Not sure on this one

Messages
455
Edit My Images
Yes
I came across this photo on my hard drive. I'm not sure if it would work in B&W (seems to lose something of the photo, and the highlight on her forehead draws the eyes away in both). But then I don't know how I would edit the colour one. Maybe just lower the brightness/exposure. How would you edit it?

24895880336_26ccf007b9_c.jpg


My B&W edit
24828837941_b043eec2ac_c.jpg
 

The ever first adjustment to perform, IMO, is the
DRL. After that, other decision are easier made.
 

DRL = Dynamic Range Levels = black and white points setting.

I've asked this before but don't think you answered.

Do you expect to adjust the black and white points of every image? Why? I'm not convinced that advising people to do so is good advice. I can see why you might if the exposure was wrong but not otherwise, and in that case I'd start by tweaking the exposure slider in Lightroom.

Moving the black and white points will alter the contrast and is likely to affect the saturation and colours; those are artistic decisions to be taken on a per image basis rather than something which should be part of a standard workflow. In this case the low contrast is part of the character of the image. It's actually tempting to emphasise it by lifting the black point and adding a little bit of toning to the shadows.
 
Do you expect to adjust the black and white points of every image?
Yes, and I do… even on a 800+ RAWs from a session. In my RAW
converter, this is a batch process and take 2min. One has no excuses!


One pays all that money for gear,
spends the time and efforts to learn what is needed,
meticulously sets up a shoot and
… will not optimize what was recorded by the sensor!!! Nonsense!
First the technique, then the artistic intent!

I'm not convinced that advising people to do so is good advice
I'm convinced that advising people not to do so is very bad advice.
I can see why you might if the exposure was wrong but not otherwise, and in that case I'd start by tweaking the exposure slider in Lightroom.
…not a workflow I would teach or recommend… but, of course,
you can do as you please.
Moving the black and white points will alter the contrast and is likely to affect the saturation and colours;
… you forgot to mention
• the micro contrast,
• the micro saturation,
• debug some sharpness and micro focus issues and
• pull out the correct recorded colours for a proper WB adjustment.

those are artistic decisions to be taken on a per image basis rather than something which should be part of a standard workflow
Proper RAW data interpretation IS part of the workflow…
as artistic intent is not.
 
Last edited:
Yes, and I do… even on a 800+ RAWs from a session. In my RAW
converter, this is a batch process and take 2min. One has no excuses!


One pays all that money for gear,
spends the time and efforts to learn what is needed,
meticulously sets up a shoot and
… will not optimize what was recorded by the sensor!!! Nonsense!
First the technique, then the artistic intent!
I'm convinced that advising people not to do so is very bad advice.
…not a workflow I would teach or recommend… but, of course,

you can do as you please.

… you forgot to mention
• the micro contrast,
• the micro saturation,
• debug some sharpness and micro focus issues and
• pull out the correct recorded colours for a proper WB adjustment.
Proper RAW data interpretation IS part of the workflow…

as artistic intent is not.

I've never seen a tutorial or attended a workshop where someone has suggested that routinely & automatically moving the black and white points - other than to achieve a particular effect - is the normal or correct thing to do. Have you? If so, have you got a link?
 
@juggler

Would you watch TV before optimizing reception?
Would you make a sound matrix without optimizing the studio recording tracks?
Would you drop the spices in a bouillon before the vegetables?
Would you leave on a long trip with family and dog without thoroughly check your car?

I don't mind taking a beginner by the hand for a short while because he/she
has no clue but you, Simon, you know better. OK, this may be a new idea for
you but perhaps trying, approaching and /or exploring a new idea will bring
you more than systematically fighting it.

If one starts with the optimized recorded RAW data, all subsequent decisions
are easier to make even the artistic intend related —whatever they may be.
 
With apologies to @Naka for taking this way off topic.. please don't be out off by this technical stuff which you don't really need to know.

I could be wrong here but I thought demosiacing and white balance are applied to the raw data in a single step to produce what's effectively a 16 bit per channel per pixel image.

I'm willing to accept that some raw developers may apply exposure, tone & DLR adjustments - as you call them - prior to demosaicing but I'm 90% sure most don't. If I get chance then I'll have a dig through the dcraw and RawTherapee source code, but don't hold your breath. If I'm wrong about this then everything that follows will be incorrect too but all the evidence I've seen points my way.

From then on the data is no longer raw. Every manipulation - including applying tone curves, exposure adjustments, or modifying the black and white points are applied after this point and can only degrade the image data. You might be able to stretch the histogram and if you're careful do some interpolation, but you won't be getting more out of the data. The exposure slider is in some sense safer than moving black and white points because it does it's best NOT to stretch the histogram and introduce the familiar 'comb' appearance.

Some raw developers apply gamma curves before the final rounding to 16 bits but most don't, and there is some research that it makes no effective difference - but that only really applies at the final output step anyway and has little bearing on the case where any of the other sliders are being tweaked.

The only way to effectively increase the available information is to expose to the right without clipping and reduce the exposure in post; that can effectively increase the amount of detail in shadow areas. Even then, though, it's reasonably well established that reducing ISO where possible is a better option than ETTR; it's only useful when you're at base ISO.
 
I've never seen a tutorial or attended a workshop where someone has suggested that routinely & automatically moving the black and white points - other than to achieve a particular effect - is the normal or correct thing to do. Have you? If so, have you got a link?
I'm pretty certain Scott Kelby mentioned it in his book that I had ages ago. And I must admit that since then I had a practise and followed that work flow as well.

Regarding the op. I love the facial expressions. But can choose between colour and black and white. Personally I'm too extracted by the partial background of the stroller and the right crop which doesn't lead into the direction the child is viewing. Great expression though.
 
Back
Top