Working for Agencies - making my first step, advice please

[wookie6262]

A long drive up to Inverness to watch a pretty dull 1-1 v Raith. Never seems right when the invoice for fuel was more than that for my services. One really good cele right at me which was most featured in the papers and only got half the ball in the goal frame as I was a smidge late changing between 400 and 70-200 for a whipped in cross. Changing lenses is still a black art as far as I can tell but I am much better now that when I started

Still it is another game of football where most things went well, another ground I have familiarity with and as football has far more opportunities hopefully my name being noticed for future assignments. Did a bit of Women's Rugby for fun yesterday too and it was nice to be taking photos without any pressure or worries about a client or agency. It was a worry that trying to make money would take the fun out of my Hobby but so far that hasn't been the case at all and I am looking forward to every bit of work I can get. Estate Agency Photography application sent in and also a chat with an Agency for commercial work in the pipeline. Another couple of bookings for Dog Photography so teh waterproofs will be needed as I spend most of those gigs lying down.

 

[Seba]

A few more bookings over the last couple of weeks. Two press Conferences back to back and Rugby game for Agency and a kids party off my own contacts. Very different types of photography but enjoyed them all and sport is not enough to pay the bills for me so diversifying is a must if I want to move into this more and more. Working on my flash skills so I can move into some more fields

Fourth shot there, with the chap sat on the seats. This is a regular one that comes up at press conferences if we get the chance to do a quick portrait before or after. They can be tricky, setting up lights quickly in a stand, with the seats and steps is a pain.

I would avoid shooting on a wide, unless you can find a clean background. 70-200 is always much more preferred for me. Here's a few recent ones. I would also recommend having the subject just swivel on the seat 45 degrees to you

General set up would be one light up front, usually with some kind of softbox, and one in behind to catch the hair and separate them from the background a little if it's dark.

 

[Seba]

Here's a wide angle version too. It does work, just needs to be a clean background.

 

[wookie6262]

Fourth shot there, with the chap sat on the seats. This is a regular one that comes up at press conferences if we get the chance to do a quick portrait before or after. They can be tricky, setting up lights quickly in a stand, with the seats and steps is a pain.

I would avoid shooting on a wide, unless you can find a clean background. 70-200 is always much more preferred for me. Here's a few recent ones. I would also recommend having the subject just swivel on the seat 45 degrees to you

General set up would be one light up front, usually with some kind of softbox, and one in behind to catch the hair and separate them from the background a little if it's dark.

They are great. We have about 5 minutes with the players but I guess I could set lights up and lead them to the make shift studio. The tip about 45 degrees is a very good one though and I really like the lighting in your images. Flash, especially in a mad rush, is still really new to me but your post has inspired me to try and get a bit more time and with some more preparation. I'm usually hanging around anyway so should put that time to good use. There is usually another photographer there too so you have to fit in with them and the time constraints. Saying all that the couple I have done the players have been really great and happy to be directed. I'm still very much a rookie and am very happy to take comments on board to improve my work. Thanks very much for the inspiration and advice.

 

[Seba]

Here, I'm far from a pro at these, but these '60 second portraits' as I call them are great for learning. I still come away from each one I do thinking "what went right/wrong there?"

Another tip, and a very important one, try and shoot a wide and an upright (landscape and portrait) "wide for the websites, portrait for the paper". Newspapers are printed in columns and so portraits work best for them when they are trying to move things around. Websites like wider shots around the header.

Here's a link to a book launch which shows the wide and uprights of each set up - Clare Shine Book Launch

Bit of negative space is nice too, somewhere for a quote to go.

Regarding the other photographer, don't be afraid to ask for help. If they are a decent human, they'll help. Too many moody ones about. I'm good friends with one of the lads from our 'rival' company here, but we are always sitting in for each other to help with set ups, as we know it means that once the subject comes to either of us, we'll be ready to go and it will help the whole process go more smoothly.

 

[Seba]

That 'wide and upright' rule doesn't just apply to portraits, always works for pressers and action. Many times i've sent in the same frame cropped a couple of different ways, makes life easy for the person choosing if there is already a crop that works.

 

[wookie6262]

Here, I'm far from a pro at these, but these '60 second portraits' as I call them are great for learning. I still come away from each one I do thinking "what went right/wrong there?"

Another tip, and a very important one, try and shoot a wide and an upright (landscape and portrait) "wide for the websites, portrait for the paper". Newspapers are printed in columns and so portraits work best for them when they are trying to move things around. Websites like wider shots around the header.

Here's a link to a book launch which shows the wide and uprights of each set up - Clare Shine Book Launch

Bit of negative space is nice too, somewhere for a quote to go.

Regarding the other photographer, don't be afraid to ask for help. If they are a decent human, they'll help. Too many moody ones about. I'm good friends with one of the lads from our 'rival' company here, but we are always sitting in for each other to help with set ups, as we know it means that once the subject comes to either of us, we'll be ready to go and it will help the whole process go more smoothly.

Portraits and Landscapes was the first feedback I got when I did my first presser. I am very self critical so hardly ever like any of my images. It does mean after every job I do the same as you and think what went wrong and what was good. I'm very early in my journey and this is an area I really need to improve. I have practiced quite a bit but doing it for real is always very different particularly when every one I get is months apart and at a different venue. That makes it harder to get all the technical side going like clockwork and using no brain power. leaving the art and composition/background to come through more. The other guys who are our rivals have all been pretty decent. I'm a weekend warrior so that isn't that popular but they are decent enough. I'm so green at this that I am still in the "make sure I don't get in teh way" phase. It is coming though and my confidence is starting to really help with these assignments.

 

[Seba]

Portraits and Landscapes was the first feedback I got when I did my first presser. I am very self critical so hardly ever like any of my images. It does mean after every job I do the same as you and think what went wrong and what was good. I'm very early in my journey and this is an area I really need to improve. I have practiced quite a bit but doing it for real is always very different particularly when every one I get is months apart and at a different venue. That makes it harder to get all the technical side going like clockwork and using no brain power. leaving the art and composition/background to come through more. The other guys who are our rivals have all been pretty decent. I'm a weekend warrior so that isn't that popular but they are decent enough. I'm so green at this that I am still in the "make sure I don't get in teh way" phase. It is coming though and my confidence is starting to really help with these assignments.

I'm pleased to hear that. It's a very simple piece of advice that goes a long way to improving a set of images.

I'm very self critical too. I get myself into big ruts of frustration regarding the work I produce when it doesn't go well for a while.

Wouldn't worry about the weekend warrior tag, in fact, wouldn't even use it. It's a lazy ignorant term. I've known lads that only used to shoot when they could, they were brilliant, great photographers, but their other jobs at the time either paid better so suited their current life situation; families etc. I'm of the opinion that if someone are respectful, outgoing, polite, there is no reason to look down on them in this gig.

It's a good thread this, I'm enjoying seeing the progression and the learning. Reminds me of where I was when I first started. In fact I'd say some on here may remember it. Think Demi Lion taught me about how to do remotes all those years ago!

Keep it up!

 

[Seba]

Another thing just popped into my head - stocks!

Shoot all much as you can during a game; landscape, portrait half length/full length. And get them on the website library within 24 hours.

I recently set-up one of those Google Alerts to track my name on image usage as I was curious as to what gets used in terms on stocks vs action and a fair whack is stock.

 

[wookie6262]

Another thing just popped into my head - stocks!

Shoot all much as you can during a game; landscape, portrait half length/full length. And get them on the website library within 24 hours.

I recently set-up one of those Google Alerts to track my name on image usage as I was curious as to what gets used in terms on stocks vs action and a fair whack is stock.

The Agency I shoot for pays a match fee and travel expenses I shoot stock images and fire them in after the game. I get nothing for any images appearing in papers or being bought but I think Scotland is quite different to other nations. Most of the papers pay a library fee, from what I understand, to the Agency I work for that allows them to use images from our stock. Not a problem for me. I get a fee that I deemed to be fair and for the 6 months or so I have been with them they have been brilliant.

Despite having the Weekend Warrior tag even those that would use it have been friendly and helpful and pretty much all the other photographers have been very welcoming. It is a really tough way to make a full time living and I have great admiration for those that do. I'm 37 years into a Civil Service Career. I've hated every minute but mortgages and kids etc stop me being brave enough to make the jump. I said to a friend at the weekend though that despite a 6 hour round trip and what amounts to an hourly rate of around 1/2 of what I earn through the week, no sick leave pay or pensions etc I was looking forward to my day at work. That is something I have never done in 37 years as a Civil Servant and once I can afford too I will try to make it as a full time pro as soon as I can. That will be unlikely to be in Sport and I need to find a way of earning through teh week on a regular basis.

The members here have been a great help too. Demi Lion and Kipax as well as a few who have helped through PM and have been invaluable in saving me time and stopping me making mistakes or showing me the way I should be doing things.

 

[KIPAX]

Despite having the Weekend Warrior tag

Really? haha I hate that.. Lots of people all over the country have part time jobs to suplement there full time.. and in the current climate its almost a must... I think the WW tag should be for people shooting sports for free and distributing to all and sundry when someone could be making money

 

[wookie6262]

Really? haha I hate that.. Lots of people all over the country have part time jobs to suplement there full time.. and in the current climate its almost a must... I think the WW tag should be for people shooting sports for free and distributing to all and sundry when someone could be making money

I would reiterate that when I have heard that term it has been accompanied by help and support and no animosity. At the moment photography is essentially the same as a bar job for me. It probably pays around the same when you take all the time spent researching and dealing with customers etc into account. I never needed £20K worth of gear to work in a bar when I did that back in the day and the full time members of staff loved us part timers as they got a Friday or Saturday off.

I actually get the reasoning in that I can make my money in a warm office during the week and top my cash up with sports photography which is a difficult game to make money from. I have so much respect for those that use their Art to make a living, particularly if they are Freelance. I'm used to PAYE a pension and good terms and conditions and am simply not brave enough to cut that umbilical. I will in the next few years if I can keep the good start going and progress.

 

[wookie6262]

I really enjoyed my first paid shift shooting Top League Scottish Football. Very little goal mouth action but happy to have caught a good series of the most important event at my end, the first VAR sending off I have seen, with Tony Watt the unlucky Utd player.

 

[wookie6262]

After a quiet wee spell I have been busy for the last week and into next week. Not many shifts from the Agency but covered a schools final event at Murrayfield on spec and sales even early on have made that worthwhile. A dog photography job and a boxing show in the last few days and next week an indoor meet for Glasgow Athletic Association will finish the year for me. I did have a thought in the last week about how my progress has been. I think I have got better at telling the story of events. The action shots that drew me to trying this are still important but I enjoy shooting the story just as much. I've enjoyed working with clients and quite like the gamble of shooting events for free in the hope of sales. Those on spec finals and shows etc have definitely been my most profitable days and I have learned that photos will sell if you can get the participants and parents onto my site. I'm much bolder and pro active linking to galleries on the sites of schools and clubs so I can get some traffic. I have built it but they won't come without the address and knowledge that there will be images there they will be interested in.

 

[wookie6262]

Another potential revenue came through today. I'll be shooting a swimming competition in February. I'll supply a few images for the club socials and then am free to sell from my website for any other images captured. Swimming Comp will be a great event to organise a schedule and try and cover as many competitors as possible. My aim will be a few shots in action of as many swimmers as possible, medal presentations, post swim in the pool picks and any candid shots I can snap as I go along. The kids do different strokes so will set packages up and hope that will boost sales. Hopefully, use at least one remote so I can get some more angles. I've always wanted to shoot swimming so happy with that.

I also got another few sales so the schools Rugby Final target of £400 has been smashed and I would hope we aren't finished yet. Total website sale over a grand for the last 6 months so despite the commission I need to pay on sales and the cost of the site I would say that has been a success. Makes selling so easy as it is all done for you after uploading into a gallery and the money just gets paid direct to my account.

I just need to figure a way of doing the same for football as if I can get into events there is money to be made. So hard in Scotland as one organisation does most of teh youth football. They are a charitable venture and charge for images without payment to snappers. The snappers just get development and some industry contacts. I'm well past that stage now and when I contacted them they didn't seem to have much knowledge of FTP, sending and making media contacts. To be fair they do promote the youth game pretty well but it is frustrating having all that potential work and their presence makes it much harder to break through. I'll be stepping up on that front for both youth football and rugby next year.

 

[KIPAX]

Another potential revenue came through today. I'll be shooting a swimming competition

A BIG money earner in my experience is junior/teen Gymnastics.. Moreso than any other sport

 

[wookie6262]

A BIG money earner in my experience is junior/teen Gymnastics.. Moreso than any other sport

I'm working on that. I suspect teh need for really good kit is one of the reasons as parents can't get decent shots themselves. Must give my mate a shout and see if he has talked to his daughters coach

 

[KIPAX]

I'm working on that. I suspect teh need for really good kit is one of the reasons as parents can't get decent shots themselves. Must give my mate a shout and see if he has talked to his daughters coach

You would also need to look up what is a good pic for gymnastics. What we think looks great they can hate. Got to be perfect pose sort of thing. It's all about visual more than any other sport.

 

[wookie6262]

You would also need to look up what is a good pic for gymnastics. What we think looks great they can hate. Got to be perfect pose sort of thing. It's all about visual more than any other sport.

If I get the nod I'd do the studying. Similar with horse jumping etc. There are peak moments that attract customers. I've asked the question about an event so will see if I get a reply

 

[Seba]

You would also need to look up what is a good pic for gymnastics. What we think looks great they can hate. Got to be perfect pose sort of thing. It's all about visual more than any other sport.

A good point.

After shooting horse racing for 10 years, was only recently someone told me most in the industry aren't overly keen on the 'four hooves of the group shot' but in fact prefer the legs out stretched stance.

 

[DemiLion]

I've heard that occasionally before. A bit annoying as that's one of my favourite stride patterns!

Eventers & Polo players love it though.

 

[Musicman]

After shooting horse racing for 10 years, was only recently someone told me most in the industry aren't overly keen on the 'four hooves of the group shot' but in fact prefer the legs out stretched stance.

plus ça change, etc.

 

[Musicman]

Heck, even George Stubbs was at it

George Stubbs (1724-1806) - A Grey Horse

The Royal Collection holds an important group of paintings by George Stubbs; all of them were acquired by George IV when Prince of Wales and all of them (with the exception of OM 1115, 400512) were sent in 1822 from Carlton House to the King’s Lodge (later Royal Lodge) in Windsor Great Park...

www.rct.uk

 

[wookie6262]

First time shooting indoor Athletics at The Emirates Glasgow. I'd mistakenly thought that such a modern and important venue would be well lit but I was miles off. The 60m races came with added natural backlight and by the time I was shooting the other races the ambient had pretty much gone and I was left with flickering and dim lighting. It was a pretty challenging day all round as I was awoken to a garage swimming pool as the pipes had burst in multiple places. I got the water off and left it to drain. Not great prep. Good spread of events at the athletics but still being very new I was trying different angles and doing my best to document the races and some of teh emotions and prep the athletes do. Athletics is quickly becoming one of my favourite things to photograph and I hope I get a few more hires as I build relationships and get to know the characters and who is likely to win events.

 

[wookie6262]

A nice wee job to finish the year and a great excuse to get out the house on Christmas Day. Photographing the meal for around 300 vulnerable people in the community at Easter Road. It will only take 45 mins or so and a nice chance to wish a couple of players, I usually encourage from my Season Ticket seat, a Merry Christmas and hopefully get a very worthwhile event some press coverage. I usually love any photography Job but this is cherry on the top for my hard work this year.

 

[Seba]

plus ça change, etc.

Christ, what was this shot on? iPhone 3?!?!?

 

[wookie6262]

A good point.

After shooting horse racing for 10 years, was only recently someone told me most in the industry aren't overly keen on the 'four hooves of the group shot' but in fact prefer the legs out stretched stance.

Perhaps sports photographers like that part of teh stride as it is such a memorable part of the Action Photography Story with

Eadweard Muybridge experiment all those years ago​

 

[wookie6262]

I am a very proud Hibernian Supporter and today I am a little prouder and feel very lucky to have had a tiny part in what was a fantastic day. The Hibernian Community Foundation hosted around 300 from the community for Christmas Dinner and also delivered around 200 more. The event was attended by two players, the CEO and the owner's son as well as a host of good Hibs supporters giving up their time. I've had a couple of days where being a photographer has been worth more to me than the money and today really topped off a very good first year trying to monetise my passion. Merry Christmas everyone

 

[wookie6262]

Not a paid job as it was for family but I treated it as if it were. Quite pleased with some of the images and learned a bit more about flash. Also had a good play with long exposures and movement combined with flash. I have a recce for a swimming meet coming up next week and a game for the Agency up in Inverness. Slow start to the year as I have been unwell for a few weeks but starting to recover now and looking forward to the year ahead.

 

[wookie6262]

A quick recce last night for a Swim Meet I am covering. Hopefully the daylight allows for easier shooting as the pool at night was pretty dark but still very much doable. Quite a tricky sport and even my 30 minute practice saw a quick improvement in images and timing. Over a two day event I will hopefully get the the point where lots of my images are of interest to teh parents and I can make a few quid.

 

[wookie6262]

A good few weeks with the cameras. Sales from the Rugby finals are still coming in 3 months after the event. That amazes me and I'm gutted the second set of finals were called off due to teh weather. Should get teh chance to shoot them next month though.

The swimming event I did was brilliant fun and the images have been well received. Unfortunately, Zenfolio has been terrible with a few issues since I put the images on my website and that must have hurt sales. Still a week after the event and I am up to around 400 quid in sales and at least the ones I fulfil manually do not have to lose the extortionate service charges that they charge. I'll be moving sites as soon as this contract ends to a site with zero commission. I got another hire from the Theatrical Society and that is always a challenge with flicking LEDs etc. Definitely the best set I have done for them Lastly I have hooked up with the Hibernian Community Foundation to do some images for them. This will be free of charge and just me putting back something into the club and community I love. A couple of other irons in teh fire with trying to get a start on doing some more commercial work and also some team and player portrait images. It has now gone a year since I started and my initial target was a £100 a week. That was successful so this year I am going for £150 a week. That just won't happen so I need to up my activity and try and find more big events with lots of kids to cover. They are definitely my money makers so I will be reaching out more this year to different sports to try and get a foothold. Agency work has been steady but that will only account for a couple of hundred a month so I will continue to do Marathons and also some school photography.
I also tried a little video recently and that may well be something I look into for the future.

 

[wookie6262]

Approaching the youth football market a bit differently after failing to break into shooting live games. This blog explains.

 

[KTC]

Approaching the youth football market a bit differently after failing to break into shooting live games. This blog explains.

You have some templated text on the blog home page and on that specific blog you ought to change.

 

[wookie6262]

You have some templated text on the blog home page and on that specific blog you ought to change.

You will have to be more specific.

 

[KTC]

I've looked at it again.

Okay, you intended to the blog page title ("Template images of football players") to say what it does. It just look to me like it's a boilerplate template text that you haven't updated.

 

[wookie6262]

I've looked at it again.

Okay, you intended to the blog page title ("Template images of football players") to say what it does. It just look to me like it's a boilerplate template text that you haven't updated.

I'm new to blogs so perhaps not the most inspiring prose. I'll take a look again, cheers

 

[wookie6262]

A busy week upcoming with a game for the Agency and then a school shoot on Monday. I did some more work for the Hibernian Community Foundation last week, always nice to see your images in their final setting. I wrote a blog on this too

 

[wookie6262]

School photo season done and another few quid in the camera bag coffers. I've committed to next year as I have actually started to enjoy doing it and that will increase as the admin tasks become more familiar.
First job for another bulk photo agency away on the Island of Arran next week. Spoke to the owner today and hope to get some more work and really enjoyed learning more about his side of the business.
Sales for Rugby and Swimming keep trickling in on the website and I was at Murrayfield on Saturday for the full day of finals so hope that will also give some solid sales in the next month or two. Over 100 quid in the first few hours of images going live so signs are decent but it is impossible to tell.
Another couple of jobs for the Agency with one almost taking me full circle. I covered an U15 final for the agency with the SRU as client. Not that long ago I would have been looking for a similar match to fill my Sunday and firing 100 or so decent images on Facebook for anyone to download. On this occasion there was no edit and a decent shift for a fairly easy gig. Team shots of the first sun I have shot in this year was the only real challenge but I now always carry a charged up flash for such occasions.
A Theatre job on hold as the Brunton needs roof repairs and a few other bits and pieces this month will keep me busy. Lastly had a chat with a TP member and will try my hand at some equestrian photography next month.
Here are some from the recent Rugby and a few other bits and bobs.

 

[wookie6262]

It has been a while since I checked in with progress. Not a huge amount of change but picking up slightly more jobs so growth continues. I have been most impressed with my spec work doing jobs on my own after asking organisers to allow me to photograph events. Football Festivals, Dog Agility, swimming and Rugby have done well for me and I have just passed £5K in image sales for the last calendar year. Add to that Marathons, Cycling, Charity Walks, schools and the Agency work coupled with hires that I have generated and I am approaching £800 a month income from my "Hobby" Business. I have ploughed everything back into equipment and am pretty much kitted out for all eventualities and am in the process of a new PC build to speed the editing up. All in all I am going to give myself a better than expected marking for the first 18 months.

Once I finish building my kit I am going to try some Google advertising as I have a pal that has picked up quite a few gigs doing this and it is far more profitable than sports. Hopefully, that will start some more through teh week income and I can make the jump to becoming a full time photographer or at least cut more hours at my "real" job while I make photography more of a primary income.

Some positives - Building social media with the help of my voluntary work For Hibernian FC and also that has given me more experience at events and with flash. The most positive part though is I still love doing this so it doesn't feel like work.

Not so positive - Made a mess of a job the other day and I really beat myself up about it. First job as a purely news photography gig. It was photographing a house that couldn't be seen from teh road and I couldn't get an image of the house. It was literally a no notice job and I worked out where I could see the house from when I got home. Too late then but there was no info from the paper to help and the journalist I was paired with didn't have a clue either. Agency were great about it though.