Contactless card fraud

the black fox said:
Personally I think contactless payments or pay via mobile are the stupidest idea ever ,all it does is give the wide boys more opportunities to steal from you ,another one is the new phone cases that you can also store your cards in ,lots of people have there PIN numbers stored on there phone ,Ali babas paradise springs to mind
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Apple Pay doesn’t use your payment card details.
 
Whilst I can see how someone with the right type scanner might be able to get your "contactless" details, I don't see how they could get them if you have more than one card in your wallet/purse?

Recently got a new credit card and it said once activated it had to be used at least once with "chip and pin" before it could be used contactless.
 
Keith W said:
Apparently you can ask your bank to supply you with a card that does not have that feature
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Yep. You can with Lloyds, anyway.
 
Ricardodaforce said:
Apple Pay doesn’t use your payment card details.
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Yup - Apple pay effectively generates a unique 'card' every time you use it, and it's locked behind your fingerprint / PIN, so pretty secure to my mind.

I personally love the whole on-line banking / contactless, although I do prefer to pay with the phone or watch rather than cards, and with more places removing the £30 limit, I find I rely on apple pay more and more for my weekly use.
 
Nod said:
I don't do internet banking - much better IMO to deal with humans in branch. Luckily, my bank has real people to talk to, despite them having to try to sell customers internet banking and talk themselves out of jobs.
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Depends I guess. One bank I had a minor account with went to 3 times as they cocked up change of address. Ended up registering the Internet banking and did it online.

Unfortunately more and more bricks and mortar banks are being closed, you may not have much choice soon.
 
Furtim said:
Yup - Apple pay effectively generates a unique 'card' every time you use it, and it's locked behind your fingerprint / PIN, so pretty secure to my mind.

I personally love the whole on-line banking / contactless, although I do prefer to pay with the phone or watch rather than cards, and with more places removing the £30 limit, I find I rely on apple pay more and more for my weekly use.
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Exactly the same with me. It’s the future today.
 
MartynK said:
I don't have a UK bank card. Can you disable the contactless feature, or ask the bank to do this?
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After having my card cloned a couple of years ago I asked the bank if it was possible to have a new non contactless card. They said that they could not do that, they only issue contactless cards.
 
As been said, nothing is 100% secure.
I have a business credit card that’s only used to buy fuel for my lorry and I only ever use it in Tesco “pay at pump” machines.

That card still got cloned somehow, presumably through a skimmer device and had a load of money taken from it. Thankfully the card has a £250 transaction limit, so they couldn’t do too much damage.
The giveaway was the transactions came from Sri Lanka, somewhere I’ve obviously never bought fuel.
 
i love contactless best thing since sliced bread at the pub
 
neil_g said:
there were some vulnerabilities through it's history. including use pay via the watch.

honestly I couldn't tell you how widespread it was. the point is, no method is going to be 100% secure.
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I have never heard of a user being defrauded. Happy to be proved wrong though.
 
MartynK said:
I don't have a UK bank card. Can you disable the contactless feature, or ask the bank to do this?
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You certainly can with HSBC. My cards were requested to have no chip. They obliged no questions asked.
 
Mr Bump said:
So whats the problem here?

The bank gives you a card that enables you to pay for things without cash.
The card it gives you is free, no charge, gratis.
If it gets stolen, you report it and the bank doesn't charge you for the hooky charges.

There is no charge for all these things?
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If you think its ok for people to spend your money using a card that you thought was cancelled thats fine, but i can't afford to have it happen to me. The post was just to make people aware should they ever be in the same situation, that this can happen after you cancel your card.
 
Nod said:
I don't do internet banking - much better IMO to deal with humans in branch. Luckily, my bank has real people to talk to, despite them having to try to sell customers internet banking and talk themselves out of jobs.
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For making payments by bank transfer, internet banking wins every time over going to a branch. I can do it in a few seconds at my desk. whereas if I go to the branch, it takes considerably longer. It's only five minutes walk from my office, but generally the customer service desk has something of a queue at lunchtimes. Why would I do that and wwaste my lunchbreak, just to tell a person some numbers that they will type into their interface to the same online banking that I have, for me?
 
Paul-H said:
Thanks for the heads up

Apparently its also possible to use a hand held device to scan your card whilst its still on your wallet or bag.

Technically I suppose its possible, but not heard of it being done though
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fabs said:
So are people saying the US a device that can scan your card for payment when it's in your wallet in your pocket? Wouldn't they have to be extremely close to do that? I have to almost touch the card to the machine for it to work!
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This apparently happened on the tube in london, some guy used the close proximity in the stations and trains to scan over £20k from peoples cards but was caught because he used his own contactless card at the beginning and end of his route.
 
@srichards , I've just finished the experiment with my old card; after making sure I could detect it, I punched a hole in the contactless bit...
TP_IMG_2505.jpg
No detection.
If your bank won't give you a non-contactless card, WHSmith will. :p
 
Thanks Tory_T. Will be punching the hole soon :D on Halifax. On Santander, it's on top right and will damage magnetic strip.
 
bbk said:
On Santander, it's on top right and will damage magnetic strip.
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I think the printed symbol is just a "Tap this end" indicator. Cards are a standard design; regardless of the printing, the chip, strip, and (I suspect) contactless coil will all be in the same place.
If you punch your card where I punched mine, it should die.
 
Michael Little said:
If you think its ok for people to spend your money using a card that you thought was cancelled thats fine, but i can't afford to have it happen to me. The post was just to make people aware should they ever be in the same situation, that this can happen after you cancel your card.
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Except they didn't 'spend your money' the bank carries the risk, not the customer.

And let's be realistic here, given the bank is holding the risk, do we assume they've assessed that risk? I'd suggest the risk is tiny or the banks wouldn't be promoting the technology.

I've had fraud committed on my debit card, credit card and PayPal acct. it didn't cost me a penny, I have contactless on my debit card, and on my phone for credit card, neither of which have so far been compromised, but should they be, there'll be no cost to me, and I won't trust them less. The banks aren't in business to take big risks, I distrust them in many ways, but when it comes to security of their funds, I think they're the best judge of that.
 
The punch I used was a nice sharp one; the hole was clean, without tagging, and there was no card distortion.
While I didn't try it, I'd expect it to be okay.
 
Tori_T said:
@srichards , I've just finished the experiment with my old card; after making sure I could detect it, I punched a hole in the contactless bit...
View attachment 112228
No detection.
If your bank won't give you a non-contactless card, WHSmith will. :p
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That could land you in hot water

That is an altered card which I believe is a no no as far as the banks etc. are concerned
 
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Keith W said:
That could land you in hot water
That is an altered card which I believe is a no no as far as the banks etc. are concerned
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Well, not personally; it was an expired card I was working on, which went in the shredder after that photo was taken.
@srichards , a point to consider if you're doing this to a live card?
 
I just don't see the point of a non contactless card, its just taking away technology which makes life much easier.
Also I imagine down the line some retailers will not have chip and pin, just contactless.

For me also there is valid point being overlooked with contactless and that is YOU ARE NOT EXPOSING YOUR PIN TO FRAUD.
 
Ricardodaforce said:
I have never heard of a user being defrauded. Happy to be proved wrong though.
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When they bought it thinking they were getting new technology but Apple actually gave them 5 year old+ tech? ;)
 
I love contactless, the benefit far outweighs the risk IMO. Especially as the banks take the risk anyway
 
Lad at work had his wallet emptied coming through the security scanner at Alicante airport.
Discovered it when he went to buy food in the departure lounge.
Got bank number off internet and phoned to cancel cards (contactless) and thieves had already been using the cards.
He was told it was happening a lot and there had been cases of expensive cars being hired on stolen cards and not recovered.
 
You go over to China and contactless is ingrained into society now. They use WeChat on their phones to pay for it all. Just scan a qr code. Absolutely everything uses it. It helps that you get discounts and cash back from it but if you tried that model here people would have a fit.
 
Watch the London Tube, there are definitely people with scanners in bags, I saw the plains clothed transport police arrest someone. Scanner in bag he was rubbing the bag close to people in the tube rushhour, trying to read their cards.

I have a number of contactless cards for access to various properties for work, that all live in my wallet next to my bank card. I can't simply swipe my wallet, it gets very confused with which card to use.

And coming soon - keyless locks for your home.
https://www.yale.co.uk/en/yale/couk/products/smart-living/smart-door-locks/keyless-smart-door-lock/
 
London yeah, they deserve to have their cards robbed.
I was watching location, location, location last night with the missus and some posh young couple were looking for a flat in some close London suberb.

They had 750k to spend and ended up delighted with a two bedroom ground floor s***hole with a back garden about the size of my Yorkshire bathroom.

rob em all I say.
 
Mr Bump said:
London yeah, they deserve to have their cards robbed.
I was watching location, location, location last night with the missus and some posh young couple were looking for a flat in some close London suberb.

They had 750k to spend and ended up delighted with a two bedroom ground floor s***hole with a back garden about the size of my Yorkshire bathroom.

rob em all I say.
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Yeah, because everyone on the tube in London lives in London and pays out loads of money for property. :rolleyes:
 
Mr Bump said:
London yeah, they deserve to have their cards robbed.
I was watching location, location, location last night with the missus and some posh young couple were looking for a flat in some close London suberb.

They had 750k to spend and ended up delighted with a two bedroom ground floor s***hole with a back garden about the size of my Yorkshire bathroom.

rob em all I say.
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You're really an odd chap.
I watched the same programme.
The flat they bought was far from being a s***hole.
Was it small? Undoubtedly.
Was it expensive? To me, yes. To London buyers, not so much.
What business is it of yours to pass judgement on what people purchase, where they purchase it, and how much they pay?

Did you watch the programme that followed it?
A retiring (close to) couple, building a rather bizarre home based on a Fibonacci inspired shaped home in the country.
Spent close to a million quid building what some would class as a bizarre construction, and yet they wound up with a thing of beauty.

It's called personal choice.
 
viv1969 said:
You're really an odd chap.
I watched the same programme.
The flat they bought was far from being a s***hole.
Was it small? Undoubtedly.
Was it expensive? To me, yes. To London buyers, not so much.
What business is it of yours to pass judgement on what people purchase, where they purchase it, and how much they pay?

Did you watch the programme that followed it?
A retiring (close to) couple, building a rather bizarre home based on a Fibonacci inspired shaped home in the country.
Spent close to a million quid building what some would class as a bizarre construction, and yet they wound up with a thing of beauty.

It's called personal choice.
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It was supposed to humour old girl keep your tena lady on [emoji3]
 
Mr Bump said:
It was supposed to humour old girl keep your tena lady on [emoji3]
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Well I lolled......Bump...:ROFLMAO:

many a true word said in jest though, it is an absolute pile of crap the housing situation down there but it is a choice, can't see the attraction personally but there ya go.
 
Ricardodaforce said:
Apple Pay doesn’t use your payment card details.
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Same with Android Pay. It can't be scanned in a brush-by because it's not active unless the screen is on and the virtual credit card number cannot be used outside the app that it's installed into.
 
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