Jag Diesel in trouble

Mr Bump

Mr Bump

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Paul
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Yes
Good, lets get that awfull pollution off the road.
 
yup 90% of jag vehicles run on that awful diesel which good folk are stopping buying so sales are diving, good oh.

@nilagin jobs vs lives are you for real?
 
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I do t think that there has been a proper study by unbiased people into this ever. From 1997 ‘let’s go green’ to now let’s ban diesel. It’s all been knee jerk reaction.
 
20,000 deaths a year in this country alone. That was on the Dispatches about hauliers that cheat and turn off the adblue system to save money and cause pollution between 3 and 10 times what it should be. That's a lot. Now they can remap the trucks and it's almost impossible to tell until they're tested on a rolling road during an MOT. The sooner that those that fit these cheat systems end up in jail the better. That's why the air is filthy. I'd also bet a lot of bus companies turn them off to save money which is why you see all those stinking buses with endless trails of smoke pouring out of them.

It's a shame about JLR but diesel is dead. Sales are falling everywhere.

You can get a 2 litre petrol hybrid in the Range Rover. They need to make that the standard engine. It's not as if a hybrid is new. Toyota made the prius well over a decade ago.
 
Diesel won't be dead until the range and hauling power of other methods catches up. Euro6 cars will continue to be bought, especially as company motors.

And don't talk to me about so called clean hybrids and the awful mining and production methods of battery materials. Plus the mpg is just plain awful on the phev vehicles, it's almost half of that of a good ranging diesel.

I get a feeling this will need a merge with the other thread.
 
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It would be interesting to see a comparison between a modern (2015+) diesel and an older, 10 yrs plus petrol car as far as emmisions and the nasty NOx.

I seem to remember reading somewhere that the older petrol engine was dirtier than a modern diesel but can't remember where now.
 
JLR are at least owned by Tata who have deep pockets.

JLR need to work on reliability as well. They're usually at the bottom of the reliability tables.
 
PaulF said:
It would be interesting to see a comparison between a modern (2015+) diesel and an older, 10 yrs plus petrol car as far as emmisions and the nasty NOx.

I seem to remember reading somewhere that the older petrol engine was dirtier than a modern diesel but can't remember where now.
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It was emission analytics doing a test I think. It was only one car of each type. Think the petrol was also a VAG so it would never have met the standard anyway. They only do the cheat when the bonnet is up and other criteria was met from what I remember.
 
srichards said:
It was emission analytics doing a test I think. It was only one car of each type. Think the petrol was also a VAG so it would never have met the standard anyway. They only do the cheat when the bonnet is up and other criteria was met from what I remember.
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That's the one I think.
A Skoda diesel and a Golf petrol, the older petrol produced more NOx by a long way than the newer diesel.

Seem to remember the same company pointed out that the official test for new cars was no where near real world conditions for all vehicles.
 
srichards said:
It's a shame about JLR but diesel is dead. Sales are falling everywhere.
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All UK car sales are declining at present, petrol or diesel, it just appears that recently a huge part of JLR's sales have been diesel. It is only in recent years that JLR started building their own diesel engines again and stopped using Ford units.
PaulF said:
It would be interesting to see a comparison between a modern (2015+) diesel and an older, 10 yrs plus petrol car as far as emmisions and the nasty NOx.

I seem to remember reading somewhere that the older petrol engine was dirtier than a modern diesel but can't remember where now.
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Most 10 yrs plus petrol engines weren't direct injection, their Nox emissions will be low. Modern direct injection petrol engines are now being fitted with GPF's.
 
nilagin said:
All UK car sales are declining at present, petrol or diesel, it just appears that recently a huge part of JLR's sales have been diesel. It is only in recent years that JLR started building their own diesel engines again and stopped using Ford units.

Most 10 yrs plus petrol engines weren't direct injection, their Nox emissions will be low. Modern direct injection petrol engines are now being fitted with GPF's.
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It's why I don't want a DI petrol. They'll be the next diesel.

I'm also wondering what adblue does to air quality. It might reduce one lot of nasties just to increase another lot.
 
srichards said:
It's why I don't want a DI petrol. They'll be the next diesel.

I'm also wondering what adblue does to air quality. It might reduce one lot of nasties just to increase another lot.
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The box from a direct injection petrol engine is nowhere near the levels produced by a diesel engine. Plus manufacturers are also incorporating additional pfi systems to the inlet manifolds electric turbos, cylinder deactivation and mild hybrid alternator/electric motor systems to bring the nox and co2 levels down even further.
 
I think we need to put a tax on volcano's and cows breaking wind too...

There are many elements involved in the whole environmental damage and sustainability. Not least the human trait of consumerism. I thought this video was a good watch when I did my Environmental diploma.

https://storyofstuff.org/movies/story-of-stuff/
 
Mr Bump said:
Good, lets get that awfull pollution off the road.
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I think your statement would carry more weight if you referred to HGV;s, Buses, old black cabs, aircraft and cargo ships before cheering and supporting the loss of more industry!

I say clear up the biggest polluters first to make a huge difference instead of the little mans contribution Joe public has always been the easy target.
we could always try reducing holdups and make traffic flow instead of making up new traffic schemes that cause the congestion.
congestion = pollution :rolleyes:

Also, how many unnecessary car journeys would your average Joe make if the tax was on fuel instead of a road tax?
 
AHILL said:
I think your statement would carry more weight if you referred to HGV;s, Buses, old black cabs, aircraft and cargo ships before cheering and supporting the loss of more industry!

I say clear up the biggest polluters first to make a huge difference instead of the little mans contribution Joe public has always been the easy target.
we could always try reducing holdups and make traffic flow instead of making up new traffic schemes that cause the congestion.
congestion = pollution :rolleyes:

Also, how many unnecessary car journeys would your average Joe make if the tax was on fuel instead of a road tax?
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What would you glass as an unnecessary car journey?

And putting trucks and aircraft out of business might cost a few jobs don’t you think. Any measures will effect someone, be that Joe Public or a business. Any costs to business with either make them unviable or be passed onto the consumer, or Joe again.
 
I would call an unnecessary journey one could easily walk to. ie: school run, paper shop or out for a bimble.

I don't think I suggested putting trucks & aircraft out of business at a cost to employment!
the forms of transport I suggested just happen to be some of the biggest polluters on the planet and as far as I know they are unregulated and making very little effort (if any) to cleaning their act up.
from your comments it sounds like you are more concerned from a cost to yourself point of view rather than cleaning up the atmosphere for the benefit to the planet.
yes all measures to clean up will cost a lot of money to achieve and someone has to pick up the bill.
 
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AHILL said:
I would call an unnecessary journey one could easily walk to. ie: school run, paper shop out for a bimble.

I don't think I suggested putting trucks & aircraft out of business at a cost to employment!
the forms of transport I suggested just happen to be some of the biggest polluters on the planet and as far as I know they are unregulated and making very little effort (if any) to cleaning their act up.
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You don’t think trucks have had any emission changes then? How about all the Euro 123456 etc engines, how about Adblue? There is also lots of work going on to make aircraft engines cleaner and more efficient, granted, mostly to make more money. But that’s the name of the game. Maybe holidays are unnecessary in any case. ;) :D
 
rick448 said:
You don’t think trucks have had any emission changes then? How about all the Euro 123456 etc engines, how about Adblue? There is also lots of work going on to make aircraft engines cleaner and more efficient, granted, mostly to make more money. But that’s the name of the game. Maybe holidays are unnecessary in any case. ;) :D
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How about all the 10 yr old+ trucks, taxis, aircraft etc that were made before Euro encap engines were even thought of!
 
AHILL said:
How about all the 10 yr old+ trucks, taxis, aircraft etc that were made before Euro encap engines were even thought of!
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True, but if they all need replacing then costs will be sky high, how about all the old cars that are tax exempt? I'm not disagreeing that something needs doing, all I am saying is that there is no simple way of achieving it.

It's much like renewable energy, how much energy do people think it takes to manufacture a wind turbine, and then transport it into position off the coast, then fly everyone in and out to service and maintain it? Not to mention getting the power back to land.

I'd worry more about countries like the USA and China who produce many many times the pollution that we in the UK do. I won't disagree that every little helps though. In the meantime I will pop out for an unnecessary trip to my favourite restaurant for a few beers and a meal and watch the Grand National. Trouble is my horse will be worn out after trotting all the way from Ireland ;)
 
srichards said:
JLR are at least owned by Tata who have deep pockets.

JLR need to work on reliability as well. They're usually at the bottom of the reliability tables.
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It's a while since I read up on cars, I know Jag and LR used to be quite bad but I was sure that Jag at least did better in more recent years so I just googled the JD Power and got this... dated 25th October 2017. Here's the link...

https://www.buyacar.co.uk/cars/478/most-reliable-cars-rated-by-jd-power-uk

Best large and luxury car section...

"The Jaguar XF is the stand-out winner of this group, a full mark ahead of the overall score for the other in this category, and even further ahead when it comes to the frequency of major problems."

Worst was the Audi A6.

In the family SUV section the Audi Q3 and 5 were stated as being the worst, Land Rover weren't mentioned amongst the best or worst.

That's as far as I got.

:D

I had a 4ltr S Type and it had one fault which was a well known overheating problem, there was a split in a pipe, apart from that it was simply excellent.

PS.
Another copy and paste...

"The average car had 131 problems. Far below this figure was Fiat, with 165 issues per 100 cars. The reputation of German car makers took a hit, with Mercedes only scraping in at just above average - its cars suffered 129 problems per 100 vehicles. Even so, that's a considerably better result than its rivals, which were at the bottom. Audis had 187 problems per 100 cars and and BMW was last, by some distance, with 198."

The Germans do talk a good game though :D
 
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Weee I will pop a champagne tonight. Who cares about all those procariate workers?! Let's rejoice they will not be making another dirty car ever again. If only they stopped exhaling CO2 altogether.

/sarcasm
 
Heavy lardy vehicles that need dirty diesels to get them from a to b it's time this mode of transport was shuffled off
 
Mr Bump said:
Heavy lardy vehicles that need dirty diesels to get them from a to b it's time this mode of transport was shuffled off
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I'm sure most folk agree but there's no point in knee-jerk blanket measures, there just isn't anything else ready to replace them yet, the infrastructure for electric is decades away from being anywhere near sufficient.
 
Not to mention electricity isn't free nor non-polluting energy. Though I guess as most people don't live near a power station they are happy to go with the electricity is clean option. Engines are far cleaner and fuel efficient than ever, and there is no easy fix for any of this.
 
I don't work for JLR directly but one of their suppliers (seating) and as of May 7th we are down to 2 shifts from 3 until at least August. So I'm at the front line of any job losses.
 
Oh and regarding China they are you going full bore on renewables and the whole EV cars and buses. They know full well how bad the pollution is and they want to change that.
 
chrism_scotland said:
I'm sure most folk agree but there's no point in knee-jerk blanket measures, there just isn't anything else ready to replace them yet, the infrastructure for electric is decades away from being anywhere near sufficient.
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plenty of cars out there to buy that are not as polluting as jags and land rovers though? So its hardly knee jerk.
People are not buying diesel because they have actually realised its awful for the environment.
Jag and land rover make 90% of there vehicles with a diesel engine so they will suffer much more than other car companies over the years.

They have also not developed hybrid solutions like other major car companies.
I wouldn't be surprised if they will be in trouble in 12 months.
 
Mr Bump said:
They have also not developed hybrid solutions like other major car companies.
I wouldn't be surprised if they will be in trouble in 12 months.
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Is that so? Odd that they announced last year that by 2020 they will have a hybrid or electric powertrain option for every model in their line up.
 
nilagin said:
Is that so? Odd that they announced last year that by 2020 they will have a hybrid or electric powertrain option for every model in their line up.
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yet most other manufactures have had them in their line up for years, announcing and promising are not delivering are they?
 
The all electric I Pace goes on sale around now too and that should be delivered this year, September on from what I have gathered. Biggest market segment is now the SUV one.

Vauxhall have just put all their dealers on notice so all is not rosey generally.
 
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