£1,000 per day 1-to-1 tuition

GatoAzul1968

GatoAzul1968

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Graham
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Ever been on any 1-to-1 photography tuition?? I see a certain photographer offer £1,000 plus VAT for a day 1-to-1. If so, is it worth having one2one tuition let alone £1k fee ??!!!!! I personally think it is a daylight robbery, but have no experience having had one2one tuition other than with Jessops (£69 for 3 hours) which I had forgotten some of the lessons.
 
£1k is shocking . Wouldn't even consider it . I plan to do a few this year and anyone I've been interested in doing it with have been under £500 which is still hard to swallow
 
For a beginner I would look in the meeting section, I've learnt a lot from being a novice from other members both pro and amateur. I've also done a couple of paid work shops which were also great but 1k :eek:.
 
Value is very subjective.

As a beginner, meeting other photographers and getting free tips is brilliant and fits your requirement.

As an aspiring pro, suddenly skills have value, so paying for specific learning has a value you're happy to pay even though £400 a day looks like a lot of money.

As a pro for whom 1-1 tuition from the right mentor can transform your business, making the difference between averaging £1500 to averaging £2500 a gig, then that £1000 training is very good value for money.
 
For that sort of rate I'd expect a very well established/high end photographer at the top of his/her genre, giving you advanced level training. Of course the quoted rate doesnt explain what else is included in terms of costs e.g. model hiring, studios or locations etc if applicable.
 
Just to add - I doubt anyone would just be giving advice on how to take a better photo at £1,000 per day; but for someone giving a 'plan' of how to advance ones business in a proven way then that's a bargain rate

The only chap I know of would does that I came across about 7 years ago and he charged £1,500 per day then, and you saw him at least 3x over a 6 month period; he helped a pal of mine make a vast improvement to his portrait business turnover and he was more than happy at the cost of advice

Dave
 
I made a guess who might be pitching at that sort of level..

.. yup, It's Damien Lovegrove. He isn't exactly pitching to the same market as Jessops.
 
Looks bonkers to me. Fair play to the bloke, but I don't see the appeal outside of seriously cashed up hobby photographers. Must be working for him though.

kman said:
Of course the quoted rate doesnt explain what else is included in terms of costs e.g. model hiring, studios or locations etc if applicable.
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You get to use his gear. Model, Make-up-artists, venue costs and Damien’s travel expenses are an additional cost.

DG Phototraining said:
Just to add - I doubt anyone would just be giving advice on how to take a better photo at £1,000 per day; but for someone giving a 'plan' of how to advance ones business in a proven way then that's a bargain rate
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I thought the same. From his site it seems this is just 'how to take a photo like me' training though.

Alastair said:
I made a guess who might be pitching at that sort of level..

.. yup, It's Damien Lovegrove. He isn't exactly pitching to the same market as Jessops.
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I'd have thought it's the same type of people, just with more cash to burn. Similar to any number of ex photographers who became online celebs and now make their money through product sponsorship, and selling access to videos and 'experience' days, to amateurs and new pros / wannabe pros.
 
Jayst84 said:
I'd have thought it's the same type of people, just with more cash to burn.
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Not really. Reading Damien's reports of these sessions on his blog I suspect the profile of his target market is biased towards high net worth individuals accustomed to buying quality and making it last. I've worked for a few that match this profile, everything they purchase is high quality and well designed with the intention of using it for several years with no thought of replacement/upgrading. They'll pay good money for a high quality experience with someone of genuine skill and knowledge.

Pretty much the opposite of the typical Jessop's customer, I suspect..
 
So we're looking at an 'experience' day;

Compared to £600 to do an hour behind the wheel of a rally car, it's not really mountains of dosh for a rich bored bloke (try an evening in a Michelin starred restaurant).

As above, the punter for this will follow up by buying some of Damien's lighting from his site, a signed book and will probably order a couple of new lenses for his Fuji x pro (or if they're a CaNikon shooter - a new full Fuji kit)
 
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If it resulted (or I though it would) in a worthwile return on investment I would
 
Jayst84 said:
Yeah, I was kinda conflating them as the same sort of person. i.e. people who buy crap they don't need. Just the budgets are different.
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I think there's a distinction beyond just "a bigger budget to spend on crap", if you take that to an extreme and consider nothing else then you end up with Trump.

At the risk of sounding elitist.. the target market is high net worth, educated and cultured.
 
Alastair said:
At the risk of sounding elitist.. the target market is high net worth, educated and cultured.
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Fair enough. I'm obviously oversimplifying a fair bit. And I can't say I've spent much time looking at his business. I'd have thought it was more, high net worth and uncultured for this type of thing.

Sorry, I don't get the Trump reference.
 
Jayst84 said:
Sorry, I don't get the Trump reference.
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Have you seen photos of his buildings and apartments? - so much gold bling it's like an explosion in Ratner's.. the ultimate expression of "a bigger budget to spend on crap"

I've just realise a better way to explain the difference between the two markets .. go watch Dirty Rotten Scoundrels and the sequence where Michael Caine explains to Steve Martin how to spend money. ;)
 
I looked in to a workshop from Damien Lovegrove a few years back. He turned me away saying I don't need it. Which was nice of him to say and refreshing when he could of said yeah come along and i'll take your money.

He has built a business around his training and it is well received, I guess the perceived value will depend on the person looking and their circumstances and needs.
 
GatoAzul1968 said:
Yes it was Damien Lovegrove
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And for someone who regularly pays >£300 for a restaurant meal for 2, it's not a lot of money for an 'experience', I'd consider it closer to that than to a 'training course'.

Just like saying a restaurant bill is for 'dinner' or a weekend in Paris is an 'break'.
 
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There's another way of looking at it. He is successful enough that it's only worth him doing a day's training if he charges £1k for it (typically that will mean he has staff to support, premises etc). If he still gets custom at that rate then good for him.

At work £1k is pretty much the minimum day fee for any kind of 'creative' consultant so if he is the best of the best (?) then £1k is pretty cheap. Actually, £1k is more like the rate for a junior doing the grunt work back at the office.
 
Phil V said:
I couldn't do several weeks in Paris for £1k , maybe a long weekend if we ate cheap.
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That's what I was thinking.

I'm taking my wife to Venice for our 10th wedding anniversary and a taster menu at a nice restaurant is €200 a head, plus wine!
 
My first thought was, you would have to be mad! Having read the comments it actually does not seem a lot, particularly if you are a professional. I do find people seem reluctant to pay for really good training/advice.
 
I've had a fair bit of tuition, both group sessions and 1-1. The 1-1 days have been invaluable, stuff it would have taken me ages to have worked out for myself. The group sessions have varied from dreadful to really quite good. I've never paid anything like that much but my day yesterday was well into 3 figures.

£1k is a lot but by the time you've factored in model & location at a minimum of £30/hour each you're already looking at £480 without anything for Mr Lovegrove. But as @Phil V says, if you're getting a top model and great location then you're getting an experience day as much as a tuition day.
 
Jayst84 said:
You get to use his gear. Model, Make-up-artists, venue costs and Damien’s travel expenses are an additional cost.
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Seems everything else is at extra cost.
 
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juggler said:
In which case £1k is properly ambitious.
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I don't think he intends to sell many of these sessions a year. I'd say it's "exclusive" rather than "ambitious".

The write-ups of the 1-2-1 sessions aren't tagged, but I found these blog entries:
 
I forgot to mention in my post that I do really like Damian's work, his style of lighting and mono images are top notch imho, but I notice that most of it is done with continuous lighting which would entail more expense!
 
If I could get people to pay that much I would, that's rather good money... realistically I'd question how many people actually take up the courses, not many, I don't see any of the top landscape pros charging near that amount although I guess if you have captured a niche market you can charge higher prices

Simon
 
I'd rather spend £1000 on training from a world class photographer than the same amount on gear if I felt it would take me to the next level. I've never spent that much in one go on training, but over the years I've spent at leas that if not more on training and education. High quality training and education is more enduring than a shiny new toy.

I've no interest in the training Mr.Lovegrove provides as it's not what I shoot, but if I was making a living from photography and thought that an investment in training would get tangible financial returns then I'd be on the phone to him.
 
One photographer charges £1k a day and another £400 a day, for example, doesn't mean that the premier is the better photographer. It is like charging Boris Becker £1k a day to coach you tennis and Magnus Norman (probably unknown to most of you) only £400 a day. Magnus Norman coached Stan Wawrinka to 3 Grand slam titles and Robin Soderling to 2 French Open finalists. Both of them were 'unknown' before Norman came along.
 
The best photographers are not always the best teachers. I have met Damien Lovegrove a number of times and he is both a good photographer and teacher. Do you need a one 2 one, I'm sure he holds a class for small groups which will be much cheaper. If you are still thinking about ask him if he thinks it right for you.
 
bovey9 said:
The best photographers are not always the best teachers. I have met Damien Lovegrove a number of times and he is both a good photographer and teacher. Do you need a one 2 one, I'm sure he holds a class for small groups which will be much cheaper. If you are still thinking about ask him if he thinks it right for you.
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Actually a days 1-2-1 with Damien is £1200:00, though he does 1-2-2/3/4 from around £350-£600 + VAT
 
Alastair said:
I don't think he intends to sell many of these sessions a year. I'd say it's "exclusive" rather than "ambitious".
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simonkit said:
... realistically I'd question how many people actually take up the courses, not many
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When I saw your comments my immediate thought was about price pointing.

Go to John Lewis and you'll see all the big TV manufacturers - Sony, Samsung, LG, Panasonic - have these monster 78" ultra-everything machines for £4000+. (In some cases, £4000+++!) How many do they sell? Very few. But it makes you feel a lot better about paying, say, £1000+ for a TV....
 
I did a few different workshops last year, they ranged from £375 to £600 from photographers charging 3k per wedding etc. Some were really good (Summit in Liverpool) others were okay but didn't open my eyes to anything life changing. I think I'll be looking at more networking days this year rather than workshops as I found / find chatting to other togs as helpful as some of the workshops as we can bounce and share ideas for free... well... for the price of a few pints and food!
 
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