Robin on a superzoom

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Gez Ogion

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Gerry
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Put the 2x teleconverter onto my Sony 200-600mm lens today for some photo work and put the a7Rii to the test to see what this old 2014 full framer could do maxed out!
I did like this photo but i am not sure on how to get around the softness... is it the camera's age and limited focusing ability at distance.. or is it the teleconverter throwing focus out?

f13, ISO-6400, 1/800s, +0.3 step, 1200mm and approx 60ft distance away taken in shutter priority in shaded woodland

[media]
https://flic.kr/p/2pv4VsF
]View: https://www.flickr.com/photos/199748624@N08/53493841767/in/dateposted-public/[/media]
 
You're right, it's not critically sharp but it's not horrendous by any means. It's probably a mix of things, the light, the shutter speed still a little slow, highish ISO, which will affect detail and it looks quite a shallow DOF. It strikes me as being handheld? You may also be pushing the lens' sharpest point at f13, I think f8 or f9 would be better but I understand you won't get that with the TC.

Where was the focus point? I'm guessing around the primary wing feathers, top of the leg area as that seems to be the sharpest part of the image.

The TC in itself won't help, they do affect image quality, to varying extents, although I'm not up to speed on how good or bad Sony converters might be.
 
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Dale. said:
You're right, it's not critically sharp but it's not horrendous by any means. It's probably a mix of things, the light, the shutter speed still a little slow, highish ISO, which will affect detail and it looks quite a shallow DOF. It strikes me as being handheld? You may also be pushing the lens' sharpest point at f13, I think f8 or f9 would be better but I understand you won't get that with the TC.

Where was the focus point? I'm guessing around the primary wing feathers, top of the leg area as that seems to be the sharpest part of the image.

The TC in itself won't help, they do affect image quality, to varying extents, although I'm not up to speed on how good or bad Sony converters might be.
Click to expand...
Ironically... the green square was directly on the eye... I was shooting expanding flexible spot.
The 200-600mm lens is a 5.6-6.3 on its own.. so with the tele on ... I was stuck at f13 as a result.
As it was woodland area I left iso to auto.
The shutter speed I had to lower to let in more light also... along with the ev increase.
Yes I was handheld with oss on and set to position 1 which is the general setting (2 is panning)
the old a7rii only has measly contrast points (25... yes just 25 is all it has)
 
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"Image quality" is in the eye of the beholder and I've always put interesting the viewer first.

It works as a picture, so far as I'm concerned, so well done you,
 
I'd say you are expecting quite a lot of the camera to focus accurately in f13 with the subject in shade. I would try manual focussing next time to see if that improves things.
I would also say don't be afraid of higher ISOs. I would rather have noise than camera shake. Stuff like lightroom AI denoise is a bit of a game changer here. I can get (post processing of a raw) acceptable images at iso6400 out of my M1mkII (micro 4/3 sensor) so I would be very surprised if your A7 cannot do much, much better than that.
eg, this is a tight crop, maybe 60% of 1:1, at iso4000. Processed in lightroom then sharpened in photoshop. Not perfect but good enough for me, especially considering it is a £350 lens at 600mm equivalent.
Goldcrest cropped by Toby, on Flickr
 
There's no way you're going to resolve anywhere close to the A7II's sensor resolution with a zoom lens +2x TC at f/13. The max would be somewhere around 10MP avg with a perfect lens, and a zoom w/ 2x TC isn't near perfect.

I use Nikons new Z180-600 which I would say is comparable... and IDT I would ever put a 2x on it; probably not even a 1.4x. The thing is, the *only thing* a TC can do is reduce the lens' resolution. You do get a possible benefit in increased sampling (pixels on subject), but only if the lens was resolving well beyond the sensor (or your needs) before adding the TC; and that's not likely when hand holding a long lens.
 
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sk66 said:
There's no way you're going to resolve anywhere close to the A7II's sensor resolution with a zoom lens +2x TC at f/13. The max would be somewhere around 10MP with a perfect lens, and a zoom w/ 2x TC isn't near perfect.

I use Nikons new Z180-600 which I would say is comparable... and IDT I would ever put a 2x on it; probably not even a 1.4x. The thing is, the *only thing* a TC can do is reduce the lens' resolution. You do get a possible benefit in increased sampling (pixels on subject), but only if the lens was resolving well beyond the sensor (or your needs) before adding it; and that's not likely when hand holding a long lens.
Click to expand...
thats handy to know for the future. so i wasnt that far off then with my initial thought! Many thanks :)
 
Gez Ogion said:
Put the 2x teleconverter onto my Sony 200-600mm lens today for some photo work and put the a7Rii to the test to see what this old 2014 full framer could do maxed out!
I did like this photo but i am not sure on how to get around the softness... is it the camera's age and limited focusing ability at distance.. or is it the teleconverter throwing focus out?

f13, ISO-6400, 1/800s, +0.3 step, 1200mm and approx 60ft distance away taken in shutter priority in shaded woodland

[media]
https://flic.kr/p/2pv4VsF
]View: https://www.flickr.com/photos/199748624@N08/53493841767/in/dateposted-public/[/media]
Click to expand...

Is this not primarily a distance and light issue, Gez?
 
Songbird Admirer said:
Is this not primarily a distance and light issue, Gez?
Click to expand...
Light... I couldn't do anything about.. I was stuck with that and adjusted as much as I dared with my limited experience. Distance.. I'd usually shoot this no issues at 600mm at f6.3 and it would be spot on sorta lol although not as close obviously
 
Gez Ogion said:
Light... I couldn't do anything about.. I was stuck with that and adjusted as much as I dared with my limited experience. Distance.. I'd usually shoot this no issues at 600mm at f6.3 and it would be spot on sorta lol although not as close obviously
Click to expand...

I reckon distance and light makes a world of difference, and there is a lot of gain to be made in those two areas that in my opinion would be much more difficult to achieve by staying with your woodland conditions and trying to resolve the issue through the camera.

The only bird I try to photograph in woodland is the Pied Flycatcher and that's because there isn't any other option. I personally would be trying to photograph Robins out of woodland.

Just to add, I've taken pictures in woodland areas and other areas when it's a cloudy day and the trees are blocking either side of where the bird is and I've had decent results; but that's because I've been much closer to the bird than you were to the Robin in that picture. Handheld also, at shutter speeds of 1/60 and 1/80. I'm going to go against received wisdom here and say shutter speed isn't that important for perched birds: I don't see much difference between say 1/500 and 1/2000.

I reckon the combination of distance and light doesn't work for what you're trying to achieve there (according to your words in your OP as opposed to any criticism of the picture). I would like to see pictures taken in similar conditions and from a similar distance that are meaningfully better than your Robin. I reckon it's a big ask. I don't doubt that there are people who have been around cameras all of their lives, who have the experience to do better, but I reckon that would account for no more than 5% of people who take photographs of birds.

There's the option to focus on getting closer to birds in situations where there is more light, as opposed to thinking the answer lies with the camera's settings when taking pictures in difficult conditions.
 
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