Good strobe advice and what else do I need?

ejm

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I've heard lots of good things about alien bees but before I go out and import one from the US, is there anything over here that's as good/better around the same price?

Also I don't want it for studio work, it's for location stuff, so what else will I need? Power packs etc? A definitive list from someone in the know would be great so I can get my shopping list together :)

Tia!
 
As far as I am aware the European distributor offering support for Alien Bees has stopped supporting the product as of some time ago. So I would recommend you look at brands such as Elinchrom and Bowens. For Elinchrom, which I use myself, the main distributors are The Flash Centre and Wex Photographic, both of which offer excellent service, I'd find it hard to pick between the two. I do like that Wex have a very broad product range so I feel I'm getting impartial advice across a range of brands.

Depending on budget, and if money wasn't an issue, I'd love a pair of the Prophoto B1's which have the battery built into the strobe. The battery is detachable so you can have spares. I believe the price for a pair is around £3500, for which you would also need modifiers such as softboxes and umbrellas.

It would help to know what you plan to shoot.

http://www.wexphotographic.com/
http://www.theflashcentre.com/
 
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I'd noticed that the old links to the European supplier no longer worked but I've been looking at sellers on eBay as there is one with 100% feedback offering worldwide postage.

I've bought some things from wex before and their service does seem to be good, and they do have a huge range of products and spares!!

I'll look into these you mentioned... Oh and I'll be shooting vehicles.
 
I've heard lots of good things about alien bees but before I go out and import one from the US, is there anything over here that's as good/better around the same price?

The only UK sourced part that's comparable is the Lencarta Superfast 300/600:

http://www.lencarta.com/studio-lighting/high-speed-studio-flash/superfast-300

Also I don't want it for studio work, it's for location stuff, so what else will I need? Power packs etc? A definitive list from someone in the know would be great so I can get my shopping list together :)

Tell us what you're going to do and how you intend to do it if you want the most comprehensive answer, at the very least you'll need a battery inverter to power those heads remotely but I'd have first looked at an actual battery powered flash if that was my intention.
 
Thanks Simon...this is why I came on here to ask, everything I know about strobes is what I've managed to find on Google so I'm hoping you guys will point me in the right direction, as I don't know everything that's out there...so tell me about battery powered flash (presuming you don't mean flashguns?)
 
Thanks Simon...this is why I came on here to ask, everything I know about strobes is what I've managed to find on Google so I'm hoping you guys will point me in the right direction, as I don't know everything that's out there...so tell me about battery powered flash (presuming you don't mean flashguns?)
What are you trying to achieve?

There's lots of options, depending on your power requirements and budget.
 
What are you trying to achieve?

There's lots of options, depending on your power requirements and budget.

I'm aiming on a setup to overpower the sun. I currently have three yongnuo 560s and controller but want something more powerful, and ideally as a single unit as three flashes can be fiddly to set up and use, even when all synced.
 
Then, if you want UK support, the Lencarta Safari2 is the start point.

Then there's the ilux summit from Photo Mart

I think there might be dealers for the Godox version of the Safari too.

Then there's the phottix Indra

And the Elinchrom Quadra

Right up to the Profoto B1,

If you're happy to buy without a UK warranty, there'll be alternatives available that'll save you money.

I might have missed a couple.

For not quite the same power though, the Lencarta Atom, Godox AD360 is a good deal too, and again can be had with different badges and without a warranty cheap.
 
Valid point about warranty, hadn't thought about that. My first concern was spare parts and running on UK electrics lol :)

I'll check all them out tomorrow, see where I decide to go then, thanks for the comprehensive reply Phil :)
 
Valid point about warranty, hadn't thought about that. My first concern was spare parts and running on UK electrics lol :)

I'll check all them out tomorrow, see where I decide to go then, thanks for the comprehensive reply Phil :)
If you're not desperate to save money... Buy a Safari2.

Lencarta are a decent company to deal with, great advice and customer care.
 
Thanks Simon...this is why I came on here to ask, everything I know about strobes is what I've managed to find on Google so I'm hoping you guys will point me in the right direction, as I don't know everything that's out there...so tell me about battery powered flash (presuming you don't mean flashguns?)

As others are asking, we need to know which genre of photography you are into before we can offer any advice.
 
Then, if you want UK support, the Lencarta Safari2 is the start point.

Then there's the ilux summit from Photo Mart
I think there might be dealers for the Godox version of the Safari too.
Then there's the phottix Indra
And the Elinchrom Quadra
Right up to the Profoto B1,
If you're happy to buy without a UK warranty, there'll be alternatives available that'll save you money.
I might have missed a couple.
For not quite the same power though, the Lencarta Atom, Godox AD360 is a good deal too, and again can be had with different badges and without a warranty cheap.

Interfit Stellar Xtreme look quite interesting. What surprises me with this unit is that they've used the S fitting instead of the usual EL / Elinchrom fitting I've usually seen on their lights.

http://www.wexphotographic.com/buy-interfit-int474-stellar-xtreme-300w-kit/p1027333

£304 not a bad price for a 300w with battery included.
 
I'm aiming on a setup to overpower the sun. I currently have three yongnuo 560s and controller but want something more powerful, and ideally as a single unit as three flashes can be fiddly to set up and use, even when all synced.


I will repost my calculations

Sunny 16 Rule

If we have an ISO of 100 then on a bright day we have a shutter speed of 1/100 and an aperture of f16, so typically as most sync speeds are 1/200 or 1/250 we could say at maximum sync speed on a very bright day we will have an aperture of f8 (the rule allows this to go up by a stop for snow or sand or harsh shadows)

To get a dramatic sky we really need an exposure of at least 2 stops under or if we want to look at it the other way we need flash at least 2 stops brighter i.e. f22 and expose for the flash.

The AD360 has a GN of 85 so if we do the maths (guide number / f stop = distance) 85/22= approx 4 metres i.e. we can have the flash at about 4 metres and overpower daylight easily if we stick to max sync speed

You lose about 2 stops going to HSS at 1/500 and then for every stop faster you lose a stop of light

You will also lose light using the long tail sync system as it will also use an ever smaller amount of the total light

One advantage that HSS has over long tail sync when using the AD360 is that you can turn the power down to 1/2, 1/4 and 1/8 of course this is more like having 1/4, 1/8, 1/16 and 1/32

Personally I doubt that you do actually need 2 different systems, what you need is real world tests of the above because for fill flash you really need 1 1/2 or 2 stops less than ambient so instead of 4 metres we would have

85/5.6 = 15 metres and with the loss from HSS this means about 7.5 metres

Where people also go wrong is that they change from the standard modifier and forget to factor subsequent losses, you might lose a couple of stops power using anything other than the standard modifier so just remember the inverse square law, i.e. halving the distance of the light will give back 2 stops of power

Mike
 
Interfit Stellar Xtreme look quite interesting. What surprises me with this unit is that they've used the S fitting instead of the usual EL / Elinchrom fitting I've usually seen on their lights.

http://www.wexphotographic.com/buy-interfit-int474-stellar-xtreme-300w-kit/p1027333

£304 not a bad price for a 300w with battery included.
I can't see too much from that shot, but at 300Ws it's not enough for what you want (overpowering the sun at midday means 600Ws), I mentioned the various 360 flashes, because they can have a good go if you're looking to shoot at times the sun won't be turned up to full power.

The reason it's S fit, is because it's simply bought in and badged.

As an aside, I wouldn't buy studio flash from a 'camera shop' the range is pants and they haven't got a clue, you need specialists for decent flash.
 
I can't see too much from that shot, but at 300Ws it's not enough for what you want (overpowering the sun at midday means 600Ws), I mentioned the various 360 flashes, because they can have a good go if you're looking to shoot at times the sun won't be turned up to full power.

The reason it's S fit, is because it's simply bought in and badged.

As an aside, I wouldn't buy studio flash from a 'camera shop' the range is pants and they haven't got a clue, you need specialists for decent flash.

Even though it's bought it, I am surprised they haven't had it designed to work along side their other lights. Nearly all brands are brought in from somewhere, whether that's the USA, India, Switzerland or Shenzen.

If you speak to Paul at Wex he is awesome. A professional photographer and really knows his stuff. On lighting the other guys refer to Paul :)
 
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Awful performance i.e. 100 flashes at full power, possibly the wort performing battery system out there.
Mike

However, it's still an option for the low price point and if you check the reviews on Wex it comes out very well.

Quadra set is about £1300, Profoto B1 £3500. So a starter option at £600 for a pair at least gets people going.
 
I can't see too much from that shot, but at 300Ws it's not enough for what you want (overpowering the sun at midday means 600Ws), I mentioned the various 360 flashes, because they can have a good go if you're looking to shoot at times the sun won't be turned up to full power.

The reason it's S fit, is because it's simply bought in and badged.

As an aside, I wouldn't buy studio flash from a 'camera shop' the range is pants and they haven't got a clue, you need specialists for decent flash.

300w strobes can be used along side ND filters. Subjects can be moved into shade, etc, etc.
 
300w strobes can be used along side ND filters. Subjects can be moved into shade, etc, etc.
If you really want to work round the limitations of lower powered flashes, then get a Godox AD360 or a variant thereof. As Mike says, that Interfit with 100 pops max is a bag of s***e. (Paraphrased)

ETA, Apologies to the OP, I thought that's who I was responding to. The OP specifically asked about enough power to overpower the sun, 300Ws isn't it, there are workarounds, but that's not what the OP has asked for.
 
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Interfit Stellar Xtreme look quite interesting. What surprises me with this unit is that they've used the S fitting instead of the usual EL / Elinchrom fitting I've usually seen on their lights.

Stellar heads (including the old grey units) use s-fit, you're thinking of the EX/EXD range that all use el-fit.

Even though it's bought it, I am surprised they haven't had it designed to work along side their other lights. Nearly all brands are brought in from somewhere, whether that's the USA, India, Switzerland or Shenzen.

They have plenty of s-fit modifiers too but you just see more of the el-fit stuff because the EX range is the one that sells the most, the old Stellar heads are now obsolete and the Stellar extreme stuff is a lot more expensive.
 
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Shooting 'vehicles' and over-powering the sun sounds like big softboxes inevitably used at some distance. To do that well, and reliably, in bright sun requires a huge amount of light. See Mike's post above.

Unless you know for sure how much power you need, hire something from Calumet or The Flash Centre first, or you could end up spending a lot of money and still falling short. Tip: shooting in overcast conditions or waiting until the sun goes down makes life a heck of a lot easier.
 
Oh. Ans as a throwaway comment, the Americans call them 'strobes' we tend to call them studio flash, monoblocs (as appropriate), mains flash, portable studio flash.

But tbf, now I've written it, the American naming is much more straightforward, grouping a lot if different things that do the same job. :thinking:

The only product that doesn't happily fall into a 'strobe' or 'speedlight' categorisation is the Godox AD 360 (or variant). It's built closer to a speedlight, has speedlight characteristics (IGBT) but the power of a strobe and the strobes suitability for modifiers too. :confused:
 
As others are asking, we need to know which genre of photography you are into before we can offer any advice.

Oh and I'll be shooting vehicles.

Thanks for everyones input. I know there are options for shooting vehicles in the day without the need to overpower the sun, but I am a very experimental person, so this is for me less about getting decent photos in those conditions and more about trying a new technique :)

Its good to know about the other good "strobes" out there, when Ive googled it Alien Bees seem to be quite literally the bees knees, but as mentioned above, I only know them as Strobes, so chucking in American wording is probably why im only getting results on American products and not come across some of these others you have mentioned.
(y)
 
Phil - you mentioned a Godox version of the Safari 2 ... there is a local seller to me that sells the Godox RS600P, is that the one you refer to?

Ps also meant to say thanks to the poster who mentioned hire, that never crossed my mind either :)
 
I had the Godox AD360 and it did have plenty of grunt if a little bulky actual flash head
Bought a second hand Elinchrom Quadra on here and so far the quality of light output is far more superior
So at the moment Elinchrom Quadra for me!
 
Phil - you mentioned a Godox version of the Safari 2 ... there is a local seller to me that sells the Godox RS600P, is that the one you refer to?

Ps also meant to say thanks to the poster who mentioned hire, that never crossed my mind either :)
Yes, who's the seller?
 
Interesting, what's the after sales like?
Honestly Im not sure as Ive yet to buy anything from them yet, but things seem extremely positive on their facebook page, and the chap I've spoken to about various items they sell and their rig course seems kind and helpful.
 
Let me try to clarify this.

Shooting anything in bright sunlight leaves us with decisions to make.
We can opt to use no flash at all, we can use low powered flashguns to add a litle light in places, we can add reflectors to direct "spare" light into shadow areas or we can take control of he lighting by using extremely powerful portable lighting - different people have different approaches and although sometimes there is clearly a right or wrong approach, in many cases there isn't, there is just the approach used by that particular photographer in that situation, either because it suited his/rer style or resources.

Nobody can really advise on just how much power is needed. It's possible to work to some kind of a formulae, e.g. the "sunny 16" rule, which says that in direct summer sunlight, at 1/200th second, the correct exposure from the sun will be f/11 @ 100 ISO, so any flash lighti9ng that in any way overpowers the sun must be sufficient to require an aperture smaller than f/11 - but that doesn't help much because it's all down to the inverse square law, i.e. to how far the light from the flash has to travel before reaching the subject.

Here's a tutorial I did, with example shots and also showing the setup.
I took thee shots with the Safari 2 on the 1st July last year, basically to demonstrate that the Safari 2 can be used in the rain. It turned out to be the hottest day of the year and there was no rain :) It didn't matter because the Safari 2 had more than enough power to overcome this problem, and of course we made our own rain. I did this because I could and because I had to, but someone doing it just for fun could have just come back on a dull rainy day. As it happens, I didn't need to use anywhere near the full power of the flash, this is because although it was brilliant sunshine, the flash only had to travel a tiny distance. I think, although I can't be sure after all this time, that the power of the flash was only set to about 1/8th power. But the "rain" (superbly created by Phil V) :) was rimlit (it wouldn't have shown up without the rimlighting) and I'm pretty sure that the Safari 2 that provided that lighting was not only at full power, but also had a high intensity reflector fitted that dramatically enhanced that power.

If you're going to photograph items as big as cars then you need far more power. We have several professional car photographers who use the Safari system, and most of them have several units often totalling between 2,400 and 4,800 Ws - this is because they have to get the work done regardless of the weather but as Richard pointed out earlier, if you have the option of shooting in the dark or on a dull day, it gets a lot easier.

And cars are difficult, not only because they're big, they're also very shiny, they require massive silks or softboxes to create diffused specular highlights. Nearly all modern car photographers get around these problems by shooting just small sections of the car and comping them together later, in fact their work requires very good Photoshop skills and a lot of time spent in front of the computer.
 
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Great response, thank you Garry...

On the plus side in England its nearly always a dull day (except when you are shooting ;) ) so getting more power than my flashguns can provide is already a step in the right direction.

I'll be interested in taking the "section by section" approach with the photos, it will keep everything minimal and as I said above I love to experiment :) It'll help me learn more photoshop too, win win!!
 
I think you mean £100 dearer than those on Ebay or as is the case here these are £220 cheaper than Car Camera Rig http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UK-Godox-...Battery-Kit-/361374872741?hash=item54239ef4a5

That is about 40% of the cost of the Lencarta equivalent, what you lose is the support and warranty. For me that falls in to the bracket of disposable gear at this price.

Mike
If the contents of the case were the same - which they aren't - we would be better off buying from them, because their selling price is lower than the cost price by a considerable margin. We get loads of people who ask us to repair these cheap Godox products, which is always good for a laugh. The way they are selling these cheapies, Godox will soon be in the same position as Yongnuo.
 
If the contents of the case were the same - which they aren't - we would be better off buying from them, because their selling price is lower than the cost price by a considerable margin. We get loads of people who ask us to repair these cheap Godox products, which is always good for a laugh. The way they are selling these cheapies, Godox will soon be in the same position as Yongnuo.

Garry'

I would love to see the proof of the difference, i.e. open up one of each on a bench and then the question would go away. I know a good many that have purchased the Godox and the only issue has been a couple with batteries otherwise they all seem to turn in a performance that matches what Lencarta have published on the site. Always note my caveat of the loss of support and that is a factor that all should consider.

Mike
 
Garry'

I would love to see the proof of the difference, i.e. open up one of each on a bench and then the question would go away. I know a good many that have purchased the Godox and the only issue has been a couple with batteries otherwise they all seem to turn in a performance that matches what Lencarta have published on the site. Always note my caveat of the loss of support and that is a factor that all should consider.

Mike
Mike,

I'm good with that test. Not that doing it will stop the know-it-alls posting their "knowledge" all over the internet.

I do plead guilty to one thing though - here at Lencarta we always understate our performance, perhaps we should be less modest, although still err on the side of caution.

For example, we state the guide number of our SmartFlash as being 32.8, which is absolutely true when tested in a professional studio environment.
Other people are selling the Godox version, with nowhere near the same performance, and quoting the Godox guide number of 49, which is b*****ks. We could make false claims and nobody would ever be able to prove them false, because we could always claim that this is the result in our testing environment..

But we don't, because we have a strong moral compass.
 
Mike,

I'm good with that test. Not that doing it will stop the know-it-alls posting their "knowledge" all over the internet.

I do plead guilty to one thing though - here at Lencarta we always understate our performance, perhaps we should be less modest, although still err on the side of caution.

For example, we state the guide number of our SmartFlash as being 32.8, which is absolutely true when tested in a professional studio environment.
Other people are selling the Godox version, with nowhere near the same performance, and quoting the Godox guide number of 49, which is b*****ks. We could make false claims and nobody would ever be able to prove them false, because we could always claim that this is the result in our testing environment..

But we don't, because we have a strong moral compass.
I think it best to err on the side of caution and be modest with your products and create that customer wow factor, than over sell your product and then customers are disappointed and less likely to purchase from you again. The only problem then is initially missing out on sales, altho disappointed folk will try their luck selling the poorer product and come to you anyway! :D

I'm not one to spend less to save money if the product isn't something I'm going to be satisfied with, so I'm happy to go for the Lencarta, it's just obviously from a newbie point I'd view I needed to know what is out there and what's actually good, if the godox is good it makes sense for me to have that because then I can go get it right away rather than having to wait for postage (I'm very much an "I want this and I want it now" person :-0)

Mike, I meant the eBay ones were cheaper, when I said "they are £100 cheaper than them tho on ebay :-o" them was Car Camera Rig; I probably should have used better English because even when I read it back just now I read it wrong myself first time :-0

Garry, I presume you are a Lencarta sales person / ambassador of some sort?
As an aside, if you are, I work in vehicle benchmarking for my full time work, I'd be surprised if Lencarta don't have an equivalent team, if they do they may well have stripped a godox so might be able to share some info with u on what they found, for your own interest :)
 
Garry, I presume you are a Lencarta sales person / ambassador of some sort?
As an aside, if you are, I work in vehicle benchmarking for my full time work, I'd be surprised if Lencarta don't have an equivalent team, if they do they may well have stripped a godox so might be able to share some info with u on what they found, for your own interest :)

If you look you will see that Garry is the Lencarta sponsor here but do not hold that against him :) he has a wealth of lighting knowledge that he shares with all. Lencarta lights in the main, if not all are made in the Godox factory. Garry has always maintained that there are specification and component differences except in the case of the atoms which are just rebadged. There have been issues with some Godox batteries and there have also been some with the Lencarta badged variants, you can take a battery from one and use on the other, parts fit across the various items.

Should I ever get that far North again I would love to pop in and see the differences because my background is as an electronics engineer and I know that you can have seemingy identical components which under test can be clearly seen as not being the same.

Mike
 
Lol you can't see naff all on the mobile version of this site, I did wonder since he was very pro Lencarta ;)
 
I think it best to err on the side of caution and be modest with your products and create that customer wow factor, than over sell your product and then customers are disappointed and less likely to purchase from you again. The only problem then is initially missing out on sales, altho disappointed folk will try their luck selling the poorer product and come to you anyway! :D

I'm not one to spend less to save money if the product isn't something I'm going to be satisfied with, so I'm happy to go for the Lencarta, it's just obviously from a newbie point I'd view I needed to know what is out there and what's actually good, if the godox is good it makes sense for me to have that because then I can go get it right away rather than having to wait for postage (I'm very much an "I want this and I want it now" person :-0)

Mike, I meant the eBay ones were cheaper, when I said "they are £100 cheaper than them tho on ebay :-o" them was Car Camera Rig; I probably should have used better English because even when I read it back just now I read it wrong myself first time :-0

Garry, I presume you are a Lencarta sales person / ambassador of some sort?
As an aside, if you are, I work in vehicle benchmarking for my full time work, I'd be surprised if Lencarta don't have an equivalent team, if they do they may well have stripped a godox so might be able to share some info with u on what they found, for your own interest :)
Yes, I'm the techie for Lencarta, and am also responsible for customer service. This is made very clear in my forum signature, which is attached to my first post.

AFAIK there are only 2 companies in the UK in this market who actually have repair facilities and have factory trained engineers (The other Company is The Flash Centre) and so we are the only other people who can actually carry out promises to repair, and because of this we share the moral high ground with TFC in that we will continue to service and repair our products long after the warranty has expired. So yes, we have stripped down every one of the Godox products that look similar or the same, and we know exactly what the differences are.
But, it goes much further than this because with every product that's unique to us the starting point is the factory product, so we start there and then specify the changes that we need made.

We're a small Company. One electronics engineer who understands these things down to the last detail, and I'm a very long way from being an engineer but do know a bit about photography, and especially lighting. Between us, we cover the needs of our customers, and other members of staff do all the clever stuff.

There are always pile it high and sell it cheap competitors, and there are always people who think they're saving money by buying complex equipment without an effective warranty, but we don't care, We know how much profit we need on each item because we know how much we are likely to have to spend on customer service, and we also know that our own sales figures are much better than those of the people who are selling without warranty, who are avoiding paying taxes and ignoring their responsibilities to their customers.
 
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Signatures don't show on mobile I'm afraid so hadn't spotted your connection :)

I'm not fussed either way, your comments have been most helpful
 
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