Lightweight Portable Lighting System

Well, with the diffusion sock fitted it really just becomes a softbox. And, as Phil pointed out, beauty dishes need to be used with lights that are barebulb anyway. They work perfectly well with the Atom, the extra power helps but the real difference is that the Atom is barebulb.

Thanks, some ideas for me to play with.

here is the back of my BD where you can insert speedlights, is this a problem for the atoms? and it's not a tight fit around the flash head - I don't suppose that makes a difference?

View attachment 38279
 
Thanks, some ideas for me to play with.

here is the back of my BD where you can insert speedlights, is this a problem for the atoms? and it's not a tight fit around the flash head - I don't suppose that makes a difference?
I wouldn't like to think I was schlepping that around an event.:eek:

Problem is, everyone wants massive octoboxes, so you might struggle to find a small one. But if you get one of my favoured pop up softboxes you could make a circular flag for the front. You'll find the flash bracket much easier to use too. And if you get a proper s fit speedring for the back of your BD, you'll be building a versatile lighting kit. You'll be able to use speedlights, atoms and proper s fit studio heads.
 
I wouldn't like to think I was schlepping that around an event.:eek:

Not my photo, but I only had one speed light in it, and I took it off the monopod - so just the modifier to carry :)

Problem is, everyone wants massive octoboxes, so you might struggle to find a small one. But if you get one of my favoured pop up softboxes you could make a circular flag for the front. You'll find the flash bracket much easier to use too. And if you get a proper s fit speedring for the back of your BD, you'll be building a versatile lighting kit. You'll be able to use speedlights, atoms and proper s fit studio heads.

I could contact Kacey to see what adapters they have for speedring that I can get

This might be it? I Don't know
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/540205595_xndGE-X3.jpg

Alternatively, Mola Setti 28inch BD :D - i could still probably hand carry it..
 
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A beauty dish with a sock is a great choice IMO... something in the 20" area. You can always take the sock off, and you can even use the sock over the grid without too much effect on the "softbox" result... it does require quite a bit more power though.

The Atoms/AD360s work fine with the speedlight dishes... but you will probably want to make a baffle out of foamy board for the opening. Another "issue" with them is that the bulb is not very far in front of the body when in the normal position (vertical and with access to the controls) so it may not project into a modifier as much as desired. One option is to rotate the head 90* and use the FT-1 to control it. Another option is to get one of these "lie down" mounts for it.
 
If you want a photo of the back with it mounted just let me know :)

It couldn't hurt :) thanks, I'm still not familiar with all these different types.

Is there a functional difference between a monobloc light and the AD360?
I'm not sure what properties the term 'monobloc' even encompasses to be fair, I think I need to find a guide on that..
 
It couldn't hurt :) thanks, I'm still not familiar with all these different types.

Is there a functional difference between a monobloc light and the AD360?
I'm not sure what properties the term 'monobloc' even encompasses to be fair, I think I need to find a guide on that..
A 'monobloc' is a flash head with all the other electronic bits built in.
Historically all studio flashes had a huge floor standing power pack (generator) with a high voltage cable to the head which was little more than a lamp holder with a mount for a modifier (rather like the Safari2 and Elinchrom Quadra portable heads of today)
When the electronics got small enough to create a head with everything included, the term 'monobloc' was used to show it was a one piece unit (rather than the generator / head configuration). For confusion, a portable flash head like the Safari would look exactly the same as Mark's 'monobloc' image above (which I suspect is actually a portable unit as it has an LED modelling light)

Functionally, a monobloc head would have a modelling light, though you can get a modelling light attachment for the AD360 now, they're less useful outside the studio where you're competing with the ambient.
 
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What Phil said ^^ :)

thanks, if you have that portable godox light, why do you have the AD360 as well?

I'm going to put a spread sheet together of many different lights to see if I can more clearly see the differences
 
thanks, if you have that portable godox light, why do you have the AD360 as well?

I'm going to put a spread sheet together of many different lights to see if I can more clearly see the differences

Weight.

The battery pack on the godox weighs about 5 kilos, the other one weight about 500g.

If I am shooting on location and can have a fixed light point I'll use the big fella, if I need to be more flexible I'll go with the AD360.
 
thanks, if you have that portable godox light, why do you have the AD360 as well?

I'm going to put a spread sheet together of many different lights to see if I can more clearly see the differences
Power!:D
I'm guessing it's the Godox branded variant of the Safari2, 600Ws is just enough to overpower the Sun at midday.
The AD360 is more powerful than a low end monobloc system or a speedlight. Which is as much as most people need.
My general rule of thumb :
  • Speedlights for ultimate portability - with a wireless controller system that'll allow control from the camera position.
  • ETTL as above for when you just don't know and you might be time limited.
  • AD360/Atom for when you need more power or want to fill a modifier properly
  • Profoto B2 where you want the above and budget isn't an issue
  • Safari2 / Quadra for when you need loads of power on location (they're portable in name but they're a task to use)
  • Profoto B1 where you want the above and budget isn't an issue

I'd like to add an Atom to my kit, but I can't really justify the expense for the little use it'd get.
 
Power!:D
I'm guessing it's the Godox branded variant of the Safari2, 600Ws is just enough to overpower the Sun at midday.
The AD360 is more powerful than a low end monobloc system or a speedlight. Which is as much as most people need.
My general rule of thumb :
  • Speedlights for ultimate portability - with a wireless controller system that'll allow control from the camera position.
  • ETTL as above for when you just don't know and you might be time limited.
  • AD360/Atom for when you need more power or want to fill a modifier properly
  • Profoto B2 where you want the above and budget isn't an issue
  • Safari2 / Quadra for when you need loads of power on location (they're portable in name but they're a task to use)
  • Profoto B1 where you want the above and budget isn't an issue

I'd like to add an Atom to my kit, but I can't really justify the expense for the little use it'd get.

Great summaries :)

Just done my profoto b1 research to find that the battery is in the head and that makes it weight in at 3kg - compared to my 545g Speedlight with batteries

I have already made some progress on comparing Atom 360 to the profoto b1 and b2
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zKgbtjlDkehoQDgXD5AHg0IL5YFBJJcU77UhjfXcS5I/edit?usp=sharing
 
Your spreadsheet is a start but...
The Atom 360 is 353 Ws, not 300
LED modelling lamps have an output efficiency that's about tungsten x10, so a 20W LED is roughly equivalent to 200W halogen, not 70W
 
Great summaries :)

Just done my profoto b1 research to find that the battery is in the head and that makes it weight in at 3kg - compared to my 545g Speedlight with batteries

I have already made some progress on comparing Atom 360 to the profoto b1 and b2
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zKgbtjlDkehoQDgXD5AHg0IL5YFBJJcU77UhjfXcS5I/edit?usp=sharing
That's a start, but it's usefulness depends on what your requirement is (which isn't that clear). Also (not a criticism) you tend to go a bit US centric with choices sometimes, I'd drop the Einsteins and Alien Bee's, there's enough choice without hamstringing yourself with US vendors. There's two versions of the Quadra to consider, and if you're thinking you might need a lot of power there's lot's of choice in the 600Ws arena, look at The Flash Centre and PhotoMart, before searching EBay for alternatives.
IMO you'll end up with speedlights and a portable flash kit and a studio flash kit, you might want to consider that too. Modifiers and triggers which will work across your kit will save space and money in the long run.

I'm trying not to harp on, but the Kacey dish has a lot of fans in the Strobist world but as we've already seen, whilst it's great, it loses it's versatility as soon as you start thinking about other types of lighting. A standard S fit dish would have been cheaper and more adaptable (or EL fit - or Profoto etc).
 
Your spreadsheet is a start but...
The Atom 360 is 353 Ws, not 300
LED modelling lamps have an output efficiency that's about tungsten x10, so a 20W LED is roughly equivalent to 200W halogen, not 70W
I hadn't even examined the figures. :confused:

Plus it was weird when I went back in and you were working on it. :D
 
Your spreadsheet is a start but...
The Atom 360 is 353 Ws, not 300
LED modelling lamps have an output efficiency that's about tungsten x10, so a 20W LED is roughly equivalent to 200W halogen, not 70W

thanks :) it's easy to find misinformation
 
That's a start, but it's usefulness depends on what your requirement is (which isn't that clear). Also (not a criticism) you tend to go a bit US centric with choices sometimes, I'd drop the Einsteins and Alien Bee's, there's enough choice without hamstringing yourself with US vendors. There's two versions of the Quadra to consider, and if you're thinking you might need a lot of power there's lot's of choice in the 600Ws arena, look at The Flash Centre and PhotoMart, before searching EBay for alternatives.
IMO you'll end up with speedlights and a portable flash kit and a studio flash kit, you might want to consider that too. Modifiers and triggers which will work across your kit will save space and money in the long run.

I'm trying not to harp on, but the Kacey dish has a lot of fans in the Strobist world but as we've already seen, whilst it's great, it loses it's versatility as soon as you start thinking about other types of lighting. A standard S fit dish would have been cheaper and more adaptable (or EL fit - or Profoto etc).

Thanks

I am only just discovering now they only appear to be US sourced. I'll be ready to sell on the Kacey dish I think in favour of an S-fit option.
 
Plus it was weird when I went back in and you were working on it. :D
Same here. It took a bit of self control to stop myself correcting the spelling of Elinchrome (sic). :)

I am only just discovering now they only appear to be US sourced.
Yep, they shut down their Euro distribution. Once you add in all the usual stuff (import costs, VAT, support costs etc.) they were no longer the bargain they appear in the US.

Good luck with your ongoing search for lighting nirvana.
 
Same here. It took a bit of self control to stop myself correcting the spelling of Elinchrome (sic). :)

Thanks, should make it a free for all document :D

Yep, they shut down their Euro distribution. Once you add in all the usual stuff (import costs, VAT, support costs etc.) they were no longer the bargain they appear in the US.

Good luck with your ongoing search for lighting nirvana.

:cool:
 
though you can get a modelling light attachment for the AD360 now, they're less useful outside the studio where you're competing with the ambient.
I got a little excited there for a moment....
But at 6w and extra cabling I think the built in "buzz" function is probably just as useful.
 
The AD360 (and clones) is an amazing piece of kit... I wouldn't have a problem with setting up a small studio with them. The tradeoff being ease of finding modifiers, battery maintenance, modeling light vs size, weight, and power cords.
And TBH, I don't find modeling lights to be all that useful... they can get you a little closer than just guestimating, but you (I) still have to refine using test images.

Garry, is the power output you stated from independent testing? My impression was that it is lower (closer to 300ws) and I have seen several reputable references to the same (i.e. flashHavoc).
 
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The AD360 (and clones) is an amazing piece of kit... I wouldn't have a problem with setting up a small studio with them. The tradeoff being ease of finding modifiers, battery maintenance, modeling light vs size, weight, and power cords.
And TBH, I don't find modeling lights to be all that useful... they can get you a little closer than just guestimating, but you (I) still have to refine using test images.

Garry, is the power output you stated from independent testing? My impression was that it is lower (closer to 300ws) and I have seen several reputable references to the same (i.e. flashHavoc).
The modifier solution is to buy the S fit speedlight holder (as in Mark's images) then you can hang them out of the back of any proper modifier you like.

Isn't the Ws figure the actual output from the capacitors therefore not something it'd be easy to measure, rather than a 'light output' figure which is always a little unreliable anyway, dependant as it is on 'similarly modified' sources.
 
The AD360 (and clones) is an amazing piece of kit... I wouldn't have a problem with setting up a small studio with them. The tradeoff being ease of finding modifiers, battery maintenance, modeling light vs size, weight, and power cords.
And TBH, I don't find modeling lights to be all that useful... they can get you a little closer than just guestimating, but you (I) still have to refine using test images.

Garry, is the power output you stated from independent testing? My impression was that it is lower (closer to 300ws) and I have seen several reputable references to the same (i.e. flashHavoc).
The output I quoted is the precise power consumption - Ws is not the same thing at all as flash output, because things like efficiency play their part too. For example, there are makes of studio flash heads rated at 500Ws that produce less real power than other makes rated at just 300Ws.

What really matters is the actual flash energy, and most people don't know how to test it in a meaningful way. If a website has simply tested the product as supplied, they will get true figures (if their test parameters are correct, which is usually a big if) but the real test involves setting up test conditions that equalise different products of the same nominal (Ws) product. For example, stick a Bowens standard reflector on both a Bowens 400 and an Atom 360 and compare the actual guide numbers produced by each. Different modifiers create enormous differences in measured flash energy!

I mention Bowens simply because their standard reflectors are highly polished and maximise guide numbers, but of course it doesn't matter which reflector (or which softbox) you use, as long as you use the same one for all tests.
 
If I wanted to power a Molar Setti outdoors like this,

http://www.emilysotoblog.com/mola-setti/

How much power would be enough? 250W, 500W more?
Well 4pm in the desert is roughly midday light levels in the UK. So 600Ws
She also gives another clue, she was using a Vagabond, so in the US that's mains powered PCB with a portable power pack. Oddly, decent portable power packs are an undersubscribed item in the UK and the Vagabond is one of the more popular ones despite it not having an official import channel.
Where do I pick this s***e up from, and why can't I remember my kids birthdays?
 
Well 4pm in the desert is roughly midday light levels in the UK. So 600Ws
She also gives another clue, she was using a Vagabond, so in the US that's mains powered PCB with a portable power pack. Oddly, decent portable power packs are an undersubscribed item in the UK and the Vagabond is one of the more popular ones despite it not having an official import channel.
Where do I pick this s***e up from, and why can't I remember my kids birthdays?

Thanks, that helps me consider something that will also be versatile to deal with extremes. We are grateful for your dedication to this subject :)

I wonder who I can rope in to my assistant.. I think it would make it easier and remove the weight issue
 
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Actually! I have someone in mind as an assistant, I don't imagine they want to work for free, but I can allow them use of my lighting equipment and assist them in return. It would be a good way to fuel each other's enthusiasm too.
 
600Ws is a decent yardstick, as a minimum for working in daylight with decent sized modifiers at good working distances. But you can never have too much outdoors. It's almost the opposite of studio working.
 
Thanks, that helps me consider something that will also be versatile to deal with extremes. We are grateful for your dedication to this subject :)

I wonder who I can rope in to my assistant.. I think it would make it easier and remove the weight issue
If you are looking for 600Ws, then the Safari2 is decent kit, it's competitors range from overpriced old tech, overpriced new tech, and cheaper alternatives of questionable origin. It's lighter than carting a Vagabond and studio lights The Flash Centre sell a Godox inverter, put it on your options list.
You also might consider the Phottix Indra 500TTL
The iLux Summit 600
Then there are the EBay alternatives to the iLux and the Safari. A search for portable flash 600 will turn them up. But my guess is you're not after saving a few quid for lights with little or no warranty.
 
today on Ebay I have been given a 10% off anything in electronics, up to £100 off. As long as I pay with Paypal.

Anything with buy it now, new or used :) better get searching...
 
... But my guess is you're not after saving a few quid for lights with little or no warranty.

today on Ebay I have been given a 10% off anything in electronics, up to £100 off. As long as I pay with Paypal.

Anything with buy it now, new or used :) better get searching...

I could be wrong ;)

I'd be going for Godox, look to see if you can find one with the new fastening on the battery, there was a recent revision. Definitely avoid the ones with the older heads with halogen modelling lights.
 
Ordered the "Elinchrom Ranger Quadra Pro Lighting Kit with Two A Heads" :D for £809

Thanks Phil!
 
Ordered the "Elinchrom Ranger Quadra Pro Lighting Kit with Two A Heads" :D for £809

Thanks Phil!

Looks good :)

The A-heads are the ones to get (faster flash duration) but they don't put out as much light - about half a stop down on the S-heads so effectively around 300Ws equivalent. Not that there are any standards for Ws, but that's where I'd estimate it. Also the faster flash durations mean it's useless for tail-hypersync, though that's no great loss IMHO :D
 
Looks good :)

The A-heads are the ones to get (faster flash duration) but they don't put out as much light - about half a stop down on the S-heads so effectively around 300Ws equivalent. Not that there are any standards for Ws, but that's where I'd estimate it. Also the faster flash durations mean it's useless for tail-hypersync, though that's no great loss IMHO :D

I think this is one of the best options to replace my current setup, as is. Nice light heads for hand holding.
It'll also be useful for weddings, and get me started on outdoor portraits.

I will adapt it to my Kacey 22inch beauty dish for now, and consider the Mola Setti/Solo a bit later, so I don't take too much of a hit in one month :)


the only concern is I cut my research short to make get what I hope is a good deal :D
 
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