Looking for a mirrorless CSC

Cast your vote

  • Fujifilm X-T2

    Votes: 19 59.4%

  • Olympus OM-D E M5 II

    Votes: 9 28.1%

  • Sony a7 II

    Votes: 4 12.5%
  • Total voters
    32
I’d go with the X-T2 or X-T20 ( which I’ve got ) and save yourself some cash, I’ve owned various csc gear and liked them all yet found the Fuji lens collection and prices overall gave me the best choice.
The fuji offers decent autofocus for tracking movement subjects ( not so much benefit for your food photos ) good selection of lenses that are very good and reasonable priced and image quality is very good.

The Sony has a edge on image quality yet most of the lenses are bigger and more expensive, so it’s only the camera body that’s compact with a lot on lenses,
The 35mm 2.8 is compact and made it a nice combo but i still switched back to fuji.

M43 are all nice and compact plenty of lenses, IS built into quite a few bodies ( unlike most the fuji s ) yet i found i preferred the Fuji images and it’s higher iso was cleaner so i just kept returning to fuji where ive no interest in switching yet again anytime soon

Try also checking out the FujiShop refurb section same warranty as new and they look new, sometimes 10% discount codes about too yet only works on cameras not on the lenses there.
 
Ed Sutton said:
That won't be a mirrorless CSC then, it'll be a DSLR. :D
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TBH if you get something like the D750 and the smaller primes it's not actually that big a system, it's actually pretty lightweight. When I use mine with the 50mm f1.8 I'm always surprised how small and light it is.
 
woof woof said:
Nikon 750D, Sony A7 and A6500 and Panasonic GX9 all with 50mm FF FoV lenses.

http://camerasize.com/compact/#567.353,487.580,691.410,770.411,ha,t

http://camerasize.com/compact/#567.353,487.580,691.410,770.411,ha,b
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Yes the D750 is undeniably bigger, but in the real world with a prime it actually feels quite small and light. Clearly my EM1 and say 45mm is smaller and lighter, but I'm always surprised when I pick my D750 up with the 50mm as it's not the heavy brick I assume it's going to be ;)
 
IBIS won't be of any help if you're shooting food being cooked, staff rushing around, etc. An X-T2 has good subject tracking plus good high ISO performance and very good lenses. You can pick one up here on the forum or in the Fuji refurb store. I was going to say for this specific situation I would probably get a used FF DSLR and fast 35mm prime, but you've said you don't want a DSLR. The only other comment I would add is that IMO I would use a tripod for the presentation of the food; it's fine to get documentary style pics but if the food looks appealing then you should portray it in the best way possible, and this would be with a tripod.
 
So many fanboys on here ... has OP run away yet? :D

Ed Sutton said:
That won't be a mirrorless CSC then, it'll be a DSLR. :D
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Nonsense btw, any of these systems can do low light, OP doesn't need stupid numbers, afaik nobody cooks in the dark! :p

Primes? You cannot beat M43 for pricing, size, weight and range. Name some options that are not gigantic that Dslr will have over M43 by way of good primes.
 
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I had a look at the Olympus PEN-F today - what a gorgeous camera it is! It had the Panasonic 17 f1.7 lens on it. I didn't have a chance to test the IBIS but since Olympus has the best IBIS around I'd imagine it would be pretty good.

How do you find the M43 IQ compared with FF and APS-C cameras you've had?

Cagey75 said:
So many fanboys on here ... has OP run away yet? :D



Nonsense btw, any of these systems can do low light, OP doesn't need stupid numbers, afaik nobody cooks in the dark! :p

Primes? You cannot beat M43 for pricing, size, weight and range. Name some options that are not gigantic that Dslr will have over M43 by way of good primes.
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southernjessie said:
I had a look at the Olympus PEN-F today - what a gorgeous camera it is! It had the Panasonic 17 f1.7 lens on it. I didn't have a chance to test the IBIS but since Olympus has the best IBIS around I'd imagine it would be pretty good.

How do you find the M43 IQ compared with FF and APS-C cameras you've had?
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The Pen F has to be one of the best looking cameras on the market, however I didn't find it great to hold ergonomically, the EM5-II and EM1 are much better in this regards imo. Also, the EVF is not as big as the EM5-II or EM1 and you do notice it if you're used to those.

I know you didn't ask me directly but I struggle to tell the difference in IQ of the M4/3 cameras I've had (EM10, EM5-II and EM1) and the APS-C cameras I've had (Sony A77, A77-II and Fuji XT1), in fact I prefer it to the Fuji. When compared to my D750 there is a difference, but it's not huge at all. The biggest difference for me is the relative lack of shallow DOF, and noise at high ISO.
 
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Cagey75 said:
Primes? You cannot beat M43 for pricing, size, weight and range. Name some options that are not gigantic that Dslr will have over M43 by way of good primes.
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Nikon's older AFD primes are small (for FF), light, cheap (used), proper manual focusing not fly-by-wire. :eek:

Leaving the bitching aside, I wonder if a reasonably high end compact might be suit the OP's needs.
 
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southernjessie said:
I had a look at the Olympus PEN-F today - what a gorgeous camera it is! It had the Panasonic 17 f1.7 lens on it. I didn't have a chance to test the IBIS but since Olympus has the best IBIS around I'd imagine it would be pretty good.

How do you find the M43 IQ compared with FF and APS-C cameras you've had?
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Whenever I have switched systems I was prepared to take a hit on IQ, but since I PP every single image I plan to keep, I knew there was never going to be much in it. The drop from FF [D800E] to Fuji APSC was a lot more significant then the switch from Fuji to M43, I can tell you that for sure. I find M43 very capable, and I can only tell a difference when I push above ISO 800, even then there's not as much in it as you might expect. Images can be noisier, but the noise is different. It's not as 'mushy' it's a more ... sandy kind of noise, and I don't mind it up to 3200, I never shoot beyond that level with any camera, no matter how capable. I'm happy enough with M43 for now, it was the IBIS that I craved tbh, and if I take a minor hit on IQ for it, so be it. Fuji have peaked my interest again with the XH1, but that's a pricey camera, If I was shooting with higher end M43 I would be seriously considering it maybe. Like the G9, GH5, EM1 mkII - as they're in the same ball park.
 
Thanks mate – very helpful. I’m mindful that we might be deviating a bit from the OP’s post for advice so I’ll probably ask more specific questions in the Olympus thread.

How high can you go with noise with say a EM5-II or EM1 and still get ok results? I’m assuming the Oly IBIS is so good that you can get non blurry pics at very low shutter speeds for still life, e.g. 1/10?

snerkler said:
The Pen F has to be one of the best looking cameras on the market, however I didn't find it great to hold ergonomically, the EM5-II and EM1 are much better in this regards imo. Also, the EVF is not as big as the EM5-II or EM1 and you do notice it if you're used to those.

I know you didn't ask me directly but I struggle to tell the difference in IQ of the M4/3 cameras I've had (EM10, EM5-II and EM1) and the APS-C cameras I've had (Sony A77, A77-II and Fuji XT1), in fact I prefer it to the Fuji. When compared to my D750 there is a difference, but it's not huge at all. The biggest difference for me is the relative lack of shallow DOF, and noise at high ISO.
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Cheers - I think I'm similiar in that I'd love to have IBIS for the stuff I shoot (museums, still life, landscapes with a tripod, cityscapes etc).

Cagey75 said:
Whenever I have switched systems I was prepared to take a hit on IQ, but since I PP every single image I plan to keep, I knew there was never going to be much in it. The drop from FF [D800E] to Fuji APSC was a lot more significant then the switch from Fuji to M43, I can tell you that for sure. I find M43 very capable, and I can only tell a difference when I push above ISO 800, even then there's not as much in it as you might expect. Images can be noisier, but the noise is different. It's not as 'mushy' it's a more ... sandy kind of noise, and I don't mind it up to 3200, I never shoot beyond that level with any camera, no matter how capable. I'm happy enough with M43 for now, it was the IBIS that I craved tbh, and if I take a minor hit on IQ for it, so be it. Fuji have peaked my interest again with the XH1, but that's a pricey camera, If I was shooting with higher end M43 I would be seriously considering it maybe. Like the G9, GH5, EM1 mkII - as they're in the same ball park.
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southernjessie said:
Thanks mate – very helpful. I’m mindful that we might be deviating a bit from the OP’s post for advice so I’ll probably ask more specific questions in the Olympus thread.

How high can you go with noise with say a EM5-II or EM1 and still get ok results? I’m assuming the Oly IBIS is so good that you can get non blurry pics at very low shutter speeds for still life, e.g. 1/10?
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I do let my EM1 roam up to 6400 if needs be, but obviously it'll need NR in post. I can't find any examples of any shots of mine at 6400, but these are at 3200 and whilst some NR has been applied it still looks OK to my eyes (Obviously they're from award winning shots :LOL:)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/99443690@N04/32498591774/in/dateposted-public/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/99443690@N04/32531403483/in/dateposted-public/
 
southernjessie said:
Thanks mate – very helpful. I’m mindful that we might be deviating a bit from the OP’s post for advice so I’ll probably ask more specific questions in the Olympus thread.

How high can you go with noise with say a EM5-II or EM1 and still get ok results? I’m assuming the Oly IBIS is so good that you can get non blurry pics at very low shutter speeds for still life, e.g. 1/10?
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And another at 3200 ISO
https://www.flickr.com/photos/99443690@N04/34882850331/in/dateposted-public/
 
southernjessie said:
Looks pretty darned good mate - could you have used a slower S/S like even 1 second to lower the ISO?
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Yeah I could've if I'd been on my own, but on holiday I have to 'grab' shots and so don't steady myself as much as I should/like ;) If I take my time etc I can hand hold the EM1 and 12-40mm at around 0.4s consistently, sometimes slower but it's more hit and miss.
 
This is the G80, not Olympus but M43 and there's not much between them in terms of output:

1/6, ISO 2000:

Scrappy by K G, on Flickr

Reason for this example is very little NR in post - it's not the sharpest, that's down to me as I was crouched down taking it, but still, 1/6 and the noise aint so bad, I can definitely live with this. She was in near darkness, just feint light from the tv on standby.

Olympus seem to be better at handling noise, even my much older em5 mk1 is slightly better than the G80
 
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snerkler said:
The Pen F has to be one of the best looking cameras on the market, however I didn't find it great to hold ergonomically, the EM5-II and EM1 are much better in this regards imo. Also, the EVF is not as big as the EM5-II or EM1 and you do notice it if you're used to those.

I know you didn't ask me directly but I struggle to tell the difference in IQ of the M4/3 cameras I've had (EM10, EM5-II and EM1) and the APS-C cameras I've had (Sony A77, A77-II and Fuji XT1), in fact I prefer it to the Fuji. When compared to my D750 there is a difference, but it's not huge at all. The biggest difference for me is the relative lack of shallow DOF, and noise at high ISO.
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Biggest problem with the Pen-F to me is simply that spec wise, other than the improved sensor, it's basically the same or worse than the EM5ii. So you really have to fall in love with the looks and feel. I still want one though. Head and shoulders the best looking digital camera yet in my opinion.
 
So since someone threw the PEN-F in there I’ve been to have a look and really like the look and feel of that one. It comes with the 17mm 1.8 lens which seemed good enough for what I need.
It’s light enough for me to carry it out and about.
Although I haven’t quite made up my mind, I’m leaning towards this one!
 
Peach said:
So since someone threw the PEN-F in there I’ve been to have a look and really like the look and feel of that one. It comes with the 17mm 1.8 lens which seemed good enough for what I need.
It’s light enough for me to carry it out and about.
Although I haven’t quite made up my mind, I’m leaning towards this one!
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Go with your gut - or you'll go crazy trying to decide ;)
 
My personal suggestion - the Fuji X-T20 and a small hand grip - cheaper and not that far off the X-T2 and I doubt you'd need the weather sealing.

Do check the minimum focus distance of the lenses for food shots though - this is an old article but generally in line with the current affordable lens lineup, but take a look here (link)
 
JohnN said:
My personal suggestion - the Fuji X-T20 and a small hand grip - cheaper and not that far off the X-T2 and I doubt you'd need the weather sealing.

Do check the minimum focus distance of the lenses for food shots though - this is an old article but generally in line with the current affordable lens lineup, but take a look here (link)
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Olympus 12-40mm's great for this, can get pretty close (y)
 
@snerkler I totally agree, when I had one before that was a great lens, one of the really strong ones from the Oly lineup - that and the 50mm 1.4

Also @Peach take a look on flickr, put in something like food photography, then look at the images you like and check the exif - if the poster isn't a pain and drop the info then you'll see what they took it with - for reference the PEN-F is an m43 and there are a few types out there, so say a Panasonic or Olympus may be the same general sensor, obviously Fuji will say Fuji, but a quick google will say what type of sensor each has and you'll get a feel for the way the different sensors work with depth of field, hell you may even find that a phone works for you.

PS : Apologises that last suggestion may well throw all previous thoughts out of the window ;)
 
After looking up how a pro would go about making high standard food photography I think if I had a £1500 budget I would not spend it all on a body and lens.

I would try to balance it between lighting set up and camera / lens.

If you look up food photography set up you will see they mostly have a lighting set up and I imagine for good reason which is probably that it does not go so well without it.
 
As far as lenses go, all these cameras can be used with legacy lenses. There are a number of exceptionally good old lenses IBIS is a good idea imo, it will give you 2-3 stops extra with an unstabilised lens. MF is my preference for food photography: I did a bit of that for hotels in Qatar, and one of the main lenses I used for that was a Pentax smc-A 50mm f1. 4.

If you get the Sony, I would recommend paying extra for the 24-70mm f4 rather than getting the 28-70mm. Another option is Minolta or Canon zooms, which can be used with an AF adapter, though AF will be a bit slower than native lenses.
 
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Didn't the OP say she didn't want tripods and so on, if so I would imagine that would extend to lighting setups too, but I'm sure she'll be along soon to comment, that said you're right if she wants the really good shots lighting would be a must.
 
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JohnN said:
Didn't the OP say she didn't want tripods and so on, if so I would imagine that would extend to lighting setups too, but I'm sure she'll be along soon to comment, that said you're right if she wants the really good shots lighting would be a must.
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That I understand, but as long as the OP accepts compromises in image quality variance then that's fine, the food sites that show off their food, use consistent lighting and techniques. Now I understand that the OP wants a more documentary approach, but as we all know that is not as simple as just pointing a well specced camera at the target!!!! But IMO significant consideration should be given to lighting, even if its some off-camera flash.
 
Agreed, even a well thought out window lit shot would work well for a one or two off.
 
snerkler said:
I do let my EM1 roam up to 6400 if needs be, but obviously it'll need NR in post. I can't find any examples of any shots of mine at 6400, but these are at 3200 and whilst some NR has been applied it still looks OK to my eyes (Obviously they're from award winning shots :LOL:)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/99443690@N04/32498591774/in/dateposted-public/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/99443690@N04/32531403483/in/dateposted-public/
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Just wanted to add something about higher ISO MFT shots.

I use any ISO up to and including 25,600. Results will vary with light and scene and I wouldn't expect gallery quality 2m wide prints I'm happy with whole images for screen and smaller print use after only basic processing and especially after resizing for final use.

Here's an ISO 25,600 picture saved in my test folder, Panasonic GX7 and 14mm f2.8, f8, 1/30.

1-P1010359.jpg
 
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JohnN said:
My personal suggestion - the Fuji X-T20 and a small hand grip - cheaper and not that far off the X-T2 and I doubt you'd need the weather sealing.

Do check the minimum focus distance of the lenses for food shots though - this is an old article but generally in line with the current affordable lens lineup, but take a look here (link)
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That's a great help thanks.

This the type of stuff I'll be doing https://www.instagram.com/honestcrustsourdoughpizza many of these are mine, just done on my iPhone
as you can see we need a little professional touch!
 
Mr Perceptive said:
That I understand, but as long as the OP accepts compromises in image quality variance then that's fine, the food sites that show off their food, use consistent lighting and techniques. Now I understand that the OP wants a more documentary approach, but as we all know that is not as simple as just pointing a well specced camera at the target!!!! But IMO significant consideration should be given to lighting, even if its some off-camera flash.
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I appreciate that lighting and a tripod should be considered for the best possible results. I'm really limited on time and space so it's really not an option. I just need a massive improvement from what I've already got and something portable thats going to give me that.
 
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