Any medium format RF users?

Hallsy

Hallsy

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Andy
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Hi guys, I've been thinking about picking up a medium format range finder of late.

I have only really looked at the Fuji 645 & 690 versions, anything else to consider? I recently repaired an old Kodak Information for my FiL and when I put a test roll through it I really enjoyed having a relatively small & lightweight 6x9 body, but I didn't enjoy the viewfinder or best guess focusing (surprisingly they were mostly framed & focused OK)!!

For those who own the Fuji RF's, how do you feel about them? Do you use them a lot and feel they are worth their circa £400 price tags, or have they turned into a bit of a novelty purchase!? Do you find one format suits candids better than say landscapes? I realise the 645 is portrait when held landscape.

I'd be using it for travel/candids - the times when you're not necessarily going out to shoot, but for I/when you come across something interesting! My 124G is that camera right now if I want to shoot MF and travel light.

Any suggestions most welcome :)
 
I've had 2 Fuji GW690's a Mk1 and a Mk11, they have some of the sharpest lenses I've ever used. I just didn't like them in use, rather boxy and uninteresting, I didn't feel like I had any input somehow, almost digital. Funny thing is though whenever I see one at a good price I'm still tempted to get another, fortunately Mrs Snap always reminds me how much I didn't like them.

A couple of examples.

Kodak Ektar, 1/60th at f32 on the Mk1
Warmingham-Church-Graves by Andy, on Flickr

100% crop of the above
Warmingham-Church-Graves-100 by Andy, on Flickr

And a couple from the Mk11
Mow-Cop1 by Andy, on Flickr

Tonquin-Beach-Sunset2 by Andy, on Flickr

As I said above wonderful lenses and if you like how they feel and operate I suspect you'd have to spend a lot more to get the same quality. They are also very robust as they were made for Japanese togs who were shooting dozens of rolls a day of tourists.

Andy
 
Andysnap said:
I've had 2 Fuji GW690's a Mk1 and a Mk11, they have some of the sharpest lenses I've ever used. I just didn't like them in use, rather boxy and uninteresting, I didn't feel like I had any input somehow, almost digital. Funny thing is though whenever I see one at a good price I'm still tempted to get another, fortunately Mrs Snap always reminds me how much I didn't like them.

A couple of examples.

Kodak Ektar, 1/60th at f32 on the Mk1
Warmingham-Church-Graves by Andy, on Flickr

100% crop of the above
Warmingham-Church-Graves-100 by Andy, on Flickr

And a couple from the Mk11
Mow-Cop1 by Andy, on Flickr

Tonquin-Beach-Sunset2 by Andy, on Flickr

As I said above wonderful lenses and if you like how they feel and operate I suspect you'd have to spend a lot more to get the same quality. They are also very robust as they were made for Japanese togs who were shooting dozens of rolls a day of tourists.

Andy
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I had the exact same feeling with a GA645 (which I know isn't a rangefinder). The results from the lens was fantastic, easily the sharpest negatives I've had from any camera I've used, but the actual engagement just wasn't there. As a point and shoot camera it's pretty hard to beat though so I image in the GW's would be similar albeit with a little more involvement with focusing.
 
Hallsy said:
Hi guys, I've been thinking about picking up a medium format range finder of late.

I have only really looked at the Fuji 645 & 690 versions, anything else to consider? I recently repaired an old Kodak Information for my FiL and when I put a test roll through it I really enjoyed having a relatively small & lightweight 6x9 body, but I didn't enjoy the viewfinder or best guess focusing (surprisingly they were mostly framed & focused OK)!!

For those who own the Fuji RF's, how do you feel about them? Do you use them a lot and feel they are worth their circa £400 price tags, or have they turned into a bit of a novelty purchase!? Do you find one format suits candids better than say landscapes? I realise the 645 is portrait when held landscape.

I'd be using it for travel/candids - the times when you're not necessarily going out to shoot, but for I/when you come across something interesting! My 124G is that camera right now if I want to shoot MF and travel light.

Any suggestions most welcome :)
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In my opinion, if you want something that is MF, rangefinder, and better for travel than a 124G, it's going to come at a significant cost.
  • Fuji 645 RF-style cameras (I can't think of any of these that are technically rangefinders): Tend to have great lenses and I like the portrait orientation, but reliability and accurate focusing are significant issues. I could never trust the GA645 I owned to work throughout the duration of any holiday or to focus well. I personally would buy a Lomo LC-A 120 over any of the 645 offerings, as it is more reliable, comes with a warranty, is cheaper, and is even lighter and better for travel (the LC-A is technically zone focus, but so are some of Fuji's 645 wide-angle "rangefinders" and my zone focusing is more accurate than the auto-focusing on the other cameras).
  • Fuji 6x7, 6x8, 6x9 rangefinders: I have handled these a few times and considered buying one in Japan, but haven't actually owned one. I don't doubt their capability for good photographs, but they are HUGE! If you are travelling, I think travelling with a 124G is much easier. These are not travelling light.
  • The best options for easier travelling (not necessarily light, as the metal in these cameras often make them as heavy as a 124G, but in more compact form) with MF rangefinders are Bronica RF645, Plaubel Makina 67 (or 670, W67), and Fuji GF670 (or GF670W). Unfortunately, the best ones for travel don't come cheap. I currently own a Plaubel Makina 67, which is fantastic, but I definitely hesitated before pulling the trigger.

Edit: I forgot to include Mamiya 6 and Mamiya 7 in the last category with the Plaubels, etc. I wanted to compare the Mamiya 6 and 7 directly to the Plaubel, but I could never find a Mamiya RF in two trips to Japan last year. For some strange reason, and perhaps ironically, I saw many Mamiyas in Seoul last December, but I'd already bought my Plaubel by that point.
 
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Long long ago in a galaxy quite close to this one I used a variety of these big RFs: Mamiya Press; Mamiya Super 23; Linhoff 220. They all shared one characteristic: they were HUGE. For a while I used a Fuji 645S which is small and very cute with an excellent lens but it turned out to be astonishingly fragile. Then there's the Seagull 203 which is a folding camera and would have been the best of the lot if it had been better made. I'm sticking to my ancient Hasselblad outfit for the rare occasions I want to shoot MF film.

:tumbleweed:
 
I currently own a Mamiya 6 and had a 7ii a couple of years ago. I can highly recommend both. The 6 is smaller, lighter and a bit better value, so is probably the one to buy unless you want the very wide and excellent 43mm that's only available for the 7. They all have excellent viewfinders, built in meters and some of the finest lenses ever made for medium format.
 
chrism8 said:
Pentax are well known in the 645 format both in film and digital and the 6x7 format just in film.
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But Pentax medium format offerings are SLRs, while OP appears to be interested in rangefinders?

While I really like my Pentax 6x7, it's enormous and probably not my first choice for travel (although I have done it, so it's not impossible).
 
I have a Fuji 690 mk1 and I've used it a fair bit for travelling, it's surprisingly light but you would need an external lightmeter.

I'm not sure I can agree with comments that it's like digital, but everyone has their preferences
 
robhooley167 said:
I have a Fuji 690 mk1 and I've used it a fair bit for travelling, it's surprisingly light but you would need an external lightmeter.

I'm not sure I can agree with comments that it's like digital, but everyone has their preferences
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Yes, I probably put that badly, I found it just wasn't an engaging process which is how I feel when I shoot with a digital camera, it gets the job done for sure but not (for me) particularly enjoyably (I think :thinking:)
 
I've got a pair of Mamiya 6 and they are great, especially for travel/walk around use. The lenses are very nice, especially the 50mm.

They (like all rangefinders) are slightly flawed for landscape use as placing filters can be very tricky, but when you get it right or shoot subjects that don't need grads theyre phenomenal
 
Lots of good info and opinions there guys - thanks :)

Andysnap said:
I've had 2 Fuji GW690's a Mk1 and a Mk11, they have some of the sharpest lenses I've ever used. I just didn't like them in use, rather boxy and uninteresting, I didn't feel like I had any input somehow, almost digital. Funny thing is though whenever I see one at a good price I'm still tempted to get another, fortunately Mrs Snap always reminds me how much I didn't like them.

A couple of examples.

Kodak Ektar, 1/60th at f32 on the Mk1
Warmingham-Church-Graves by Andy, on Flickr

100% crop of the above
Warmingham-Church-Graves-100 by Andy, on Flickr

And a couple from the Mk11
Mow-Cop1 by Andy, on Flickr

Tonquin-Beach-Sunset2 by Andy, on Flickr

As I said above wonderful lenses and if you like how they feel and operate I suspect you'd have to spend a lot more to get the same quality. They are also very robust as they were made for Japanese togs who were shooting dozens of rolls a day of tourists.

Andy
Click to expand...

Great shots Andy! I was reading a thread (possibly started by Rob) yesterday where you had posted shortly after acquiring your 690, and noted that you didn't really like it!! Even though I have not used one, I perhaps understand where you are coming from - I do enjoy the process of shooting MF TLR's and SLR's, using and observing the image on the WLF, the generally slower process of use, and I guess some of that process is taken away with a rangefinder.

skysh4rk said:
In my opinion, if you want something that is MF, rangefinder, and better for travel than a 124G, it's going to come at a significant cost.
  • Fuji 645 RF-style cameras (I can't think of any of these that are technically rangefinders): Tend to have great lenses and I like the portrait orientation, but reliability and accurate focusing are significant issues. I could never trust the GA645 I owned to work throughout the duration of any holiday or to focus well. I personally would buy a Lomo LC-A 120 over any of the 645 offerings, as it is more reliable, comes with a warranty, is cheaper, and is even lighter and better for travel (the LC-A is technically zone focus, but so are some of Fuji's 645 wide-angle "rangefinders" and my zone focusing is more accurate than the auto-focusing on the other cameras).
  • Fuji 6x7, 6x8, 6x9 rangefinders: I have handled these a few times and considered buying one in Japan, but haven't actually owned one. I don't doubt their capability for good photographs, but they are HUGE! If you are travelling, I think travelling with a 124G is much easier. These are not travelling light.
  • The best options for easier travelling (not necessarily light, as the metal in these cameras often make them as heavy as a 124G, but in more compact form) with MF rangefinders are Bronica RF645, Plaubel Makina 67 (or 670, W67), and Fuji GF670 (or GF670W). Unfortunately, the best ones for travel don't come cheap. I currently own a Plaubel Makina 67, which is fantastic, but I definitely hesitated before pulling the trigger.

Edit: I forgot to include Mamiya 6 and Mamiya 7 in the last category with the Plaubels, etc. I wanted to compare the Mamiya 6 and 7 directly to the Plaubel, but I could never find a Mamiya RF in two trips to Japan last year. For some strange reason, and perhaps ironically, I saw many Mamiyas in Seoul last December, but I'd already bought my Plaubel by that point.
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Very informative skysh4rk - thanks. I was initially considering the GW690, but having seen a picture of one next to an RB, it does look like quite a beast - although without looking up the specs, I don't imagine it is very heavy. The Plaubel Makina, Bronica RF and Mamiya 6/7 would be great, but I have not really considered them as they out of budget!
I agree, the 124G is great for travel - coming from the RB67 or C330, I barely notice it on my shoulder, but I am not the fastest at operating a TLR - I know it will come with practice, but I have a habit of wanting to focus with my right hand (which the Mamiyas allow), so sometimes I will be fumbling when I should be shooting!! I will always take my 124G with me on my travels, but it's nice to have a bit of variety, either for catching the moment, or even just the different point of view from using a normal VF vs WLF.

AndrewFlannigan said:
Long long ago in a galaxy quite close to this one I used a variety of these big RFs: Mamiya Press; Mamiya Super 23; Linhoff 220. They all shared one characteristic: they were HUGE. For a while I used a Fuji 645S which is small and very cute with an excellent lens but it turned out to be astonishingly fragile. Then there's the Seagull 203 which is a folding camera and would have been the best of the lot if it had been better made. I'm sticking to my ancient Hasselblad outfit for the rare occasions I want to shoot MF film.

:tumbleweed:
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I am often intrigued by the Mamiya Press cameras, but they do look like a handful! I have been leaning towards the GS645 out of the Fuji's I have looked at - what failures did you have? I have heard that the bellows are fragile unless replaced and also the shutter cable.


robhooley167 said:
I have a Fuji 690 mk1 and I've used it a fair bit for travelling, it's surprisingly light but you would need an external lightmeter.

I'm not sure I can agree with comments that it's like digital, but everyone has their preferences
Click to expand...

I was reading your thread from when you purchased it yesterday iirc, do you feel like it was a good purchase? I have seen what looks like quite a nice mk1 690 for just under £400 in the UK.....but I really should have a better look at the dimensions as it looked quite big sitting next to your RB67! I do use an external lightmeter, and with negative film tend to take one reading and work from there - but again, the in-built meter and slightly more compact GS645 could be the better choice for my scenario.

A GS645 could well be the one to compliment my 124G when travelling light - a bit more research is required I think! I'd love to take my RB67 abroad with me, but tbh, I'd rather have all of my kit with me in my hand luggage, and that would mean I'd only be taking my RB :LOL:
 
Hallsy said:
what failures did you have?
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The 645S has a big bumper bar around the lens. At first I thought it was decorative but I found out that the lens barrel is held on to the shutter assembly by 3 tiny screws which break away for a pass time. It's a stupid design mistake that ruins an otherwise excellent 645 rangefinder. :(
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
The 645S has a big bumper bar around the lens. At first I thought it was decorative but I found out that the lens barrel is held on to the shutter assembly by 3 tiny screws which break away for a pass time. It's a stupid design mistake that ruins an otherwise excellent 645 rangefinder. :(
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Ah - yes, I was thinking of the bellows (non S, 75mm) model. I remember seeing a broken 645S for £60 a while back and considered it as a repair project, but then thought better of it!!
 
If pocketability is more important than speed of operation how about one of the old folding rangefinder cameras? Something like the original Mamiya Six which has a fixed 80mm lens and bellows. They're quite cheap, small and capable of good results. Similar to yourself I keep getting tempted by a medium format rangefinder although I've yet to give in and buy one. I believe also that the Soviet Moskva 5 can be had cheaply with a full CLA from eBay and will shoot 6x9 or 6x6. Again they are quirky to handle but have the benefit of coupled rangefinder.
 
mdjchat said:
If pocketability is more important than speed of operation how about one of the old folding rangefinder cameras? Something like the original Mamiya Six which has a fixed 80mm lens and bellows. They're quite cheap, small and capable of good results. Similar to yourself I keep getting tempted by a medium format rangefinder although I've yet to give in and buy one. I believe also that the Soviet Moskva 5 can be had cheaply with a full CLA from eBay and will shoot 6x9 or 6x6. Again they are quirky to handle but have the benefit of coupled rangefinder.
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A coupled folder is also a consideration, it was quite nice being able to slip a 6x9 Kodak folder in my pocket .....I just don't much about them!! I've looked at a few before, but some of them seem almost as expensive as the Fuji RF's.
I didn't realise there was an older Mamiya Six - I will have a look (y)
 
I really liked my Bronny RF645, but soon realised I wasn't really a rangefinder person and moved it on. I also tried a Leica M3 and a Fuji GSW690 (aka Texas Leica) and found I was focusing by distance rather than the rangefinder mechanism, so moved them on as well. I still have a Kiev lVa to put me off the idea of rangefinders if or when I take the notion. :rolleyes:
 
Peter B said:
I still have a Kiev lVa to put me off the idea of rangefinders if or when I take the notion. :rolleyes:
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Oddly enough I quite like the Kiev IV though I wouldn't trust the meter. ;)
 
Peter B said:
I really liked my Bronny RF645, but soon realised I wasn't really a rangefinder person and moved it on. I also tried a Leica M3 and a Fuji GSW690 (aka Texas Leica) and found I was focusing by distance rather than the rangefinder mechanism, so moved them on as well. I still have a Kiev lVa to put me off the idea of rangefinders if or when I take the notion. :rolleyes:
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I often scale focus with an RF if I'm feeling lazy, or having to operate one handedly, but I'm not so good at scale focusing when wide open!!
 
Hallsy said:
I do enjoy the process of shooting MF TLR's and SLR's, using and observing the image on the WLF, the generally slower process of use, and I guess some of that process is taken away with a rangefinder.
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I find that rangefinders can be more difficult to use (in terms of composition and picture taking), as you don't see through any lenses (e.g., for framing or viewing depth of field). As such, I often find rangefinders slower to use in practice than TLRs or SLRs, especially for non-landscape shots. That said, this situation can be reversed if you're shooting at small apertures (I often like to shoot wide open...) or using pre-focusing, scale focusing, or hyperlocal focusing techniques, for instance.
 
Late addition, but I've been on holiday...:)
So I shoot a mamiya 6 usually but I was looking to lighten the load a bit with pas 645 and cut out the lens and accessory bulk.
Didn't fancy the true 645 pas fuji's so I got a GS645 wide60 RF.
Dunno what I was expecting, mebbe I thought it would be a 645 mamiya 6...
Anyway, it isn't, it so isn't that I've only managed 1 roll in at least a year
That doesn't make it a naff camera, it is significantly lighter, a bit smaller with a fixed sharp sharp lens, and not an awkward thing to shoot.
I think maybe the lightening the load thing was a slightly flawed concept in the MF RF category and up against a 6.
Image quality compares well but the Fuji feels like it came out of a cornflake packet in build and substance compared to the 6.
To go light, I just take the 6 and pick a lens, the Fuji stays in the bottom of the cupboard which is a shame really, its a capable camera and bonza for lightweight travel grabs, but it definitely isn't a 645 mamiya 6...:)
 
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Get a mamiya 6 or 7.theyre expensive but they're simply fantastic.

I had a Fuji gz645 and a mamiya 6. I died inside a little when I had to sell the 6. The Fuji was good, awesome lens. But the mamiya was just head and shoulders above it in usability.
 
joxby said:
Late addition, but I've been on holiday...:)
So I shoot a mamiya 6 usually but I was looking to lighten the load a bit with pas 645 and cut out the lens and accessory bulk.
Didn't fancy the true 645 pas fuji's so I got a GS645 wide60 RF.
Dunno what I was expecting, mebbe I thought it would be a 645 mamiya 6...
Anyway, it isn't, it so isn't that I've only managed 1 roll in at least a year
That doesn't make it a naff camera, it is significantly lighter, a bit smaller with a fixed sharp sharp lens, and not an awkward thing to shoot.
I think maybe the lightening the load thing was a slightly flawed concept in the MF RF category and up against a 6.
Image quality compares well but the Fuji feels like it came out of a cornflake packet in build and substance compared to the 6.
To go light, I just take the 6 and pick a lens, the Fuji stays in the bottom of the cupboard which is a shame really, its a capable camera and bonza for lightweight travel grabs, but it definitely isn't a 645 mamiya 6...:)
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Haha!! Having never used either camera, I'm not in a position to comment, but I feel I can see where you're coming from - the GS645 doesn't quite give the impression it is hewn from stone!!

Still, I try to be careful with my cameras - even my well used ones!!

I'm still tempted to try a GS645(s), if only for lighter travel in hot places (where I don't want to lug a bag of kit) - but I will probably stick with my 124G and XA for now.

I did have a bid on a GS645S the other night, but it went for a bit more than I thought it would :(
 
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