And then as soon as they release the D810 there is talk of another FX camera to potentially confuse FX users like the DX users. :rolleyes: Madness. :confused:
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Well said, I agree there is too many DSLR's on the market from Nikon current, they really need to slow down, It doesn't feel 5mins since the D800 came out and now theres a D810 :confused: It amazes me how many FF DSLR's are now hitting the market, and the DX Cameras as you say there is LOTS of choice, There is also the D7100/D7000 and even a D300s new still on Jessops, and now the release of another FF Camera coming soon making four different choices of full frame cameras to pick from, Personally I think this upgrading all the while is pointless, I always say focus more on glass than body's I'am still Happy with my D3 & D800 combo, It would have to be a major feature for me to change them...
 
Pookeyhead said:
Not entirely, no, but it does seem to be the most mission critical thing for companies in similar sectors to get their new stuff out there absolutely ASAP because they know they can make a killing on the day zero, and pre order upgrade junkies. For some reason they feel the need to release more cameras in less time than I can ever recall since I started paying attention to such things around 35 years ago. There isn't really a need for all these cameras but there seems to be a market for them, and all the while all Nikon users seem to is whine that they want a D300S replacement, then a D700 replacement... The D800 is too slow... the D810 is still too hi res.. we want this, we want that. If they don't provide the products they're screwed, and if they rush to sate the hunger of the ravenous pack, then they're cutting corners in testing products fully before release. Of course.. they could invest in more resources and staff... but then the camera would cost more, and then everyone would moan about that.

The problem is... everyone wants the moon on a stick. How many ****ing cameras choices do people bloody well want? LOL
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Individuals dont want more than 1 or 2 choices but there are lots of individuals who want different choices from each other, how many friggin models of car can we buy let alone the few models of camera
 
Gary Coyle said:
Individuals dont want more than 1 or 2 choices but there are lots of individuals who want different choices from each other, how many friggin models of car can we buy let alone the few models of camera
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I agree completely... but while many would argue that it's silly to think so, cars are as much an expression of one's personality as they are a means of transport. Cameras though?
 
Pookeyhead said:
I agree completely... but while many would argue that it's silly to think so, cars are as much an expression of one's personality as they are a means of transport. Cameras though?
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In reality David there are relativly few models, pick any other consumer piece of tech and models available massivly outnumber DSLS's

Tablets, hundreds of models
Compact cameras, thousands and thousands of models
Hi-Fi, thousands
TV's, Millions of models and more every single month
Toasters, look in the Argos book, bloody hundreds
 
Gary Coyle said:
In reality David there are relativly few models, pick any other consumer piece of tech and models available massivly outnumber DSLS's

Tablets, hundreds of models
Compact cameras, thousands and thousands of models
Hi-Fi, thousands
TV's, Millions of models and more every single month
Toasters, look in the Argos book, bloody hundreds
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And that's ridiculous too.

Nikon's range does seem a little bloaty compared to others.. you have to admit.
 
Pookeyhead said:
And that's ridiculous too.

Nikon's range does seem a little bloaty compared to others.. you have to admit.
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Its simply about market share, if Nikon and Canon had 5 models each for sale, likelyhood is sales would be split 50-50 between both manufacturers, if Nikon made 20 models and Canon only 5 then Nikon would expect their market share to rise to somewhere around 80% of the total sales, its absolutly no secret thats how manufacturers or any consumer product work.
 
Gary Coyle said:
Its simply about market share, if Nikon and Canon had 5 models each for sale, likelyhood is sales would be split 50-50 between both manufacturers, if Nikon made 20 models and Canon only 5 then Nikon would expect their market share to rise to somewhere around 80% of the total sales, its absolutly no secret thats how manufacturers or any consumer product work.
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Again, I agree. Doesn't stop it being ridiculous though. It's just an arms race, and it's fuelled by our insatiable appetite for new shiny things, when in reality, there's nothing wrong with the old shiny things.
 
Gary Coyle said:
Its simply about market share, if Nikon and Canon had 5 models each for sale, likelyhood is sales would be split 50-50 between both manufacturers, if Nikon made 20 models and Canon only 5 then Nikon would expect their market share to rise to somewhere around 80% of the total sales, its absolutly no secret thats how manufacturers or any consumer product work.
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But don't Canon have the larger share of the DSLR market don't they? So all these Nikon models don't seem to be working. :thinking:

The number of models you have on sale makes no difference if the opposition have a better product. If it was all down to the number of cameras a manufacturer has then Sony would have selling more than they have been.

You'd think these manufacturers would have learned from the compact camera sector, yes, the mobile phone with camera has bit into their sales severely, but having loads of very similar cameras hurt more than it has helped imho. It is nice to have choice, if you can make the right decision amongst all the choices. ;)
 
Pookeyhead said:
Again, I agree. Doesn't stop it being ridiculous though. It's just an arms race, and it's fuelled by our insatiable appetite for new shiny things, when in reality, there's nothing wrong with the old shiny things.
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Didn't you say you were close to buying a D810? You've had D800, D800e and a D610. Never mind you've got access to MF/LF.

Nothing wrong with technological progress. There's enough demand so they'll plug the supply.
 
ST4 said:
Didn't you say you were close to buying a D810? You've had D800, D800e and a D610. Never mind you've got access to MF/LF.

Nothing wrong with technological progress. There's enough demand so they'll plug the supply.
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If there's a need for it. I could easily find a very good use for 1080P at 60fps, yes, but I don't need it, hence the reticence. I'm not rushing out to buy one though, and in all likelihood, I probably won't. I've never been close to buying one :) Close is when I sit here browsing websites with a credit card within arm's reach.. that's close :)
 
Can't comment on the APC models as I pay little attention to them, but I really don't see how the D750 is a case of Nikon flooding the market. There's a gap in their lineup for it. The gap is so significant that some photographers have swapped their system. Had they released a faster, 24mp D800 alongside a 36mp D800e the gap would've been plugged at the start.
 
redhed17 said:
But don't Canon have the larger share of the DSLR market don't they? So all these Nikon models don't seem to be working. :thinking:

The number of models you have on sale makes no difference if the opposition have a better product. If it was all down to the number of cameras a manufacturer has then Sony would have selling more than they have been.

You'd think these manufacturers would have learned from the compact camera sector, yes, the mobile phone with camera has bit into their sales severely, but having loads of very similar cameras hurt more than it has helped imho. It is nice to have choice, if you can make the right decision amongst all the choices. ;)
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You failed to notice i started my sentence with an "IF"
 
Pookeyhead said:
And that's ridiculous too.

Nikon's range does seem a little bloaty compared to others.. you have to admit.
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Off the top of my head Canons is just as bad. 100D, 1200D, 700D, 70D all consumer and I am pretty sure there's plenty of 1100D, 600/650D and 60D* on sale still. Once you get out of the camera specialists the older kit is still selling well. At least the Nikon kit is sold globally with the same name, no Kiss or Rebel nonsense.

People keep mentioning the long gap an no renewal thing with the D700 and D300(s). Canons 7D is around 7 years old too now, and it's only this month reliable leaks are coming out about it being replaced. Even those seem to indicate it will be less of a straight mark 2 upgrade and more of a different beast . From what I've seen 7D and D300 users have in large numbers gone full frame to the 5Diii and D6/7/800. So whilst there is a market I would suggest it's shrinking, I would wager the 7Dii will reflect this by not being a direct replacement.


*just looked Canon even list the 60D as a current model still : http://www.canon.co.uk/For_Home/Product_Finder/Cameras/Digital_SLR/enthusiasts/index.aspx
 
I don't see what the problem is!? More models = more choice. Photography has so many disciplines within it that it's very unlikely that a lineup of one or two cameras will suit everyone. The D810 is certainly not a swiss-army-knife camera that will suit the majority of shooters.
 
decigallen said:
I don't see what the problem is!? More models = more choice. Photography has so many disciplines within it that it's very unlikely that a lineup of one or two cameras will suit everyone. The D810 is certainly not a swiss-army-knife camera that will suit the majority of shooters.
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You could cover every possible need with far less cameras.

D3300 - beginner or casual happy snapper
D7100 - Advanced user/General purpose DX
D610 - Advanced user/General purpose FX
D810 - Professional - Large high quality images for print... studio, landscape, general purpose commercial photography
D4 - Professional - Sports, press, action, wildlife

Let's be honest... That would do it. That's still way more than anyone actually NEEDS. Nikon have just realised that if they invent a need that doesn't exist, people will convince themselves it's needed. The ridiculous Df is the prime example. No one needs that. They just want it, and more often than not convince themselves there's a really good reason for it. We all do this BTW, and this is not saying people are stupid, but Nikon are just exploiting this characteristic.

I challenge anyone to explain why the 5 cameras I've listed here could not cover every possible professional or amateur scenario imaginable (that you would use a small format DSLR for).

I'd love it if one day a new camera was released and the world gave a collective yawn. Maybe then Canon, Nikon, Sony et al would stop wasting resources on slightly different camera models we don't need and really push R&D where it actually matters.
 
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Markets are created on the principle of two things (a) does anyone want it ? (b) does anyone need it ? - The Sinclair C5 failed because of factors a & b.
 
Blank_Canvas said:
Markets are created on the principle of two things (a) does anyone want it ? (b) does anyone need it ? - The Sinclair C5 failed because of factors a & b.
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If you're clever, and market well, you can convince anyone they need something though. If the C5 was marketed as a quirky, convenient transport for large warehouses or any other scenario where the segway is currently used there's no reason why it wouldn't have sold. The problem however, is that Clive Sinclair, while being a great inventor, was utterly crap at marketing, and instead, he tried to convince us that we should all drive to work in one... which was laughable.

So I disagree. The "want" is often created by the market and ad men as much as it naturally exists, and people buy things they have no need for all the time. No one NEEDS a One Direction album, but countless millions bought one. The vast majority in this thread don't NEED a Nikon D810 either. They just want one.
 
Pookeyhead said:
If you're clever, and market well, you can convince anyone they need something though. If the C5 was marketed as a quirky, convenient transport for large warehouses or any other scenario where the segway is currently used there's no reason why it wouldn't have sold. The problem however, is that Clive Sinclair, while being a great inventor, was utterly crap at marketing, and instead, he tried to convince us that we should all drive to work in one... which was laughable.

So I disagree. The "want" is often created by the market and ad men as much as it naturally exists, and people buy things they have no need for all the time. No one NEEDS a One Direction album, but countless millions bought one. The vast majority in this thread don't NEED a Nikon D810 either. They just want one.
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I agree. But the Sinclair failed because (a) nobody wanted it and (b) nobody needed it.
 
Blank_Canvas said:
I agree. But the Sinclair failed because (a) nobody wanted it and (b) nobody needed it.
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LOL.. because it was being marketed as a viable alternative to cars, trains and buses, so of course no one wanted it. No one wanted to be seen dead in it. No one wants to drive to work on a Segway either. If it was marketed as a cheap, convenient way of moving around large warehouses or logistics centres, then I beg to differ. I think it would have sold. After all the Segway is far more inconvenient, and you actually need to practice before you can use it without falling on your ass, and they're still doing very nicely thank you very much :) Either is not necessary though, as we have a device called a "bicycle".

Do some research on how marketing works. You'd be surprised how gullible we all are.

Getting way off topic now though.
 
Pookeyhead said:
You could cover every possible need with far less cameras.

D3300 - beginner or casual happy snapper
D7100 - Advanced user/General purpose DX
D610 - Advanced user/General purpose FX
D810 - Professional - Large high quality images for print... studio, landscape, general purpose commercial photography
D4 - Professional - Sports, press, action, wildlife

Let's be honest... That would do it. That's still way more than anyone actually NEEDS. Nikon have just realised that if they invent a need that doesn't exist, people will convince themselves it's needed. The ridiculous Df is the prime example. No one needs that. They just want it, and more often than not convince themselves there's a really good reason for it. We all do this BTW, and this is not saying people are stupid, but Nikon are just exploiting this characteristic.

I challenge anyone to explain why the 5 cameras I've listed here could not cover every possible professional or amateur scenario imaginable (that you would use a small format DSLR for).

I'd love it if one day a new camera was released and the world gave a collective yawn. Maybe then Canon, Nikon, Sony et al would stop wasting resources on slightly different camera models we don't need and really push R&D where it actually matters.
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No there isn't a scenario or event I can think of where the above camera's wouldn't do.

But why does a D4 cost as much as it does. A lot of wedding togs don't need 36mp files, yet complain the D6X0 AF isn't upto the job, and don't want to plump for a D4. To some extent the AF upgrade to D810 fixes this and the camera is a good alrounder, just with massive prints so an HD upgrade is probably needed.

If the D4 was about a grand cheaper, more uptake would be done and there'd be no need for this latest action camera or alternative if D6(X)0 got a better AF (its a bit hit and miss in low light) the pro uptake of that camera would be better and there'd be no need for this D750
 
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ST4 said:
No there isn't a scenario or event I can think of where the above camera's wouldn't do.

But why does a D4 cost as much as it does. A lot of wedding togs don't need 36mp files, yet complain the D6X0 AF isn't upto the job, and don't want to plump for a D4. To some extent the AF upgrade to D810 fixes this and the camera is a good alrounder, just with massive prints so an HD upgrade is probably needed.

If the D4 was about a grand cheaper, more uptake would be done and there'd be no need for this latest action camera or alternative if D6(X)0 got a better AF (its a bit hit and miss in low light) the pro uptake of that camera would be better and there'd be no need for this D750
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Thats why there is still many people using the Nikon D3s
 
ST4 said:
Can't buy a new one though, although I fully get your post, and the upgrade path to that is D4/D4S which is mega bucks compared to a D810.

I wonder if the D3X will be looked back on as a missed opportunity.
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Yep the D3s to D4s is quite a leap, The D3x is a great camera also but the price is still ridiculously high, theres a ex demo model D3x at Harrison Camera currently for £2,950 which is a lot! Compared to you can get a good used D4 for around £3,200 mark, and a New D810 for £2700! The D3x would be a great camera to have but for the price its just not justifiable...
 
Joeturner11 said:
Yep the D3s to D4s is quite a leap, The D3x is a great camera also but the price is still ridiculously high, theres a ex demo model D3x at Harrison Camera currently for £2,950 which is a lot! Compared to you can get a good used D4 for around £3,200 mark, and a New D810 for £2700! The D3x would be a great camera to have but for the price its just not justifiable...
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D3X has great AF, a bit more MP for slightly larger printing abilities, full pro body too. It seems to be thing everyone is wanting, AF, pro body, 24mp, good ISO performance. I wonder if a trick is being missed by pro wedding/action shooters.
 
ST4 said:
D3X has great AF, a bit more MP for slightly larger printing abilities, full pro body too. It seems to be thing everyone is wanting, AF, pro body, 24mp, good ISO performance. I wonder if a trick is being missed by pro wedding/action shooters.
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ISO performance is woeful in comparison to the D3S and tops out at 1600
 
Pookeyhead said:
Let's be honest... That would do it. That's still way more than anyone actually NEEDS. Nikon have just realised that if they invent a need that doesn't exist, people will convince themselves it's needed.
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Worked for Apple
 
Chris Wilson said:
But it's a really great camera to use in the right situation and I wouldn't dream of getting rid of mine.
On the other hand regrettably I've just cancelled my D810 - I'm not going to be part of Nikon's R & D again - I had enough trouble with my D800:mad:

cheers, cw
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Absolutly no doubt its a great bit of kit and IQ at ISO 800 and under is superb, good file sizes and excellent AF
 
ST4 said:
D3X has great AF, a bit more MP for slightly larger printing abilities, full pro body too. It seems to be thing everyone is wanting, AF, pro body, 24mp, good ISO performance. I wonder if a trick is being missed by pro wedding/action shooters.
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I think the new D750 will be a more appropriate answer for this "niche."
 
sk66 said:
I think the new D750 will be a more appropriate answer for this "niche."
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Or if they gave the D610 a decent AF when they upgraded it from the D600 it would have already been filled.

As it were, the D750 sounds a fine device and an ideal for those who don't want 36mp and a faster frame rate.
 
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Had a wake up call yesterday re the difference between this 'hi-res' camera and 'normal' cameras regarding shutter speeds. Fortunately it was not my main shooting camera so not a major disaster but I have realized it needs treating differently. How have other users found the transition and how have you made the adjustment?
 
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