Conspiracy theories

Rob L said:
I blame the Internet, there's a conspiracy theory for everything.


It's the 9/11 one that bakes my noodle. I think if you accept that's a us government conspiracy then there is zero hope for humanity.
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Why so? ... I mean I understand what you mean...but why is the idea that clever people may have manipulated the whole word into being scared of the terrorist shadows so far fetched?

Its really not is it? ...certainly not as far fetched as the bible and many many people have faith right ...Yes we live in smarter times, but for worldly tacticians Id assume fearfulness is still the most powerful population control tool in the box. Id imagine if there where such tacticians your disbelief and horror at the idea would be part of the reason it works so well.
 
I found the documentary shown on C5 the other night

[YOUTUBE]MIy8ZqqK5G8[/YOUTUBE]

It's actually over 10 years old though :cautious:
 
Well seen as I started this thread I will add my 2p

moon Landings
The President of the United States had and affair at the White House (Clinton) and if two people cannot keep that secret when they were the only two involved in a private room how on Earth could they get the Whole of Nasa employees to Lie, and keep up the Lie for all these years
plus all the astronomers who have nothing to do with NASA are all in on this, give me a break

Princess Diana
A tragic accident caused in the main by a driver who was well over the legal drink limit - along with the car was such a mess that it must of been speeding way in excess of the speed limit, cars dont get totally obliterated doing 30mph
add into the equation some Photog's chasing them on motorbikes is not a happy cocktail

9/11
The US government along with our's clearly tell us members of the public some whopping Lie's from time to time and to be honest I dont trust any politician, but as bad a lot as they are I dont see them stooping to Mass murder of there own citizens
I have watched the various programs and have the opinion that a lot of these people who take part in these programs are looking for there 5 minutes of fame
the BBC one that in mentioned in this thread clearly had some 'nut jobs' on board the bus - and it was embarrassing watching the Mother of one on the flight 93 victims who spoke to her on the phone during flight 93
talking about the Love for her child and then the idiot on the bus accused her of being mistaken to her face
another person from the BBC documentary has set up a group called the Love Police and is clamouring another 5 minutes of fame joining every other cause known to man or beast

check this it out just at around 48.50 mins

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVnQPGE36P4&playnext=1&list=PL441S-YkdnEh2LmUQXAkk46MScvZI4wLM&feature=results_video

thats it Folks
looking forward to my next thread
David Ike:D
 
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Not just NASA. NASA didn't make the rockets, the rocket engines, the individual space craft, the space suits, develop the software and on and on and on.....
 
I dont think the Clinton comparison is fair really :LOL:
 
I've watched all the 9/11 docs on YouTube and to be honest they do make very good points in regards to the amount of people who gained from 9/11 including the chap that owned all the world trade complex taking out massive insurance policy just weeks before.

I'm not ready to say I believe or not just that there are some interesting stories behind this.

Conspiracy theory's are just that and it's unlikely that the truth will ever come out.
 
All these people you are listing as needing to be involved in a cover up, did they all have access to every minute of the Apollo flights? Bill Kaysing claims that it is possible that the astronauts remained in Earth's orbit while a pre recorded 'landing' was aired.
 
antihero said:
The other good one that I would like to have seen included would have been JFK...
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JFK? When I was a teenager in the 1970s I became fascinated with the JFK assassination conspiracies. I remember finding out that there had already been 115 books published about that day in Dealey Plaza in those first 10 years since 22nd November 1963. Apart from all else, it was a big industry!

And those 115 books questioned everything that did or didn't happen and every name connected with the murder.

The event and its consequences was simply considered to have been too big and too shocking for it to have been the 'random' action of a lone nut - especially one who'd defected to Russia, returned to the USA, supported Cuba while having all sorts of anti-Cuban associates and who was known to the Security Services on two continents!

And anyway, how did he overcome the entire American Secret Service who were meant to be protecting the President?

The 115 books told of different elements of a conspiracy that was allegedly so huge and so diverse, that it seemed literally hundreds of thousands of people had to be involved in different bits of it, and indeed, in the first three years after the assassination, 73 [IIRC] witnesses to some part of the affair died in suspicious circumstances! The chances of that were millions to one against!

At the time, my wise old father told me about the cock-up theory of world history rather than conspiracy, and now, 40 plus years later, he was, of course, about right!

The greatest dismissal of the JFK conspiracy theories is that 40 years later there have been no Death Bed Confessions - absolutely none!

No ex-spook! No Mafiosa [that is the most significant]! No Cuban!

No one has told the 'true story' when they were off to meet their makers and had nothing to lose by it!

Sir Arthur Conan Doyle had Sherlock Holmes explain that when you've eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth! None of the unlikely events of Lee Harvey Oswald's movements or the ballistics of his dodgy rifle turn out to have been impossible in the light of better, newer scientific investigation! They were unlikely but not impossible!

Equally the dead witnesses were in many cases associated with the “more exciting” side of life around Jack Ruby’s underworld or died in traffic accidents. Although the chances of that combination of events was millions to one, it was only one random combination. Other witnesses survived.

Perhaps the most famous unlikely but not impossible event is the Magic Bullet theory.

If Oswald acted alone, film evidence showed he only had time to fire three shots. One shot demonstrably missed and damaged a curbstone, one blew apart Kennedy’s skull so that means one bullet apparently had to have caused Kennedy’s neck wound and Texas Governor John Connolly’s shoulder wound to which he seemed to react a second after Kennedy.

Or were they two separate bullets which would mean a second shooter?

Said the 1960s conspiracists, if you look at the Zapruder film, that bullet had to have wounded Kennedy, turned sharp left, turned sharp right and then wounded Governor Connolly! Couldn’t be! Had to be two bullets fired almost simultaneously! Had to be a conspiracy of two gunmen!

Until more recent CGI recreation of the 2 dimensional film photographs showed how Kennedy was turned slightly to the left and Connolly was turned slightly to the right and now modern science reveals a straight line between their two wounds.

Unlikely but not impossible!

There are still plenty of anomalies like Jack Ruby's phone records, suddenly talking busily to his Mafia overlords in the two days between Kennedy’s assassination and his own shooting of ‘the patsy’ Oswald but these are all improbabilities, not impossibilities!

Perhaps the most influential thing I’ve seen about JFK’s murder in the past few years was a TV documentary interview with a Dallas policeman who was one of the few to interrogate Lee Harvey Oswald after his arrest. Now, of course the guy could have a specific agenda but I chose to take him at face value and he suggested that Oswald was just a horrid little punk, a self serving, possibly publicity seeking little nobody who acted with no great thought or understanding of the enormity of his actions

Of such is cock up history, not conspiracy!
 
new2me said:
All these people you are listing as needing to be involved in a cover up, did they all have access to every minute of the Apollo flights? Bill Kaysing claims that it is possible that the astronauts remained in Earth's orbit while a pre recorded 'landing' was aired.
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In which case, I'd ask what was tracked to and from the moon? And just who did leave those laser reflectors on the moon surface that are still used today?
 
Yves Geza said:
[snip] Oswald was just a horrid little punk, a self serving, possibly publicity seeking little nobody who acted with no great thought or understanding of the enormity of his actions

Of such is cock up history, not conspiracy!
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What, like we have seen very recently again in America?..... many times in fact, often in schools. Such a lone nut is not unusual in any way ;)
 
And how did the Soviets not see a Command/Service module in Earth orbit? And how would have have made the entire Lunar Excursion Module disappear?
 
Ricardodaforce said:
In which case, I'd ask what was tracked to and from the moon? And just who did leave those laser reflectors on the moon surface that are still used today?
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So, how many people are involved in the tracking? Certainly not the likes of the suit makers ;)
Maybe what was tracked was operated remotely and not manned; the placing of the reflectors could also have been left by these?


Ricardodaforce said:
And how did the Soviets not see a Command/Service module in Earth orbit? And how would have have made the entire Lunar Excursion Module disappear?
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Height of the Cold War, who knows what they were hiding/admitting?
Maybe the LEM didn't actually land?

Thinking about it, that documentary came out when I was at Uni and was the last time I really talked about these conspiracies; back then, I knew nothing about photography but read up on the reasons for the anomalies and accepted them and the landing - before that, I thought it was fun to be skeptical :D
 
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new2me said:
So, how many people are involved in the tracking? Certainly not the likes of the suit makers ;)
Maybe what was tracked was operated remotely and not manned; the placing of the reflectors could also have been left by these?



Height of the Cold War, who knows what they were hiding/admitting?
Maybe the LEM didn't actually land?

Thinking about it, that documentary came out when I was at Uni and was the last time I really talked about these conspiracies; back then, I knew nothing about photography but read up on the reasons for the anomalies and accepted them and the landing - before that, I thought it was fun to be skeptical :D
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"Height of the Cold War". Exactly. Do you honestly believe one of the sides of that Cold War weren't tracking and watching every single thing the other side was sending into space?

You also seem to be suggesting now, that yes we had all the technology to go to the Moon and leave a laser reflector there. But not send men?

When the conspiracy claims are looked at, they quickly fall apart.
 
Moon landings happened, pretty sure of it.

11th September.... this intrigues me because of the insanity of it all. Whether the US government was involved.... well, let's just say that it wouldn't surprise me if it was.

Diana's death.... just a tragic accident involving someone who people felt for and therefore want to find scapegoats for.
 
Ricardodaforce said:
"Height of the Cold War". Exactly. Do you honestly believe one of the sides of that Cold War weren't tracking and watching every single thing the other side was sending into space?

You also seem to be suggesting now, that yes we had all the technology to go to the Moon and leave a laser reflector there. But not send men?

When the conspiracy claims are looked at, they quickly fall apart.
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From what I understand (and it's not much) a large part of the cold war was deception, misinformation, counter intelligence and fear. Did they have the technology to determine exactly what the US sent to the moon?
Some people believe that the 1st landing was faked in order to get one up on the Ruskies, so maybe the reflectors were placed during a later genuine landing. I dont know which mission is credited with that task.

Yes, the claims do fall apart; it's not the only thing I agree with you on (y)
 
new2me said:
From what I understand (and it's not much) a large part of the cold war was deception, misinformation, counter intelligence and fear. Did they have the technology to determine exactly what the US sent to the moon?
Some people believe that the 1st landing was faked in order to get one up on the Ruskies, so maybe the reflectors were placed during a later genuine landing. I dont know which mission is credited with that task.

Yes, the claims do fall apart; it's not the only thing I agree with you on (y)
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The first one was left on the first lunar landing, Apollo 11. This wasn't mankind's first visit to the moon though. Apollo 8 had orbited it, as had Apollo 10.
 
The moon landings happened. Fact.

If anyone doubts that all of the footage is faked, that the landing stages and footprint photos are faked, that every single one of the 12 who walked on the moon and the other 12 who orbited are liars, and ignores the fact that there is not one single shred of hard evidence to the contrary, then they are a fool.

The challenge was a difficult one, but it was an engineering challenge, not a scientific one. Fire a rocket fast enough and it will obey Newton's laws and orbit the earth. Fire another engine and it will go to the moon. Communications? Well radio works perfectly well across immense distances, and the computers of the time were more than adequate for the needs.

Why have we never been back? Cost and lack of scientific value. Also, there's little need to send men into space with the amazing advances in robot technology. The Mars rover is doing everything the astronauts did and more.
 
Can anyone explain this photo from apollo 12? It's Pete Conrad with two, yes, two astronauts in the visor...
 
Besides, everyone knows we went to the moon to check out the Transformers ship that crashed there...
 
Rapscallion said:
But dont you find the people with the most stubborn point of view, are the people who believe in the outlandish conspiracies?
Take the clear evidence provided for evolution in the above mentioned Andrew Maxwell programme 'Conspiracy Road Trip: Creationism' and the quite stretched logic / thought process to counter the evidence. (particularly 45-50 minutes in).
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Well they do seem to be more vocal. Perhaps it's because they are in the minority and feel the need to be heard? Whereas the others already have a voice in the main stream media.
 
A more indepth study of the photography courtesy of David Percy

[YOUTUBE]yo5w0pm24ic[/YOUTUBE]
 
The23rdman said:
Can anyone explain this photo from apollo 12? It's Pete Conrad with two, yes, two astronauts in the visor...
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strangely enough, watching this documentary, when this photo pops up ... the guy on the left isn't there, so obviously photoshopped ;)
 
Ricardodaforce said:
Which questions need answering?
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There are quite a few that intrigue me, but the top 3 have to be
1) the flag that is seen to be flapping in the wind
2) no stars seen from the moon in the images
3) no blast crater, where the module landed
 
Cobra said:
There are quite a few that intrigue me, but the top 3 have to be
1) the flag that is seen to be flapping in the wind
2) no stars seen from the moon in the images
3) no blast crater, where the module landed
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All answered very coherently on Clavius and a wealth of places.

Flag

Stars

Crater
 
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Cobra said:
There are quite a few that intrigue me, but the top 3 have to be
1) the flag that is seen to be flapping in the wind
2) no stars seen from the moon in the images
3) no blast crater, where the module landed
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I'm amazed any photographer has to ask the question about the stars.
 
Cobra said:
There are quite a few that intrigue me, but the top 3 have to be
1) the flag that is seen to be flapping in the wind
2) no stars seen from the moon in the images
3) no blast crater, where the module landed
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And
the scale / positioning of lunar module from different viewpoint/camera (the difference between television footage and hasselblad

the light source/ reflection in visor

the different shadows
the repetition of mountain backdrops

why they were supposed to be landing in the dark on apollo 13

the camera cross behind objects

the fill light in shadow areas

quite a few more too but thats plenty to start
(y)
 
The question I want answered is how did they get all that dof with a large format camera.
 
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