Car buyers should have 'long, hard think' about diesel

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You're assuming electric is always going to be the best decision based on requirement. As usual.

Nope I am not as I have stating mannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnny times.

I am just not supporting public money being given to people who have proven in the past to have been poor judgment.
 
The torque steer in your leaf is down to a combination of poor chassis, suspension and narrow tyres, not that it is fwd. A fwd car needs to have an engine or motor producing over 250bhp to have torque steer.
All modern ICE vehicles with TC, should be able to respond within milliseconds. The system in my car monitors various sensors 100's of times a second and reacts accordingly. Even the slightest amount of front wheel slip or torque steer and 70% of the drive is immediately sent to the rear wheels and if the need should arrive, up to 100% of that drive going to the rear wheels can be sent to either rear wheel to keep traction meaning no loss of drive and being able to continue accelerating in a controlled manner even round bends and in the wet.
Torque steer has nothing to do with torque? Leaf motor produces 320Nm of torque from stand still, a lot more than similar powered ICE, which are in 200Nm range when at optimum RPM.

Mechanically, how does the TC in your car work? I can't imagine an ICE modulating its power to a fine degree in milliseconds. Fastest mechanical clutch will also need milliseconds to engage or disengage, can it achieve sub-millisecond control?

I know some electric motors allows angular control by energising different part of the motor. The input signal can be in nanoseconds, it will depend on power control electronics, hence I only said within a millisecond.
 
Personally I wouldn't mind going down a more environmentally friendly route.

But it just doesn't cut it for me right now.

The range/haulage capacity isn't there, the charging infrastructure isn't there, batteries are still massive environmental issues in their own right, our electricity generation is not particularly clean etc etc
Which is why car manufacturers are producing various types of hybrid rather than low mileage Ev's which are likely to become obsolete a lot sooner.
 
No vehicles should be getting grants at all EV or hybrid, people should be digging into there own wallets.
That way they might make better decisions.
You mean like you did by buying another ICE powered car.
 
You mean like you did by buying another ICE powered car.

yep that's right and going round in cycles with this I bought an ICE car isn't really making your case any better.
I chose a low emission small economical petrol, doing my bit for the environment which is a lot better than you are.

no one should be subsidised for a BRAND NEW car which is a luxury
 
Torque steer has nothing to do with torque? Leaf motor produces 320Nm of torque from stand still, a lot more than similar powered ICE, which are in 200Nm range when at optimum RPM.

Mechanically, how does the TC in your car work? I can't imagine an ICE modulating its power to a fine degree in milliseconds. Fastest mechanical clutch will also need milliseconds to engage or disengage, can it achieve sub-millisecond control?

I know some electric motors allows angular control by energising different part of the motor. The input signal can be in nanoseconds, it will depend on power control electronics, hence I only said within a millisecond.

https://www.automobilemag.com/news/2016-ford-focus-rs-gets-the-worlds-most-advanced-awd-system/
 
Well, you will be pleased to hear that they have just completed the 3 year autonomous vehicle and pod tests right here.
All they have to do now is collate the data and convince people they are (both) safe.... That was their words not mine..
It seems they are to be allowed to use the foot paths ( the pods) at a speed of 6mph.


As above, they are the ones heavily involved in the testing
Jaguar Land Rover has demonstrated how self-driving cars can help cut traffic in Milton Keynes,


Amazon were testing their autonomous delivery pods as well there. Something about the easy road layout makes Milton Keynes perfect
 
A fwd car needs to have an engine or motor producing over 250bhp to have torque steer.

Hum. Is that when it's starts to become a noticeably problem rather than when it starts.
There's a number of factors that dictate how much of an issue it is. Skinny tyres offering low rolling road resistance is one factor
 
yep that's right and going round in cycles with this I bought an ICE car isn't really making your case any better.
I chose a low emission small economical petrol, doing my bit for the environment which is a lot better than you are.

no one should be subsidised for a BRAND NEW car which is a luxury
My car is surprisingly low in the emissions stakes, as I have said before, the speeds you have admitted to drive at, your emissions and those of the poor sods having to sit behind you, will still be unnecessarily higher than they should be. It doesn't matter how low you think your cars emissions are, you still had the opportunity to buy an EV and have zero emissions. So you are actually doing less for the environment than me.
 
Hum. Is that when it's starts to become a noticeably problem rather than when it starts.
There's a number of factors that dictate how much of an issue it is. Skinny tyres offering low rolling road resistance is one factor

I think it is something to do with the steering geometry moving as the car start to move. Skinny tyres certainly won't help. But 250bhp is certainly the point where it becomes most noticeable, hence why companies develop trick suspension systems like Ford's Revoknuckle system on the mk2 Focus RS allowing higher nip through the front wheels.
 
Something about the easy road layout makes Milton Keynes perfect
(As you may know)The main roads are a grid system with largely straight roads and a roundabout at each intersection.
In CMK itself there are traffic lights at each intersection.
So yes its "easy" for a computer to "read"

Amazon were testing their autonomous delivery pods as well there
"We" have those too, but actually these pods carry people, it seems that an autonomous taxi takes you as close as possible to your destination,
and then you transfer to a pod, to get you to the doorstep. via the pedestrian walkways!
 
(As you may know)The main roads are a grid system with largely straight roads and a roundabout at each intersection.
In CMK itself there are traffic lights at each intersection.
So yes its "easy" for a computer to "read"

Or the developers are used to the US scheme of horizontal and vertical roads, which MK uses, so it's easier for the robots...
 
Oh that's all I need, limited range and can only drive round MK :)
 
The torque steer in your leaf is down to a combination of poor chassis, suspension and narrow tyres, not that it is fwd. A fwd car needs to have an engine or motor producing over 250bhp to have torque steer.
All modern ICE vehicles with TC, should be able to respond within milliseconds. The system in my car monitors various sensors 100's of times a second and reacts accordingly. Even the slightest amount of front wheel slip or torque steer and 70% of the drive is immediately sent to the rear wheels and if the need should arrive, up to 100% of that drive going to the rear wheels can be sent to either rear wheel to keep traction meaning no loss of drive and being able to continue accelerating in a controlled manner even round bends and in the wet.


My Alfa has 197bhp and 347ftlbs of torque and you can certainly feel a bit of torque steer at times. The secret is driving properly and not using all the performance in the wrong places. I should really have a Q2 diff fitted to tame it all a bit.

http://www.dieselcar.com/reviews/alfa-romeo-gt-1-9-jtd-16v-multijet-dc-193/
 
no one should be subsidised for a BRAND NEW car which is a luxury
That's really just a personal opinion though. Not saying it's wrong, just an opinion.
For the Government trying to hit emissions targets providing incentives to early adopters makes perfect sense. Look at solar panels and small scale windmills, the very attractive subsidies available to them now are being discontinued as the market has effectively established itself. I'd expect to see the same thing happen with vehicles eventually.
 
(As you may know)The main roads are a grid system with largely straight roads and a roundabout at each intersection.
In CMK itself there are traffic lights at each intersection.
So yes its "easy" for a computer to "read"


"We" have those too, but actually these pods carry people, it seems that an autonomous taxi takes you as close as possible to your destination,
and then you transfer to a pod, to get you to the doorstep. via the pedestrian walkways!
Ford are testing a system in MK that if successful will do away with the need for traffic lights and keep vehicles moving, it will reduce emissions and increase fuel economy too.
https://www.at.ford.com/en/homepage...-imagines-a-future-where-stopping-at-jun.html
 
Ford are testing a system in MK that if successful will do away with the need for traffic lights and keep vehicles moving, it will reduce emissions and increase fuel economy too.
https://www.at.ford.com/en/homepage...-imagines-a-future-where-stopping-at-jun.html
Its a nice idea, but how far in the future before it becomes a reality?
TBH they never learn around here, over the years, the amount of roundabouts that have been replaced by traffic lights is ridiculous.
Slowly they realised that wasn't a good idea, so put the roundabouts back, with traffic lights, when the lights fail, the traffic moves much better!
WTF are these people on?
 
I'm sure the SAAB Viggen electronically restricted power in first gear to address torque steer and also protect the suspension?
 
I'm sure the SAAB Viggen electronically restricted power in first gear to address torque steer and also protect the suspension?
I thought the SAAB Viggen was a plane?

edit ah OK its both :D
 
I'm sure the SAAB Viggen electronically restricted power in first gear to address torque steer and also protect the suspension?
Torque is usually restricted to protect dual mass flywheels, clutches, and gearboxes.
 
I think there's also something similar with the VW Touareg, it has so much torque that it has to be gradual rather than instant (for want of better words) otherwise something in the chassis, suspension or drivetrain would snap!
 
Torque is usually restricted to protect dual mass flywheels, clutches, and gearboxes.

It was bugging me so I looked it up and found this quote:
To enable the front tires to cope with the amount of torque available, maximum torque is electronically limited in first gear to 184 lb.-ft. and in second gear to 243 lb.-ft.
and it's limited even more so in the convertible to minimise body flex I believe. But I agree it will have also been to protect the transmission.
 
Posted without realising Im about 10 pages behind :(
Please ignore
 
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I have just bought a new to me SUV and it was a tough choice, we looked at the Outlander PHEV which was perfect for our needs, can do long trips economical and carry our vast amount of camping gear, but then came the price tag, its not so economical when you factor the monthly payment on top of the running costs, tax, insurance, fuel, recharging and the finance payment took the monthly price to nearly £800 so I looked at the XC90 which is another diesel but still does everything I want apart from being part electric driven and the cost in total is £400 per month so I had no choice but to stick with Volvo, seriously, unless the prices are drastically reduced or heavily subsidised, then the average working man will never be able to buy into the HY-BRID technology that every do gooder wants us to buy into, I tried to get into one but the cost was just too high.
 
Just for info personally, I had mentioned that I might be able to get my wife to buy an EV for her next car so I pointed out a Nissan Leaf to her while out this morning, her verdict, no chance, its ugly!
She does like her cars to be a bit quirky with a bit of character though.
 
Just for info personally, I had mentioned that I might be able to get my wife to buy an EV for her next car so I pointed out a Nissan Leaf to her while out this morning, her verdict, no chance, its ugly!
She does like her cars to be a bit quirky with a bit of character though.

Original Nissan Leaf has all the beauty of a dropped lasagne. I don't think anyone thinks it is good looking.

Zoe is far prettier to look at on the outside.

The Kia Soul is also very marmite. Good EV though and interior is excellent on it. 7 year warranty is the best of any of them.
 
Yeah, unfortunately my wife puts the 'look' of the car quite high on her priority list, it could be the best car ever made but if she doesn't instantly like the look of it then that's it.
 
Simple to answer, in your purely hypothetical scenario:
What are existing car parks going to be used for? Without car ownership, why the need to know which cab is theirs? what is stopping the first person from jumping into the nearest cab? Without car ownership, ride sharing can also work much better, there is no longer a single person being responsible for return trip. Thus won't be 100 cars waiting.


With all due respect you should try life in North Korea or Venezuella. No private property to worry about. Why in fact not just go to any sleeping pod after a a work day in your local goolag because home ownership is so inefficient and wasteful. When you own nothing you will soon understand what it is like to live of governments or worse big corp handouts.
 
No vehicles should be getting grants at all EV or hybrid, people should be digging into there own wallets.
That way they might make better decisions.

I will agree with you on that point. There should be no one sided deals where every taxpayer basically pay for ultra wealthy Tesla owners to buy their luxury vehicles while the poor get poorer.

Likewise if Tesla and Nissan can't build a better and / or more affordable cars to make it more attractive that is none of the government's business to intervene in the finance.
 
Yeah, unfortunately my wife puts the 'look' of the car quite high on her priority list, it could be the best car ever made but if she doesn't instantly like the look of it then that's it.

I'm possibly looking at the Hyundai Ioniq as my next car (although fir me, it'll be the hybrid version), it's certainly the best looking electric I've seen.
 
I love my 380BHP & 700ftlbs torque tractor. Would I swap it for Electric/Hybrid certainly not.
 
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I love my 380BHP & 700ftlbs torque tractor. Would I swap it for Electric/Hybrid certainly not.
That's something else to be considered!
I'm guessing its back to the Clydesdale for you may lad.
You can plough plough and fertilise at the same time, it doesn't come much greener than that :D
 
If we all went back to horses as personal transport, we'd be knee deep in horse poop by lunchtime every day!
 
If we all went back to horses as personal transport, we'd be knee deep in horse poop by lunchtime every day!
But its good for the roses and for the economy, just think of all the pooper-scoopers we'd need to employ (y)
 
But its good for the roses and for the economy, just think of all the pooper-scoopers we'd need to employ (y)
That just conjured up the image of old Steptoe scooping up after the horse with his hands, jumping back onto the cart and eating a sandwich. :)
 
I spent last weekend having a long hard think about diesel, my mate drove for this years Rally GB, 3 blokes, luggage waterproofs and camera gear, very comfy, all the toys you could want, reasonably priced attractive S/H vehicle for 60+mpg.

I’ve been browsing Autotrader ever since.
 
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