1 same as an EV in stationary traffic, engine off and no fuel being used, as EV, no AC etc, so yes my car will average 43 in town or more on a run, consistently up to about 80mph, I won't ever run out of fuel because of the abundance of petrol stations as opposed to the scarcity of charging points.
2 you would be unwise to purchase any new technology in its first throws of design, do you really want to be lumbered with a very out of date battery pack 3,4 or 5 years down the line, I don't.
3 Renault are being very decent in allowing you to not have to purchase upfront something that could well be old hat in 3 years, purchasing the battery upfront adds to the overall cost of the car and it's hardly fair to discuss ownership costs and ignore initial purchase price. However if you use deferred cost option i.e. final balloon payment you are in effect leasing the battery anyway.
4 how can you ignore the fact the car costs a great deal more than a similar ICE, it all comes down to monthly payments and running costs assuming you don't pay cash up front, but even if you did you would still have far less in your savingaps account after buying an EV.
5 Pollution really, so whereas current ICE cars will easily last 8/10 years as the technology won't have moved on too far, I would suggest most EV owners will want to trade up as the technology is rapidly improved upon, or so we are constantly being told by EV supporters e.g. battery range.
Battery creation is a dirty item and creates enormous pollution, but as it's not in the UK I suppose it's ok?
6 50-70 acceleration on a motorway? You will be on the inside lane between lorries if that is your performance criteria, personally I prefer not to be wedged between lorries or worried I won't have the performance to overtake someone doing 60/65 in the middle lane, fully aware that most people seem to drive at 75/80 in the outside lane, which may be illegal but is real world driving.
Sorry but most EV are no better than town runabouts at which they are brilliant but unfortunately a lot of us need cars that will do 150/200 miles in a single trip without having to recharge or worry we won't make it. Or worse still will have to crawl along at 55/60 on a motorway.
1. Again, have you considered different charging speeds as I've previously mentioned? home charging? It's like you have a petrol station at home, fuel is delivered to you without getting off the sofa
2. By same logic the original 2012 X100 class camera will no longer take good pictures? In 10 years time, my 13 years old EV will be the same as before, perhaps slightly less range but even if it can only do 40 miles (down form 80), it is still more than enough for school runs.
3. The Renault battery lease doesn't make ANY sense once the car hit 5 years old. Mark my word, they'll offer battery buy-out option on their
second hand stock in the next few years.
4. The savings account will re-inflate faster than with an ICE car. The running cost have to include all costs: depreciation, servicing and fuel, we are already past the breakeven point for running costs of EV vs ICE cars.
5. EV is the same as other cars, as first owner trades up, the cars enter
second hand market. My '64 reg Nissan Leaf Tekna are still being advertised for around same £9000 on Autotrader, after 10 months of me owning my one from a main dealer. They are holding their value nicely due to people are catching on to the low running costs.
6. 50-70 seems to be the standard metric. I've been faster than your "real world driving" in my Leaf no problem. But indeed likes of 2018 Leaf 40 let alone older Leaf's are not efficient at that speed. The motor tech is not being marketed well enough. The motor tech used in Tesla and Hyundai are better suited to motorway driving compared to Leaf.
But the point I was making is gearing. Having gotten used to instant power, I have been caught out in my (more powerful on paper) diesel Skoda when trying to slip into a gap in the faster lane. The power just doesn't arrive until the DSG sorts itself out (you'd think cruising at highest gear, it should downshift instantly), by that time, I have pressed more throttle than intended and the car jump forward with considerable engine noise. In EV, I get the exact power I demand the moment I demand it, they feel faster than their power figures suggest.
I agree current second hand EV's are all town runabouts. The emerging EV's will meet all your demands, the Telsa's, the Hyundai Kona, Kia Niro. Look at one with at least 60kWh battery to enable 200+ all weather real world driving range. (but keep in mind some, like new Leaf, have inefficient motors)
For me to buy an electric vehicle firstly it would need a 500 mile range at A road and motorway speeds. 300 mile range means realistically at the moment 220-250 as the scarcity of recharging points means you’d have to stop when the opportunity arose to recharge and even then you’d have no guarantee that you’d be able to.
Secondly I don’t want to have to break my journey to recharge/refuel. I drive to Norfolk which is around 350 miles and I generally do it one go with maybe a ten minute stop. I choose when and where I stop, not dicatated to by the ability to buy fuel/electricity at the inflated prices to be found at motorway service stations.
Don’t think an EV will be sitting on my drive as our main transport for a while yet.
I agree, EV isn't for everyone at the moment.
Nissan is well aware of this, and they do offer 7 days of ICE car usage for free if you buy their Leaf.
But you've got to be reasonable with range demands. The larger your battery, the more dead weight you are carrying during day-to-day driving. For the occasional 400 miles, you don't need 400 miles of range. When more EV's come on the market, there will be more rapid chargers (hopefully). But I personally think only a Tesla can replace my diesel Skoda, Tesla gets EV, they actually build infrastructure to enable long distance worry-free travel. Waiting for energy company to build unreliable chargers is not good enough for drivers.
My family sized estate car turns off in traffic so not really any difference to an EV car.
Charging rates, that is an interesting subject as I understand it there a a few different connectors and vehicle manufacturers are adopting proprietary systems for charging as apposed to a universal one, which would make things simpler and cheaper for all.
Those rapid chargers cannot be used on 'most EV's' though. The Nissan Leaf is reportedly the highest selling EV in the UK, the latest 2018 model can only charge at a maximum rate of 6.6kw, on a fast charger it is capable of going from 20% to 80% in around 60 minutes according to Nissan
https://www.nissan.co.uk/vehicles/new-vehicles/leaf/range-charging.html
Yep, climate control, lights, entertainment system etc all work when the engine is turned off in traffic, I assume the EV is also using power from the battery to keep the climate control, lights, entertainment system etc running or is that done by magic when the EV is stationary?
The 2018 Leaf can charge at either 6.6kW via AC (for example at home). Or 50kW DC rapid charging. The 40kWh Leaf is more densely packed but it hasn't got temperature management. They will charge fast on their first charge, should get back up to 80% in 40min. when the battery is cool. But after 250 miles when doing second rapid charge, you'd be lucky to get 30kW speed. It is a very disappointing car, and very very bad image for EV as long distance cars. Hence I have been banging on about Hyundai Ioniq and Kona EV.
My experience in my 24kWh Leaf had been 60% recovered within 30min, the more time you spend to charge top half of the battery the slower it gets. Beyond 80% it's not worth the wait. I've no doubt at ideal temperature, Leaf 40 can also recover 60% in 30min. 2019 Leaf 60kWh will have temperature management.
It's all open standard, the manufacturers choose different connectors, but only 1 will remain going into 2020. Here's some history:
- Type 1 is old AC plug for up to 7kW single phase charging.
- Type 2 is current AC plug for 7kW single phase charging and Renault Zoe three phase 43kW, it is be the standard for home or destination charging.
- Chademo is Japanese standard found on Japanese branded cars. It allows 50kW DC rapid charging.
- CCS is a combination of Type 2 and two extra pins for DC rapid charging, currently 50kW but plan to increase to 150kw then 350kw
- Tesla Type 2 DC super charging (which is an implementation of the Type 2 open standard no one else is using), currently 120kW, going to 500kW on "Elon time" (but beyond 150kW, dedicated DC pins are needed by the open standard, so perhaps Tesla will do CCS?)
For rapid charging, only CCS will remain in Europe. Not a problem for old cars because home charging cables will never go obsolete.
