Large Format photography group - From "zero to hero!"

Woodsy said:
What focal length do you use the most on your most used camera, @ChrisR? And also, if you did invest in LF, what would you aim to shoot with it subject wise?
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Always used to be 50mm, but now if I put one on I can walk around all day and not take anything. I'd guess 35mm is the favourite focal length. I've been enjoying the 35-70 zooms, despite dropping the Pentax-M one (I now have a Vivitar replacement which is not quite as nice). Oddly, the short version of both of these is 70mm, which I use far more than the 35mm end. Scratches head.

I'm thinking 120-150mm if I do take the plunge.

Stuff to shoot... well, landscapes I suppose though perhaps more intimate than grand scale. Local stuff, And I do enjoy still life, making up the whole thing from scratch.
 
I tend to agree, personally. 50mm on 135 does nothing for me, whereas 35mm somehow just works. As such, yes, a 120mm ish lens might suit you well. If I hadn't the money at the time, I'd not have bought my schneider 120mm and instead gone for the Fujinon 125mm CM-W. This is a tiny lens, so nice and light (265g), but also f/5.6 and 204mm of coverage (image circle, at f/22 I believe), so it has room for more than enough movements for landscapes. Kerry Thalmann rates it as well, which is very much a good sign.
 
Filter sizes are presumably another thing... apparently that Fujinon lens is 67mm (I guess that could be useful if you have digital autofocus lenses). Having older Pentax lenses it would be really nice to have 49mm or 52mm filter threads, which would let me use existing filters and the Cokin system I've got... That Thalmann article suggested there were lenses with those filter sizes, just followed a clue to a Rodenstock one and it was £1500! Is there a way to check filter sizes easily? Ffordes don't tell you anything about their lenses (except that a few are fitted to weird lens boards).
 
A question thrown in.

I have seen an Ebony 45W camera for sale in a shop on this new fangled interwibble :) which looks really nice (pictures show camera and lens but no other accessories and there appear to be none listed else where on the site). However the trouble is can't seem to find out what backs can be mounted on to it.

Does any one know if you could mount one of those Shen Hao 6x17 or indeed any other make of 6x17 roll film back on this machine?

Cheers
 
ChrisR said:
Filter sizes are presumably another thing... apparently that Fujinon lens is 67mm (I guess that could be useful if you have digital autofocus lenses). Having older Pentax lenses it would be really nice to have 49mm or 52mm filter threads, which would let me use existing filters and the Cokin system I've got... That Thalmann article suggested there were lenses with those filter sizes, just followed a clue to a Rodenstock one and it was £1500! Is there a way to check filter sizes easily? Ffordes don't tell you anything about their lenses (except that a few are fitted to weird lens boards).
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So far as I can tell, filter sizes are chosen to suit the lens - once the optical design is done, they decide on a standard filter size that's suitably larger to minimise vignetting, but not so large that the overall bulk of the lens become unacceptable for what it is. There's an argument for buying filters that are reasonably large and using step-up rings for lenses that are smaller. Which is fine until you get a lens that needs a bigger filter size than you invested in.

Ffordes are hopeless for putting info on their web site - something that bugs me about them (and the low-res photos). For most lenses, a bit of searching on the net will usually unearth a pretty comprehensive spec sheet, and you can decide from that.

The ones on weird lens boards are presumably from copy cameras. If you don't see a shutter, it likely doesn't have one. They're cheap, but arguably not worth buying unless you already have a shutter to suit. Don't often see shutters for sale on their own, so buying in the hope of finding a cheap shutter later is probably not worth the hassle. Better, in my view, to buy a lens and shutter combo and then get a lens board for the camera that has the right size hole for the shutter (Copal 0 or whatever).

Something to watch out for with faster lenses is the size of the rear element. In cameras that have a tapered bellows and a small lens board, the big rear element can restrict movements because it hits the inside of the bellows. Some bellows have an odd way of folding at the lens end to accommodate this. The other option is to use a bag bellows instead (basically a floppy bag that allows loads of movement, and has fittings at each end to suit the camera. My Fujinon 90mm f5.6 SWD is bordering on Behemoth class on 5x4 - I can just get the rear part through the opening in the front of the camera and get the lens board on, but very limited movement once it's in. Switch to the bag bellows, however, and it's super-wiggly perspecto-shift-tastic.
 
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Knikki said:
Does any one know if you could mount one of those Shen Hao 6x17 or indeed any other make of 6x17 roll film back on this machine?

Cheers
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17mm is bigger than 5" (about 13mm), so you need a 5x7 camera or larger for 6x17. Sorry.
 
ChrisR said:
So what is this Fuji Quickload film holder @stevelmx5 is taking about?
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Film normally comes in boxes of loose sheets that you load into film holders. Some film comes in paper envelopes (either Fuji Quickload or Kodak Readyload) which is placed in a special holder out in the field, and doesn't need other film holders. You can get 20 sheets of 5x4 film in Quickloads in the space of 2 normal filmholders, so a big saving in space and weight. Plus no reloading - the dark slide is integral with the pack. You pay an arm and a leg for film, and there's limited availabilty. I have a Quickload holder that I'll probably never use again since Fuji discontinued Acros in Quickloads. N.B. In deferrence to the idea of standards being a jolly good thing, and you can't have too much of jolly good things, Quickloads and Readyloads are not interchangeable as far as I know.
 
Filter sizes; as stated, lenses tend to be sui generis. Amazingly, my first ever LF lens was a Schneider Symmar 150mm, and that takes 49mm filters, the same as my OM1 outfit. For most purposes, it seems simpler to use Lee filters (or equivalent).
 
Woodsy said:
I tend to agree, personally. 50mm on 135 does nothing for me, whereas 35mm somehow just works. As such, yes, a 120mm ish lens might suit you well. If I hadn't the money at the time, I'd not have bought my schneider 120mm and instead gone for the Fujinon 125mm CM-W. This is a tiny lens, so nice and light (265g), but also f/5.6 and 204mm of coverage (image circle, at f/22 I believe), so it has room for more than enough movements for landscapes. Kerry Thalmann rates it as well, which is very much a good sign.
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I know this is not LF talk, but I would whole heartily agree with this statement (I enjoyed a 35mm on DX though). 35mm is a great length.
 
So, who knew a lupe (loupe?) could easily cost more than a lens? And I'm not talking about the £1,900 fleabay stakeouts either. Most of the ones I can find are £60 upwards.

What magnification is desirable for focusing? I presume one of those that sits on a flat surface (ie the ground glass) would be better than the kind that folds up into a little case? Any pointers?
 
So it appears there is an AP 8x lupe that you can buy for under a tenner, I guess that would suffice?
 
ChrisR said:
So, who knew a lupe (loupe?) could easily cost more than a lens? And I'm not talking about the £1,900 fleabay stakeouts either. Most of the ones I can find are £60 upwards.

What magnification is desirable for focusing? I presume one of those that sits on a flat surface (ie the ground glass) would be better than the kind that folds up into a little case? Any pointers?
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Try and find a used one, 4x ish is probably ideal. Any more and its difficult to see the image for the grain in the ground glass.
 
steveo_mcg said:
Try and find a used one, 4x ish is probably ideal. Any more and its difficult to see the image for the grain in the ground glass.
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Bummer! Back for another search! (I want to take a camera out into Holyrood Park, but it's whiteout 75% of the time, looks like the best light was this morning :-( )
 
It's usually reckoned that 4x or 6x is best. The greater the magnification, the more the fresnel etc. gets in the way - but this will depend on the screen in your camera. I use a 4x Rodenstock bought years ago - they aren't made now. My theory is that assuming I don't want to go greater than 20x16 from 5x4, then if it's sharp under the loupe it's sharp on the print. Mine has a sliding collar so that you can black out the tube of the lupe for use on a ground glass, or reveal the transparent part to allow light through to view a print by reflected light.

I have in my darkroom drawer a plastic cheapo slide viewing lens from Jessops that should work fine on a ground glass. I imagine that something very similar is still available - if not Jessops own brand then it's the sort of thing Kaiser make/sell.
 
ChrisR said:
Bummer! Back for another search! (I want to take a camera out into Holyrood Park, but it's whiteout 75% of the time, looks like the best light was this morning :-( )
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Yeah its pretty bad. Kids were out in the garden for an hour but no where to hide from the snow it just swirls round the leaward side of the house. We're out of nappies so I'm going to have to brave it sooner or later!
 
steveo_mcg said:
Yeah its pretty bad. Kids were out in the garden for an hour but no where to hide from the snow it just swirls round the leaward side of the house. We're out of nappies so I'm going to have to brave it sooner or later!
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Might as well pick up some more Scotch while you’re out.
 
steveo_mcg said:
Yeah its pretty bad. Kids were out in the garden for an hour but no where to hide from the snow it just swirls round the leaward side of the house. We're out of nappies so I'm going to have to brave it sooner or later!
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You could try crossing your legs?
 
ChrisR said:
So, who knew a lupe (loupe?) could easily cost more than a lens? And I'm not talking about the £1,900 fleabay stakeouts either. Most of the ones I can find are £60 upwards.

What magnification is desirable for focusing? I presume one of those that sits on a flat surface (ie the ground glass) would be better than the kind that folds up into a little case? Any pointers?
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Not as light as a loupe but I've been using an OM Zuiko 50/1.8 lens reversed instead :0) Does the same job and lets me get a good magnified view for focusing.
 
So ffordes have a nice Fuji 4x loupe [sic] for £55 and unspecified Pentax one for £35!

A bunch on fleabay say 4x in the description but appear to read 30x on the actual item! I have found some for £5-ish though, described as "eye loupe", wondering if this is the type you hold right up to the eye?
 
I just found my loup on ebay for $170 which is more than I paid. Kaiser on the other hand are still available, and £30 is more reasonable here.
 
stevelmx5 said:
Not as light as a loupe but I've been using an OM Zuiko 50/1.8 lens reversed instead :0) Does the same job and lets me get a good magnified view for focusing.
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I often use this trick as well and it works surprisingly nicely. I've never used a super fancy loupe, but don't really feel the need to either
 
The converted lens loupe that I mentioned elsewhere...

Guts of an Industar-61 and the remains of a cheap loupe that had a scratched plastic lens...

Loupe 01.jpg

It was good luck that the threaded part that the optical unit screwed into happened to be a snug fit in the plastic body of the old loupe. I think the threaded ring was probably for calibrating the Industar-61 to infinity (set lens barrel, adjust optic, tighten grub screws to lock).

The bits go together like this...

Loupe 02.jpg

It's also luck that the plastic loupe is about the right length to get the I-61 unit focussed on the ground glass. Once it's done, I just wrap a bit of electrical tape around both parts with a bit of stretch in it, and then tie some cord around it in the bit where the diameter is narrower.

Effectively cost next to nothing - the lens was attached to a Zorki body (I wanted the body), and the plastic loupe was a cast-off from work.
 
ChrisR said:
I thought I should noodle about LF lenses and stuff here rather than on Steve's Chroma build thread. I've been trying to read up about LF lenses in case I'm mad enough to back this (which I'd love to, though I have strong doubts I have the chops to actually make a decent image). Anyway, there appear to be several extra parameters, like the various different Copal shutter sizes. Steve refers to Copal 0 to Copal 3; elsewhere I saw references to Copal A and B. Confused!

There's also the image circle. Steve's pics show some fairly extreme movements, but one review site was suggesting many lenses only have a big enough image circle for very minor movements. How big an image circle should one look for, and how do you find out how big it is for any given lens?

Clearly there are some lenses available in the £100-£500 range. Then I followed some recommendations and found I was looking at lenses for £3,500! Gulp...
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I'm also very new to all this LF stuff, but found a useful guide on a LF Photography forum. Basically it's a list of lenses with specs - image circle etc for 5x4, 10x8 etc..
Might be of some use/interest?

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/lenses/
 
I decided to break out the LF gear and wipe off the layers of dust... I'm just going to load up a slide or two and take a few still life shots but whilst it was all out I thought I would take a quick phone shot of it all.

My small collection of large format equipment. by Andy, on Flickr

So we have a Wista Field 45 which I picked up for a very reasonable price (£240 I think) its a bit tired cosmetically but everything works fine.
On the camera is a Nikkor 180mm f5.6 which is a super sharp lens and is in excellent condition, this cost about £140 I think.
The old brass lens is a Thornton Pickard Beck Symetrical, about 100mm and about 100 years old, this was £30 but it does need a shutter attached on the end of the lens (or a top hat :) )
The smaller lens is a Fujinon 135mm f5.6 which was £100, tiny little thing and pin sharp although the slower speeds are waaaaay out.
The largest lens is a Yamasaki Tel-Congo 240mm f6.3, another lens in immaculate condition which is extremely sharp and only cost £90.

Just thought it might help people who are thinking of going large to see that it doesn't necessarily have to cost a fortune.

Andy
 
Out of interest Andy do you dev your own E6 or send them off to get developed?

If so how, I mean I guess you do not send the film holder and film off?

I have been watching a lot of videos on Large Format and people use colour film so always intrigued on how they get them processed.
 
Knikki said:
Out of interest Andy do you dev your own E6 or send them off to get developed?

If so how, I mean I guess you do not send the film holder and film off?

I have been watching a lot of videos on Large Format and people use colour film so always intrigued on how they get them processed.
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The normal way to handle it is to unload the holders and place the exposed film into an empty/spare film box. You can then mail that off to the lab (with clear instructions/labels) and they will process and return the film to you.

It works pretty well, although it means you need a spare box or boxes before you start which is sometimes a pain
 
Well this is my recent addition:

2018-03-04%2012.18.13_zps4rqagxtf.jpg


A Toyo G45 monorail and a few barrel lenses. The camera is in great condition

I bought the lenses from the same seller as the camera on ebay, only one has a shutter at the moment, and that's the tiny Leonar Extra Rapide mounted on the lensboard, the others are a Kodak Anastigmat, a Bausch and Lomb Tessar for 5x7 and a Cooke Anastigmat.

Thanks to @Andysnap I'm looking into the Fujinon lenses on ebay, but they may have to wait until next payday!
 
Knikki said:
Out of interest Andy do you dev your own E6 or send them off to get developed?

If so how, I mean I guess you do not send the film holder and film off?

I have been watching a lot of videos on Large Format and people use colour film so always intrigued on how they get them processed.
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I do my own 5x4 developing but i dont shoot slide film, its too expensive and I am rubbish at metering for it. :)
 
robhooley167 said:
Well this is my recent addition:

2018-03-04%2012.18.13_zps4rqagxtf.jpg


A Toyo G45 monorail and a few barrel lenses. The camera is in great condition

I bought the lenses from the same seller as the camera on ebay, only one has a shutter at the moment, and that's the tiny Leonar Extra Rapide mounted on the lensboard, the others are a Kodak Anastigmat, a Bausch and Lomb Tessar for 5x7 and a Cooke Anastigmat.

Thanks to @Andysnap I'm looking into the Fujinon lenses on ebay, but they may have to wait until next payday!
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It does seem that the little fujinon lenses are still a bit of a bargain, especially as they are very sharp and easy to carry. Mine definitely needs a service though.
 
I've got three fujinon lenses they're great I sold my 150mm schneider convertible mainly because it's flared and partly because it's convertible longer fl was too long for the short rail of my arca .
 
Here's mine...

5x4 Outfit s.jpg

The camera is a Shen Hao HZX45-II - plenty of movements and decent bellows extension. Bought in super-very-excellent-plus-plus condition a few years ago from Ffordes for £500 (when they were £700 new - now up to £900, apparently). The fitted lens is a Schneider 150mm f5.6 Symmar-S, and the other one is a Fujinon 90mm f5.6 SWD. I don't recall what the lenses cost, but probably £200-250 each, certainly no more.

Accessories from back-left are: ground glass protector (folded perspex, slides in like a film holder), 3 film holders, bag bellows for use with the 90mm if I want to do movements, On top of the dark cloth, a Minolta spotmeter with two ND filters (allows me to meter for 6asa and 3asa). The coloured filters are 82mm to fit the wide angle lens, and behind them are lens hoods for each lens and a step-up ring to fit the filters onto the 150mm. Then there's the home-brew loupe. and the caps for the 150mm.

Not shown: cleaning stuff, emergency rain cover, the 5-quid 105mm lens robbed from a knackered Adox 6x9 folder (not normally carried), another lens board with a pinhole on it, and a Minolta incident light meter (currently being carried to see if it becomes part of the LF kit).

This lot just fits into an old Billingham about the size of a 335...

5x4 Outfit Bag.jpg

Nikon FM included for scale.

It's all a pretty tight fit in the bag. I've been musing on whether to get a longer lens (210 or 240mm), and that definitely won't fit, so a bigger bag is on the cards if the lens happens.

For those new to large format, it's worth noting that the cost of accessories can mount up, although bargains can be had with some waiting and watching (I got the meter and bag bellows for much less than they typically go for, and the ancient Billingham was well-cheap). A bit of DIY can help as well - the loupe is detailed in an earlier post, and the dark cloth was made with the aid a sewing machine, as were the elastic dark slide retainers on the film holders. The 'emergency rain cover' is one of those elasticated covers for small rucksacks (about a fiver).

A word about filters - big ones cost more. Mine were relatively cheap: an uncoated Hoya and three uncoated Koods (reputedly made by Hoya). The Hoya was bought used, the rest new (as were the hoods and step-up ring), and there's probably £150 or so in that lot. On the other hand, it potentially doesn't pay to buy smaller filters if you think you'll end up with a lens needing bigger ones - unless you want to carry two (or more) sets of filters around.
 
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@Nomad Z would it work to buy square coloured filters to go with your Grads?

@Andysnap am I right that the Thornton Pickard is the tiny lens to the left, and the (allegedly tiny) Fuji is one of the larger ones to the right?
 
ChrisR said:
@Nomad Z would it work to buy square coloured filters to go with your Grads?
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I certainly went with square coloured filters for mine Chris. It makes composition so much easier on the ground glass without the red or orange filter stealing the light, then I can slip it in just before making the exposure. It does mean the extra faff of a square filter system though which if not using grads etc wouldn't be worth it just for the B&W filters
 
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