Photocrati vs ProPhoto

[Phil V]

This thread has become tiresome as I've mentioned quite a few times now that premium wordpress themes have in-built customisation options, much like Pro Photo.

And every time you repeat that, someone who's used OTHER premium themes and Pro Photo tells you that Pro Photo is better. However you have never used Pro Photo and just keep reiterating the same thing.

The title of the thread is 'Photocrati vs Pro Photo' you're entitled to suggest an alternative. But no one else is obliged to change their own mind based on your opinion. I can't see why you don't understand that. My children had learned that by the time they hit 16. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but you can't force other people to agree with you, you're perfectly entitled to look down on us if you like though.

There are thousands of happy Pro Photo customers around the world, you're entitled to believe we're all idiots, but you can't force us to agree with you.:nuts:

 

[theurbanclown]

And every time you repeat that, someone who's used OTHER premium themes and Pro Photo tells you that Pro Photo is better. However you have never used Pro Photo and just keep reiterating the same thing.

The title of the thread is 'Photocrati vs Pro Photo' you're entitled to suggest an alternative. But no one else is obliged to change their own mind based on your opinion. I can't see why you don't understand that. My children had learned that by the time they hit 16. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but you can't force other people to agree with you, you're perfectly entitled to look down on us if you like though.

There are thousands of happy Pro Photo customers around the world, you're entitled to believe we're all idiots, but you can't force us to agree with you.:nuts:

I'm not trying to persuade anyone who is happy with Pro Photo. It just baffles me that people are happy with it considering the alternatives, that's all.

 

[boyfalldown]

its not really worth the level of arguing over, surely? I was asked specifically why I'd moved from one theme to another when the thread was resurrected. I gave my reasons for doing so.

Other then that its just opinions as to which theme is 'better' then another, surely as long as it works for you thats all that matters

 

[theurbanclown]

surely as long as it works for you thats all that matters

Agreed. If people are happy with Pro photo that's great, I was never trying to persuade other wise as Phil would lead you to believe - just making people aware of the other, cheap options, should they be looking at creating a website for themselves.

 

[EOS_JD]

This thread has become tiresome as I've mentioned quite a few times now that premium wordpress themes have in-built customisation options, much like Pro Photo.

Let me confirm I've used other themes (helped other photographers with theirs) and ProPhoto's is in a different league.

 

[EOS_JD]

Agreed. If people are happy with Pro photo that's great, I was never trying to persuade other wise as Phil would lead you to believe - just making people aware of the other, cheap options, should they be looking at creating a website for themselves.

There's cheaper everything and you mostly get what you pay for. Same goes for photographers, tablets, televisions, hair dressers, make up aretists, models, etc, etc, etc

And funnily enough web sites!

ProPhoto may cost more as it is at a level way above most other wordpress themes and very important for many, it will save you time (time is money). Well worth the small outlay.

 

[theurbanclown]

There's cheaper everything and you mostly get what you pay for. Same goes for photographers, tablets, televisions, hair dressers, make up aretists, models, etc, etc, etc

And funnily enough web sites!

ProPhoto may cost more as it is at a level way above most other wordpress themes and very important for many, it will save you time (time is money). Well worth the small outlay.

You can't of looked very hard. I'm yet to see a Pro photo theme that doesn't need a good amount of customisation. There are a lot of superb premium wordpress themes that won't involve much customisation, if any at all. People keep banging on about this, to the point I may do a demo of just how simple a premium wordpress site is to setup.

We obviously just have different tastes.

 

[Phil V]

You can't of looked very hard. I'm yet to see a Pro photo theme that doesn't need a good amount of customisation. There are a lot of superb premium wordpress themes that won't involve much customisation, if any at all. People keep banging on about this, to the point I may do a demo of just how simple a premium wordpress site is to setup.

We obviously just have different tastes.

And despite the fact that 'everyone's free to choose', you can't help insisting on the last word and telling us all that we're wrong.

How very open minded on the subject you've proved yourself

Agreed. If people are happy with Pro photo that's great, I was never trying to persuade other wise as Phil would lead you to believe - just making people aware of the other, cheap options, should they be looking at creating a website for themselves.

Yet it appears its me that has the wrong idea about you

You still haven't got the important bit, we're not saying other sites aren't easy or good. But that ProPhoto is easier and time is money. What your time is worth is your business, but to those who've tried other premium templates and said ProPhoto is superior, you're saying they're wrong:bonk:

They've tried both, you haven't. But of course you're the expert:bang:

 

[EOS_JD]

And despite the fact that 'everyone's free to choose', you can't help insisting on the last word and telling us all that we're wrong.

How very open minded on the subject you've proved yourself



Yet it appears its me that has the wrong idea about you

You still haven't got the important bit, we're not saying other sites aren't easy or good. But that ProPhoto is easier and time is money. What your time is worth is your business, but to those who've tried other premium templates and said ProPhoto is superior, you're saying they're wrong:bonk:

They've tried both, you haven't. But of course you're the expert:bang:

Bang on Phil. Yes there's many great looking themes around - some very snazzy but to get things the way you want it can involve more work and there's not much that can be customised to make it look different. There's many different Prophoto sites around even some using the same theme but what is consistent is the slideshow galleries and that's what normally gives it away the site is a ProPhoto one.

But the galleries work beautifully and are simple to create and adding grids and the like are pretty simple .

In ProPhoto things are just easier and how the clown can knock it without having even used it defies logic.

It's not just about the best looking site but the most user friendly and time saving. For an experienced user there's a lot you can change around (you only have to see the premium themes to see what you can create) Even for someone with zero experience on the web they could have a site up in a pretty short period of time. And the support is superb.

Most premium themes do have a level of customisation but it comes nowhere near Prophoto.

Ben - If you don't like the general look of the ProPhoto sites there's nothing wrong with saying that. So long as you're prepared for the extra work you may have to put in to maintain something else - that clients would probably not even notice anyway.

 

[Sebastian]

I use Graphpaperpress themes for my websites. If I would like to slash some cash on a fancy theme, I would go for Flotheme (new thing) or ProPhoto. Good luck with your decisions

 

[EOS_JD]

I've seen a few using the Flotheme and the grid like appearance over their images. I don't like the look personally and having very large images required for the theme to look good leaves them open to being copied.

But obviously just a personal preference.

 

[theurbanclown]

Flotheme is also very expensive for what you get.

Here you go, I just made this in about 30-40 mins, after reading the instrcutions provided. That time included adding the content and customising it, all of which was done only using the in-built theme options similar to Pro photo.

Absolutely no coding knowledge used.

A responsive, great looking site for £25. Bargain. http://boycalledben.co.uk/example/

 

[Phil V]

Flotheme is also very expensive for what you get.

Here you go, I just made this in about 30-40 mins, after reading the instrcutions provided. That time included adding the content and customising it, all of which was done only using the in-built theme options similar to Pro photo.

Absolutely no coding knowledge used.

A responsive, great looking site for £25. Bargain. http://boycalledben.co.uk/example/

Is there something I've missed Ben?
Has anyone said using any other theme couldn't produce a decent site? (erm... No)
Has anyone said other themes aren't simple to use? (erm... No)

What we're saying Ben is that there's nothing as customisable and easy to use to create a very effective site as ProPhoto. It doesn't matter if You can create a great theme from a free or £20 or £50 template. You will not have the same level of customisation that you get with ProPhoto, nor will you get the same support.

From what I can see the theme offers little in the way of customisation Having looked at the samples which are identical (so how this compares to Pro Photo I can't imagine). For context ProPhoto offer 24 variations of just the header area. That's not colour changes or fonts, that's 24 actual different layouts of just the header area.

Do other premium themes do this (none of the ones I looked at did)? So if I like the theme you picked but I want my logo elsewhere? Do I buy a different theme or have to code it myself? Genuinely confused - as all you've proved with that £25 theme is that I'd have wasted £25! Which we've all told you already

What about the contact form, it's open to abuse on the sample - do I need a plugin? How about the 'about us' where does it live, is it part of the home page and available everywhere giving massive SEO help or is it just a static page - which is much less useful for SEO?

Works OK and looks Great aren't enough for people looking for an all in one solution. Customisable and user friendly and offering great support are. Your example proves none of that. But then we told you it wouldn't. You could have saved your £25.

Forgot to mention, beyond the 24 masthead layouts, you can add custom items too above or below.

 

[EOS_JD]

Ben
Like Phil says you are missing the argument altogether. There's thousands of Wordpress themes that look very nice. You can even make the basic themes look ok (I've built a couple of sites). For the average user though some of this stuff is scary and that's where prophoto excels.

Great looking slideshows, galleries, multiple ways of making the whole theme change. With a theme like the one you showed, you're pretty much stuck with that layout.

One of the reasons some sites look similar is because people (like me) are a little lazy and don't bother too much to change things around too much. I really should look at that though!

Out of interest you said that theme options were similar to Prophoto......! How do you know it's similar to ProPhoto if you've never used it? I could almost stake my mortgage on it that the options will fall miles short of the depth of Prophoto.

That's not to say you can't create nice sites with non-prophoto templates. Of course you can - Just that Prophoto allows you to do things quickly and easily and all with zero knowledge of web building!

 

[theurbanclown]

Is there something I've missed Ben?
Has anyone said using any other theme couldn't produce a decent site? (erm... No)
Has anyone said other themes aren't simple to use? (erm... No)

What we're saying Ben is that there's nothing as customisable and easy to use to create a very effective site as ProPhoto. It doesn't matter if You can create a great theme from a free or £20 or £50 template. You will not have the same level of customisation that you get with ProPhoto, nor will you get the same support.

From what I can see the theme offers little in the way of customisation Having looked at the samples which are identical (so how this compares to Pro Photo I can't imagine). For context ProPhoto offer 24 variations of just the header area. That's not colour changes or fonts, that's 24 actual different layouts of just the header area.

Do other premium themes do this (none of the ones I looked at did)? So if I like the theme you picked but I want my logo elsewhere? Do I buy a different theme or have to code it myself? Genuinely confused - as all you've proved with that £25 theme is that I'd have wasted £25! Which we've all told you already

What about the contact form, it's open to abuse on the sample - do I need a plugin? How about the 'about us' where does it live, is it part of the home page and available everywhere giving massive SEO help or is it just a static page - which is much less useful for SEO?

Works OK and looks Great aren't enough for people looking for an all in one solution. Customisable and user friendly and offering great support are. Your example proves none of that. But then we told you it wouldn't. You could have saved your £25.

Forgot to mention, beyond the 24 masthead layouts, you can add custom items too above or below.

I haven't ever suggested that Pro Photo isn't highly customisable. I know it is. I'm just saying the level of support and level of customisation is of premium wordpress themes is of almost identical level, yet over a minimum of £100 cheaper. I'm also yet to see a pro photo site that looks particularly good on a smartphone or iPad, the site I just did looks excellent on both.

If you wanted your logo elsewhere, you buy a different theme. Or you could pay someone and it would cost you about £5. That's what I like about premium wordpress themes - they're optimised. If you don't like a theme, you look for a different one that you do like. Same as Pro Photo, really. If you want to know if something is possible to edit with the theme without accessing the code, before you buy it, you ask the author. It takes 2 minutes.

The theme I just did an example of has loads and loads of in-built options - some for simple color changes, some to help add content, some for big layout changes. I would post a photo of the options but to go through each category would take a fair while.

The contact form is in built to the theme and has the option of captcha if you want. The theme also comes with a host of custom built plugins and handy shortcodes to things like pricing tables and the contact form into pages.

With regards to the about page thing, you can put it wherever you like as many times as you like. Just like you can on any site built on wordpress.

As I've said before, I'm not saying Pro photo is bad, but there will be people who will automatically opt for it because of good marketing and because some top photographers use it, which makes people adopt the attitude of "if it's good enough for them...", without actually exploring other, equally as good, more unique and much cheaper alternatives. I'm just trying to make people aware of the alternatives and the ease of using them - not neccessarily you, or anybody else who is a happy Pro photo user, but people who don't have an opinion of either yet.

 

[theurbanclown]

Sebastian, if you like flothemes stuff then have a look at this theme.

http://www.wpexplorer.me/premium/photopro/

 

[EOS_JD]

I haven't ever suggested that Pro Photo isn't highly customisable. I know it is. I'm just saying the level of support and level of customisation is of premium wordpress themes is of almost identical level, yet over a minimum of £100 cheaper.

It's NOT and nowhere near the same. You've never even used it!!!

I'm also yet to see a pro photo site that looks particularly good on a smartphone or iPad, the site I just did looks excellent on both.

To be hoinest that theme (Zito) really isn't that great in the first place!

If you wanted your logo elsewhere, you buy a different theme.

Or you could pay someone and it would cost you about £5.

So for every option that's already included with ProPhoto that you may want to change you'd be as well with that as wasting money on an inferior theme platform.

That's what I like about premium wordpress themes - they're optimised. If you don't like a theme, you look for a different one that you do like.

and pay more money...... and still end up with an inferior platform and support.

Same as Pro Photo, really.

So not the same as Prophoto at all.

If you want to know if something is possible to edit with the theme without accessing the code, before you buy it, you ask the author. It takes 2 minutes.

Find one you like see it's not editable and spend (waste) more time (and money) searching .

The theme I just did an example of has loads and loads of in-built options - some for simple color changes, some to help add content, some for big layout changes. I would post a photo of the options but to go through each category would take a fair while.

It still won't come close to Prophoto's!

The contact form is in built to the theme and has the option of captcha if you want. The theme also comes with a host of custom built plugins and handy shortcodes to things like pricing tables and the contact form into pages.

With regards to the about page thing, you can put it wherever you like as many times as you like. Just like you can on any site built on wordpress.

Most themes have many options. Just not as simple to use and infinately changeable as Prophoto.

As I've said before, I'm not saying Pro photo is bad, but there will be people who will automatically opt for it because of good marketing and because some top photographers use it, which makes people adopt the attitude of "if it's good enough for them...", without actually exploring other, equally as good, more unique and much cheaper alternatives.

Actaully you're wrong. I was drawn to it as I'd tried and already wasted money on premium themes that were too difficult to change (without spending time and money) to get it the way I wanted and even then it was still difficult to keep it going.

Tried Prophoto free and loved it! Just so simple and the options to change the site are huge!

I'm just trying to make people aware of the alternatives and the ease of using them - not neccessarily you, or anybody else who is a happy Pro photo user, but people who don't have an opinion of either yet.

I am trying to save people the hassle of potentially wasting their money - on inferior (but perhaps snazzy looking) themes and saving them money by saving them lots of time.

 

[Phil V]

I haven't ever suggested that Pro Photo isn't highly customisable. I know it is. I'm just saying the level of support and level of customisation is of premium wordpress themes is of almost identical level, yet over a minimum of £100 cheaper. I'm also yet to see a pro photo site that looks particularly good on a smartphone or iPad, the site I just did looks excellent on both.

If you wanted your logo elsewhere, you buy a different theme. Or you could pay someone and it would cost you about £5. That's what I like about premium wordpress themes - they're optimised. If you don't like a theme, you look for a different one that you do like. Same as Pro Photo, really. If you want to know if something is possible to edit with the theme without accessing the code, before you buy it, you ask the author. It takes 2 minutes.

The theme I just did an example of has loads and loads of in-built options - some for simple color changes, some to help add content, some for big layout changes. I would post a photo of the options but to go through each category would take a fair while.

The contact form is in built to the theme and has the option of captcha if you want. The theme also comes with a host of custom built plugins and handy shortcodes to things like pricing tables and the contact form into pages.

With regards to the about page thing, you can put it wherever you like as many times as you like. Just like you can on any site built on wordpress.

As I've said before, I'm not saying Pro photo is bad, but there will be people who will automatically opt for it because of good marketing and because some top photographers use it, which makes people adopt the attitude of "if it's good enough for them...", without actually exploring other, equally as good, more unique and much cheaper alternatives. I'm just trying to make people aware of the alternatives and the ease of using them - not neccessarily you, or anybody else who is a happy Pro photo user, but people who don't have an opinion of either yet.

I won't point-for point, but once again you're wrong on most assumptions about ProPhoto.

But why didn't you show how customisable the site is? Because the site you built looks exactly the same as the site on their themeforest page. Just show me how customisable the header is. We can do a direct comparison.

The latest version of Prophoto creates an automatic mobile site (I haven't upgraded yet - despite the fact you believe that all Pro photo users buy every upgrade and a selection of add-on themes. You'll find as we keep telling you, that most users stick with the template as it comes because it's as customisable as we need.
So how's the header customisation?

 

[theurbanclown]

Jim, it's quite easy to take things out of context to suit your argument.

Phil, have you actually seen a Pro Photo mobile site? They look pretty dreadful.

I'm done now though. I've mentioned some positives about Pro photo, and the fact neither of you have anything good to say about premium wordpress themes, suggests you haven't used it to it's full capabilities. I have seen some fairly decent implementations of a Pro photo site, but it's become quite clear from both of your comments and websites, that we just have very different standards and ideas when it comes to what a good website looks like.

 

[Phil V]

So we'll never know the answer to the single important question - that we can't find without buying the theme. How much customisation can you do to the header?

Here's a screenshot from ProPhoto's help files

Showing 24 layouts of the header, plus you can add a custom line above or below. No coding, just a radio button and add your content.

 

[Phil V]

Sorry I missed that you'd admitted it couldn't be done.

So to sum up - you can spend a lot of money on premium themes, then some more money paying someone to change them, then some more money on a different theme when you've given up. Or you can buy Pro Photo. Isn't that where we started? And where you told me I was wrong?

 

[EOS_JD]

Jim, it's quite easy to take things out of context to suit your argument.

What did I take out of context?

and the fact neither of you have anything good to say about premium wordpress themes, suggests you haven't used it to it's full capabilities.

Actually that's not true. If you are prepared to spend the time with it andget it right there are many very good themes out there. I worked on a very nice one a friend had but it was just much more difficult to edit and find things in comparison to ProPhoto. I appreciate all may not be so difficult but Prophoto is more expennsive for a reason. No other cheap theme can compare to it.

I have seen some fairly decent implementations of a Pro photo site, but it's become quite clear from both of your comments and websites, that we just have very different standards and ideas when it comes to what a good website looks like.

Not sure if standards is the right word to use Ben. Your view of a good site is obviously very different to many people's, but that's not a bad thing Ben - we are all individuals with different ideas and styles and likes.

You say it as though your site is so much better?! It's just different. Certainly no better than most we see.

 

[theurbanclown]

Sorry I missed that you'd admitted it couldn't be done.

So to sum up - you can spend a lot of money on premium themes, then some more money paying someone to change them, then some more money on a different theme when you've given up. Or you can buy Pro Photo. Isn't that where we started? And where you told me I was wrong?

Wow, you really don't have a clue Phil, but keep plugging on with your website. It looks great.

What are all of those options for? Surely you only need one as you don't want to spend precious chargeable time changing a website, then to decide that's not a good theme and spend $100 on one that also needs heavy customisation outside of the inbuilt options.

This is a free theme for Pro photo http://www.prophotoblogs.com/included-design/maxwell/ to suggest it doesn't need major, major customisation outside of the in-built options is nothing short of mental.

 

[EOS_JD]

Why? What customisation do you think it needs?

 

[Phil V]

Wow, you really don't have a clue Phil, but keep plugging on with your website. It looks great.

What are all of those options for? Surely you only need one as you don't want to spend precious chargeable time changing a website, then to decide that's not a good theme and spend $100 on one that also needs heavy customisation outside of the inbuilt options.

This is a free theme for Pro photo http://www.prophotoblogs.com/included-design/maxwell/ to suggest it doesn't need major, major customisation outside of the in-built options is nothing short of mental.

I'm giving up - You are prepared to twist any phrase to mean something completely different. Where does a website that's clearly had tons of customisation prove that heavy customisation is necessary, given the thousands of happy pro photo customers who don't use that theme? It's like showing a great shot from a 1d and 500mm lens then using it to prove that you need a 500mm lens to shoot anything worthwhile with the 1d.

You have entered a thread headed 'Photocrati or Pro Photo', suggested there may be alternatives (thanks but we knew) and now won't give up until we all tell you that we were wrong to choose Pro Photo. that is an amazing ego you have there.

 

[EOS_JD]

THe thing about it Phil is that the customisation is actually very simple! It would only take a few clicks to make it look very different. He just doesn't want to give in - Yet he's never used ProPhoto!! that's the crazy bit lol

 

[theurbanclown]

Why? What customisation do you think it needs?

• Make it full width.
• Remove dotted line between titles and content.
• Remove black and white background
• Change all fonts to something nicer.
• Make search bar look more attractive. It just looks like it's had no styling done to it at all.
• Make "Share on Facebook•Tweet this Post•Pin Images to Pinterest•Back to Top" span to the same width as "No comments" and " Add a comment"
• Make it responsive - looks horrible on iPhone and seeing as mobile first design is a big thing for 2013, it's quite important.
• Change the icons and the placeholders that hold the icons at the top.
• Change the look of the lightbox.
• Change submit button on contact form. Again, looks like it's had no styling done to it.
• Make contact form have it's own page, rather than dropdown.
• Change the styling of the gallery
• Change the look of category and archives drop down as again, no styling done to it.
• Move tagline underneath heading and change the font size, then move navigation bar to where the header currently is.
• Remove gap between different gallery images on home page.
• Make e-mail icon at top link to the contact page, rather than opening users e-mail client.
  

That's it for now, as I've just rushed through it.

 

[EOS_JD]

So you're in the process of changing your whole site too?! Your website has almost none of that!

You seem to be making it up just for the sake of doing so. Personally I quite like the theme as it is. Like I say everyone sees things differently.

Actually most of the things you mention are not difficult at all to change and just a selection in the ProPhoto back office.

 

[EOS_JD]

And just to be clear..... I like your images

 

[Phil V]

Ooh look, Pro photographer so impressed with his Themeforest theme.
http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=5395648#post5395648

 

[theurbanclown]

So you're in the process of changing your whole site too?! Your website has almost none of that!


You seem to be making it up just for the sake of doing so. Personally I quite like the theme as it is. Like I say everyone sees things differently.

Indeed.

Those are the things I'd change for that site, yes. I wasn't making anything up, those are things I think would genuinely improve it.

Even though Pro photo can do a fair few of those things with in-built options, it can't do them all and so you are left with something that needs major customisation - do it yourself, or pay to get them done which if you've only spent £25 on a site rather than £130 you are in a much better position to do so.

To be clear once again, I'm not trying to suggest Pro photo is rubbish, because it isn't, but for people who are genuinely looking for a website solution, I'm giving them things to consider before they part with a lot of money for something they might end up not being completely happy with. If people already use Pro photo, like yourself, and are happy, that's great.