Critique Toddler lighting - help and advice!

pjm1

pjm1

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Paul
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Ok, I've finally managed to get my youngest to pose in front of the camera (maybe dangerous... I'm not sure I'd want her to make a career out of it!)

The trick was to set up her favourite seat with my lighting setup* around that. Only downside is that the seat in question is a pretty ghastly bright red & orange Ikea spinny chair thing - not exactly classic studio equipment :) So I decided to bin the "studio" idea and just just try to get the lighting on her right. So, I'd be delighted if you could give me some pointers on the lighting setup and try to ignore if you can the background and scene...

* So, the lighting setup was simple: two flashes firing through umbrellas (coz that's pretty much all I have). Both about 45 degrees left & right of cam, so "conventional": the one which was cam left was about 50% higher at c. 5' to try to give a touch of hairlighting, the right one was probably somewhere in the 3-4' range, both pointing down at 45 degrees or so (slightly in front, i.e. camera side of the subject). I had a reflector lying on the floor between the chair and the camera to provide a little soft uplighting. Bias to the flash on camera left in terms of power - I think that was at 1/2 power whereas the other was about 1/8 (but slightly closer).

1.
Izzy shoot 20-Sep-14 1 by pjm1 (Paul), on Flickr

2.
Izzy shoot 20-Sep-14 2 by pjm1 (Paul), on Flickr

and finally, a shot I really like but sadly where the lighting has really (IMO) fallen short because of the shadow from her arm:

3.
Izzy shoot 20-Sep-14 3 by pjm1 (Paul), on Flickr

The three shots are not much different from SOOC (for a change for me!) - I underexposed by half a stop because I'm still a bit paranoid about blowing out so I corrected that and otherwise just knocked down both the shadows and highlights just a touch but that was it.

One question is whether a little pop up camera flash as fill might have helped the third (although not sure how to control that manually)?

Are the first two just a bit flat, lighting-wise? With a fairly fast-moving subject, using any sort of beauty dish (i.e. folded reflective umbrella in my "limited-kit" case) is just not practical because of the concentrated area of lighting. So wide and diffuse it is.

But I'd really appreciate some crit on how to improve the lighting. Please ignore the background - as I mentioned, this is not a studio shoot but an experiment to sort one thing at a time!

Cheers for looking (and hopefully commenting ;))

Edited to add: not sure what can be done about the specular highlight off her nose - obviously we're not putting make-up on a baby!
 
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TBH, with kids that might be moving about I try to get as big a light source as possible on axis up a little. Don't worry about flat lighting with kids as much as exposing well and getting light in the eyes - they are so perfect the light isn't that important. I would, however, avoid the "two umbrellas at 45*" gig like the plague as it creates horrible shadows and should never be seen again, IMO. :)
 
The23rdman said:
TBH, with kids that might be moving about I try to get as big a light source as possible on axis up a little. Don't worry about flat lighting with kids as much as exposing well and getting light in the eyes - they are so perfect the light isn't that important. I would, however, avoid the "two umbrellas at 45*" gig like the plague as it creates horrible shadows and should never be seen again, IMO. :)
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Thanks - that's good to know. Big fat light sources are definitely easier for UFOs (unpredictably frantic objects).

What sort of lighting if not the 2@45 setup? Butterfly I take it?

Thanks for the guidance... will get there eventually!
 
It depends how much control you have of their movement. If they're free to do their own thing just try and get the light as evenly balanced over as large an area as possible. I used to use big background paper rolls so had a big light source pretty close to axis and a fill light bang on axis (ring flash is perfect) to cover all bases. You're not looking for sculpting light as much as usable light to get the shot as there won't be countless opportunities before they do the baby thing and go nuclear.
 
The23rdman said:
TBH, with kids that might be moving about I try to get as big a light source as possible on axis up a little. Don't worry about flat lighting with kids as much as exposing well and getting light in the eyes - they are so perfect the light isn't that important. I would, however, avoid the "two umbrellas at 45*" gig like the plague as it creates horrible shadows and should never be seen again, IMO. :)
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Sorry to hi jack your thread @pjm1 but when are @The23rdman you doing a training session I would quite happily pay. Your advice is so useful and put in a way I just get.

Take my money damn nam it!
 
The23rdman said:
It depends how much control you have of their movement. If they're free to do their own thing just try and get the light as evenly balanced over as large an area as possible. I used to use big background paper rolls so had a big light source pretty close to axis and a fill light bang on axis (ring flash is perfect) to cover all bases. You're not looking for sculpting light as much as usable light to get the shot as there won't be countless opportunities before they do the baby thing and go nuclear.
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Thanks... as Bryn says above, your explanation just makes sense. Thank you!
 
Could the fill light be a simple on camera flash dialled right down? Regarding the key light, I don't have big diffusers so it's basically either a shoot-through or perhaps even fire the flash through translucent bit of the big reflector I have (a 5-in-1) to get a wide area (1x1.5m) of soft light slightly off axis. I'll have a play...

I completely get what you're saying about exposure though: the first 6 months of my "portrait" type shots looked ghastly - in large part because I seemed to underexpose every one by half a stop or so. It just made the subject look ugly.

Re: fill light, I read somewhere else that it should almost always be on-axis. It sounds like you're saying the same thing (extrapolating wildly from your comments on a couple of images!) - but anyway, that's a handy rule-of-thumb to work to (y)
 
If your shooting with flash into ceiling (if it's white of course) it is a massive light source.

Only question here is getting catch lights in the eye or is that achieved by fill light. I would say you could easily use in built flash.

This and @simon ess thread have some real gems.
 
Yeah, I thought about that as well, Bryn... I think I'll have a play with slightly off-axis key light first, see where the shadows are and how much fill I need. Only thing is unless using a ring flash (which I don't have), totally on-axis fill flash will create fairly horrid catchlights in the middle of the pupils.

So I'm thinking butterfly/clamshell just slightly off axis (reflector to provide the uplighting) and then after I've taken a look at the shadows, a touch of on camera flash to fill just a touch - I'd guess less than 25% of the power for the fill but I'll have a play.

Only downside to that setup is I won't have any specific light on the hair...
 
Painted the inside of banana box white and the diffusion is done by a disposable dust sheet folded over 4 times and taped in place with gaffer tape. Hole cut in the back for the head to go through. I find that with it just being a fill light the diffusion is ample.
 
pjm1 said:
Yeah, I thought about that as well, Bryn... I think I'll have a play with slightly off-axis key light first, see where the shadows are and how much fill I need. Only thing is unless using a ring flash (which I don't have), totally on-axis fill flash will create fairly horrid catchlights in the middle of the pupils.

So I'm thinking butterfly/clamshell just slightly off axis (reflector to provide the uplighting) and then after I've taken a look at the shadows, a touch of on camera flash to fill just a touch - I'd guess less than 25% of the power for the fill but I'll have a play.

Only downside to that setup is I won't have any specific light on the hair...
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If you're bothered by the on axis catch light it's the work of moments to remove. Clamshell lighting is great for portraits, but you'll struggle to get kids to stay in one place. Better to fire a couple of flash guns at an adjacent wall and bouncing them over a wider area.

I used to throw a fleece over a sofa and shoot kids that way with a brolly box with the shaft detached. Like I said, lighting kids is easy because they have perfect skin, just concentrate on exposure.
 
The23rdman said:
If you're bothered by the on axis catch light it's the work of moments to remove. Clamshell lighting is great for portraits, but you'll struggle to get kids to stay in one place. Better to fire a couple of flash guns at an adjacent wall and bouncing them over a wider area.

I used to throw a fleece over a sofa and shoot kids that way with a brolly box with the shaft detached. Like I said, lighting kids is easy because they have perfect skin, just concentrate on exposure.
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Yes, good thinking... Duh! It's almost as if you've done this before ;)

Re: bouncing off wall (ceiling as well? - i.e flash pointed towards the coving) - I assume the point regarding lighting from both left & right sides still applies: don't do it? So just bounce off the one wall? The other option for where I set up is to get the camera slightly nearer a corner of a room and fire the flash into that corner, so we have a huge light source of the two walls and ceiling coming over my shoulder.

If lighting kids is easier then that sounds like an excellent starting point for me.

Thanks again Dean (y)
 
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